Limited vs unlimited atonement?

[corinth77777]

Where does Scripture say anything about recipients of eternal life having the ability to "do anything" they wish with the gift. It is life itself that He gives. Can eternal life be killed? That would deny the very meaning of "eternal", right?

So, what He gives believers is God's life, which is eternal. So there is NOTHING any recipient can do that removes or eliminates or kills that life.

Jesus was clear: recipients of eternal life will NEVER PERISH. How is that not a guarantee of eternal security?


Glad that you bring up "our inneritance". Let's examine what Scripture says about "our inheritance" in Eph 1;
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

So, who are those who are sealed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit? Those "having believed". v.13

So, what is the Holy Spirit described as in v.14? A deposit for "our inheritance".

So, what does this deposit do? GUARANTEES "our inheritance".

So, WHEN does this guarantee occur? The redemption of those who are God's possession: ie, those sealed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit.

Another clear statement of eternal security.


1. How can this verse be about getting rid of our inheritance when the Bible says it is GUARANTEED for the day of redemption?

2. Further, how can any recipient of eternal life perish, since Jesus Himself said that recipients of eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH?


I repeat the 2 questions above.

Life eternal is the quality of life that stems from being connected to God. So it begins now. This is regeneration ...passing from a dead life from sin to Life in the kingdom. His presence is a real factor. He has tranferred us from darkness into the kingdom of His beloved son..
Reguarding Ephesians 1;13

I have 2 thoughts....Does it guarantee your inheritance if you hold fast to it and because God's power within one who has stayed connected will produce fruit.

Or Can you get all the way to redemption, if having did nothing with the gift? And God says on that Day depart from me I never knew you?
Isn't important to heed to correction?
Did Moses see the promise land, yet not go in?

So Does it guarantee inheritance of the saints as long as you remain in Christ.
Isn't This[in christ] where no one can pluck you out of His hand. Isn't this where love is found because one obeys the son..

Just some questions....
"With the view to redemption"
What allows one to have a view?
Staying close to Jesus...a relationship
Life eternal is to know God and Jesus.
It begins now.

In my opinion it's a possibility one can go to heaven, if they merely believe who He is...Its up to God....but why have a possibility when...He says make your call and elect sure, or work out your salvation...Theses are ways in which we know we have Life...Because we strive to live up to it.
Part of salvation is our transformation into the image of Christ.
Be he transformed by the renewing of the mind.
So the question is when Abraham believed God how was it credited as or [toward] righteousness? What did it mean for Him to believe since He is the father of all that would have faith?

Did He maintain that righteous status?
For it's when man look to God as the source of life that they have a quality of life that will stem from God.
We must stay connected to God as the flowers and every living thing needs the Sun to sustain life.

Remain in me and I in you and ye shall bring forth fruit, without me you can do nothing. So this means we do it with Him. Dying on the cross...for our sins was the Gift God gave to men. And Jesus became the Source of salvation for all who believe.
So we cannot earn the source, but we do labor to enter His rest. For if any man follows Him He must take up His cross. So He didn't die so we didn't have to die. He died so we would join Him on the cross....."die to this world"
So we can [live] through Him. Have the quality of life. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil. [sin and death] So we must stop living as the devil has power. And live through the source.


I asked the question should they heed correction...

People who accept discipline are on the pathway to life, but those who ignore correction will go astray.
NLT


Whoever heeds instruction is on the path to life, but he who rejects reproof leads others astray.
ESV


He is on the path of life who heeds instruction, But he who ignores reproof goes astray.
NASB


He is in the way of life that keepeth instruction: but he that refuseth reproof erreth.
KJB

 

[JLB777]

What we receive at the end of our lives is eternity itself.

Jesus told us WHEN one receives the gift of eternal life; WHEN one believes in Him, in John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

What is clear is that those who believe HAVE eternal life. That means they RECEIVE it WHEN they FIRST believed.

So, in John 10:28, Jesus promised that recipients of eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH.
"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."

There are NO CONDITIONS for recipients of eternal life for the promise of never perishing.

Yet, your opinion is that there ARE conditions to be met, and that some recipients of eternal life MAY perish.

Which is totally AGAINST what Jesus promised.

Your views are on the wrong side of Scripture.

We have God's eternal life in us right now. And we will experience eternity itself when we die physically.

Or, as Paul said it, "face to face with the Lord".

There is nothing in this post that can be refuted by Scripture. But everything can be denied. That is your choice.

Here is what Jesus promised.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


Eternal life is promised to faithful sheep, who hear His Voice, and follow Him, and know Him.


This will receive eternal life as the end result of following Him.

The condition:

• hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

The result:

And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.


This verse is clear, as well as what Jesus said in John 5:24-29

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29

• all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—
• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
• and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

As well as Matthew 19:29


29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29


Eternal life is what we inherit.



JLB

 

[JLB777]

More untruth from your posts. I was directly dealing with Jesus' words in John 5:24 and John 10:28.


Let's call it what it actually is: Jesus' PROMISE. Or let's call it His GUARANTEE of eternal security.

If my posts reflect "man's opinion", they should be easily refuted from Scripture.

Yet, you've regularly failed to refute anything in them.

No scripture here, just more of your opinion, which is all you post, in the face of the many scriptures and the truths those scriptures teach us.

John 5 and John 10 -

Here is what Jesus promised.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


Eternal life is promised to faithful sheep, who hear His Voice, and follow Him, and know Him.


This will receive eternal life as the end result of following Him.

The condition:

• hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

The result:

And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.


This verse is clear, as well as what Jesus said in John 5:24-29

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29

• all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—
• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
• and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

As well as Matthew 19:29


29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29


Eternal life is what we inherit.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

ITs possible, that Eternal life is speaking about the quality of life that come forth from God.
in John...

No, that's not possible. Jesus was speaking about God's life, which is eternal, and given to those who believe in Jesus for it. And recipients of eternal life will never perish. Said Jesus, John 10:28.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Here is what Jesus promised.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


Eternal life is promised to faithful sheep, who hear His Voice, and follow Him, and know Him.

We already know from John 5:24 that those who believe HAVE eternal life. So the gift of eternal life is given WHEN one FIRST believes.
" “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

This verse is a promise of eternal security, obviously.

They HAVE eternal life, they WILL NOT be judged, and they HAVE CROSSED over from death to life. And that new life is eternal, which cannot die.

Then Jesus promised recipients of eternal life that they WILL NEVER PERISH in John 10:28.

The point is that He gave no conditions after receiving the gift for never perishing.

Your theories include conditions in order to never perish. Unlike what Jesus said.

 

[FreeGrace2]

From my post:
"I was directly dealing with Jesus' words in John 5:24 and John 10:28."

No scripture here, just more of your opinion, which is all you post, in the face of the many scriptures and the truths those scriptures teach us.

Obviously, neither John 5:24 or 10:28 are considered "Scripture" to you. Shameful.

Here is what Jesus promised.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

Right. He promised recipients of eternal life that they WILL NEVER PERISH.

Why aren't you willing to see the obvious; that the condition for never perishing is found in RECEPTION of eternal life, not what we do AFTER receiving eternal life?

v.27 doesn't undo the promise in v.28, as you're trying to claim.

Jesus guaranteed eternal security by His promise of who WILL NEVER PERISH. The promise is to RECIPIENTS of eternal life.

So, you see, (or not), we are secure because of what Jesus has done for EVERY BELIEVER. It doesn't depend on how the believer lives their lives, which I know irks your camp greatly. But that's grace. Get over it, or just believe it.

 

[JLB777]

From my post:
"I was directly dealing with Jesus' words in John 5:24 and John 10:28."

No scripture here, just a scripture reference with your words.

Obviously, neither John 5:24 or 10:28 are considered "Scripture" to you. Shameful.

No scripture here, just a scripture reference with your words.

We already know from John 5:24 that those who believe HAVE eternal life. So the gift of eternal life is given WHEN one FIRST believes.
" “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

• he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life.

The condition for having eternal life: hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me


As long as these conditions are met, then a person has eternal life, which is defined by Jesus himself.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

Here is the condition for knowing God:

• Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 1 John 2:3
• He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29

• all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—
• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
• and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Believe = trust, commit and obey.


Those who hear His voice and trust commit and obey Him, have eternal life.


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

• “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? Luke 6:44

JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

No scripture here, just a scripture reference with your words.



No scripture here, just a scripture reference with your words.

• he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life.

The condition for having eternal life: hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me


As long as these conditions are met, then a person has eternal life, which is defined by Jesus himself.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

Here is the condition for knowing God:

• Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 1 John 2:3
• He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29

• all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—
• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
• and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Believe = trust, commit and obey.


Those who hear His voice and trust commit and obey Him, have eternal life.


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

• “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? Luke 6:44

JLB

Jesus was quite clear about what He promised and to whom He promised.

He promised that recipients of eternal life will never perish. In John 10:28

If His promise either wasn't to recipients of eternal life, or that there were conditions beyond reception of eternal life, please advise.

But the verse is clear enough for anyone to see that Jesus taught eternal security from the moment of initial faith. That comes from John 5:24 where Jesus said that those who believe have eternal life.

That means that at the moment of initial faith in Christ, they have eternal life.

So, being recipients of eternal life from the moment of initial faith, Jesus promises that they will never perish.

So, why should anyone believe anything different than what Jesus promised recipients of eternal life?

How in the world could any recipient of eternal life ever perish when Jesus said they would NEVER PERISH?

How does one get from NEVER PERISH to EVER PERISH?

The claim that a saved person can perish is directly against the clear promise of Jesus.

 

[Butch5]

Hi Fish14, we know that no one can come to Christ unless they are first "drawn" by His Father .. John 6:44.

We also know that ALL who the Father draws and gives to His Son will come to Him, and that NONE of these will be lost/all will be raised to eternal life .. John 6:37-40.

Therefore, if ALL (meaning literally everyone who has ever lived) are "drawn" by the Father, then ALL will necessarily be saved, yes?

This would mean the Atonement is UN-limited in the most universal sense, of course. However, if you do not believe the Atonement is Universal (I do not), that can only mean one thing, that God draws only some of us, and that the Atonement is therefore, "particular" or "limited" as a result.

Thanks!

Yours and His,
David

“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and ... of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day" ~John 6:37-40

t Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day" ~John 6:44​

David, that passage in John 6 was particular to that time. While Jesus was on earth the Father was giving Him certain men. After all, He had to establish the faith. However, Jesus later said, 'if I am lifted up I will draw all men.' This shows that at that time the drawing would not only involve all but would change from the Father to the Son. Also, that we know that the drawing of John 6 was a limited event can be seen in John 17 when Jesus prays to the Father for, 'those you have have given me'. Note also that none of the apostles talk about people being given to Christ.

 

[corinth77777]

No, that's not possible. Jesus was speaking about God's life, which is eternal, and given to those who believe in Jesus for it. And recipients of eternal life will never perish. Said Jesus, John 10:28.

Well for a fact...We know that the quality of life stems from being
connected to God
Its called abundant life...And the term for life is "zoe" which no one can argue.
Look it up for yourself then answer. It means vibrant full of life....
This is the outcome of being connected that allows you to know that you do have Life....God wants us to know what we have....and we know when we keep his commands....And No, we don't obey His command by trying to obey...but being transformed by the renewing of the mind..[faith working through love] what faith? There is faith found in Christ...and There is no greater love than a man lay His life down.

What we know and believe is what will affects our behavior.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
" Jesus was speaking about God's life, which is eternal, and given to those who believe in Jesus for it. And recipients of eternal life will never perish. Said Jesus, John 10:28."

Well for a fact...We know that the quality of life stems from being
connected to God

What I said is also fact. Recipients of eternal life will never perish (John 10:28). Once receives eternal life WHEN one believes in Christ (John 5:24).

 

[corinth77777]

Life eternal is the quality of life that stems from being connected to God. So it begins now. This is regeneration ...passing from a dead life from sin to Life in the kingdom. His presence is a real factor. He has tranferred us from darkness into the kingdom of His beloved son..
Reguarding Ephesians 1;13

I have 2 thoughts....Does it guarantee your inheritance if you hold fast to it and because God's power within one who has stayed connected will produce fruit.

Or Can you get all the way to redemption, if having did nothing with the gift? And God says on that Day depart from me I never knew you?
Isn't important to heed to correction?
Did Moses see the promise land, yet not go in?

So Does it guarantee inheritance of the saints as long as you remain in Christ.
Isn't This[in christ] where no one can pluck you out of His hand. Isn't this where love is found because one obeys the son..

Just some questions....
"With the view to redemption"
What allows one to have a view?
Staying close to Jesus...a relationship
Life eternal is to know God and Jesus.
It begins now.

In my opinion it's a possibility one can go to heaven, if they merely believe who He is...Its up to God....but why have a possibility when...He says make your call and elect sure, or work out your salvation...Theses are ways in which we know we have Life...Because we strive to live up to it.
Part of salvation is our transformation into the image of Christ.
Be he transformed by the renewing of the mind.
So the question is when Abraham believed God how was it credited as or [toward] righteousness? What did it mean for Him to believe since He is the father of all that would have faith?

Did He maintain that righteous status?
For it's when man look to God as the source of life that they have a quality of life that will stem from God.
We must stay connected to God as the flowers and every living thing needs the Sun to sustain life.

Remain in me and I in you and ye shall bring forth fruit, without me you can do nothing. So this means we do it with Him. Dying on the cross...for our sins was the Gift God gave to men. And Jesus became the Source of salvation for all who believe.
So we cannot earn the source, but we do labor to enter His rest. For if any man follows Him He must take up His cross. So He didn't die so we didn't have to die. He died so we would join Him on the cross....."die to this world"
So we can [live] through Him. Have the quality of life. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil. [sin and death] So we must stop living as the devil has power. And live through the source.


I asked the question should they heed correction...

People who accept discipline are on the pathway to life, but those who ignore correction will go astray.
NLT


Whoever heeds instruction is on the path to life, but he who rejects reproof leads others astray.
ESV


He is on the path of life who heeds instruction, But he who ignores reproof goes astray.
NASB


He is in the way of life that keepeth instruction: but he that refuseth reproof erreth.
KJB

I was just looking at the last passages
And I see it best to stick with KJV.
Because with all that I have come to understand one keeps instruction because He is walking in the steps of Christ.......or that they are synonymous the way of life is to keep instruction. That makes salvation active....[that may mean[and this passage just came to me] we are kept by the power of God through faith[faith that works].... For the power is in Christ and being joined in active duty God keep us. [true or false] It
Seems really how people were kept back in the day....It was the doers of the word that were justified. This now seen as faith working through love.

So what does it mean? "Faith working through Love"....

 

[FreeGrace2]

It was the doers of the word that were justified.

This is not true. Unless by "doers of the word" one means to believe in Jesus Christ.

This now seen as faith working through love.

So what does it mean? "Faith working through Love"....

From Gal 5:6, love motivates or compels many believers to meet their needs of those around them. "Through love" speaks of the motivation behind the faith.

"Faith working through love" is a key progressive sanctification (spiritual growth) truth. This was the aim of Paul's life and ministry. 1 Cor 13

 

[corinth77777]

This is not true. Unless by "doers of the word" one means to believe in Jesus Christ.
Corinth
Romans 2
According to scripture it is....as in the context I wrote it.

And to repeat this is what I wrote, "Seems really how people were kept back in the day....It was the doers of the word that were justified. This now seen as faith working through love."

"For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

For by the same token we establish the law through love.

I'll be back later...to express "faith working through love"



From Gal 5:6, love motivates or compels many believers to meet their needs of those around them. "Through love" speaks of the motivation behind the faith.

"Faith working through love" is a key progressive sanctification (spiritual growth) truth. This was the aim of Paul's life and ministry. 1 Cor 13

My reply in blue

 

[corinth77777]

I was just looking at the last passages
And I see it best to stick with KJV.
Because with all that I have come to understand one keeps instruction because He is walking in the steps of Christ.......or that they are synonymous the way of life is to keep instruction. That makes salvation active....[that may mean[and this passage just came to me] we are kept by the power of God through faith[faith that works].... For the power is in Christ and being joined in active duty God keep us. [true or false] It
Seems really how people were kept back in the day....It was the doers of the word that were justified. This now seen as faith working through love.

So what does it mean? "Faith working through Love"....

Allow me to ramble...and be sure to study for yourself. Not saying I'm perfectly right for there is always something to learn.

So I asked what is "faith working through love" that is apart from circumcision or uncircumcision.
The answer goes hand in hand with...
"Live through the source"
Love is the action of Jesus Christ.
He died and arose..has defeated death.[spiritual death]
Love is God
Love is what ended the law as the source of righteousness. [but notice if they stopped keeping the law...then had they maintain their righteousnes?]
Now the source is Jesus Christ [if one stopped believing Jesus as Lord would they have maintained their righteousness?]
Looking at the law...it is the word of God
Love is that action, so we can say: through Christ....
If any man be in Christ He is a new creation.
So now, one can have the source of salvation and not live up to it.
[is justification all there is to salvation?]
For, When we walk in the spirit the blood cleanses us.
Walk meaning- to obey His command.
Now lets go to the passage "for by grace are ye saved through faith" [whose faith?] the faithfulness of Jesus.
His faithfulness is not of ourselves it is a gift of God.
We are saved through His faithfulness...
"Through" as the entrance of Him being the author. [the channel]
But when are we saved through His faithfulness? And what is it we are saved from?
Well isn't when we walk in the spirit the blood cleanses us?
Well what is the way of the spirit but righteous living. Read Titus 2; 11-12

"2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people. 2:12 It trains us to reject godless ways and worldly desires and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 2:13 as we wait for the happy fulfillment of our hope in the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. 2:14 He gave himself for us to set us free from every kind of lawlessness and to purify for himself a people who are truly his, who are eager to do good.
The Grace found in Christ teaches us what? That we put in no effort for salvation? No...
It teaches us to reject godless ways and worldly desires and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age,
So is grace opposed to effort? No!
Grace is opposed, as Dallas Willard would say, to Earning.
Earning has an attitude that it carries,as boasting and the works are in reference to doing it on our own as when the Law was the way of righteousness through our flesh...
This grace is not effortless...for one must put their trust in Jesus...that's effort.
So what happens when we put our trust in the source of our salvation? And I'm not speaking of merely believeing mentally who He is, but as James says a working faith.
What happens is salvation.
So faith working through love is
We come through love[Jesus the risen] in order to have the working faith of Jesus. He was obedient unto the father even unto death.
So we find here how we establish the law through faith.
The law never disappeared it was fullfilled by Christ. And we also uphold the law through love by love. Love is the expression on the outside of what dwell within. And when we walk in Love through this Grace of God We also uphold the law.

God's law was fullfilled by Christ....And scripture still stands that those who do righteous are righteous.

But it happens by Faith working through Love

 

[FredVB]

a) Jesus died for the sins of the elect. Unbelievers have to go to Hell to pay for their sin.
b) Jesus died for the sins of everyone, except for the unforgivable sin (continued unbelief). Unbelievers go to Hell because of that sin.

All human people, you and I, are guilty of what makes us worthy of suffering in hell. It will never be paid for there, so it's justice that doesn't end. Jesus came that we would repent, and with his payment in his incarnation, up to dying on the cross, any who believe, through him, will not be doomed, to go to hell, but have atonement in him, with new life spiritually, that they can have renewed relationship with Yahweh God with forgiveness and to turn from sinning anymore, and be in bliss with God, in Jesus, forever then. There is election, but believers are told this for their assurance, not for it to be focused on for determining ourselves who the gospel is for. For us we see it should be told to any for them to believe, and all have opportunity, as Yahweh is not willing that any should perish.