Live Streamed Communion?

Paidiske

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Well, you probably didn't just sit down in front of a computer and have an online thingie. Presumably you had a normal service but without almost all of the people. We have regularly had masses televised on a local cable access channel for years, but there were hundreds of people physically there too. Same as now but ten or less people present (priest, deacon, the sisters, organist, choir director, cantor, and camera operator) instead of hundreds. It's just as real even if I don't quite feel it.

I'm doing two different things. One is a Eucharist once a week with three people present, which is recorded and then the recording shared on FB/Youtube.

But I'm also livestreaming morning prayer each day, which is indeed me in front of a computer on my own having an online "thingie." And that's what I was slightly surprised - in a good way - to see that the diocese wanted included in the service register.
 
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chevyontheriver

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I'm doing two different things. One is a Eucharist once a week with three people present, which is recorded and then the recording shared on FB/Youtube.

But I'm also livestreaming morning prayer each day, which is indeed me in front of a computer on my own having an online "thingie." And that's what I was slightly surprised - in a good way - to see that the diocese wanted included in the service register.
Ah, morning prayer. I like it. And since it is liturgy, it makes sense to record it as such. I remember hearing that the Ordinariate in the USA had a regularly scheduled phone-in morning and evening prayer. I guess most people just muted and went with it.
 
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Messerve

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I would argue the opposite. The Eucharist is healing. In the past the Church didn't hide, there are tales of whole parishes parading icons, carrying the Blessed Eucharist and praying and the disease left. Where is real faith now? Even our main diocese gives parking lot/drive by Eucharist because it is that important
And that's part of my problem, too. Obviously it isn't good if the Church becomes the epicenter for new outbreaks, but who's to say that would be the case? Does our faith direct us to use Facebook Live and virtual communion instead of merely taking precautions? It seems like a weak response, not a bold response like the Church is supposed to be known for. We should have been leading in the response, but we let others tell us what to do.

The world gives us troubles, but who overcomes the world? Jesus! Does that mean we should only protect ourselves when trouble strikes?
 
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Messerve

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And that's part of my problem, too. Obviously it isn't good if the Church becomes the epicenter for new outbreaks, but who's to say that would be the case? Does our faith direct us to use Facebook Live and virtual communion instead of merely taking precautions? It seems like a weak response, not a bold response like the Church is supposed to be known for. We should have been leading in the response, but we let others tell us what to do.

The world gives us troubles, but who overcomes the world? Jesus! Does that mean we should only protect ourselves when trouble strikes?
Oh also, my apartment neighbors like to blast their music Sunday mornings, so that makes worship very challenging. :sigh:^_^
 
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charsan

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And that's part of my problem, too. Obviously it isn't good if the Church becomes the epicenter for new outbreaks, but who's to say that would be the case? Does our faith direct us to use Facebook Live and virtual communion instead of merely taking precautions? It seems like a weak response, not a bold response like the Church is supposed to be known for. We should have been leading in the response, but we let others tell us what to do.

Exactly. The greater Church became as it were Adam and Eve again, hiding and ready to blame. As my Priest said today at Mass, online is not Church meeting together is. We can learn from the Ancient Church that went among the sick and took care of them, help others and you know what happen Christianity. We have Christianity today because of plagues. You are right our faith does not direct us to virtualize ourselves. I think Christians and the Church forgot who they are. I like this article about past plagues and pandemics Responding to Pandemics: 4 Lessons from Church History and some quotes:

Dionysius, bishop of Alexandria, reported:

Most of our brother Christians showed unbounded love and loyalty, never sparing themselves and thinking only of one another. Heedless of danger, they took charge of the sick, attending to their every need and ministering to them in Christ, and with them departed this life serenely happy; for they were infected by others with the disease, drawing on themselves the sickness of their neighbors and cheerfully accepting their pains. Many, in nursing and curing others, transferred their death to themselves and died in their stead.

This evident Christlikeness—taking death in order to give life—stood in stark contrast to those outside the church. Dionysius continues:

But with the heathen everything was quite otherwise. They deserted those who began to be sick, and fled from their dearest friends. They shunned any participation or fellowship with death; which yet, with all their precautions, it was not easy for them to escape. (Eusebius, Eccl. Hist. 7.22.7–10)

Plagues intensify the natural course of life. They intensify our own sense of mortality and frailty. They also intensify opportunities to display countercultural, counterconditional love. The church rose to the challenge in the second century, winning both admirers and also converts. A similar dynamic was at play a century later.​

I know many may say but, but, but and I say was any but in the Christian response of the past.

The world gives us troubles, but who overcomes the world? Jesus! Does that mean we should only protect ourselves when trouble strikes?

Exactly and Amen!
 
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Paidiske

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If we were talking about something where we were only risking ourselves, I'd agree. I'd be perfectly prepared to walk into a situation where all I was risking was my own health or life. One of the problems I do have with the way restrictions are working is the denial of last rites to those who are dying; and I would be willing to volunteer myself to administer those rites.

But at the same time, we know that church gatherings have been occasions for mass outbreaks of this virus. This is a situation where we risk the church, not taking on the deaths of others, but becoming the incubator and bringer of death to others. What's Christlike about that?
 
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charsan

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So hide, fine by me but don't force others to hide. Taking safety precautions are enough as Sweden has shown, limit the gatherings of people but don't eliminate Christ as the world has one and many Christians happily went along with.
 
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Paidiske

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A). Social distancing is not "hiding," especially when it's motivated by love rather than fear.
B). Church is a communal reality. The churches have to discern together what their approach will be. Mine has chosen to respect the government's measures. If you're unhappy with your church's approach, you need to speak to those governing your church.
C). Sweden's death rate isn't anything to envy.
D). None of this "eliminates" Christ.
 
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charsan

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A). Social distancing is not "hiding," especially when it's motivated by love rather than fear.[/quote]

Never said it was, you are assuming. We can all wear mask, stay six feet away (2 meters) and washing hands and being careful are what's called for not hiding in homes behind screens

B). Church is a communal reality. The churches have to discern together what their approach will be. Mine has chosen to respect the government's measures. If you're unhappy with your church's approach, you need to speak to those governing your church.

My Church is meeting not hiding behind a screen. There it s "the government measures" or they more important than God Himself. If the government told you to never speak of Christ again and they were closing down Churches for safety because of a disease would you go along with it because the government wants it? No? Than why are Christians going along with half of it now? Is God the most important or is the government and science more important than God.

C). Sweden's death rate isn't anything to envy.

The death rates are not that bad, it looks bad because the powers that be want us scared. Given the populations of every place the death rates are quite low and as they now expect that the virus was here log before they thought and that 96 percent have antibodies it will be shown while contagious not to be as bad as once thought


D). None of this "eliminates" Christ.

Hiding behind a screen sure does eliminate Christ, it doesn't show compassion nor love it does show self love
 
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Paidiske

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You can wear masks, stay two metres apart, and all the rest... and the virus will still spread. Those measures will reduce transmission, but not eliminate it.

And no, foregoing gathering for a time does not eliminate Christ. We are the body of Christ, and we continue to be even in this time.

Look, I don't mind if you'd prefer to gather, but I find your attacks on the character of those who've come to a different view (by accusing us of "hiding" and being fearful, lacking compassion and so on) to be pretty low. Surely we can do better than that in discussing this issue?
 
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charsan

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You can wear masks, stay two metres apart, and all the rest... and the virus will still spread. Those measures will reduce transmission, but not eliminate it.

Nothing but an act of God will eliminate the virus, it will be here forever. We can't hide in houses forever

And no, foregoing gathering for a time does not eliminate Christ. We are the body of Christ, and we continue to be even in this time.

That is your belief

Look, I don't mind if you'd prefer to gather, but I find your attacks on the character of those who've come to a different view (by accusing us of "hiding" and being fearful, lacking compassion and so on) to be pretty low. Surely we can do better than that in discussing this issue?

Maybe not. It seems we all view Christianity differently. Yes I do equate hiding as being in fear, that has been how this whole thing has played out with absolute fear and seeing science as the answer. I don't see a lot of Christ in any of this but all of a sudden people believe everything the government says but puts aside Christ. Government - Don't go to Church. God - Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together. This virus is a demarcation point to trust God or man's government. I am not saying be stupid and not use protection and all that but to hide forever is not a thing any Christian should do
 
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Paidiske

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But nobody is talking about "forever." We are talking about "for a time," perhaps three months or so, during which people who are infectious are able to be identified and quarantined, and during which other protective measures are able to be developed. Then we can look at a loosening of restrictions, with the sorts of measures you suggest, until we're able to look at a vaccine or other paths to relative safety.

(In my state there's serious discussion of complete elimination as a possibility, but that's part of the benefit of living in an island nation, I guess; we can lock down our infections folks, close our borders and be relatively safe).

I reject your characterisation of those with whom you disagree as hiding or fearful or lacking trust in God. I'm able to trust God to be with us even in these abnormal circumstances.
 
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charsan

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I reject your characterisation of those with whom you disagree as hiding or fearful or lacking trust in God. I'm able to trust God to be with us even in these abnormal circumstances.

You can and I am free to hold my opinion, we do not have to agree nor find a middle ground.
 
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Messerve

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If we were talking about something where we were only risking ourselves, I'd agree. I'd be perfectly prepared to walk into a situation where all I was risking was my own health or life. One of the problems I do have with the way restrictions are working is the denial of last rites to those who are dying; and I would be willing to volunteer myself to administer those rites.

But at the same time, we know that church gatherings have been occasions for mass outbreaks of this virus. This is a situation where we risk the church, not taking on the deaths of others, but becoming the incubator and bringer of death to others. What's Christlike about that?
A couple close relatives should be allowed, too. It makes no sense that if the person is dying a couple people can't visit them and then those people just isolate for two weeks... We do it with everything else.

But... the outbreaks were before mask wearing and six-feet-apart requirements and head-count limits. With those things in place, I see no reason doors can't reopen and services can't be held just differently than before.
 
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Messerve

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But nobody is talking about "forever." We are talking about "for a time," perhaps three months or so, during which people who are infectious are able to be identified and quarantined, and during which other protective measures are able to be developed. Then we can look at a loosening of restrictions, with the sorts of measures you suggest, until we're able to look at a vaccine or other paths to relative safety.

(In my state there's serious discussion of complete elimination as a possibility, but that's part of the benefit of living in an island nation, I guess; we can lock down our infections folks, close our borders and be relatively safe).

I reject your characterisation of those with whom you disagree as hiding or fearful or lacking trust in God. I'm able to trust God to be with us even in these abnormal circumstances.
Just to shed a little light on this subject, here in the US (I don't know about Australia) we have come to realize that very little from our authorities can be taken at face value because we get conflicting opinions from politicians, conflicting reports from media and statisticians, conflicting safety measures from governors, and it sometimes seems that everyone has an agenda and some scheme to make money off this whole thing or advance their own political dreams. So it doesn't make sense for the American church to simply follow what we're told without a healthy amount of skepticism. For example, a church meeting in a parking lot (never leaving the vehicles) in Mississippi was ordered closed by their governor. Why? There was practically zero chance of transmission. At the same time grocery stores are still open, hardware stores are open, they're trying to re-open daycare/kindy in my state (though we all know children can be silent carriers), liquor stores were deemed essential after first being shut down, food processing plants have to remain open, hospitals obviously are open, I even known an ice cream shop that never closed it's doors. so the whole thing feel very unbalanced and rather unfair, especially since the Church is supposed to be a place of refuge for exactly these kinds of times. And online just isn't a sufficient replacement.

The government never ordered churches closed but strongly recommended it and then said no more than ten people are allowed in one place at a time. But last time I was out getting groceries, there were a lot more than ten people inside the store... So if we aren't going to apply the guidelines everywhere, aren't we just fooling ourselves? It will never go away as long as there are compromises left and right.

If it had been up to me I would have given everyone a few weeks to prepare and buy essentials and then ACTUALLY shut down the country for two weeks. No hardware stores, no grocery stores, no pharmacies, no parks or trails. Only hospitals and emergency services (I guess including people like linesmen or plumbers). But instead we made way too many exceptions, and so it really hasn't been successfully contained at all.

One other thing we really did poorly as a country was focusing on states instead of geography. Does it really make a difference that a town on one side of a state border is shut down while one on the other side of the border is all open? Not at all. Unless no one is able to travel between states (which hasn't been the case most places) then focusing on states instead of geographical areas is a faulty way of seeing this.

And international flights continue to come and go... Ugh. Mismanagement at it's finest.

We need to respect our authorities as Jesus instructs. However, in this particular situation I'm not 100% convinced the government didn't ask us to do something unbiblical.
 
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Messerve

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And how do you receive communion while wearing a mask...?
Well my church has separate wafers and wine cups. I know other churches do differently, but is that an essential doctrine or could it be modified temporarily?
 
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Paidiske

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Well my church has separate wafers and wine cups. I know other churches do differently, but is that an essential doctrine or could it be modified temporarily?

My point is, you have to take your mask off to put communion in your mouth.
 
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charsan

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Well my church has separate wafers and wine cups. I know other churches do differently, but is that an essential doctrine or could it be modified temporarily?

As we do. We go back to our seats and take the Eucharist.

I think people think mask will help but there is still conflicting opinions on that and my county in Ca is voting Tuesday to not make mask wearing mandatory. Like you sad in an earlier post we are so lied to here that no one can believe anything.
 
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Paidiske

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I guess having a background in immunology (that was my first degree) helps me to feel that I understand the situation fairly well, and can take from the various bits of information and advice what is helpful.

Perhaps part of what would be helpful for America - in the future, it's too late now for this situation - is making sure school students get a really robust science education? From what I understand at the moment that's often a weakness.
 
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