Lilith?

[Delphiki]

Who here accepts Lilith as part of the creation myth? Is it mostly those with Jewish backgrounds and/or awareness of her story in the Talmud, or is her existence also hinted at by the differences between Genesis 1 and 2 in the Christian re-writes of the Torah?

 

[ChetSinger]

I think the association of Lilith with Adam didn't take place until the Medieval period. I think she's taken more seriously in Kabbalah and Wicca than in mainstream Judaism and Christianity. Imo, anyway.

 

[juvenissun]

Who here accepts Lilith as part of the creation myth? Is it mostly those with Jewish backgrounds and/or awareness of her story in the Talmud, or is her existence also hinted at by the differences between Genesis 1 and 2 in the Christian re-writes of the Torah?

To have a fairy tale like Lilith is exactly the reason why Jews were punished so hard by God. Rubbish stories are not worthwhile to explore.

 

[Delphiki]

To have a fairy tale like Lilith is exactly the reason why Jews were punished so hard by God. Rubbish stories are not worthwhile to explore.

Not sure how you can reconcile your statement considering the rest of Genesis 1 that you do likely believe is true... But it's a rather humorous and hypocritical statement, as antisemitic as it may be.

You do realize that the Lilith folklore predates the Christian re-write of Genesis, don't you? ... in the Talmud by a few centuries. Christianity merely omits it.

 

[juvenissun]

Not sure how you can reconcile your statement considering the rest of Genesis 1 that you do likely believe is true... But it's a rather humorous and hypocritical statement, as antisemitic as it may be.

You do realize that the Lilith folklore predates the Christian re-write of Genesis, don't you? ... in the Talmud by a few centuries. Christianity merely omits it.

I guess you would be safe to say that the Genesis was rewritten at least 10 times.

In fact, even it was rewritten 100 times at any time, it does not matter at all.

 

[AV1611VET]

I guess you would be safe to say that the Genesis was rewritten at least 10 times.

In fact, even it was rewritten 100 times at any time, it does not matter at all.

Here's one of my points from years ago:

I hope you're kidding, WC, because I'm beginning to suspect now you guys are just doing this for entertainment value.

Anyone knows that if you take a text and translate it days later, then again, and again, etc., that the final text is quite different from the initial one.

It would take a photocopier or its equivalent to keep "noise" from interfering in the translations.

How on earth did one line of Scripture get from 96AD to 1611AD without hardly a "scratch" on it?

 

[morse86]

I searched the entire King James Bible (the word of God) using a full text search (I have it in a database) and I did not find the keyword Lilith.

When you find Lilith in the word of God, go ahead and let us know. Anything else is "vain babblings".

 

[Delphiki]

I searched the entire King James Bible (the word of God) using a full text search (I have it in a database) and I did not find the keyword Lilith.

When you find Lilith in the word of God, go ahead and let us know. Anything else is "vain babblings".

Hey, boy genius... The King James is one of the many re-writes. Lilith's name doesn't appear in the bible, but it does appear in the oral tradition and Babylonian Talmud, which supplement the Torah... this was long before Christians came along to add their own bits to the Torah and call it the bible.

If you read Genesis 1, man and woman are created in the same passage. In Genesis 2, woman is created from man. The modern Christian apologetic for this is usually that Gen 2 simply details the events of Gen 1, however, long before the KJV came along, it was believed that Gen 1 speaks of Lilith's creation as an equal to Adam, so God decided to try again by making Eve, who is lesser than Adam, having been made from his rib instead.

 

[morse86]

Hey, boy genius... The King James is one of the many re-writes. Lilith's name doesn't appear in the bible, but it does appear in the oral tradition and Babylonian Talmud, which supplement the Torah... this was long before Christians came along to add their own bits to the Torah and call it the bible.

If you read Genesis 1, man and woman are created in the same passage. In Genesis 2, woman is created from man. The modern Christian apologetic for this is usually that Gen 2 simply details the events of Gen 1, however, long before the KJV came along, it was believed that Gen 1 speaks of Lilith's creation as an equal to Adam, so God decided to try again by making Eve, who is lesser than Adam, having been made from his rib instead.

Jesus said if you believed Moses, you would've believed Jesus. Anything other is vain babblings.

John 5:46: For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

We find mention of Jesus in the old testament so many times....even in the first book Genesis!

All the old bibles that has been handed down generation after generation (note the bold), is in synch with each other....only the modern bibles and bibles that haven't been handed down are not in synch.

 

[mark kennedy]

Who here accepts Lilith as part of the creation myth? Is it mostly those with Jewish backgrounds and/or awareness of her story in the Talmud, or is her existence also hinted at by the differences between Genesis 1 and 2 in the Christian re-writes of the Torah?

There is no difference between Genesis 1 and 2. That's a modernist distortion of the literary features, prior to atheistic philosophy being twisted into theological language that story was part of mystical Judaism. Bible believing Christians don't accept the Kabbala for many of the same reasons.

 

[mark kennedy]

Hey, boy genius... The King James is one of the many re-writes. Lilith's name doesn't appear in the bible, but it does appear in the oral tradition and Babylonian Talmud, which supplement the Torah... this was long before Christians came along to add their own bits to the Torah and call it the bible.

The Pentateuch was complete before the children of Israel invaded Canaan, late 12th, early 13th century, Babylonian mysticism was an extra-canonical diversion into paganism. The writing prophets started in earnest about the 8th century and essentially closed with Malachi. The Chronicler, probably Ezra contributed the closing pages of canon ended the testimony of OT Scripture in the fifth century without any reference to Babylonian pagan mysticism being needed or allowed.

If you read Genesis 1, man and woman are created in the same passage. In Genesis 2, woman is created from man. The modern Christian apologetic for this is usually that Gen 2 simply details the events of Gen 1, however, long before the KJV came along, it was believed that Gen 1 speaks of Lilith's creation as an equal to Adam, so God decided to try again by making Eve, who is lesser than Adam, having been made from his rib instead.

In Genesis 1 that statement is repeated in a triple parallelism that God created Adam and Eve. (See Strongs H1254 בָּרָא bara').

Bara, is the Hebrew word for creation used to speak only of God creating Ex nihilo:

God created H1254 the heaven and the earth. (Gen. 1:1), life (Gen. 1:21) and man, aka Adam (3x in Gen. 1:25). Genesis 2 is an expansion on God's creation, with a special focus on the details of the creation of Man not available in the three line parallelism of chapter 1.​

It is amazing how much the Bible is discussed on here and yet understanding never improves. I've noticed scientific discussions suffer the same fate.

 

[Delphiki]

As I said... about the modern Christian apologetic... anyway.

Of course I don't believe in the existence of Lilith any more than I do a literal Adam and Eve. I was just wondering if there are any Christian creationists out there who do.

 

[AV1611VET]

I was just wondering if there are any Christian creationists out there who do.

Don't you think they would have checked in by now?

So far, it looks like:

Lilith: 0

 

[ChetSinger]

You do realize that the Lilith folklore predates the Christian re-write of Genesis, don't you? ... in the Talmud by a few centuries. Christianity merely omits it.

While the name itself predates Christianity, I believe the association of the name as a spouse of Adam doesn't appear until the Medieval period.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Don't you think they would have checked in by now?

So far, it looks like:

Lilith: 0

Christians don't like being reminded of those parts of Hebrew mythology that they didn't steal.

 

[AV1611VET]

Christians don't like being reminded of those parts of Hebrew mythology that they didn't steal.

Lilith is Hebrew mythology ... got it.

 

[AV1611VET]

Who here accepts Lilith as part of the creation myth? Is it mostly those with Jewish backgrounds and/or awareness of her story in the Talmud, or is her existence also hinted at by the differences between Genesis 1 and 2 in the Christian re-writes of the Torah?

Looks like Lilith isn't getting any votes here.

I have a suggestion:

Maybe it's because you called it a "creation myth"?

Why not up the question to "creation story" and see if that helps any?

I'm predicting it won't.

 

[Loudmouth]

To have a fairy tale like Lilith is exactly the reason why Jews were punished so hard by God. Rubbish stories are not worthwhile to explore.

Would it be racist to insert a joke about Jews and producing really bad Hollywood movies?

 

[juvenissun]

Would it be racist to insert a joke about Jews and producing really bad Hollywood movies?

A F-grade question.

 

[Loudmouth]

A F-grade question.

You aren't a teacher, or did you forget?

You are still very much the science student.