Literal (? or .)

[Osanya]

I am new to this site, but in my few posts I think it has been easy to see that I have some strong opinions about the creation/evolution debate. I have spent a lot of time discussing and reading about evolution, creationism, science and scripture and it seems to me that the crux of the argument for many creationists is that they feel it necessary - crucial even - that none of the bible should be called into question or disproved. For Christian evolutionists, the issue is simple. The Genesis account of creation is a myth, true in its attempt to teach the reader the nature of relationship between humans, God and the rest of the natural world; it was never intended to be a factual account of the earth's origins. For creationists, it seems to me that if we are to accept this reading of Genesis all of scripture is then called into question, thus discrediting the gospels and Jesus' ministry and divinity. This slippery slope argument is used quite often by many people on this board and popular YEC sites like Dr. Dino and AIG.

My question is this: What is so harmful about calling scripture into question? Isn't all scripture up for questioning anyhow? What is to stop us from questioning any book of the bible? The early church did it. The reformationists did it. Why can't we?

It is my opinion that all scripture is very useful and profitable. But, I also question everything I read, including the bible. After all, if it's true it will stand up under scrutiny. If it's not true, then it will disappear with time, be it the bible or evolution or any other teaching.

 

[lithium.]

You are completely right if in time science finds out that evolution is false or something else it will be thrown out.

 

[paulewog]

The entire Bible has been here about 2000 years, the Old Testmanent for longer than that. It's still here even though many, many people have tried to get rid of it (whether through burnings or whatever).

Darwin's theory(ies) of evolution have only been around for 150 years.

 

[LouisBooth]

"You are completely right if in time science finds out that evolution is false or something else it will be thrown out.
"

and I think it will, just give it time

 

[Osanya]

So, shouldn't creationists be advocating research in evolution?

 

[lithium.]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"You are completely right if in time science finds out that evolution is false or something else it will be thrown out.
"

and I think it will, just give it time

that wouldn't mean the bible is right if it gets thrown out that only means that theory is wrong.

 

[paulewog]

Who said we don't?

Of course, since it isn't true, research in evolution itself would be worthless. Archaelogic evidence and such, I don't think creationists are at all against that.

"Dating" the finds, that I don't think works.

 

[lithium.]

But I really don't think the theory will ever be thrown out christians might want it thrown out but I just don't ever see it happening.

 

[Cantuar]

If the present theory of evolution ever does get thrown out, it'll be because observations have been made that can't be explained by it, even if it's reworked. It'll be replaced by another theory that explains both the new obwervations and all the old ones that were also explained by the old theory. That new theory will still be a scientific one, so it won't include "God did it" as an option because supernatural causes are outside the parameters of science. Maybe fundamentalists will dislike it even mroe than the present theory, who knows?

 

[lithium.]

Originally posted by Cantuar
If the present theory of evolution ever does get thrown out, it'll be because observations have been made that can't be explained by it, even if it's reworked. It'll be replaced by another theory that explains both the new obwervations and all the old ones that were also explained by the old theory. That new theory will still be a scientific one, so it won't include "God did it" as an option because supernatural causes are outside the parameters of science. Maybe fundamentalists will dislike it even mroe than the present theory, who knows?

Yep you are completely right. There will never be a theory GOD DIDIT. The theory will still have to be scientific.

 

[Osanya]

Of course, since it isn't true, research in evolution itself would be worthless.

That's a bad stance. Even if evolution isn't true, it still needs to be investigated. Studies will either strengthen, weaken or revise the current theory. Actually, I'm working on a debunking a theory right now in my lab. I do tests and see if what other people have written is true or not. If I prove they are wrong, I get published. So, it seems to me that no matter what you think is the truth or not, you still should encourage education and research in biological evolution, creationist or not. The more we know about how life works, the better conclusions and models we can come up with.

 

[Morat]

  Not to mention, of course, that even being wrong leads to new avenues of research and new ideas.

 

 

[paulewog]

I meant research specifically in evolution. If you already know it's not true, why should you research it? What's left to research? hehe. It's hard to describe what I'm thinking at the moment, maybe I'll try later when I don't have to leave in 10 minutes

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Originally posted by paulewog
What's left to research?

 

[Help-me-learn]

Evolution being proven wrong doesn't prove creation right. Just means for people to look in a different area.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Originally posted by paulewog
The entire Bible has been here about 2000 years, the Old Testmanent for longer than that. It's still here even though many, many people have tried to get rid of it (whether through burnings or whatever).

Darwin's theory(ies) of evolution have only been around for 150 years.

What's your point? Older ideas tend to be more true? Maybe we were a little hasty to toss out that whole "flat Earth" thing, then.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Originally posted by Nathan Poe
What's your point? Older ideas tend to be more true? Maybe we were a little hasty to toss out that whole "flat Earth" thing, then.

Don't forget geocentrism, too

 

[sulphur]

Louis you are very astute.When do we throw the bible out?

 

[LouisBooth]

"Louis you are very astute.When do we throw the bible out?"

I'm not sure I understand the question in its current context....you never throw it out.

 

[FordPrefect]

Originally posted by paulewog
The entire Bible has been here about 2000 years, the Old Testmanent for longer than that. It's still here even though many, many people have tried to get rid of it (whether through burnings or whatever).

Darwin's theory(ies) of evolution have only been around for 150 years.

And the Sumerian writings have been here for at least 1000 years more than the OT... and primitive cave art has been around for another 17000+ years...

BTW, AFAIUI Darwin did not come up with evolution, but an explanation of a potential mechanism of evolution. The evidence for evolution was there long before he suggested Natural Selection and variation. There were theories of Spontaneous Generation, which were rejected due to the lack of evidence to support them.