Logic or Lunatic - Fairness or Un-reasonable - Right or Wrong -Defend or Lay Down and

[ContraMundum]

Christianity is anti-semitic, at least by your measure. If you have a problem with that, take it up with Jesus Christ.

I don't think Christianity is anti-semitic, just some Christians.

And, stop distorting what I or Jesus have said.

Just showing you the conclusions of your own logic.

All who reject Jesus go to Hell, including what you call Jews. To Jesus, a real Jew is someone who accepts Jesus. No one has said, as you claim "all jews" are condemned.

How does this comment support your tirade against Israel and your allegiance to Islamic extremists?

 

[gwynedd1]

If you support or apologise for Hezbollah (or "understand them&quot in any way, shape, or form, you are actually being played.

You really should read this book by Dr Walid Phares- http://www.futurejihad.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

Resist Hezbollah, Hamas and Al Qaeda!

I am sorry, but those organizations are quite typical of controlled opposition movements. All those oranizations are evil, however I believe they are funded and penetrated by Zionists themselves. This is a very old thing. This is a link on the Young Turks http://www.red-ice.net/specialreports/armeniangenocide.html I am part Croat and this was done in Croatia as well. http://www.pavelicpapers.com/documents/jasenovac/ja0009.html What most people fail to grasp is how the Jewish colony failed in Palestine after WWI The problems were Arab hostility to a Jewish state and the lack of Jews interest in the new state. Jews were not going to Israel. What make them go? Anti-semitism. What makes this possible is how the wealth of the world is concentrated in the hands of a few having its beginning from the Rothschild banking dynasty. They are Occultic and Kabbalistic in nature as is the six pointed star on their coat of arms and the flag of Israel, which they founded. http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/slavery.htm If one does not understand the nature of how money has controlled the nations for 100s of years one will fail to grasp it. Israel is Satan's imitation before the true Zion under Christ.

 

[ContraMundum]

I am sorry, but those organizations are quite typical of controlled opposition movements. All those oranizations are evil, however I believe they are funded and penetrated by Zionists themselves. This is a very old thing. This is a link on the Young Turks http://www.red-ice.net/specialreports/armeniangenocide.html I am part Croat and this was done in Croatia as well. http://www.pavelicpapers.com/documents/jasenovac/ja0009.html What most people fail to grasp is how the Jewish colony failed in Palestine after WWI The problems were Arab hostility to a Jewish state and the lack of Jews interest in the new state. Jews were not going to Israel. What make them go? Anti-semitism. What makes this possible is how the wealth of the world is concentrated in the hands of a few having its beginning from the Rothschild banking dynasty. They are Occultic and Kabbalistic in nature as is the six pointed star on their coat of arms and the flag of Israel, which they founded. http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/slavery.htm If one does not understand the nature of how money has controlled the nations for 100s of years one will fail to grasp it. Israel is Satan's imitation before the true Zion under Christ.

You do realise that conspiracy theories are yet to be proven, and that a good scholar only uses established facts to come to the knowledge of truth.

I suppose the mythical hoax "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" was/is a favorite of yours?

 

[Turquoise]

Logic or Lunatic - Fairness or Un-reasonable - Right or Wrong -Defend or Lay Down and Die

Illustration:

I am the enemy. I take my gun and shoot at your house. No Cops to come, not one to stop me. I shoot over and over again at your house. You and your family are in the house.

You have weapons you can fight with. You are a Christian. What do you do. I hate you. I am going to kill you, murder you because hate is murder, killing in self-defense is not murder.

I don't care what you think, I am out to eliminate you from the face of the earth. I want what you have, I what the land you live on, I don't want you to have it or anyone that is related to you or like you who defends you to have it. I will murder them too given the chance.

Now you are the one in the house what are you going to do.

Can you answer this illustration:

Will you fight?

Will you try to negotiate?

Will you lay down and die and just let me murder you?


Understand I will not negotiate with you my goal its to remove you and all who think like you off the face of the earth.

What will you do?

Well then! go ahead and shoot me, after reading the way this thread has gone I would like to leave earth and go and be with a "wiser" person, Jesus.

 

[gwynedd1]

You do realise that conspiracy theories are yet to be proven, and that a good scholar only uses established facts to come to the knowledge of truth.

I suppose the mythical hoax "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" was/is a favorite of yours?

There is no need to speculate on the results which match the "theory". I have historical references to Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, JFK and Even the puppet Woodrow Wilson on his deathbed said as much. Real "wackos" these presidents. I have also posted known "false flag" scams from Israel such as the USS Liberty which, people such as you, ignore. So lets look at my "theory" and take note that Rothschilds grew their fortune from financing war as a good deal of our presidents so stated. Then we have two wars which so happen to create the state of Israel, and is founded by this same banking dynasty. Your's sir, is the outlandish "theory" and as this same dynasty has put their vast resources into media and publishing you understand the difficulty in this area. If this is not how it works then tell me please why such financiers awarded medals for these deeds by heads of state? Now, all of this used to be well known until the 30's, that is until our free press began to disappear. What a strange quirk it is that our media conglomerates are vastly owned by those sympathetic to Zionism. Do you believe the Federal reserve is run at random and anyday now we will find a face "like America" running it? It is just a fluke that the Federal Reserve Chairman is always "Jewish"? Your theory?

 

[IisJustMe]

There is no need to speculate on the results which match the "theory". I have historical references to Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, JFK and Even the puppet Woodrow Wilson on his deathbed said as much. Real "wackos" these presidents. I have also posted known "false flag" scams from Israel such as the USS Liberty which, people such as you, ignore. So lets look at my "theory" and take note that Rothschilds grew their fortune from financing war as a good deal of our presidents so stated. Then we have two wars which so happen to create the state of Israel, and is founded by this same banking dynasty. Your's sir, is the outlandish "theory" and as this same dynasty has put their vast resources into media and publishing you understand the difficulty in this area. If this is not how it works then tell me please why such financiers awarded medals for these deeds by heads of state? Now, all of this used to be well known until the 30's, that is until our free press began to disappear. What a strange quirk it is that our media conglomerates are vastly owned by those sympathetic to Zionism. Do you believe the Federal reserve is run at random and anyday now we will find a face "like America" running it? It is just a fluke that the Federal Reserve Chairman is always "Jewish"? Your theory?

And reported to CF as such. There is no room for your hatred on this forum.

 

[gwynedd1]

And reported to CF as such. There is no room for your hatred on this forum.

I see a good deal of Anti-semitism on this board, mostly directed at arabs. I am quite specific about political Zionsim and the state of Israel being the issue. Zionism is a racist belief and if you support it, you are the racist. Please explain how a state such as Israel will allow you to become a citizen if your mother was Jewish and that this is not racist? If it were a belief then a converted Jew would be wecome.

 

[gwynedd1]

And reported to CF as such. There is no room for your hatred on this forum.

Do you dispute the existance of the Rothschild dynasty?

 

[IisJustMe]

Do you dispute the existance of the Rothschild dynasty?

... absolutely. Your ill-disguised hatred of Israel and the Jewish people leads you to swallow hook, line and sinker the Nazi-influenced nonsense contained in this false 'history.' The only commonality between far right wingnuts and far left wingnuts is a gullible belief in this garbage.

 

[gwynedd1]

... absolutely. Your ill-disguised hatred of Israel and the Jewish people leads you to swallow hook, line and sinker the Nazi-influenced nonsense contained in this false 'history.' The only commonality between far right wingnuts and far left wingnuts is a gullible belief in this garbage.

Please explain the following: Foreign Office November 2nd, 1917 Dear Lord Rothschild, I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet. "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country." I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation. Yours sincerely, Arthur James Balfour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration,_1917

 

[Tishri1]

palliwood

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...el%3Apalliwood

an 18 minute video showcasing the big talent in the middle east film industry

thanks to all who sent me PM's about this link

Yes it is good, isnt it!

 

[gwynedd1]

KURTZ: All right, Matthew Chance, stand by, thank you for that report. We will come back to you. And joining us now here Washington Anne Compton who covers the White House for ABC News, and Thomas Ricks, Pentagon reporter for "The Washington Post" and author of the new book "Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq." Tom Ricks, you've covered a number of military conflicts, including Iraq, as I just mentioned. Is civilian casualties increasingly going to be a major media issue? In conflicts where you don't have two standing armies shooting at each other? THOMAS RICKS, REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": I think it will be. But I think civilian casualties are also part of the battlefield play for both sides here. One of the things that is going on, according to some U.S. military analysts, is that Israel purposely has left pockets of Hezbollah rockets in Lebanon, because as long as they're being rocketed, they can continue to have a sort of moral equivalency in their operations in Lebanon. KURTZ: Hold on, you're suggesting that Israel has deliberately allowed Hezbollah to retain some of it's fire power, essentially for PR purposes, because having Israeli civilians killed helps them in the public relations war here? RICKS: Yes, that's what military analysts have told me.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/06/rs.01.html

 

[IisJustMe]

Please explain the following: Foreign Office November 2nd, 1917 Dear Lord Rothschild, I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet. "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country." I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation. Yours sincerely, Arthur James Balfour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration,_1917

Only a conspiracy nut who seeks dark evil things in perfectly harmless ones would see it as anything else. So how do you see it?

 

[gwynedd1]

Only a conspiracy nut who seeks dark evil things in perfectly harmless ones would see it as anything else. So how do you see it?

What was the arrangement? Do you know the context? What kind of help do you think the desperate allies were hoping? Do you know why Britain was appoached? Did you know much of world Jewery then not already engaged in WWI was in the United States? Can you address the importance of finance in war? Is it important? What would you say about its importance after knowing this?

http://concise.britannica.com/ebc/article-9377921/Jacob-H.-Schiff


You don't discuss the issues. You simpy say anti-semite and you are done. I was a Zionist for 25 years and I never did that.


Do you want me to dig into the evidence so you can flippently discard it or do you really want to discuss something with a fellow Christian?
Do you think calling someone a "nut" is Godly and mature?

 

[gwynedd1]

thanks to all who sent me PM's about this link

Yes it is good, isnt it!

There is lots of Palestinain propaganda. There is no dispute. They are just not very good at it.


Now the mortal wounds of these victims and dead little girls in the car are real.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8785876923462708738&q="zionist+war+crimes"

The dead civilians in Labanon are also real.

This is a war of deception. The Israeli's know it. The Palestinians know it. I know it. Now you know it but perhaps are only open to the Palestinian side. Now I can't blame people for not taking good close ups in a war zone.

 

[IisJustMe]

You don't discuss the issues.

You have no issue to discuss. You are looking under rocks and down hidey-holes for an issue that doesn't exist. There is nothing to discuss. That's what conspiracy theories are, substance made from wisps and vapors that no one can quite grasp. You've made it up in your head and expect people to believe you. I will pray for you, wish you well, and urge you, if you are actually a fellow Christian, to put aside the hate and stop looking for absurd excuses to villify Israel.

 

[gwynedd1]

You have no issue to discuss. You are looking under rocks and down hidey-holes for an issue that doesn't exist. There is nothing to discuss. That's what conspiracy theories are, substance made from wisps and vapors that no one can quite grasp. You've made it up in your head and expect people to believe you. I will pray for you, wish you well, and urge you, if you are actually a fellow Christian, to put aside the hate and stop looking for absurd excuses to villify Israel.

Once again you avoid discussing the issues. There is no theory to the context of WWI , The London Times that published the Balfour Declaration or that the United States entered the war shortly after. There is absolutely no substance to your posts. Anybody can just arrogantly dismiss another. I have not insulted a single person in this forum, not one personal attack while I endure it. Where do you see God in that behavior? You villify me with casual contempt and patronize with "a prayer for a poor soul". If you were honest you would pray in private. Do not use the power of prayer as pretense.

Matt 23

5: But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

 

[Tishri1]

thanks to all who sent me PM's about this link

Yes it is good, isnt it!

more educating links
http://www.conceptwizard.com/conen/conflict_2.html
http://www.conceptwizard.com/nutoo/nutshell3.html

 

[Diven]

Firstly may I ask that you read my later posts (#59 and #65) where I relaxed my position. You had already replied to this post I believe but not in the point by point fashion.

To my knowledge, there are no lesser nor greater terrorists. Terrorism is terrorism is terrorism, period.

I meant lumping together terrorist groups/organizations, you may feel all the muslim organizations are in kahouts and have the same motives and objectives. Personally I don't believe Hezbollah or Hamas have an agenda for attacking the US (at least outside of the middle east). You also at one point you blamed Hezbollah for a Hamas incident, though perhaps this was just a mistake. Though you may feel it reasonable to lump them all together I don't think it's unreasonable that you keep them seperate. Clearly groups like the IRA and ETA have different agenda's then Hamas, Hezbollah and Al Quaeda. So not all terrorist groups are alike clearly.

That'a great rationalization. Too bad it fails to stand up to even casual scrutiny. Hezbollah is the reason Israel was in south Lebanon in the first place. The terrorists had no organization until they labled themselves 'The Party of God' and collectively held up that banner. All that changed was they now had a name, which they thought (and which 'useful idiots' in the west have confirmed for them) would give them an identity. But they're still just terrorists.

I will look deeper into things, I pulled my information from wikipedia article about Hezbollah. My purpose was to disociate groups of terrorist not to claim them not to be terrorist.

But the credit for that withdrawal belongs to Israel's respect for international law, in that they were the only country in the region to comply with UN Resolution 1559, which demanded all foreign troops leave Lebanon by the end of 2000. No other nation complied, and Hezbollah was expected to disarm under 1559, but obviously did not.

I mearly stating hatred doesn't dissapear overnight.

I suggest you research this a bit further, and this time include the biblical passages on Jacob and Esau, Isaac and Ishmael, etc. The hatred goes back to Old Testament times and the so-called 'meddling' of the west is just a tired excuse to extend their hatred further outward of the Mideast.

I'm aware of Jacob and Esau, Isaac and Ishmael. I don't deny hatred and mistrust have blown little things out of proportions.

No, the way I view them is through reality. You seem to be among the spinmeisters here who ignore or deny context and history.

I was making an appeal to human fallibility, nothing that can't be claimed against myself also. I'm concerned if you don't feel you are not capable of mis-interpreting evidence, or that you haven't ever accepted someones word on the matter.

Then why don't you present some 'facts' supporting your rhetoric instead of repeatedly citing your viewpoint as though having said it several times constitutes proof? And please explain how US provision of humanitarian and financial aid to the Arab countries makes us deserving of 'attack'? When you examine the facts and history of the region, neither the US nor Israel have done anything to provoke the attacks. This is another example of an oft-repeated 'fact' that is nothing more than lies and spin, the purveyors of the lie meaning the repetition to constitute its 'truth.'

You are right I should present more facts if I want to make claims. I will admit being a bit lazy. To tell you the truth I feel a bit intimated, I feel that if I put research into things it may be in vain, that it will simply be disregarded immediately as spin and propaganda.

So, in one breath you 'condemn' it, and in the next you excuse it. And you wonder why people think you don't grasp the situation?

There is a difference between presenting motive and excusing evil.

And that last sentence appears to be a rationalization for Hitler's annihilation of six million Jews. I'm beginning to see the pattern to your own 'distaste' for Israel here, and I don't care for it.

Again presenting motive is different than excusing evil. You are basically claiming I have a distates for Jews on the level of Hitler here. This couldn't be further from the truth. I merely believe Israel is responding inappropriately. I'm claiming Israel isn't as white as snow, not saying they are black as night.

And you honestly think an international peacekeeping force will be successful where Israel has not?

Honestly probably not actually, at least not short term. Hezbollah and Lebannon would trust an external entity very little if anymore than they trust Israel. I also likely believe the best we can expect is an uneazy peace treaty, to at worst WWIII and a nuke going off in Israel, or elsewhere in the middle east. But I hope someone can stand up to avoid such things, likely there won't be peace in that region until Christ returns though.

You really do live in a little world all your own, don't you?

IisJustMe I'm getting a little tired of your personal insults. I don't mean just against me. Please address your comments towards the issues away from the writters of the issues. I know in our attempts to argue we can fall into the trap and try to riddicule others to help strenghthen our case, I probably am guilty with my mini-WMD comments, but lets try to keep this civil.

I do too, but I don't recall anywhere in the Bible that Jesus required us to let ourselves be killed when the gospel was met with hostility.

Addressed in post #65

This is the story of Elizabeth Elliot, whose husband Jim, along with missionary bush pilot Nate Saint and three other missionaries were killed by the Alca Indians in Ecuador in 1954. Its the story told in the recent movie "End of the Spear." But the key to the Alca's salvation is that they laid down their arms. It is highly unlikely that Hezbollah will do that, because they are fanatics to a false religion they absolutely believe to be true. Also there is considerable evidence that the Alcas were under the conviction of the 'law in their hearts' as Paul writes of in Romans 2:16ff.

Thanks for this info. This is an earnest question not an attack. Did the tribe disarm prior to Elizibeth Elliots arrival or after. It clearly happened after the law in their hearts began to convict them. But this was an example of a person's death having an impact later, not meant to parallel the Israel Lebanon situation. We should pray that the conviction of the law come upon those involved in terrorism though.

No, it was not until Paul had a direct encounter with Jesus Christ on the Damascus Road that Paul even gave consideration to Stephen's sacrifice. It always requires the intervention of Christ, through the Holy Spirit, to make the change in a man's heart. Words from men won't do anything except plant the seed of truth in someone's heart. The Holy Spirit is Who makes it grow.

Wasn't saying Stephen's death converted Paul, but saying that it had an impact on him. Paul accepting himself as the worst of sinners was because of his persecution of the church before his conversion. Paul wouldn't be the man he became, if God hadn't let him commit the evil he did so that he could experience the fullness of his grace.

I believe there is misunderstand of what my attepts to do here. I want to present motivation of terrorist not make excuses for it. The only solution is for the motivation for terrorism to be killed. Killing terrorist, especially when civillians are caught in the mix leads to more hate. We most certainly can not give into the terrorist agenda. Or they will take advantage of it.

Think of it like this. Hitler can't rightfully blame the economic situation as an excuse for the evil he did. But if there was the opportunity to eliminate the situation to either stop hitler from developing the hatred for jews or prevent a person like him from coming into power to spare six million jews would you not want to take it. This doesn't excuse Hitler of any of the responsibility.

 

[ContraMundum]

I see a good deal of Anti-semitism on this board, mostly directed at arabs. I am quite specific about political Zionsim and the state of Israel being the issue. Zionism is a racist belief and if you support it, you are the racist. Please explain how a state such as Israel will allow you to become a citizen if your mother was Jewish and that this is not racist? If it were a belief then a converted Jew would be wecome.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Converted Jews can and do become citizens of Israel. Likewise, Jews of many racial backgrounds inhabit Israel and have the right of return, including European, African and Asian. Not only that, Jews of many belief backgrounds inhabit Israel too- not just observant ones. Even anti-Zionist Jews can live in Israel. This is what Jews from all walks and regions really look like- http://www.zionozeri.com/main.html - hardly a racial hegemony.

You really need to heed the words of this little Wiki article says of the "Protocols... of Zion" : "Numerous independent investigations have repeatedly proven it to be a hoax; most notably, a series of articles printed in The Times of London in 1921 revealed that much of the material in the Protocols was plagiarized from earlier political satire that did not have an anti-Semitic theme."

Read the whole thing and get a decent education on the matter- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion