The Liturgist

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Yes, I use the most recent book of common worship, but I think 1970 was the beginning. I don’t have a copy handy to compare. Glory To God says it’s not intended to replace other liturgical resources. Indeed it says its liturgy is taken primarily from the 1993 Book of Common Worship.

In addition, the church regularly publishes services or just the Great Prayer of Thanksgiving, for various occasions.

Interesting. So is one supposed to use the new hymnal with the 1993 Book of Common Worship?

Also, would you happen to know if either the PCA or the OPC ever published any formal liturgical material in their hymnals or elsewhere? I remember fondly the Coral Ridge Hour with Dr. James Kennedy, who I miss, and unfortunately his broadcasts the last time I looked had not been uploaded to youtube. I once had the pleasure of attending Coral Ridge while he was preaching, and of meeting him, and he was a majestic homilist, although I do sympathize with the complaints people have that he was too overtly political. I aim to be politically neutral, except when it comes to the persecution of Christians, the sanctity of life and human sexuality, where complete neutrality does not cut the mustard, to use a British phrase I recently fell in love with, but I certainly at all times avoid being party political. Nonetheless, it was clear Coral Ridge was following a standard liturgy, although I have no idea if they implemented it themselves following loose instructions from The Book of Order, or if their hymnals (and I don’t have any PCA or OPC hymnals, yet) contained a liturgical service (the blue early 90s hymnals at a PCUSA church I recently visited were completely devoid of liturgical material other than the usual collection of hymns), or if there are other service books in use.
 
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Is this what you mean? The Anaphora of St. Basil the Great (MCI) It seems to identify it as Byzantine. The epiclesis certainly doesn’t push transubstantiation as hard as the Coptic version. The following

As we offer you the holy body and blood of your Christ in this form,
we pray you and beseech you, O Holy of Holies, that, according to your kind favor,
your Holy Spirit may come upon us and upon these gifts here offered;
and bless and sanctify them and show this bread to be truly the precious body of our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ
and this chalice to be truly the precious blood of our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ
shed for the life of the world
so that all of us who share this one bread and chalice may be united with one another in the communion of the one Holy Spirit,
and that none of us partake of the holy body and blood of your Christ for judgment or condemnation.

has a lot of similarities to the one I quoted above from the PCUSA. But there are key differences. It says that the bread and chalice are the body and blood, while the PCUSA version says that by the Holy Spirit they become the communion with the body and blood. Not precisely the same, since for Calvin the body and blood are in heaven, and we commune on them through the Holy Spirit. So the elements are means by which we commune with the body and blood but aren’t the body and blood themselves. The PCUSA wording is fairly subtle in how it embodies Calvin. It is consistent with a range of Protestant views, but I think the implication is Calvinist.

This, of course, is why Presbyterian pastors will often hand you the cup saying “the cup of salvation”, rather than “the blood of Christ,” and “the bread of life,” rather than “the body of Christ.”

The Metropolitan Cantor’s Institute has translations which are suboptimal. A better modern translation would be that of the esteemed Archimandrite Ephrem Lash (memory eternal), who is one of only a handful of writers of modern English liturgical texts whose work I like.

Here is his St. Basil:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160412130047if_/http://anastasis.org.uk/Basil noted[3].pdf

In particular, his approach to dealing with “Thine own of thine own, we offer unto Thee, on behalf of all, and for all,” was brilliant, but for my part, I would rather preserve the traditional language. But clearly there is a need for both, especially in countries where English is a second language and a lingua franca for the population, and Christianity is not the dominant religion (in contrast, the 70% of Ghanaians who believe in Christ are so Christian and pious that even though they meet the above definition, their dedication to the Christian faith ensures that traditional ecclesiastical English of the Authorized Version and the BCP is not only well understood, but ubiquitous; Ghanaians tend to be intimately familiar with the sayings of our Lord and other scriptural verses, and frequentlt use them to name their businesses, sometimes with amusing results, such as the famous barber shop called Watch and Pray, and the minibus line Pray Without Ceasing, which I have heard aptly describes the experience of the streets and highways in the country).

But I digress. Among ancient liturgical texts of St. Basil, there are versions where the Real Change is less explicitly physical, and I shall seek to pull an excerpt from one of my books which quotes in English an early manuscript. And of course, the liturgy can always be tweaked. Actually, Eucharistic Prayer 4 / Eucharistic Prayer D in the Novus Ordo Missae and the 1979 BCP are adaptations of the Egyptian liturgy of St. Basil, and I seem to recall one of the other Eucharistic Prayers from those two sources also being based on St. Basil. The idea with Eucharistic Prayer 4 and Eucharistic Prayer D, and other implementations in other prayerbooks, is that it would be a standard ecumenical Holy Communion service for use at liturgies concelebrated by multiple churches. It is interesting to ponder why Cardinal Bugnini thought to include such a service in the Novus Ordo Missae, and also how its intended function was propagated to the mainline churches, and the extent to which it has actually been used for its intended purpose (perhaps never in the case of the Roman Catholic Church, or perhaps in joint Ambrosian Rite-Roman Rite liturgies? Or perhaps Bugnini assumed a Novus Ordo Sacramentarium for every liturgical rite in the Roman church, not just the Roman and Ambrosian Rites?*

By the way, Eastern Orthodox members may find Fr. Ephrem’s resources invaluable, given that he provides for free his own modern translations of liturgical texts which would otherwise be highly expensive. He also has probably the best translation of the Divine Liturgy of St. James and its unusual Liturgy of the Catechumens, in terms of textual sources, on the Net; the manuscripts he selected and his usability-focused approach ensures an authentic recension which is also viable for parish use. Although I have seen parishes chuck the non-standard synaxis and use the Anaphora by itself, and I myself think the Eastern Orthodox ought to do this so as to use the Anaphora of St. James together with its celebrated cherubic hymn, Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silent, on Holy Saturday, where the Liturgy of the Catechumens and Energumens is very distinctive, it being, for people unfamiliar with the Byzantine Rite, the service at which people awaiting baptism (energumens) are baptized and chrismated while fourteen very obvious Old Testament prophecies of our Lord are read; it is also a Vesperal Divine Liturgy, which is worth noting, because it is only at Vespers and Vesperal Divine Liturgies the Orthodox will read the Old Testament.** So whether or not one uses the Anaphora of St. Basil or St. James would not even be noticed by most people, since all of the distinctive features are either masked by the Vesperal synaxis, or included anyway (specifically, the distinctive hymn associated with the liturgy). And the Anaphora of St. Basil would still be used for every other Vesperal Divine Liturgy, as it is now, so it would not be endangered.

And for that matter, the Divine Liturgies of St. Mark and St. Peter, which differ only in the priests prayers, I feel ought to be used, as indeed they once were, among the Russian Old Believers in Turkey, and in the case of the Divine Liturgy of St. Mark, for many centuries in Egypt, it being the oldest liturgy known to exist, and certainly older than St. James. The current recension of the Liturgy of St. Mark was prepared by His Beatitude the Pope of Alexandria in the 1890s, modernized so as to be interchangeable with the liturgies of St. Basil and St. Chrysostom.

* The Roman Rite was not the only one to get a Novus Ordo Missae; Paul VI had at one time been Archbishop of Milan and this guaranteed the Ambrosian Rite received extra, shall we say, attention. There are six rather than four Eucharistic prayers in the new Ambrosian missal, and the Duomo was retrofitted with a massive central marbal slab in place of the old High Altar, which is still there of course, but the new slab altar is so large as to be impractical. Fortunately, one church in Milan preserves the ancient form of the Ambrosian Rite, and the new version of it at least tends to be celebrated in a consistently dignified manner, without the abuses which plague the Roman Rite. The Mozarabic and Carthusian liturgies also received minor changes; why, I can’t imagine, since the former is preserved in only one chapel in Toledo and only rarely used elsewhere, and the latter had not been touched for 800 years, making it one of the longest, if not the longest, liturgical rite in continual use without any modification.

**Historically the Roman Rite had a similar service on Easter Even, in which 12 Old Testament prophecies were read and baptisms performed during a vigil service which preceded a mass, and this happened in the morning, like the Vesperal Divine Liturgy on Holy Saturday. Then, in 1955, Pope Pius XII moved the Paschal Vigil Mass into the evening of Holy Saturday, and eliminated 8 of the 12 Old Testament lessons. Not content with destroying that rare example of Roman-Byzantine liturgical commonality, he then altered the text of the Mass of the Presanctified on Good Friday, and switched from black to red vestments, breaking the commonality in its pre-Pius XII recension shared between the Orthodox and Catholic churches and attributed by both to Pope St. Gregory, and celebrated in black vestments by both churches, the only differences being the Roman church using it only on Good Friday, where the Eastern Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics used it throughout Lent and on Holy Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, but not Good Friday, when there is no liturgy served in their rite, and the structure of the surrounding parts of the liturgy, with the Orthodox version starting with the Ninth Hour and including Vespers. So when it comes to liturgics, as I see it, the last really brilliant Roman Pope was Pius X, although to their credit Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI made the old rites more accessible, and both had a taste for liturgical beauty.
 
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hedrick

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That text says

The Priest, bowing, continues [in a low voice]: Therefore, we also, All-holy Mas- ter, sinners and your unworthy servants, whom you have counted worthy to minister at your holy altar, not because of our own justice (for we have done nothing good on earth), but because of your mercies and pities, which you have richly poured out on us96, boldly approach your holy altar; and as we set forth the antitypes97 of the holy body and blood of your Christ, we beg and implore you, O Holy of Holies, that by the good pleasure of your goodness, your Holy Spirit may come upon98 us and upon these gifts here set forth, and that he may bless, hallow them and declare...
this bread to be the precious body of our Lord and God and Saviour, Jesus Christ,

While it has no theory of the real presence, it is still a bit more direct than I think a PCUSA liturgy would be. The text I quoted says the bread and wine are the communion with the body and blood, not quite that they are. For a more generic Protestant wording, here is a UMC epiclesis

Pour out your Holy Spirit on us gathered here,
and on these gifts of bread and wine.
Make them be for us the body and blood of Christ,
that we may be for the world the body of Christ,
redeemed by his blood.
Discipleship Ministries | A SERVICE OF WORD AND TABLE I AND…

Note “be *for us* the body and blood.” Again not quite a direct statement that it is the body and blood.

I was unable to find a general liturgy for the ELCA, but thus example http://download.elca.org/ELCA Resou...tion_Of_Full_Communion_Lutheran_Episcopal.pdf also uses the “for us” wording.
 
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hedrick

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I don’t know specifics of PCA and OPC. Here is the PCA constitution. https://www.pcaac.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/BCO-2019-with-bookmarks-for-website-1.pdf It has details on the communion service, though I hope it’s not the complete liturgy. I found this example online. http://ascensionpc.org/docs/liturgies/20210314.pdf It’s a pretty truncated liturgy. Note that they have open communion. The constitution seems to allow it, depending upon how you understand evangelical church. I was surprised, since I had always heard that they were very limited in who they allow.
 
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IRT to the 1672 Council, its seen as a semi-Ecumenical council but personally, I'm a bit leery of the Scholastic leanings it has. From my history classes this timeframe was odd for the Greek church. They were getting a lot of their printed materials from Venice printers and clergy educated in Italy. So at least from modern eyes, some of this is now a little suspect due to these influences.
 
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IRT to the 1672 Council, its seen as a semi-Ecumenical council but personally, I'm a bit leery of the Scholastic leanings it has. From my history classes this timeframe was odd for the Greek church. They were getting a lot of their printed materials from Venice printers and clergy educated in Italy. So at least from modern eyes, some of this is now a little suspect due to these influences.

I do agree concerning the semi-scholastic influence; we should also consider that at the time of the council, the Jesuits and Theatines were actively meddling in the affairs of the Eastern churches; the Theatines in particular, who later became very nearly extinct as a religious order, were allegedly responsible for orchestrating several incidents where portions of Orthodox churches broke away in what is strictly speaking a schism, so they could enter into communion with the Pope of Rome.

That said, the relationship with the Venetian Republic did one incredibly awesome thing for Orthodox Christianity, and that is, the Italian Baroque composers who travelled to Ukraine, facilitating the development of several glorious new forms of Slavonic chant. Slavonic Orthodox church music went from having three or four beautiful systems of chant (Znamenny, Byzantine, Russian and Ukrainian hybrid monastic derivatives of Byzantine and Znamenny chant, such as ancient Ukrainian monody, and Valaam chant, and finally, the Prostopinije congregational hymns and chant of the Carpatho-Rusyn and Lemko ethnic groups who had been incorporated without any say in the matter into the Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church by the Union of Brest, under pressure from the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

However, when the Italian composers arrived, all modern forms of Russian and Slavic music originated from that encounter as well as the cultural encounter between the Czechs, Slovaks, Serbs, Croatians and Slovenians with the Austrians and Germans, who were oppressive to the slavs, but had good music. The distinct character of the early church music of the Kievan Rus and the existence of Znamenny Chant furthermore I believe was the result of the Swedish Varangians (Vikings) who married into Slavic tribes, creating the Rus people from whom Russians, Ukrainians, Belorussians, and to a lesser extent, the Rusyns (Ruthenians or “Red Russians”) are descended from, and resulting in a synthesis between ancient Swedish music, ancient East Slavic music, and Byzantine ecclesiastical music. So Slavonic music has in a sense always been a melting pot, and the Italians who introduced Baroque tonality and four part harmony enabled a great deal more melting, of the good kind (synthesis) as opposed to the bad kind, or the good but destructive kind of the Wicked Witch of the West (“Help me, I’m melting!”).*

So as a result of that, there are a vast array of beautiful systems of Russian, Ukrainian, Belarussian and Bulgarian chant. You have high concept classical church music by Dmitry Bortniansky, Pavel Chesnokov, Alexander Nikolsky, Alexander Archangelsky, Artemy Vedel, Even Stankovych and numerous other fine ecclesiastical composers such as Degterev, Popsavov, Sheremetev, Sorokin, and of course, the extremely successful setting of the Divine Liturgy and All Night Vigils by Rachmaninoff, and a reasonably good setting by Tchaikovsky.

So in addition to the aforementioned composers, Slavonic music also wound up with a ton of beautiful new chants, including Greek Chant, which as I am sure you are aware, is not Byzantine chant, but some of the melodies, especially the famous setting of the Trisagion, do have a Hellenic sound to them, albeit a modern one, being tonal, like Agni Parthene, and then Kievan Chant, Imperial Court Chant, Bulgarian Chant, and the distinctive chant of numerous monasteries which are too numerous to iterate. And these systems, and indeed even to a large extent the music by the great ecclesiastical composers mentioned above, follow an 8 mode system derived from Byzantine Chant, and this is related to the eight modes** of Gregorian Chant and of course, the Gallican Chant Family (Ambrosian, Mozarabic, Gallican, Beneventan, and other more obscure varieties). And the evidence does show that St. Ambrose did import the first antiphonal hymns per se into the Western Church; the extremely conservative Roman chant up until that point was, for purposes of Latin worship at least, monotonic chant, and indeed the low mass was chanted using monotony until the tenth century, when the custom of whispering it began, along with the unique French practice of organ accompaniment; one will still hear monotonous chant in some Anglican liturgies from the 20th century, when Anglo Catholic priests used it to intone certain parts of Evensong and other services that are more commonly read.

The organist at York Minster in the 1970s, Francis Jackson, a contemporary of Herbert Howells and other Anglican composers I love, was particularly good at chanting the entire service of choral evensong and was one of the last to follow that practice, which sadly disappeared almost completely in the 1990s, and that combined with the virtual disappearance of upper RP pronunciation by the clergy has had the effect of degrading the sound of Choral Evensong, but only in Scotland will one likely hear a beautiful regional accent that is an acceptable replacement for “BBC English” as it was once known, although it should be noted that Church of England clergy took received pronunciation to an extreme, creating beautiful sounds even when they spoke, by holding their jaw stationary as much as possible. You can hear this exquisite vocalization in older recordings of Church of England worship, and it persisted into the 1970s, like so many other awesome British traditions which have since vanished.

And there is also evidence to support the idea that St. Gregory Dialogos (Pope St. Gregory the Great) was largely responsible for the system of Gregorian chant, although many of the most famous Gregorian compositions, like the Missa Angelis (composed, I think, in the 1300s or early 1400s by a Franciscan friar), and the Litany of Loretto, were composed a long time after his papacy
Indeed the Litany of Loretto postdates St. Gregory by a thousand years, and was the prayer associated with the international Naval victory that kept the Ottomans on their side of the pond (there were four great victories that kept Europe Christian; that of St. Guillame of Gellone which kept the Islamic armies of Al-Andalus, an ongoing strategic war between the Rus and the Ottomans which lasted for a millenium, the Naval victory at Loretto, and the Relief of Vienna.

And of course, West Syriac chant as used by the Syriac Orthodox Church also has eight modes in the Beth Gazo (“House of Treasure”, their system of hymnody), while other Oriental churches have different chant systems; Tasbeha, for example, has named modes, and I don’t know how many there are, and I believe Ethiopian church music has more than eight modes. Ancient Greek Music had I think as many as nineteen modes in the “perfect tone system,” but I believe it had eight modes in common with the church, and one of the modes, either the seventh or the eighth, I recall a philosopher attacking because it was in his opinion depressing, in that it built up happy emotions and then smashed them.

As a Psalti @GreekOrthodox do you do much chanting?

One final argument you might be horrified by, and I am certain it would horrify my friends at the Greek Orthodox monastery of Elder Ephrem (memory eternal) in Florence, AZ, called St. Anthony’s, which is not far from a Coptic St. Anthony’s, and then in Egypt is the original Coptic St. Anthony’s, where if I ever do become a monk, that would be one monastery I might like - those excellent singers of Byzantine Chant, Capella Romana, have also massively piqued my curiosity about modern Greek Orthodox music through their recordings of Peter Michaelides (memory eternal) and Tikey Zes (who I believe reposed in the 90s), and I really want to hear more contemporary Greek Orthodox music. I have found recently a treasure trove of contemporary Romanian music, which being derived from Byzantine chant but embracing four part harmony, has a similar sound.

There is also the exquisite three part harmony of Georgia. When I first heard it, I was turned off, but that was because the all male choir had a forceful sound, similiar I would say to the monks at Simonpetra on Mount Athos, except without the refinement, so the result was...shouty. Fortunately, I soon found really good recordings by the Bassiani Ensemble, and various Georgian churches, and I fell in love. Recently I found on Apple Music a recording of Greek Orthodox chant in three part harmony, which baffles me; I had no idea there was any history of that system in use outside of Georgia and the Slavonic churches (specifically, the Russian Orthodox, Bulgarian Orthodox and the various autonomous churches in the former USSR under the MP, as well as the Ukrainian Greek Catholics and the new OCU, tend to share church music, and Georgian church music did become popular in these countries; I have many recordings, both albums and services on YouTube where Georgian chant makes an appearance, particularly the compositions of Zakhari Paliashvili, and there is an album of Ludmilla Arshavskaya leading the Cantus Musical Ensemble in singing his setting of the Divine Liturgy, albeit in Church Slavonic rather than Georgian).

* The lady who played the Wicked Witch of the West, as is so often the case with actors who play villains, was extremely nice; she appeared in one of my favorite episodes of Mr. Rogers, one which was intended to make sure young children were not frightened by, but were instead able to enjoy, make-believe, such as The Wizard of Oz. Fred Rogers, as most of you know, was an ordained minister in @hedrick ’s denomination, the PCUSA, specially ordained with a focus on children's television, and I regard him as the most important televangelist of the 20th century, because he was able to impart basic Christian values to an audience of young children that in many cases would not have heard the teachings of Jesus Christ from any other source.

Mr. Rogers was careful to make his program accessible to non-Christians, but the Christian values in it are abundantly apparent. He also prohibited one actor on his show, the singer who played the part of the African American policeman, who in real life is inclined towards homosexuality from attending homosexual nightclubs in the late 1970s, and I believe this action might be the reason why that talented singer is still with us - Mr. Rogers, by being, in the actors own words, a surrogate father, probably saved the man’s life, when we look at the tragedy of the initial spread of AIDS. Christians have a moral duty to save people from those passions which risk their lives, and if we have homosexual friends who look up to us, the best thing we can do is provide moral guidance. Unfortunately, the people at Westboro, who I think really hate people who are inclined towards that sin, have created a situation where it has become increasingly difficult for Christians to confront the sin of homosexual behavior without appearing to hate homosexuals, when in fact encouraging people to fast and pray rather than give in to carnal impulses, whether those impulses involve perversion, gluttony, avarice, the abuse of alcohol and other substances, theft, gambling, or violence, is one of the most loving things we can do, as human beings created in the image of Christ our God.

** I have read that due to a quirk in Gregorian chant not present in Byzantine or Syriac chant, there is also a ninth mode that is available, but I lack the musical training to verify or explain it. When it comes to ecclesiastical music, I am a consumer, one blessed with diverse taste for all forms of traditional music and an intense loathing of praise and worship and Christian rock music; I believe that no Christian minister should ever preach within half a klik (500 meters or about 1/4 of a mile), of an electric guitar and drum kit, and I also agree with James Bond in Goldfinger that listening to the Beatles without ear protection is on a par with drinking warm champagne).

By the way, that guy who in another thread got on my case for challenging his view that all entertainment is inherently sinful and that music is inherently idolatrous (?) will really get upset if he sees this thread I reckon...
 
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The Liturgist

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I don’t know specifics of PCA and OPC. Here is the PCA constitution. https://www.pcaac.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/BCO-2019-with-bookmarks-for-website-1.pdf It has details on the communion service, though I hope it’s not the complete liturgy. I found this example online. http://ascensionpc.org/docs/liturgies/20210314.pdf It’s a pretty truncated liturgy. Note that they have open communion. The constitution seems to allow it, depending upon how you understand evangelical church. I was surprised, since I had always heard that they were very limited in who they allow.

The main concern I have with the PCA, OPC and SBC is they are allowing what I consider to be a dangerous psuedo-denomination, 9Marks, to operate in their denominations. 9Marks has a reputation for abusive “church discipline”, and all 9Marks churches are connected via databases, so if you offend the pastor at Capitol Hill Baptist Church in Washington DC and then attempt to join a Presbyterian church in Alexandria or Richmond that is also affiliated with 9Marks, or a non-denominational Calvinist megachurch, your record from Capitol Hill will follow you around. This subverts the systems the SBC, PCA and OPC have in place to hold ministers to account. Indeed, if Tchividian, who in one of the great errors of ministerial appointment in the history of Western Christianity was selected to replace Dr. James Kennedy at Coral Ridge after Dr. Kennedy suffered a heart attack from which he never fully recovered, in 2007, shortly after delivering his final sermon, a beautiful Christmas Eve sermon, and died at the end of that summer, had been affiliated with 9Marks, the persecution of Dr. Kennedy’s daughter, the organist, and the classical music community Dr. Kennedy had assembled at Coral Ridge, basically forcing them to leave the church when they objected to his introduction of praise and worship music, and worship in the gymnasium of a local high school, would have gone unchecked, because 9Marks as a system would have interfered with the appeals and disciplinary process that the exiled former members of Coral Ridge were able to use to contact the local presbytery, which subsequently took action to reprimand Tchvidian and restore the members including the daughter, to her father’s church. People might have been afraid to complain, because 9Marks basically lets one pastor ban a parishioner from hundreds of churches.

The website Wartburg Watch, run by a duo of amusing women, covers 9 Marks. 9 Marks has also said some really horrible things about Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Christians in the Middle East, which exceed any of the flamewars we see in General Theology.

I feel like the PCA, OPC and SBC should ban their congregations from affiliating with 9Marks. I am preparing for a discernment process with CCCC, the main conservative Congregational denomination, and one of the things on my checklist is whether or not they allow denominations to belong to 9Marks, and if so, how prevalent it is.
 
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hedrick

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One interesting thing about the last 100 years is the slow dissolving of the separate Protestant traditions, and the slow convergence to generic evangelicalism and mainline Christianity. I had thought that the conservative confessional churches would be the most likely to resist this, but it sounds like the end may be starting for them, too.
 
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As a Psalti @GreekOrthodox do you do much chanting?

One final argument you might be horrified by, and I am certain it would horrify my friends at the Greek Orthodox monastery of Elder Ephrem (memory eternal) in Florence, AZ, called St. Anthony’s, which is not far from a Coptic St. Anthony’s, and then in Egypt is the original Coptic St. Anthony’s, where if I ever do become a monk, that would be one monastery I might like - those excellent singers of Byzantine Chant, Capella Romana, have also massively piqued my curiosity about modern Greek Orthodox music through their recordings of Peter Michaelides (memory eternal) and Tikey Zes (who I believe reposed in the 90s), and I really want to hear more contemporary Greek Orthodox music. I have found recently a treasure trove of contemporary Romanian music, which being derived from Byzantine chant but embracing four part harmony, has a similar sound.

Although I've been singing for choirs off and on prior to becoming Orthodox in 2001, I was used to Lutheran hymns and the Lutheran Hymnal with its Anglican plainchant style. I had only been chrismated for about a month (by +Kallistos Ware) when I showed up early for the Descent service on Good Friday. My priest (who was from Athens and imagine a moderate Greek accent) said, "Brian, you're the only one here, you'll be chanting." uhhhh.... saywhatnow?

I started to pick up some of the modes from one of my fellow chanters who was from Thessalonica.

When I attended Holy Cross in 2006, my real education began, as my instructor was Photios Ketsetzis, who is one of the most knowledgeable Byzantine chanters in the world.

When I moved to Virginia in 2017, I started up pretty much full-time as a chanter at my church. I'll have to get a decent recording sometime.

My instructor at Holy Cross Photios Ketsetzis

 
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One interesting thing about the last 100 years is the slow dissolving of the separate Protestant traditions, and the slow convergence to generic evangelicalism and mainline Christianity. I had thought that the conservative confessional churches would be the most likely to resist this, but it sounds like the end may be starting for them, too.

I think you are somewhat misinterpreting the nature of 9Marks. It’s specific to Calvinist churches, and the backers of it include Southern Baptists, non-denominational entities, and some clergy in the PCA and OPC. The SBC is known for exercising fairly minimal control over its constituent congregations provided some basics are met. What surprises me is that the PCA and OPC tolerate 9Marks.

In terms of the traditional confessing Protestant churches, there is almost nothing in common between an SBC parish of a particularly low church, Calvinist orientation, which uses praise and worship music, and a high church LCMS parish like the one attended by our friend @MarkRohfrietsch ; the latter has much more in common with an Eastern Orthodox parish, theologically and liturgically. The only commonality is both have congregational polity. But then, you have the Continuing Anglo Catholic provinces, which turn all thus on its head; the Anglican Province of Christ the King, for example, which is even more like an Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholic parish. But both the LCMS and APCK parishes in this equation value their Catholicity, with the LCMS parish considering itself Evangelical Catholic, and the APCK parish considering itself Anglican Catholic. And of course the Eastern Orthodox church considers itself to be both Roman and Catholic, because the state church of the Eastern Roman Empire was the Orthodox church after the schism in 1054, by which time the Western Empire had been gone for 500 or 600 years (depending on how one interprets those periods of time, such as under Theodosius and Justinian, where the Western Empire or its former territory, in particular, Old Rome, was ruled by New Rome (Constantinople). Whereas the hypothetical 9Marks SBC parish with its praise band is likely the sort of church where the word Catholic in the creed js replaced with Universal, to avoid any possible confusion.

What I see transpiring is increased unity of the liturgically traditional magisterial Protestant churches, which will become increasingly different from the kind of Radical Reformation or Restorationist church with a rock band. I believe contemporary praise and worship services distort the meaning of what worship is and are theologically harmful; while non denominational megachurches in the Evangelical and Calvinist traditions, as well as denominations like the Calvary Chapel, can pull off worship services with such bands that will attract a definite demographic, when the mainline Protestant churches do it, it just annoys their existing congregation, and they lack the resources to do the kind of musical performance associated with megachurches and smaller contemporary worship focused denominations.

Which is a shame; if Rev. Chuck Smith, with his admirable Christocentric theology, had embraced traditional liturgical worship following in the footsteps of Martin Luther, I could see myself a member of the Calvary Chapel.
 
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Albion

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I want to thank you for your kind words @Albion regarding the post, and I eagerly await your reply.
Hello again. And no, I haven't forgotten my promise to return to this subject. LOL

We need to recognize that there were many objections to the 1979 BCP, some of which were really widely discussed, but others of which probably gave offense mainly to seminary professors and such.That said, here are some of them.

The 1979 Book of Common Prayer isn't really a book of Common Prayer. That used to be considered a remarkable characteristic of Anglicanism (a range of beliefs tolerated but all the people, High Churchmen or Low, Anglo-Catholic or Evangelical, etc. brought together when worshipping). TEC chose not to label it a book of alternative services, even though that is how other provinces of the Anglican Communion titled their own revisions.

It isn't a continuation of the historic books of Common Prayer in format, either, making it more like a World Almanac for things Anglican. The user, so the complaint went, has to switch back and forth repeatedly during the liturgy to find the correct prayer or etc. within each, even after he's selected the correct service from the six different liturgical settings that are available. The 1979 book is over 1000 pages long; the 1928 only 611.

The language is often homely (the same complaint that was made against the new RC Mass). The historic BCP was renowned for the beauty of its wording. Some sections of the 1979 book utilize "inclusive language' as well, thus satisfying various pressure groups.

There are a number of doctrinal changes, too. Once again, some of these were thought to be very important by the critics while others were much less controversial. Baptism was probably the most often discussed. In the 1928 book, the work of Baptism is to be accompanied by proper catechesis, then First Communion, and Confirmation. In the 1979, Baptism is complete in itself.

The language relating to the Trinity is softened and the characterizations of God are changed from righteous, holy, and forgiving, to something closer to nurturing and permissive.

In addition, the church calendar, the lectionary, and the Catechism are all changed.
 
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