Liturgical Prayers

[Adammi]

Do any of you use any type of liturgical prayers in your private devotions or even in church? Even if you just pray the psalms or other parts of scripture?

 

[Father Rick]

Do any of you use any type of liturgical prayers in your private devotions or even in church? Even if you just pray the psalms or other parts of scripture?

LOL...

Well, since I'm a priest you could definitely say I use liturgical prayers. All the time, actually. That doesn't mean every prayer I pray is liturgical but many of them are so engrained in me that sometimes they are the most natural response to what I am sensing from God-- much like a favorite song or worship chorus.

 

[Hisgirl]

Do any of you use any type of liturgical prayers in your private devotions or even in church? Even if you just pray the psalms or other parts of scripture?

I pray the psalms quite a bit...especially in troubled times. Sitting on the floor with my Bible turned to a favorite psalm, and crying out to the Lord through David's words is what started my 'love affair' with the Word. It helps, especially when you don't know what to pray.

Be blessed
Hisgirl

 

[Trish1947]

I find alot in Psalms that seems to fit what I'm wanting to pray, and sometimes when I just seem to be floundering, I pray the Lords prayer. It seems like when I do, it brings fresh understanding of what it means.

 

[adamdavid]

haha... liturgy at a vineyard... that'd be... interesting...

In my own personal devotions, though, I have an anglican rosary that I use every now and again... I find the repetition to be incredibly relaxing and often when I'm really stressed out, that's where I find peace... and I've found that having something physical like a rosary in my hands and interacting with it as I pray makes it much easier to stay focused, something I often have trouble with otherwise

peace...
ad

 

[Angel*Eyes]

Sometimes I pray using psalms and other scriptures. I have a book that deals with praying with scripture. Some of the scriptures in the old and new testament are divided into different categories like prayers for renewal, prayers for others, etc.

 

[Grl4Christ987]

I do a lot of quoting of Scripture in my prayers, whether it's consider liturgical I dunno.

 

[Hisgirl]

And I'll add...after attending Father Rick's church...this Vineyard girl got to experience a liturgical service....It was really, um..interesting... I kept losing my place and getting confused....but there were these NEAT little pull-out benches and that made it better!

I would imagine it takes some practice to get comfortable speaking at the right time....but on top of all that...we had an AWESOME sermon!! Father Rick really nailed it with his word for the evening...made the whole trip worthwhile!!

Be blessed
Hisgirl

 

[BarbB]

I was saved praying "23rd Psalm" and The Lord's Prayer. By doing so, I concentrated on "your will be done" and when the time came, I was able to turn to the Lord for comfort.

I love the Anglican Liturgy. And it's easy to lose your place if you're not used to it! But what affected me most was the Associate Priest speaking of those who were so old or sick and near the end of their lives. They couldn't speak, but would move their lips to the Liturgy! Wow. Need I say more?

I wish I could have heard Father Rick's message. Hopefully there'll be a get together during the fall-spring months!

 

[Asaph]

Yes, liturgical prayers are the answer to everything. But they must be done just right. You know, liturgically.


If you don't, the demons will get you. If you don't do just the right thing then you blew it and oh my god, your soul is at risk.

For God's sake don't try this at home. You are not a professional, please, oh please don't try this prayer thing at home. Oh my God, what if you should get a word wrong? You could end up in hell with all the other speach challenged demons.

OH I'm so scared!!!!!

How can I stop this..........how can I stop this?

Does the bible say I should be so upset?

Asaph

 

[Father Rick]

And I'll add...after attending Father Rick's church...this Vineyard girl got to experience a liturgical service....It was really, um..interesting... I kept losing my place and getting confused....but there were these NEAT little pull-out benches and that made it better!

LOL... she's referring to the kneelers...

 

[KleinerApfel]

Liturgy can give a framework when other things are unfamiliar, it can inspire us to move off beyond it - a launching place for further prayers and worship. It can be a rope to cling to when I am unable to weave my own words together.

Last night in a new place, I found the familiar liturgy safe and reassuring when I was afraid. Since it is based on the bible, there is no problem using it, so long as we remember to move beyond it too.

I have just received a quite awesome blessing from the Holy Spirit, through a service using an interweaving of scripture, liturgy, freely flowing non-liturgical prayer, and a sermon delivered with the wisdom, compasssion and power of the Spirit.

For me it brought a lot of things together and made my picture more complete. I can't really explain any better than that, and I know it's inadequate, but there it is. Liturgy is a useful part of what many of us do, and can be a blessing.

God bless, love Sue

 

[Father Rick]

Liturgy can give a framework when other things are unfamiliar, it can inspire us to move off beyond it - a launching place for further prayers and worship. It can be a rope to cling to when I am unable to weave my own words together.

That's probably the best way I've ever heard to describe it.

 

[we5frogs]

Coming from a liturgical background, I love the prayers I grew up with. As someone else here said, they are comforting in their familiarity. I use them often, in whole and sometimes even in part.

That said, I must admit that it is much easier to find myself distracted during liturgical prayer, as my mind can drift without interrupting the words I am saying.

So, my private prayers are a combination of liturgical prayer and open conversation with Jesus.

At the church I attend now, we do not have any liturgical prayer at all. I like this format for services, as it allows the prayers to address the individual needs and praises that we have at the time, and makes it a much more personal experience for those we worship with.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Yes, the Messianic synagogue I attend uses liturgical prayers and songs. It's really kinda cool that the songs we sing are from the time of Moses.

 

[Simon_Templar]

Quaffer,

Its an interesting point that the church's traditional liturgical worship derived in a significant part from the model of Jewish synagogue worship that was in use at the time of the first century church.

That brings out an interesting point as well... virtually every form of worship service that God has perscribed through the bible is liturgical in nature.

Most charismatic/non denom types think that liturgy was invented by the church to try and control the service. On the contrary, the word liturgy actually comes from a greek compound word meaning roughly "the work of the people" and the word is actually used in the bible in acts chapter 19 verse 2. In this verse the word Leitourgia is translated "ministered" it says the people were all together "ministering" unto the Lord. The concept behind the liturgy is to involve the congregation actively in ministering to God.

This is a concept somewhat lost in the church background I grew up in. The more prevalent idea is that we come together to worship God in a way that fulfills us, so that God can minister to us. The concept of liturgy was more God-centric.. the people came together to minister to God, to worship God, and when they came to God with that attitude, he met their needs.

There is a danger in believing that we can come to God on our terms, and worship him how we see fit. There is also danger in worshiping for self gratification.

Now, liturgy isn't perfect either. Liturgical systems make it easy for people to go on auto pilot and not invest themselves personaly in their worship of God. Thats not good either. And there certainly are some churches that get way too uptight about following exact liturgical forms.

From my study of scripture and the early church I do believe that there is a fairly general form of liturgy that should be followed by all churches, but that there is also great freedom within that form for different cultural and personal expression. I believe God intended the church to be a spectrum of light, a rainbow (despite the modern negative conotations) showing forth the variety of his wisdom and creativity... the beauty of different cultures all joined in unity, without sacrificing the distinctives that God gave to each.

I believe that the following things should be a part of the form of each church service
Communion

Scripture reading (more than a few verses in the sermon)

Confession of sins (I'm not saying the required private confession etc but at least a general confession by the congregation)

songs (hymns and spiritual songs)

teaching (by the elder(s))

I think there should be room made for operation of corperate gifts of the Spirit such as prophecy etc tongues, if they are interpeted.

I also think it is a good idea to recite at least one of the creeds (nicean, apostles, or athanasian) of the faith, as they are very good guides for people to memorize about the core doctrines of our faith.

guidelines and order are necessary in a service, but that doesn't mean you can't have freedom either. In fact.. for true freedom, order and guidelines are necessary

 

[Asaph]

Liturgy in all it's form is designed solely for the purpose of removing and replacing faith.

Asaph

 

[Father Rick]

Liturgy in all it's form is designed solely for the purpose of removing and replacing faith.

Asaph

Uhhh... you do know that 90% or more of the liturgy used in any sacramental church is simply quoting scripture. Last I heard, "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word..."

Also, the majority of worship recorded in Scripture is liturgical (both Old and New Testaments). Many of the Psalms were written to be chanted liturgically, with a cantor calling out a line and the people responding with the next line. The 'schools of the prophets' in the Old Testament learned scripture by chanting them back and forth to one another liturgically. In Revelation, we see responsorial worship. Both Jesus and Paul worshipped in Synagogues--which means they used liturgy. The command of God was that "you will teach your children saying..." as God Himself gave liturgy to His people.

Liturgy was NEVER for replacing faith, but rather as an efficient means of teaching it. If you ask those who are not accustomed to liturgy what they believe you usually get an "uhh..." followed by either a very short fluffy answer or a long rambling answer that may or may not cover half that concepts of Scripture. Those from a liturgical background will respond "

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.



We believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father.
With the Father and the Son
he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. AMEN."


We know what we believe-- because we rehearse what we believe on a regular basis. We quote the scriptures to one another. We pray for one another. What portion of this replaces faith?

 

[churchlady]

Uhhh... you do know that 90% or more of the liturgy used in any sacramental church is simply quoting scripture. Last I heard, "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word..."

Also, the majority of worship recorded in Scripture is liturgical (both Old and New Testaments). Many of the Psalms were written to be chanted liturgically, with a cantor calling out a line and the people responding with the next line. The 'schools of the prophets' in the Old Testament learned scripture by chanting them back and forth to one another liturgically. In Revelation, we see responsorial worship. Both Jesus and Paul worshipped in Synagogues--which means they used liturgy. The command of God was that "you will teach your children saying..." as God Himself gave liturgy to His people.

Liturgy was NEVER for replacing faith, but rather as an efficient means of teaching it. If you ask those who are not accustomed to liturgy what they believe you usually get an "uhh..." followed by either a very short fluffy answer or a long rambling answer that may or may not cover half that concepts of Scripture. Those from a liturgical background will respond "

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.



We believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father.
With the Father and the Son
he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. AMEN."


We know what we believe-- because we rehearse what we believe on a regular basis. We quote the scriptures to one another. We pray for one another. What portion of this replaces faith?

Well said, Father Rick!

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Simon,

You've pretty much described one of the things that drew me (as well as God Himself) to the Messianic movement. The services are God centered vs people centered. Even the churches without liturgy can go into "auto-pilot" by doing the same songs the same way every week. The order of worship can end up being auto pilot even in wildness.

I'm still not quite fond of the liturgy but yet it is putting God at the center of the service. As you say, it's doing what is pleasing to Him over what is pleasing to us.

As Father Rick pointed out the majority of litergy, at least what I've seen is scripture. Speaking back to God what He said. Is that not what many churches, especially the Charismatic and the WOF say "they" do?

And Asaph, since God is the originator of liturgy are you saying He designed it to remove and replace our faith? Or is that what many churches have done by replacing liturgy (scripture songs and prayers) with words that those who are hearing like better? Songs that are geared more to the liking of the one singing over the ONE being sang to?

Of course we only start with liturgy. From the liturgy of speaking Gods word back to Him, we move on into the praise and worship that is heard in most Charismatic churches. If anything, the liturgy has replaced the songs about me and my feelings with songs about God and Who He is.