Local Flood

[nvxplorer]

I have and refuse to be drawn on endless ramblings

I'll take that as a no.

 

[L'Anatra]

I have and refuse to be drawn on endless ramblings

In other words you have no explanation and the catastrophic global flood model is not sufficient to explain reality?

 

[notto]

Quite frankly I am beginning to suspect two things of you concerning your questioning
Your intelligence
Your motives

My motives are to show the lurkers the adhoc nature of creationism and their vague explanations that fall short when addressing real evidence. My intelligence shows me that the flood model can't directly address evidence such as the burrows, tree roots, egg nests, foot prints, and mature soils that we find at almost every level of the geologic column.

Assuming you are not playing games and for the benefit of lurkers anyway could you get your mind around the fact that the Flood didn't happen overnight.
What you are looking at (the 120 feet of sediment) could have been laid down over a period even up to a year . Now in that scenario wouldnt the "surface" continually be rising and dont the burrow s indicate this.
Now perhaps the side burrows are an indication of the frantic nature an animal might have been in and did something different . It seem like you expect me to have a lot more answers than it is possible to give from just looking at a drawn diagram. But I do appreciate you asking just in case I might be able to add a bit of common sense to the "mystery" which quite frankly appears to be abundantly void.

I thought that the burrows were escape tunnels after the beavers were trapped due to being buried in a cataclysmic flood? Was that just an adhoc explanation or did you have evidence to support it?

The burrows have a rather simple explantion by mainstream geology that doesn't involve them being covered by mud and escaping while leaving complex and detailed burrows during a cataclysmic flood.

The burrows represent many years of activity of beavers living their lives out next to an area that seasonaly floods (like many bodies of water do). Each year sediment would wash some of their burrows out and they would have to redig them, often on top of their old ones.

This same scenario played out with dinosaurs laying their eggs next to a river with seasonal flooding, leaving 15 feet of egg nests stacked on top of one another for us to find.

Suggesting that either of these happened in a year doesn't fit the evidence we find. Mainstream geology addresses this evidence directly, and can explain the sediment (and the trace fossils in it) that are above and below finds like this. Flood explanations cannot (and often fail to address the sediment above and below it).

Are the sediments below these burrows preflood? Are the sediments above these burrows post flood? Never answered.

 

[Jet Black]

This same scenario played out with dinosaurs laying their eggs next to a river with seasonal flooding, leaving 15 feet of egg nests stacked on top of one another for us to find.

I missed those nests, where are they? This is I suppose the disadvantage of my instinctive ignoring of any thread where A4C or dad is a contributor. I miss some of the excellent counterevidence against their inane ravings.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

I missed those nests, where are they? This is I suppose the disadvantage of my instinctive ignoring of any thread where A4C or dad is a contributor. I miss some of the excellent counterevidence against their inane ravings.

Do you ever get in trouble for these flamings?

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Cartoon does make a good point about the rainbow promise...

http://answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/Overheads/images/oh20030829_191.jpg

 

[Jet Black]

Do you ever get in trouble for these flamings?

I'm just describing their posts.

 

[notto]

I missed those nests, where are they? This is I suppose the disadvantage of my instinctive ignoring of any thread where A4C or dad is a contributor. I miss some of the excellent counterevidence against their inane ravings.

They were in a different thread that was a repeat of a thread from about 6 months ago. Both of them were threads where after the evidence was avoided and a few adhoc explanations were thrown out, the big stick of creationism was brought out and the faith of Christians who accept evolution and an old earth was brought into question.

It is an interesting find. One that a flood scenario can't explain.
http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/expeditions/dinosaur/patagonia/hands.html

 

[Jet Black]

They were in a different thread that was a repeat of a thread from about 6 months ago. Both of them were threads where after the evidence was avoided and a few adhoc explanations were thrown out, the big stick of creationism was brought out and the faith of Christians who accept evolution and an old earth was brought into question.

It is an interesting find. One that a flood scenario can't explain.
http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/expeditions/dinosaur/patagonia/hands.html

excellent stuff, thankyou.

 

[notto]

Cartoon does make a good point about the rainbow promise...

http://answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/Overheads/images/oh20030829_191.jpg

Cartoons often do make good points.

http://www.catalaw.com/dov/graphics/g-farsid.gif

 

[Elduran]

I have and refuse to be drawn on endless ramblings

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a COP OUT!!!!!!

 

[Floodnut]

I've read the whole Bible, it didn't convince me that Yahweh, Jesus, Baal, or Satan exist. So I am willing to be you reading scientific literature wouldn't change your mind... so have you attempted to read such books about Evolution?

You read the Bible and it didn't convince you. I read the Astronomical Creation, the heavens, through telescopes and space probes. I read the the microscopic world in a drop of water, in a single cell. I read the mathematical creation seen in the amazing relationships between numbers and figures. I read the creation in the wonder of a human being, his thoughts, his ability to see and feel and and hear and smell and taste. I am convinced that there is a supreme God over all. I read the Bible and I AM convinced that the Supreme God over the Heavens is Yahweh, in the person of Jesus Christ. I have met him. I have also met the Devil.
I have read and studied Evolutionary doctrine and faith. I am not willing to contiue reading that unbelief, when I can behold the heavens, the work of God's hand.

 

[Floodnut]

I thought the Flood lasted forty days?

Many Christians assume this, and of course evolutionists who love straw men assume forty days also. Actually it was over a year, with residual effects continuing for several generations after the Flood year.

 

[Floodnut]

Someone asked: Okay, now would you address my post concerning the fish?

God Says that ONLY air-breathing land animals, in whose NOSTRILS is the breath of life were taken on the Ark.

Aquatic creatures were preserved outside the ark in pockets of adequate fresh water or salt water as their needs required. Preflood species had greater capacity for variation, and it is only after the passing of many years now that various species have become more and more restricted as to capacity for environmental adaptation.

Numerous fishes today are capable of living in both fresh and salt water. Moreover there are both fresh water and salt water Catfish, and there are fresh water and salt water dolphins, likewise with many other types of fish.

If you need to supply a miracle here then that is fine, but preflood adaptability is an adequate explanation as well. Yet there had to be some work of God in preserving any animate life outside the Ark, just as the Bible declares that God preserved and protected the animals and people that were IN the Ark.

When one understands the magnitude of the Flood and the cataclysmic devastation with all sorts of tectonic activity as well as cosmic impacts we must aknowledge the hand of divine protection for any life that survived. Of course the evolutionists like to imagine that there is no hand of God so the invent what they consider a natural explanation for the ORIGIN and Continuation of Life in the Universe, and the invent what the consider a "LOGICAL" natural explanation for the Origin of Matter and thought. Quite a faith!

 

[Floodnut]

What resilience? That's the point. Fresh water species do not survive in sea water and vice-versa. Some species are so delicate, that a slight change in temperature or pH level is lethal. If these fish had this resilience you speak of, we'd see hammerhead sharks in Lake Michigan and Lahontan cutthroat trout in the Mediterranean. We do not see these things. A global flood would produce brackish water, killing nearly all fish species. Did Noah have aquariums on his ark? If he did, what were they made of? How did he heat them to support tropical species?

They DO not. This does not prove that they DID not. What happens today is not the same as what happened then. We live in a radically altered world. And You worry about an aquarium on the Ark, when it has been stated to you over and over and over again that ONLY air-breathing land animals in whose nostrils is the breath of life were taken on the ark.

How can you be sure that all the water over ALL the earth would be thoroughly mixed after one year? Our own fresh water lakes are not thoroughly mixed, and the ocean itself is not thoroughly mixed. It would not be of equal salinity, even after the entire year of the flood's duration.

And with regard to water temperature, that does not equalize either, not even after one year, by NATURAL processes. We don't even need to supply a miracle here, but God could if it was necessary. Of course you are aware that the worldwide climate prior to the flood was much more temperate from pole to pole and equatorial areas were not as hot. There was a greater evenness of climate and weather in the preflood world as degreed paleontologists and meteorologists have shown.

 

[L'Anatra]

Someone asked: Okay, now would you address my post concerning the fish?

God Says that ONLY air-breathing land animals, in whose NOSTRILS is the breath of life were taken on the Ark.

Aquatic creatures were preserved outside the ark in pockets of adequate fresh water or salt water as their needs required. Preflood species had greater capacity for variation, and it is only after the passing of many years now that various species have become more and more restricted as to capacity for environmental adaptation.

Numerous fishes today are capable of living in both fresh and salt water. Moreover there are both fresh water and salt water Catfish, and there are fresh water and salt water dolphins, likewise with many other types of fish.

If you need to supply a miracle here then that is fine, but preflood adaptability is an adequate explanation as well. Yet there had to be some work of God in preserving any animate life outside the Ark, just as the Bible declares that God preserved and protected the animals and people that were IN the Ark.

When one understands the magnitude of the Flood and the cataclysmic devastation with all sorts of tectonic activity as well as cosmic impacts we must aknowledge the hand of divine protection for any life that survived. Of course the evolutionists like to imagine that there is no hand of God so the invent what they consider a natural explanation for the ORIGIN and Continuation of Life in the Universe, and the invent what the consider a "LOGICAL" natural explanation for the Origin of Matter and thought. Quite a faith!

Aside from the complete ridiculousness of this post and others made by you, I'd like to point out that dolphins are most certainly not fish.

Explain how these "pockets" of water existed and how they would form. And explain the extra-Biblical source of this hypothesis. Aside from the "Goddidit" claim being bad theology (inserting God into the gaps in our knowledge), its invocation absolutely does not cut it in the science forum.

 

[nvxplorer]

That's funny, floodnut.

"Evolutionists need to invent natural explanations. Why bother? We can invent God!"

"Goddidit. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!"

 

[Floodnut]

Aside from the complete ridiculousness of this post and others made by you, . . .

You are the one who makes ridiculous posts. Nyaaaah.
I can play that game too.

Of course dolphins are not fish, but there are fresh water varieties.

And it is extra-biblical, but not contra-biblical to assert that there was not a thorough mixing of the waters. And it is certainly in harmony with naturally observed phenomena that mixing does not occur quickly. A year would be a very brief time for complete mixing. There is no need to supply a miracle here, except that all of life is a miracle, and life on the planet is a miracle. Your life is a miracle, inexplicable apart from divine creation.

 

[nvxplorer]

Aquatic creatures were preserved outside the ark in pockets of adequate fresh water or salt water as their needs required.

Chapter and verse, please?

Preflood species had greater capacity for variation, and it is only after the passing of many years now that various species have become more and more restricted as to capacity for environmental adaptation.

Chapter and verse?

Numerous fishes today are capable of living in both fresh and salt water. Moreover there are both fresh water and salt water Catfish, and there are fresh water and salt water dolphins, likewise with many other types of fish.

And numerous fishes don't possess this capability. Point?

If you need to supply a miracle here then that is fine, but preflood adaptability is an adequate explanation as well.

No, you're the one who needs to supply miracles. I don't dabble in the supernatural. As to preflood adaptability, chapter and verse, please?

Yet there had to be some work of God in preserving any animate life outside the Ark, just as the Bible declares that God preserved and protected the animals and people that were IN the Ark.

Like I said, miracles are your domain.

When one understands the magnitude of the Flood and the cataclysmic devastation with all sorts of tectonic activity as well as cosmic impacts we must aknowledge the hand of divine protection for any life that survived. Of course the evolutionists like to imagine that there is no hand of God so the invent what they consider a natural explanation for the ORIGIN and Continuation of Life in the Universe, and the invent what the consider a "LOGICAL" natural explanation for the Origin of Matter and thought. Quite a faith!

You're right. Goddidit is a much more logical explanation. I'm going to adopt this technique and use it every time I need an excuse. My boss has a few surprises in store.

 

[A4C]

Do you ever get in trouble for these flamings?

If I reported them all the time I would not have enough web time to tell of the mighty works of God