Liturgy or Evangelical Sermon

[Barney2.0]

Except the Bible does have a lot to say about praise and worship. Quite a lot, actually.

And it is to be interpreted in the cultural scope of that time, the Apostles preached in synagogues and had Church meetings as in Acts of the Apostles, very different to the Evangelical practice of worship I’m the form of a rock concert.

 

[Kalevalatar]

Liturgy, although our Lutheran liturgy does include a sermon. Liturgy gives the familiar, comfortable rhythm and solemn structure to the service that allows me to focus on the actual content, i.e. worship. In a way, I suppose liturgy is kind of meditative. The few times I have been invited, as a Lutheran expat, to other kind of "freewheeling" services, it has felt as though a show where the performers are trying hard to wow me with new tricks. Very disorientating.

 

[Phil 1:21]

And it is to be interpreted in the cultural scope of that time, the Apostles preached in synagogues and had Church meetings as in Acts of the Apostles, very different to the Evangelical practice of worship I’m the form of a rock concert.

And still nothing about them burning incense to statues and paintings. Very telling.

 

[Barney2.0]

And still nothing about them burning incense to statues and paintings. Very telling.

Nothing about them playing guitars and rock music either. It was historically known that Jews burned incense in synagogues and had paintings in them.

 

[Kalevalatar]

And still nothing about them burning incense to statues and paintings. Very telling.

Throughout most of the Christian history, literacy was rare, books were rare, vernacular translations of the Bible nonexistent. Biblical paintings served a purpose in conveying Bible stories to the masses, much as we still use picture Bibles for children. Incense also has the practical purpose of sweetening bad odours when unwashed masses pack inside a closed space. Or worse, the rot from bodies buried under the church floors.

 

[DamianWarS]

When I was young my family attended a Baptist church. I went there hundreds of times. As l got older I rarely ever went at all.

When I decided to return, I visited a number of different protestant churches that never seemed to "do it" for me. It was only with my first visit to an Orthodox Church that I saw people actually worshipping God. And it is there that people eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man.

I can never return to a protestant church again. No sermons for me.

might I suggest that searching for something that "does it" for you is a flawed way of approaching worship

 

[Phil 1:21]

Nothing about them playing guitars and rock music either.

I’m pretty sure worship services with music are scriptural...good stuff.

 

[HTacianas]

might I suggest that searching for something that "does it" for you is a flawed way of approaching worship

Put another way, they didn't "do it" for me because they preached heresy.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I’m pretty sure worship services with music are scriptural...good stuff.

Our Divine Liturgy is musical through the entire service, beginning with Matins so about three hours - except the reading of Scripture and the Creed and Our Father (and those are sung or chanted in some parishes), and the homily.

It's not music we don't have. It's the focus on a wide array of musical instruments.

 

[~Anastasia~]

might I suggest that searching for something that "does it" for you is a flawed way of approaching worship

I would agree with you. Which I why I reluctantly and finally stopped seeking God through the setting of an emotionally satisfying "worship experience" and thankfully rediscovered it again in the context of a God-focused service without attempts at manipulation.

I recognize well that worship is possible within the other context. I just found fewer and fewer churches that knew how to do it anymore and had turned to contrivances instead.

 

[Barney2.0]

I’m pretty sure worship services with music are scriptural...good stuff.

I’d like to see some refferences for the Apostles and the early Church playing the guitar and drums when preaching. Also God would find it abhorrent and horrifying to find people playing rock music and claiming to receive the Holy Spirit while holding their hands in the air.

 

[Willie T]

I’d like to see some refferences for the Apostles and the early Church playing the guitar and drums when preaching. Also God would find it abhorrent and horrifying to find people playing rock music and claiming to receive the Holy Spirit while holding their hands in the air.

I think it is listed right in the section of the Bible that orders us to use air conditioning, padded pews and kneeling fold-downs, stained glass windows, books to follow along, and microphones, and electric lights, and water coolers, and indoor restrooms, etc.

 

[Willie T]

Then I guess you should have listened more because 100% of our music is directly from the Bible, the lives of the saints, or hymns written more than 1000 years ago. The "Pomp" as you put it has nothing to do with entertainment, but symbolism of the future kingdom. Orthodox services are actually designed to not be entertaining. Which is why ideally our readings would be done in monotone, so that the person is focusing on the words being said and not the reader.

And Rope belt? Where on Earth were you at?

Prayer rope - Wikipedia

Some other thoughts about it:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=34112.0

 

[DamianWarS]

I would agree with you. Which I why I reluctantly and finally stopped seeking God through the setting of an emotionally satisfying "worship experience" and thankfully rediscovered it again in the context of a God-focused service without attempts at manipulation.

I recognize well that worship is possible within the other context. I just found fewer and fewer churches that knew how to do it anymore and had turned to contrivances instead.

Our emotions and satisfaction are not requirements of true worship but they also should not be looked at as anti-worship. Any system set up for worship manipulates by design and manipulates our emotional state. The trouble we get into is when we can only recognize worship in a very narrow context. Worship is less about the place, language or culture and is more about the everyday. If we cannot recognize worship in the mundane and even the shallow areas of our life the high or grandeur moments won't help us and we are fools to think emotion does not play a significant role.

 

[Willie T]

Sorry, but I just feel so cold when following a script in worshiping. I feel the presence of God so much more when I am involved in an emotional way.

 

[Kalevalatar]

I would agree with you. Which I why I reluctantly and finally stopped seeking God through the setting of an emotionally satisfying "worship experience" and thankfully rediscovered it again in the context of a God-focused service without attempts at manipulation.

I recognize well that worship is possible within the other context. I just found fewer and fewer churches that knew how to do it anymore and had turned to contrivances instead.

We Lutherans are rather big on church music and singing hymns in particular. Luther recognized, in the spirit of the Great Commission, that if only people would come, God would take care of the rest. And that one way of making the unwashed, illiterate, disengaged masses "not yet Christian" to join in was to make the German Mass emotionally appealing with the help of music and singing.

Therefore, the printers do well if they publish a lot of good hymns and make them attractive to the people with all sorts of ornamentations, so that they may move them to joy in faith and to gladly sing.

 

[NW82]

Where is the divine inspiration of the Word if all you do is go by a predetermined script?

 

[Tree of Life]

A homily. A sermon is longer i think. 30 mins and more.

Saint John Chrysostom, bishop of Constantinople, would preach for hours some Sundays.

 

[Not David]

Where is the divine inspiration of the Word if all you do is go by a predetermined script?

I'm sure you read the lyrics when you sing songs and the Pastor has to memorize his sermon, so I don't think it's a fair comparison.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Prayer rope - Wikipedia

Some other thoughts about it:
Wearing prayer ropes?

Ah ok. A prayer rope is a tool used in prayer. Beyond some very basic use it is mostly confined to monks. It should not be worn as a belt, but often monks will carry them by attaching them to their belts.

It doesn't have much to do with Liturgy. A few would be visible in our parish during a service - generally short ones worn around the wrist by a few laypeople.