Like Father, Like Son

[gideon army]

Romans 8:16
16The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
​

Everything produces after its kind. Dogs give birth to puppies, cats give birth to kittens and tigers give birth to tiger cubs. In the same manner, when you are born again, you are born of God. You are a child of the Most High God. He is your Father and He doesn’t see you in the flesh. He sees you in the Spirit.

And His Spirit bears witness with your spirit that you are His child.

So when the devil comes to you and says, “Well, your father died of cancer, his father died of cancer and you are going to die of cancer too, just like your father,” just know in your heart that you are like your Father — your Father in heaven! Declare, “I am a child of the Most High God. He doesn’t have cancer, so neither do I!”

My friend, when you are born of God, you are born to win. Because your Daddy God is a winner, you are one too! When you wake up in the morning, say, “I am a winner because God is a winner!”

When you say that you cannot afford to buy something that you need, you have forgotten which family you now belong to. You have been born again into a very rich family — your Father owns every beast in the forest and the cattle on a thousand hills! (Psalm 50:10) You have a Daddy God in heaven who is well able to supply all your needs. (Philippians 4:19) Even if you don’t have much money now, don’t worry. Just ask God for the supply because your heavenly Father is rich.

When someone talks to you about a problem and asks, “What are we going to do about it?” you should say, “Don’t worry. Let’s talk to Daddy God about it. It is not a problem for Him, so it will not be a problem for us.”

Beloved, even when all around you is going under, your Daddy God is still the same heavenly Father who kept Noah’s world afloat, his loved ones safe and sound, and his possessions intact. Your world will never go under because you are God’s beloved child!

 

[Faith.Man]

Romans 8:16
16The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
​

Everything produces after its kind. Dogs give birth to puppies, cats give birth to kittens and tigers give birth to tiger cubs. In the same manner, when you are born again, you are born of God. You are a child of the Most High God. He is your Father and He doesn’t see you in the flesh. He sees you in the Spirit.

And His Spirit bears witness with your spirit that you are His child.

So when the devil comes to you and says, “Well, your father died of cancer, his father died of cancer and you are going to die of cancer too, just like your father,” just know in your heart that you are like your Father — your Father in heaven! Declare, “I am a child of the Most High God. He doesn’t have cancer, so neither do I!”

My friend, when you are born of God, you are born to win. Because your Daddy God is a winner, you are one too! When you wake up in the morning, say, “I am a winner because God is a winner!”

When you say that you cannot afford to buy something that you need, you have forgotten which family you now belong to. You have been born again into a very rich family — your Father owns every beast in the forest and the cattle on a thousand hills! (Psalm 50:10) You have a Daddy God in heaven who is well able to supply all your needs. (Philippians 4:19) Even if you don’t have much money now, don’t worry. Just ask God for the supply because your heavenly Father is rich.

When someone talks to you about a problem and asks, “What are we going to do about it?” you should say, “Don’t worry. Let’s talk to Daddy God about it. It is not a problem for Him, so it will not be a problem for us.”

Beloved, even when all around you is going under, your Daddy God is still the same heavenly Father who kept Noah’s world afloat, his loved ones safe and sound, and his possessions intact. Your world will never go under because you are God’s beloved child!

So what about Job? What about Paul's thorn in the flesh? It seems to me you're trying to justify "name it and claim it" or "the prosperity gospel" as some modern day televangelists preach. If I'm wrong (and I hope I am), please correct me and clarify.

 

[gideon army]

(1) So what about Job? (2) What about Paul's thorn in the flesh? It seems to me you're trying to justify "name it and claim it" or (3) "the prosperity gospel" as some modern day televangelists preach. If I'm wrong (and I hope I am), please correct me and clarify.

(1)
What Abt JOB? Guess you might have missed one of my earllier postings:-

Romans 8:33
33Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.
​

The book of Job tells us that Satan came to God’s throne and complained about Job. (Job 1:6–12) God’s throne is the most holy place. So why did God allow Satan to come before Him?

Satan could come before God because Adam had given up his place when he bowed his knee to Satan in the garden of Eden. (Genesis 3) So Satan had the right to take Adam’s place and come before God.

But praise God, Jesus, the last Adam, has come! And the sprinkling of His blood has cleansed the things of heaven. (Hebrews 9:22–24) His blood has cleansed and redeemed the unclean place where Satan walked and stood before God. There remains, therefore, no place in heaven for Satan. He cannot come before God any more to accuse you.

Who then, is in God’s presence today? Jesus! He is there for us. (Hebrews 9:24) And since He is for us, “Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.” (Romans 8:34)

So what happened to Job cannot happen to you. Job longed for a mediator, but he had none. (Job 9:33) His dream is our reality. Today, we have Jesus as our Mediator making intercession for us! (1 Timothy 2:5)

However, since the devil cannot come before God any more, he comes to you on earth and accuses you in your conscience. His greatest tool is deception because he has no real power. (Colossians 2:15) He has to deceive you into thinking that God is against you, that He is angry with you because you have failed Him, or that your sickness or poverty is God’s punishment for your sins.

My friend, don’t fall for the devil’s lies. If it is God who justifies you, no one can bring a charge against you! Satan cannot come before God to accuse you. Instead, you have free access to God’s throne of grace to “obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need”. (Hebrews 4:16)Jesus’ holy blood has given you perfect standing in the presence of God anytime & everytime regardless of your actions![/quote]

Therefore what Job has experienced in the past shall never be a reality for the New Covenant Believer However if anyone were to say that he/she is a 'Job' then better make sure you'll have DOUBLE from what you've lost + Job's suffering was less then a year (approx 9 months)

(2)

Paul's thorn in the flesh has been & it is still prevalent today & Just like Jesus, pharisees all object to the GRACE (Unearned/ Unmerited/ Undeserved) Message being preached. History always repeats itself

(3) What do you read of Jesus doing throughout the Gospels? Did HE not made all those who came to him well (Health) & Did Jesus 1st miracle not made water turn into very good wine/ gave peter a boat sinking/ net breaking loads of fishes/ multiply 5 loaves & 2 fishes to feed 5000 men which does not includes women & children + 12 baskets left over (Wealth)

Did Jesus not say that HE come that you might have life & have it more abundantly?

 

[Faith.Man]

(1)
What Abt JOB? Guess you might have missed one of my earllier postings:-

Romans 8:33
33Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.
​

The book of Job tells us that Satan came to God’s throne and complained about Job. (Job 1:6–12) God’s throne is the most holy place. So why did God allow Satan to come before Him?

Romans 8:33 - Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect?.... The elect of God are a certain select number of persons, whom he has so loved, as of his sovereign good will and pleasure, to choose in Christ before the foundation of the world, unto eternal life and salvation, by certain ways and means of his own appointing, as sanctification and faith, so that they are peculiarly his: but are these persons chargeable with nothing criminal? yes, with Adam's sin; with a want of original righteousness; with multitudes of sins before conversion, some of them with very great ones; and all, even after conversion, with frequent infirmities and backslidings: and will none rise up and exhibit charges of this nature against them? yes, even now, they very often bring charges against themselves; they are very apt to charge one another; Satan, the accuser of the brethren, lays many things to their charge very frequently, and so do the men of the world; but all these charges avail nothing, since none of the divine persons, Father, Son, and Spirit, lay anything against them: not God the Father, for it is God that justifieth; he against whom sin is committed, who is the lawgiver, and the righteous judge, justifies them from every charge; not by teaching them the way of justification, nor by infusing righteousness into them, or on account of any works of righteousness done by them, but by pronouncing them righteous through the imputation of the righteousness of his Son unto them: observe, that "God's elect", as such, are the objects of justification; which proves the eternity of it; the speciality of it as belonging to particular persons, and the everlasting security and continuance of it. [John Gill's Exposition on the Entire Bible]

Satan is still free to reek havoc. He has not been judged and neither have those of us who are believers.

Satan could come before God because Adam had given up his place when he bowed his knee to Satan in the garden of Eden. (Genesis 3) So Satan had the right to take Adam’s place and come before God.

You are adding much unsubstantiated speculation to the Biblical text.

But praise God, Jesus, the last Adam, has come! And the sprinkling of His blood has cleansed the things of heaven. (Hebrews 9:22–24) His blood has cleansed and redeemed the unclean place where Satan walked and stood before God. There remains, therefore, no place in heaven for Satan. He cannot come before God any more to accuse you.

Hebrews 9:22-24 does not say what you're are saying it does.

Hebrews 9:22 - And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Hebrews 9:23 - Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Hebrews 9:24 - For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; [NASB]

Who then, is in God’s presence today? Jesus! He is there for us. (Hebrews 9:24) And since He is for us, “Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.” (Romans 8:34)

So what happened to Job cannot happen to you. Job longed for a mediator, but he had none. (Job 9:33) His dream is our reality. Today, we have Jesus as our Mediator making intercession for us! (1 Timothy 2:5)

So why do we need an intercessor? Because Satan is still accusing us. The scripture you reference disproves your interpretation.

1 Timothy 2:5 - For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, [NASB]

You've built a House of Cards on a false premise (interpretation) that cannot stand scriptural scrutiny. I came from a "Word - Faith" church so I am quite familiar with the scriptural twisting going on.

 

[Strider1002]

Everything produces after its kind. Dogs give birth to puppies, cats give birth to kittens and tigers give birth to tiger cubs. In the same manner, when you are born again, you are born of God. You are a child of the Most High God. He is your Father and He doesn’t see you in the flesh. He sees you in the Spirit.

What's the scriptural reference for all this? Just curious.

 

[Jeanie95]

(1)
What Abt JOB? Guess you might have missed one of my earllier postings:-

Romans 8:33
33Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.
​

The book of Job tells us that Satan came to God’s throne and complained about Job. (Job 1:6–12) God’s throne is the most holy place. So why did God allow Satan to come before Him?

Satan could come before God because Adam had given up his place when he bowed his knee to Satan in the garden of Eden. (Genesis 3) So Satan had the right to take Adam’s place and come before God.

But praise God, Jesus, the last Adam, has come! And the sprinkling of His blood has cleansed the things of heaven. (Hebrews 9:22–24) His blood has cleansed and redeemed the unclean place where Satan walked and stood before God. There remains, therefore, no place in heaven for Satan. He cannot come before God any more to accuse you.

Who then, is in God’s presence today? Jesus! He is there for us. (Hebrews 9:24) And since He is for us, “Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.” (Romans 8:34)

So what happened to Job cannot happen to you. Job longed for a mediator, but he had none. (Job 9:33) His dream is our reality. Today, we have Jesus as our Mediator making intercession for us! (1 Timothy 2:5)

However, since the devil cannot come before God any more, he comes to you on earth and accuses you in your conscience. His greatest tool is deception because he has no real power. (Colossians 2:15) He has to deceive you into thinking that God is against you, that He is angry with you because you have failed Him, or that your sickness or poverty is God’s punishment for your sins.

My friend, don’t fall for the devil’s lies. If it is God who justifies you, no one can bring a charge against you! Satan cannot come before God to accuse you. Instead, you have free access to God’s throne of grace to “obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need”. (Hebrews 4:16)Jesus’ holy blood has given you perfect standing in the presence of God anytime & everytime regardless of your actions!

Therefore what Job has experienced in the past shall never be a reality for the New Covenant Believer However if anyone were to say that he/she is a 'Job' then better make sure you'll have DOUBLE from what you've lost + Job's suffering was less then a year (approx 9 months)

(2)

Paul's thorn in the flesh has been & it is still prevalent today & Just like Jesus, pharisees all object to the GRACE (Unearned/ Unmerited/ Undeserved) Message being preached. History always repeats itself

(3) What do you read of Jesus doing throughout the Gospels? Did HE not made all those who came to him well (Health) & Did Jesus 1st miracle not made water turn into very good wine/ gave peter a boat sinking/ net breaking loads of fishes/ multiply 5 loaves & 2 fishes to feed 5000 men which does not includes women & children + 12 baskets left over (Wealth)

Did Jesus not say that HE come that you might have life & have it more abundantly?[/quote] thanks, great post

 

[Faith.Man]

Therefore what Job has experienced in the past shall never be a reality for the New Covenant Believer However if anyone were to say that he/she is a 'Job' then better make sure you'll have DOUBLE from what you've lost + Job's suffering was less then a year (approx 9 months)

(2)

Paul's thorn in the flesh has been & it is still prevalent today & Just like Jesus, pharisees all object to the GRACE (Unearned/ Unmerited/ Undeserved) Message being preached. History always repeats itself

(3) What do you read of Jesus doing throughout the Gospels? Did HE not made all those who came to him well (Health) & Did Jesus 1st miracle not made water turn into very good wine/ gave peter a boat sinking/ net breaking loads of fishes/ multiply 5 loaves & 2 fishes to feed 5000 men which does not includes women & children + 12 baskets left over (Wealth)

Did Jesus not say that HE come that you might have life & have it more abundantly?

thanks, great post[/quote]
So I guess all those Christians around the world who are poor and oppressed just don't have enough faith, right?

 

[thesunisout]

He is trying to justify that..he follows joseph prince, a prosperity teacher and is spamming this board with prosperity teachings and joseph smith videos. I have no idea why the mods are allowing this.

So what about Job? What about Paul's thorn in the flesh? It seems to me you're trying to justify "name it and claim it" or "the prosperity gospel" as some modern day televangelists preach. If I'm wrong (and I hope I am), please correct me and clarify.

 

[gideon army]

There's a few fundementals in reading scriptures & they are:-

(1) Rightly Dividing the Word of Christo (Pre & Post Cross)

(2) Who wrote specific scriptures/ who was it directed to/ why it was written the way it it.

(3) Whenever you read something, make sure you COMPARE & Contrast Scripture with Scriptures & never ever build a doctrine around a single verse or preach out of context for it's NOT Dangerous- it's lethal for it'll not only kill you but those aroound you.

(4) All the epistles of paul were written directly to the Church/ Bride of Christ. Hence it's paramount that a Christian/Born Again needs too have a firm grasp of what's written to them 1st before understanding the rest.

thanks, great post

So I guess all those Christians around the world who are poor and oppressed just don't have enough faith, right?[/quote]

Scripturally?

Mark 4:8 "But other [seed] fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred."

There you have it, for Jesus Himself use the above parables from which FAITH was liken to a mustard seed- smallest known seed in the world. Therefore theoretically to the world at large or Scripturally to Christians, we all should be seeing manifestation of miracles similar or greater then what Jesus has done right in which HE said:-

John 14:12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater [works] than these he will do, because I go to My Father.

Is Jesus a lair? Surely NOT! Ahem, you sure you wanna know the reasons?

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed [is] everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

Throughout Christiandom for the pass 2000 years of history, how many are being taught to observe the 10 Commandments & so forth.

In a Nut Shall, under LAW, you perform to be blessed which Daddy GOD knows that it's a system that's inferior & men will end up on the side of cursing.

One perform = LAW

One Receives= GRACE

However, there's also another prevalent teaching throughout Christiandom - regardless of denominations. It's all about being conscious of sins

Now, let's see what POST CROSS teaching via the Holy Spirit thru apostle paul wrote Specifically/ Directly to the Church/Bride of Christ shall we?

1 Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,

1 Ti 4:2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,

Now, am sure all readers know that the NT was written in Greek right? let's see shall we what does SEARED with a Hot Iron means in the Greek? It's pronounced as kaustēriazō which means who carry about with them the perpetual consciousness of sin

My LORD my GOD- Prasie the name of Jesus! now, shall we string 1 Ti 1:4-2 together?

Imagine the 'doctrine' of remembering one's sin are from those who have left THE FAITH (Faith in Christ alone) in latter times (anytime after the apostles are latter times right?) giving heed to deceiving spirits & speakings of lies & hypocrisy (NOT IN line with NT & Post Cross teachings), these doctrine are from the demon!

To those who doesn't like what i've just quoted-Please, do not be angry with me-go vent your anger at Jesus (for all scriptures are GOD's breath) / Holy Spirit & apostle paul.

Now, little wonder teenagers are leaving church, it's never beos they hated church- they hated the Doctrines of demons & so forth.

With the Gospel revolution that has began around the world, lives are transformed/ poor became rich/ sick from all sort of deliberating diseases becamme healed/ marriages that have broken up are patched back & Churches are being filled up again.

Now, added bonus- read about the vaious churches light being snuff out in REv.

Ppl are running to the TRUE GOSPEL (GOODNEWS) being preached & the numbers have never been seen before.

In case there'll be some unbelieving ones, Jesus was always surrounded to the max & SINNERS gladly hear him & received from HIM. Only Self Righteous pharisees receive NOTHING

If that's not enough, read ACTS, the whole city came out to hear the GOSPEL being preached & please read it for yourself. So what does these tells you? Does it not give you an ideal that THE True Gospel is so attractive that everyone wanna hear it?

 

[patience7]

He is trying to justify that..he follows joseph prince, a prosperity teacher and is spamming this board with prosperity teachings and joseph smith videos. I have no idea why the mods are allowing this.

Actually, he is posting our position in Christ. The position we now hold as joint heirs with Christ and sons/daughters of God. It amazes me that Christians would rather hear "We are sinners, we are nothing but lowly no account worms, etc. than to know the position we have now in Christ. I don't care anything at all for Joseph Prince and some things that gideon says I don't agree with but I do agree that we as sons/daughters of God have access unto all power and authority that Jesus Christ had. If more Christians would walk in the power and authority that has been passed to us through the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ - just think what we could accomplish for the kingdom of God.

 

[thesunisout]

What he is doing is telling half the story, and speaking the prosperity and OSAS heresays, which are dangerous and lead people to spiritual paralysis. God is love, yes, and we are heirs and Sons and Daughters of the living God. That much is true, when we abide in Christ. We abide in Christ by following His commands and staying away from sin. When we are self-willed and think of God as some Santa Claus in the sky, we are not abiding in Christ. Material wealth is not promised to anyone, nor should we desire the things of this world. Jesus said those who exalt themselves will be humbled, but those who humble themselves will be exalted. While we are not justified by our works, faith without works is dead. We didn't earn what we have, in fact none of us deserved any more than death or hell. While we should remember our "position" in the Kingdom of God and be greatly encouraged (Jesus told us to rejoice that our names are written in Heaven), we should also humble ourselves before God with a godly fear and reverence, not let pride enter into the equation. We are strong only because Christ strengthens us.

Actually, he is posting our position in Christ. The position we now hold as joint heirs with Christ and sons/daughters of God. It amazes me that Christians would rather hear "We are sinners, we are nothing but lowly no account worms, etc. than to know the position we have now in Christ. I don't care anything at all for Joseph Prince and some things that gideon says I don't agree with but I do agree that we as sons/daughters of God have access unto all power and authority that Jesus Christ had. If more Christians would walk in the power and authority that has been passed to us through the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ - just think what we could accomplish for the kingdom of God.

 

[Faith.Man]

He is trying to justify that..he follows joseph prince, a prosperity teacher and is spamming this board with prosperity teachings and joseph smith videos. I have no idea why the mods are allowing this.

Thank you for you're reply. I was wondering what was going on. The "prosperity" message is very attractive to those who do not know the Word. And "televangelists" like to use out-of-context scriptures to encourage tithing and double-tithing because "you can't out give God". They forget Paul worked making tents during the week so he wouldn't be a burden on his converts.

 

[patience7]

thesunisout;58595085]What he is doing is telling half the story, and speaking the prosperity and OSAS heresays, which are dangerous and lead people to spiritual paralysis. God is love, yes, and we are heirs and Sons and Daughters of the living God. That much is true, when we abide in Christ. We abide in Christ by following His commands and staying away from sin.

Yes, we should "abide IN Christ." Our "standing" is part of our relationship with God that can fluctuate; our "sonship" never changes because we are born again of God's seed. Just as when our children disobey us, we have to discipline them and when they are forgiven their "standing" in the family returns to normal (they can come out of their rooms or become ungrounded) but their "sonship" never changes because they are born of our seed.

When we are self-willed and think of God as some Santa Claus in the sky, we are not abiding in Christ. Material wealth is not promised to anyone, nor should we desire the things of this world. Jesus said those who exalt themselves will be humbled, but those who humble themselves will be exalted. While we are not justified by our works, faith without works is dead. We didn't earn what we have, in fact none of us deserved any more than death or hell. While we should remember our "position" in the Kingdom of God and be greatly encouraged (Jesus told us to rejoice that our names are written in Heaven), we should also humble ourselves before God with a godly fear and reverence, not let pride enter into the equation. We are strong only because Christ strengthens us.

I don't think any one is saying that we should be "prideful" in our relationship with God. I am very humble in my relationship with God, and any answer I receive in prayer; my thanksgiving and praise is to Him. (I probably should say that that is not the only time I praise and thank God!)
I wouldn't say positively that material wealth is not promised nor our desires are not promised because that's not stated. We are not justified by our works - we exercise our faith by walking out on what we believe - that is the work of faith. Faith without works is dead - what works? What shall we do that we might work the works of God? This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. (John 6:28,29)

3 John 2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health even as thy soul prospereth.

John 14:13,14 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. (also John 15:16; John 16:23,24,26)

John 10:10 The thief cometh not but for to steal, kill and destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Prosperity teaching? I call it love. Just as I want what's best for my children because I love them so also does God want what's best for his kids because he loves us. I want my kids to obey and God wants us to obey - Just as our commandments are not grievous neither are God's - Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind and with all thy strength. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[thesunisout]

God told us to store up treasure in Heaven, not here on earth. The prosperity we have with Him is a spiritual prosperity; we're already rich. God told us not to even worry about food or clothing or any other care of this world. He already knows what we need so that if we put the Kingdom of God first, he will provide. "Name it and claim it" is heretical, and everything that stems from those teachings is spiritually polluted. Jesus told us that friendship with the world is emnity with God..we don't need the things of this world, we need His wisdom and His strength.

Yes, we should "abide IN Christ." Our "standing" is part of our relationship with God that can fluctuate; our "sonship" never changes because we are born again of God's seed. Just as when our children disobey us, we have to discipline them and when they are forgiven their "standing" in the family returns to normal (they can come out of their rooms or become ungrounded) but their "sonship" never changes because they are born of our seed.


I don't think any one is saying that we should be "prideful" in our relationship with God. I am very humble in my relationship with God, and any answer I receive in prayer; my thanksgiving and praise is to Him. (I probably should say that that is not the only time I praise and thank God!)
I wouldn't say positively that material wealth is not promised nor our desires are not promised because that's not stated. We are not justified by our works - we exercise our faith by walking out on what we believe - that is the work of faith. Faith without works is dead - what works? What shall we do that we might work the works of God? This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. (John 6:28,29)

3 John 2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health even as thy soul prospereth.

John 14:13,14 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. (also John 15:16; John 16:23,24,26)

John 10:10 The thief cometh not but for to steal, kill and destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Prosperity teaching? I call it love. Just as I want what's best for my children because I love them so also does God want what's best for his kids because he loves us. I want my kids to obey and God wants us to obey - Just as our commandments are not grievous neither are God's - Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind and with all thy strength. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[Light hearted]

He is trying to justify that..he follows joseph prince, a prosperity teacher and is spamming this board with prosperity teachings and joseph smith videos. I have no idea why the mods are allowing this.

I know this is a error, but I want to make sure. Did you mean to put Joseph Prince with Joseph Smith as stated above?

 

[thesunisout]

ahh yes, whoops. so many false teachers/prophets out there that they're starting to bleed into eachother..

I know this is a error, but I want to make sure. Did you mean to put Joseph Prince with Joseph Smith as stated above?

 

[Light hearted]

ahh yes, whoops. so many false teachers/prophets out there that they're starting to bleed into eachother..

Surely you are refering to Joseph Smith when you state false teachers/prophets out there.

If it weren't for Joseph Prince I'd still be sitting in church, and reading these forums scratching my head, with puzzled look on my face.
As I did for a year or two, I heard and read a mixed batch of religion.

I pondered, how is it that I can accept Jesus as my savior, the one who paid for my sins, yet Christians are more concerned about sin when it comes having a conversation.

More yet, as soon as someone comes on these forums and raises Grace to the utmost, someone comes along and the first thing that comes out of their mouth is sin, sin, sin.

On the other hand, as soon as someone comes on the forum and starts raising the law, no one comes along and starts saying Grace, Grace, Grace.

If one can fall from Grace, don't they fall onto the law written on stones?

Wasn't the law written on stones to show mankind how sinful he is?

And by observing the law written on stones, and knowing how we have fallen short and that we need a Savior, isn't Jesus that Savior? The one who paid the penalty of my sins. Now through the Grace of which he brought I now have a renewed/living Spirit? Does his Spirit now dwell within me?

Now someone please explain to me as a born again Chistian why I want to go back to the law written on stone?

God has now written the law on my heart, I know this because the Holy Spirit within me promps me when I do wrong. During the time He promps me he also reminds me that I am still blameless because of the Blood of Jesus Christ, I know this is true for He was a witness to the day Jesus hung on the cross.

If Jesus didn't pay the price for my sins, what exactly was the purpose of Him being beaten and hung til His death, a beating and death I deserve.

My sins is the answer to the above question, yes, my sins.

Jesus paid my price so I may come before God, of which I can now for the veil has been torn. Torn so that those who are found perfect in Christ may come before God without sin-consciencness. A clear, no doubt relationship with a perfect God. It is written that when you pray, pray with no doubt. What do you think happens when people come before God with their sins on their mind, doubt.

Do I still sin, yes, I still have a sinful nature deep within, I am still a fleshly person, I will continuously battle Spirit and flesh. I was originally born with a sinful nature, I was born of adams seed.

But I come before God through His Son, Jesus Christ, he is my mediator, He stands between God and myself. I don't see myself as a sinner before God, I see myself as God sees me, through the purifying Blood of His Son Jesus Christ.

Let's see where the REAL problem is within the Christian community, and it is rarely talked about, FAITH. The enduring process that Jesus truely paid the price for ones sins. Abraham sinned, it is recorded, perhaps for our sake. God did not hold his sins against him, he was declared righteous by God Himself because of his FAITH. He had no law written on stone at his time.

Adam sinned, he tried to cover his sin by covering his sin with a figleaf, self righteousness. The Iseralites sinned, they try to cover themselves with the law written on stones. Either way they are both self righteousness. God had to provide the righteous covering for adams sin, a skin. It took the shedding of an innocent animal to provide a covering worthy of God's approval. The Isrealites and the gentiles now have a covering worthy of God's approval, the Blood and the broken body of His Son Jesus Christ.

One thing Jesus can not do for us is grow our FAITH. God gave us a measure of FAITH, otherwise wthout this very small measure of FAITH we are totally set in satans camp. It is what we do with this measure of FAITH that decides our destination. Whatever you do with what God gives you will cause God to either give more or take away.

Now I reach to your heart, are you all truely preaching the price Jesus paid for your sins and uplifting other Christians? And in doing so, you are helping each other to go in the FAITH, which will strengthen them when satan comes against them.

Or.... Do you use the law written in stone which causes Christians to look at themselves and feel the condemnation that the law written on stone was originally supposed to do? It was to show man's sin so they would turn back to God in Spirit. But those who teach the law written on stone never end with, turn back to God in Spirit. Hmmm very strange.

Remember, where there is sin, Grace is greater. Please, someone tell me why it is when someone comes along advocating Grace, he gets bombarded with sin, sin, sin. If Grace if greater why don't we bombard the one who sells the idea of focusing on sin, with Grace, Grace, Grace. After all, this is a Christian subcatagory, saved people. If you want to beat people with sin, go to a non-Christian forum.

All through out the Bible God had the writers to write about His Son Jesus. God raised His Son high above all else from Genesis to Revelations. Shouldn't we do the same, afterall, He is our Father, like Father, like sons and daughters.

In Jesus name, amen

 

[thesunisout]

Sister, don't mistake me, because I agree with some of what you are saying. However, the prosperity teaching is heretical, and this is why Joseph Prince is a false teacher. Did you know his latest church (called the rock (who is the rock?)) cost at least 300 million dollars to build? It is appalling really, that he uses the money he got from Gods people on a building to appease his ego instead of helping the poor.

Luke 18:22

When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Joseph could have built a much more modest building, not the vainglorious monstrousity his church sits in, and given the money to the poor. That is pure ego, and it is disgusting. It shows something about where his heart is.

God is not the ATM in the sky. Joseph likes to talk about "effortless" living, but this is not in scripture. Jesus said we would face hatred, persecution, trials, and suffering. He told us that we are no longer of the world. He told us not to love the things of this world and friendship with the world is enmity with God.

Matthew 6:19-21

Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

You speak of "sin consciousness". This is another false teaching I am sure I have heard from Joseph. One thing God is much more interested in than you getting that new IPAD is your santification. He wants His people to be Holy and without sin. You act like God doesn't care anymore if you sin or not. God is Holy and hates sin. He hates it from unbelievers, and He hates it from Christians. Santification is an on going process, and sin must be continually dealt with and repented from. It is not something you accept or tolerate in your life. There is no excuse for sin, at all.

Revelation 3:19

Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

Hebrews 12:6

because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son."

The kind of Christians these word of faith preachers are raising up are spiritually immature. They feel entitled, they are casual towards sin, and know absolutely nothing about spiritual warfare. All they seem to care about is God putting something in their wallet. In a time of testing, a lot of them are going to fall away.

1 Timothy 6:10

For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

It's fine to teach grace, but it's not fine to neglect everything else. It's like trying to drive a car with one tire. Also, the OSAS is another heresay. You can lose your salvation:

Hebrews 10:26

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

There isn't any sacrifice for rebellion against God. You can't manipulate grace by living like a demon because you think the blood of Jesus will cover it. This is another reason why teachers who preach this doctrine are so dangerous. I have met so many Christians who believed they could just sin to their hearts content and God would forgive them for all of it. Scripture disagrees:

2 Peter 2:20

If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

So anyone who believes that will be lost, and God is going to hold the teacher who taught that doctrine accountable.

So, while I agree that grace should be spoken about more often..and that we could all use a much better understanding of Gods grace and glory..most of the errors that propagate on this forum are (funnily enough) about sin. People find every reason under the sun to justify their sin to themselves, including this doctrine of grace. They do everything but correct the problem, and even pretend to themselves that they can't stop sinning because of the corruption of the flesh. It's all a Satanic lie. Sanctification is an ongoing process and repentance is the key. The Holy Spirit can turn you from any sin if you are willing to give it up. So, for this and many other reasons I repudiate these false doctrines..they lead Christians into spiritual paralysis and ruins lives.

Surely you are refering to Joseph Smith when you state false teachers/prophets out there.

If it weren't for Joseph Prince I'd still be sitting in church, and reading these forums scratching my head, with puzzled look on my face.
As I did for a year or two, I heard and read a mixed batch of religion.

I pondered, how is it that I can accept Jesus as my savior, the one who paid for my sins, yet Christians are more concerned about sin when it comes having a conversation.

More yet, as soon as someone comes on these forums and raises Grace to the utmost, someone comes along and the first thing that comes out of their mouth is sin, sin, sin.

On the other hand, as soon as someone comes on the forum and starts raising the law, no one comes along and starts saying Grace, Grace, Grace.

If one can fall from Grace, don't they fall onto the law written on stones?

Wasn't the law written on stones to show mankind how sinful he is?

And by observing the law written on stones, and knowing how we have fallen short and that we need a Savior, isn't Jesus that Savior? The one who paid the penalty of my sins. Now through the Grace of which he brought I now have a renewed/living Spirit? Does his Spirit now dwell within me?

Now someone please explain to me as a born again Chistian why I want to go back to the law written on stone?

God has now written the law on my heart, I know this because the Holy Spirit within me promps me when I do wrong. During the time He promps me he also reminds me that I am still blameless because of the Blood of Jesus Christ, I know this is true for He was a witness to the day Jesus hung on the cross.

If Jesus didn't pay the price for my sins, what exactly was the purpose of Him being beaten and hung til His death, a beating and death I deserve.

My sins is the answer to the above question, yes, my sins.

Jesus paid my price so I may come before God, of which I can now for the veil has been torn. Torn so that those who are found perfect in Christ may come before God without sin-consciencness. A clear, no doubt relationship with a perfect God. It is written that when you pray, pray with no doubt. What do you think happens when people come before God with their sins on their mind, doubt.

Do I still sin, yes, I still have a sinful nature deep within, I am still a fleshly person, I will continuously battle Spirit and flesh. I was originally born with a sinful nature, I was born of adams seed.

But I come before God through His Son, Jesus Christ, he is my mediator, He stands between God and myself. I don't see myself as a sinner before God, I see myself as God sees me, through the purifying Blood of His Son Jesus Christ.

Let's see where the REAL problem is within the Christian community, and it is rarely talked about, FAITH. The enduring process that Jesus truely paid the price for ones sins. Abraham sinned, it is recorded, perhaps for our sake. God did not hold his sins against him, he was declared righteous by God Himself because of his FAITH. He had no law written on stone at his time.

Adam sinned, he tried to cover his sin by covering his sin with a figleaf, self righteousness. The Iseralites sinned, they try to cover themselves with the law written on stones. Either way they are both self righteousness. God had to provide the righteous covering for adams sin, a skin. It took the shedding of an innocent animal to provide a covering worthy of God's approval. The Isrealites and the gentiles now have a covering worthy of God's approval, the Blood and the broken body of His Son Jesus Christ.

One thing Jesus can not do for us is grow our FAITH. God gave us a measure of FAITH, otherwise wthout this very small measure of FAITH we are totally set in satans camp. It is what we do with this measure of FAITH that decides our destination. Whatever you do with what God gives you will cause God to either give more or take away.

Now I reach to your heart, are you all truely preaching the price Jesus paid for your sins and uplifting other Christians? And in doing so, you are helping each other to go in the FAITH, which will strengthen them when satan comes against them.

Or.... Do you use the law written in stone which causes Christians to look at themselves and feel the condemnation that the law written on stone was originally supposed to do? It was to show man's sin so they would turn back to God in Spirit. But those who teach the law written on stone never end with, turn back to God in Spirit. Hmmm very strange.

Remember, where there is sin, Grace is greater. Please, someone tell me why it is when someone comes along advocating Grace, he gets bombarded with sin, sin, sin. If Grace if greater why don't we bombard the one who sells the idea of focusing on sin, with Grace, Grace, Grace. After all, this is a Christian subcatagory, saved people. If you want to beat people with sin, go to a non-Christian forum.

All through out the Bible God had the writers to write about His Son Jesus. God raised His Son high above all else from Genesis to Revelations. Shouldn't we do the same, afterall, He is our Father, like Father, like sons and daughters.

In Jesus name, amen

 

[patience7]

God told us to store up treasure in Heaven, not here on earth. The prosperity we have with Him is a spiritual prosperity; we're already rich. God told us not to even worry about food or clothing or any other care of this world. He already knows what we need so that if we put the Kingdom of God first, he will provide. "Name it and claim it" is heretical, and everything that stems from those teachings is spiritually polluted. Jesus told us that friendship with the world is emnity with God..we don't need the things of this world, we need His wisdom and His strength.

In Orientalisms of the Bible by E. W. Bullinger, these verses are given as an example of an orientalism: Matthew 6:19-21 Lay not up for yourselves treasures (thoughts) upon earth, where moth (doubt) and rust (fear) doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for your selves treasures (thoughts) in heaven, where neither moth (doubt) nor rust (fear) doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure (thought) is, there will your heart be also.
(which makes John 10:10 more understandable - The thief cometh not but for to steal, kill and destroy)

"Name it and claim it" is not heretical. We can speak and claim the promises of God. I am not talking about making millions, or getting rich. I am talking about having a job. I am not talking about getting a new car - I am talking about having the funds to fix my car to keep it running. I need a job and a vehicle in order to live - there are some things we do need that are of this world in order to survive. We are to seek God first and these things will be added unto us but I think He likes us coming to him and asking for the things we need. Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thansgiving let your requests be made known unto God. Philippians 4:6

whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do
ask any thing in my name, I will do it
whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you

Whatsoever means whatsoever and any thing means any thing.

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. James 4:3 Our intent and motive of heart will determine if we receive anything from God.

 

[thesunisout]

What I think it is telling us is not to rely on the things of this world, which are perishing, but rather rely on the things of God, which are imperishable..to build up our reward in Heaven rather than our material existence here. If we are worried more about the things of this world rather than the things of God, that is where our heart will be. We need our eyes turned towards Heaven, and then our heart will follow. It is to love and need God rather than the world.

The thief is referring to the devil. This passage refers to thieves, which does not refer to a singular devil.

God has told us He already knows what our needs are. He knows you need your car fixed. You don't need to demand it from him, and he doesn't owe it to you. God is not our debtor. Approaching God by demanding is something a petulant child does. It's not like, if you use the right legalese, God will be compelled to do something for you. God keeps His promise to take care of us, but it's up to Him how He wants to fulfill it. Nowhere is there any promise for material wealth.

I'm not saying don't ask to get your car fixed, but God will do it on his own time, according to His scheduling, if He does it at all. He isn't obligated. You also don't know what His plans are. What if He doesn't want you to get your car fixed? What if He has something much better planned for you? Instead of naming it and claiming it, allow God to contrive it and provide it.

The rule of thumb I use in asking for things is, does it glorify God? If it doesn't glorify God, I am not interested in it. I need less things in my life that don't glorify God, not more. I know God is taking care of my life, and I trust Him..if I really need something, I'll ask..but materially, it's all the same to me. I only want expediency in my life to glorify God and do His will.

In Orientalisms of the Bible by E. W. Bullinger, these verses are given as an example of an orientalism: Matthew 6:19-21 Lay not up for yourselves treasures (thoughts) upon earth, where moth (doubt) and rust (fear) doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for your selves treasures (thoughts) in heaven, where neither moth (doubt) nor rust (fear) doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure (thought) is, there will your heart be also.
(which makes John 10:10 more understandable - The thief cometh not but for to steal, kill and destroy)

"Name it and claim it" is not heretical. We can speak and claim the promises of God. I am not talking about making millions, or getting rich. I am talking about having a job. I am not talking about getting a new car - I am talking about having the funds to fix my car to keep it running. I need a job and a vehicle in order to live - there are some things we do need that are of this world in order to survive. We are to seek God first and these things will be added unto us but I think He likes us coming to him and asking for the things we need. Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thansgiving let your requests be made known unto God. Philippians 4:6

whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do
ask any thing in my name, I will do it
whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you

Whatsoever means whatsoever and any thing means any thing.

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. James 4:3 Our intent and motive of heart will determine if we receive anything from God.