Lifes biggest crossroads

[annrobert]

continued
it absolutely devastated me. how could someone be so nasty for so long, and do this to me. and to add to it all, she has taken the kids away, and wont let me see them. at first I didn’t know where they even where. I ring them to talk each night before bed, and thought I would give the marriage another try.

This is great and God can restore.Again humility and meekness can go a long ways.It may not be easy.Especially if the other person has given up.However I think humilty and a willingness to not just say soory ,but truly admit their role in the damage and truly admit the others persons strengths and efforts and value can help restore hope.Persistence in these attitudes until the other person gains hope.Wanting restoration more than rights and pride.If restoration is trult wanted.Remember God sees her broken heart as well as yours.God sees her needs as well as yours.God sees her efforts as well as yours.You do have a right to the children as well as her.Get a court order if neccesary.With love and only because you have a right to your children as well as her,leave off attitudes as proving something.

I asked her if she could do something for me to which her reply was: you have no control over my future.

It looks like she was feeling controlled and smothered,almost owned.Maybe she thought you felt you were near perfect and when you did make mistakes it was after all her fault.If she had been a better wife it never would have happened.The marriage can be restored,it sounds to me like she loves you and wants hope.She has tried and probably will try again,given hope.Right now she seems to be trying to prove she can and will be free.

I didn’t even make comment, but continued:
We are going to have contact with each other till the day we dye. in discussing the kid’s futures, so could she remove all bitterness and anger from herself in regards to me so she can be happy around me. I said I will forgive her and do the same in return. she disgruntly said: ill try

Depsite her feelings and hurts and brokeness and bitterness,she wants to forgive.

I have been praying long and hard everyday for the last few years for god to restore our marriage and put distance between her and her parents.
God loves to restore , on His terms though and it may not be easy.God can heal both of you and your broken hearts and the marriage.Do not give up.


And even more so in the last few months. I spoke to the pastor of our church who we had been talking with over the last 12 months for help on a number of occasions he came to talk to us because he knew we where having trouble. in a nutshell, he said to me to keep doing what your doing, cause god sees all. her efforts wont go unpunished if she doesn’t turn from her ways.


Yes God does see all and the pastor does not.Nor does any human.God sees hearts.God reads minds.Not humans.Only God sees hearts.
God is forgiving and healing and she is His child and He is able to make her stand and heal her.
I spoke to the pastor of our church about it all after she left, and he quoted 1 Corinthians 7:15 if the unbelieveing departs let him do so, a believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances. god has called us to live in peace.

True.

so I figured that maybe god was removing me from a situation I was trying so hard to work on but never seemed to get too far with.

Maybe she is thinking that same thing.
However God hates divorce.

I still don’t know wether I should try or not, cause I did promise to stick with her during the good times and the bad. so I began praying to god" please place a hedge of thorns around my wife so that anyone with the wrong intent will be removed from giving her bad advice. and to bind Satan from causing so much havoc in my marriage.


She might be praying the same thing.

I got a text message from her the other day asking to see me as she wanted to talk. I was naturally excited thinking that she wanted to give our marriage another go,

She must have some pretty good qualities for you to want her back so much.After all not many humans are so perfect and honourable that they could be excited to have someone back in their life unless that person has some qualities.


but I was sadly mistaken.
she announced to me that she is 13 weeks pregnant. I was initially hurt really bad, because she threatened to leave me and find someone else a few times. on a number of occasions, she grabbed a bag of clothes and some alcohol and left. she didn’t return those nights, nor would she tell me when she would be back. so I thought she was having a baby with someone else, but she assures me that its mine.
Talk about a hedge of thorns!

If you truly doubt her fidelity and are not just angry,definately get a test done.I have left the house a couple times and drove around for a bit when being swore at.No alcohol though.Cheating was not remotely on my mind.Neither did I go anywhere bad.I came home in an hour.However had I decided to spend the night gone,it would have been at a relatives.No cheating would have been on my mind.However I rather reconcile quickly and not leave for more than a couple hours and only when being swore at etc.I was not drinking, not planning anything bad.Just hurting.I do not know her though,or what was on her mind.Maybe she was just hurting.Maybe not.You know her,if you suspect her of cheating get a test done.


we talked some more and I asked her to give us another go for the sake of us, our kids and our unborn child to which she said there’s no chance.

Maybe she wants you to want her and love her ,maybe she needs to know you value her and desire to be with her because you recognize her value and she is precious to you and not only the children.Yes it is wonderful that you love and care for the children but I think she wants to know she has worth as well.Not just be a servant in the home.But rather a valued and precious and loved wife.

she is never coming back. she said that she didn’t want to have any more kids till after her birthday, then she is going to have more (which again hurt me because she wants more kids, but plans to have them with someone else)

Maybe she is saying this to see if you will decide she is worth loving and showing humilty for.Sounds like maybe there is hope.

I am hurting in a big way. I went to every doctor’s appointment and scan with each of our other children, and now she doesn’t want me to have much to do with it all. she has known for the past 5 weeks, and told her mum, dad and family, all her friends before she told me.

I think she feels deeply wounded and betrayed.


I am at the lowest point of my life. I am at the crossroads. do I keep trying to get our family together, or do I let the unbelieving partner depart? I have been heavily involved with prayer to god who I know will answer my prayer.

Truly fighting for a marriage often requires humilty and meekness and letting go of pride,setting the person free so that they come back because they know they are loved and valued and precious to you.God hates divorce and gives grace to the humble.God loves to restore,loves people to reconcile and wants people to forgive from the heart.God is able to heal both your hearts.God loves her as much as God loves you.She is worth just as much to God as you are.She is a sinner,you are a sinner.Maybe different sins,but sins nonetheless.God is merciful and compassionate and forgiving.to her as well as all His children.

I will just make it clear that im not looking to find anyone else, im fully cured of that. im just wanting some comments on peoples similar experiences or advice. or even some wife’s out there who have been in a similar situation against their husbands and how they where turned around to again love their husbands. I would love it if someday my wife would change

Both of you need to change and not just her.I think she needs to know that you are willing to change.And especially that you are willing to admit her value and efforts and worth as a human and as a wife.Cherish her.

and we could be reunited, but im thinking the lord might be taking me out of that marriage for a reason.

The Lord? or pride.

By the way, I and my (ex) wife are both 29 years old.

[/quote]

You two can have a happy and long future together.Nothing is impossible to God.Love never fails.1 corinthians 13 describes love.
blessings
annrobert

 

[annrobert]

I have tried to be very objective here.You sound like you are really hurting and really want the marriage restored and I think there is much hope.
You have admitted that you lost interest for awhile.This must have hurt your wife.
Still you are interested now ,God loves forgiveness and restoration and healing.God hates divorce.


Luke 13

9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[taku60]

When she finally kills you maybe God will give you a better wife in the next life.

 

[annrobert]

taku60I would say she definitly sounds like a user and now you are going to be subject to child support and family law court for the next 18 or so years, depending on the damages to your net income you might want to look into going over seas to live and work so you can keep your income. The biblical issues dont really matter right now because you had cause to leave the moment she first neglected you sexually or initiated the first violence now its just a matter of avoiding extortion. You will have to start over in life and hopefully you will now know how to avoid users.

Iv always wanted to live in America, not really biased where. iv always liked some of the American ways of life, and the general attitudes of the christian people that iv come in contact with..

i totally know where your coming from here. And thats exactly as i would like to do. But

This is not loving ,no matter what a person tells themself.
People can often sense these attitudes and respond to them regardless how much a person claims to be pouring out love and forgiveness.
If these attitudes exist , they will be able to sense it.No matter what is said.
It is not easy to raise kids own your own while working as well.
Paying for baby sitters while working or going to a doctor,always driving to babysitters,kids school appointments,doctor visits,emergency visits,dental appointments, doing everything on your own and no help,all at the same time as working a job.A person needs to have compassion even if they are feeling resentment .
Coming home from work and still have several hours of work to do.
Getting up and driving a sick child to hospital in the middle of the night and having to bring all the children with you as well as the sick one, then get up and get the children ready for baby sitter or school drive them there and then off to work.
All yourself.
Paying all the expenses on your own , daycare and possibly not a penny to spare ,doctor visits and dental visits.
Not easy.Not fair.
Both parents are to share the responsibilty of raising the children.Not escape the country , and leave the children without the love and nuture of the parent.
wanting to be able to do this and thinking you would like to will generally show up in attitude.
Also wanting it seems like a lack of love for the children and your partner.
It can often be sensed by the other partner.
The children do not deserve to be abandoned .
What if both parents abandoned the children.
sad


1 Corinthians 13


1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity

 

[ddisciple]

So in 2002 or 2003 she broke it off.
Was it ever discussed why this happened.

Her reason was because she wanted to find herself, but i later found out there was another man interested in her and she wanted to try it out. this naturally hurt me a lot. Her and i where in a reasonably serious relationship at this stage

Was it a one night stand?

no, as far as im aware it didnt esculate to that thankfully.

When you two got back together,was the problem ever discussed in depth of what happened, and why?

she has always been very vague about this. Her mother even suggested finding someone else when i had insecurities about our relationship for a few months after this.

Sounds like after about two more years you two got engaged.

Yes, it was about that long

Okay after 6 years of dating you get married

correct

Forgiving is good and the godly thing to do.However some people need some boundaries put up in order to help them stop bad behaviour.Some people are child like and will get away with what they can unless it is stopped somehow,such as a person leaving the house for awhile.
At least I am trying to find ways for boundaries.
If a person gets to keep up bad behaviour it is unhealthy for both parties and the marriage.Plus the one with the bad behaviour loses any incentive to smarten up.
I am not meaning normal mistakes or bad days,I am meaning if the poor behaviour is ongoing and consistent.
I am trying to look at this objectively as I am not good at this and trying to learn these things myself.

i felt i did all i could. i read her gods word, asked her to stop doing it, asked her to realise how much she was hurting me, and on occasions i had to physically restrain her so she couldnt punch anymore

She will not respect you if you allow this to continue.Holding her arms to stop her is good but she has to learn their is consequences and she has to control herself.She has to respect you.Treating you like this is a complete disrespect for you and being allowed to continue it perpetrayes more lack of respect.The bible says wives respect you husbands.She needed help to respect you.
How not sure,maybe leaving to a friends house when she does this,to give her a few days to cool off.The more I let my ex beat me and forgave him the worse he got.Forgiving is good but somehow at the same time,an abusive person has to learn there will be some consequences.In order to save the marraige and a healthy relationship.Again not sure how really.

lets remember her bad behavior here. ill come back to this later. the more i forgave and tried to love and show my care the worse it got for me

Was the phone calls going on and on for hours every day or reasonable?She may have needed her mom for emotional support.Especially if she was depressed.Every second day may be a bit much, but was this ongoing or temporary.New moms depend on their mothers quite abit , it is fairly normal .Having the freedom to do this creates security in the mom and the marriage as as she will not feel stifled or smothered.Also it almost seems like insecurites were going on from the start,that were not dealt with.

I was always supportive of her and her mothers relationship except when it started causing trouble in our marrige. A husband as a wiser partner appointed by god and also the heads of the family can forsee problems arising. i was able to see early signs, and asked nicely for her to have a close relationship with me as opposed to her family.
A husband and wife should be number 1 in each others lifes besides god. She always made sure her mother was happy before me. i put up with this for so long, and was always being put second best. it was not wrong of me to be thinking like this, and i tried so many ways to be supportive and loving at the same time as being a responsible head of the house. so your absolutaly right, i have had insecurities from the start, because of the mother in laws influence.

I am not sure just how much time was being taken up,was it like 2 hours 3 times a week or 5 hours 5 times a week,it is hard to know whether this was unreasonable on the moms part or if you were being overly possessive , feeling threatened , or smothering.Phone calls are quite normal between relatives and especially mothers and daughters .Visits are also normal and healthy provided it is not taking up all your private time.I cannot tell by what you are saying whether or not this was happening.It is sad that this was not able to be worked out and compromises made that satisfied both of you.When a couple gets married they still need contact with their family and to maintain their relationships,however those relationships cannot take up all the family and couple time.I had that happen to me and it was very hard to deal with as I need time for myself and my family.In my case Many family members were taking up grossly inapprpiate amounts of our time and with me working it was leaving way too little time for us.There are times for relatives definately and I love them .But they were not giving any space.With them there was no happy medium it was all or nothing.Had I not been working at the time it would have been easier.Still we also need to have time with our relatives parents etc.Marriage does not mean we have to practically cut off all ties.I really am not sure what was happening there .Normally a wife will want enough time with her family and her husband and vise versa.

I was always the one comprimising, and she stood firm. i took this for a long time until i was sick of being put as second best. To give you an idea,when discussing names for one of our kids, we came to the top 5 we liked. i said i didnt want anyone else to know until our child was born and then we could tell everyone what we named him/her. when over at her families house for dinner one night, her mum blurted out all the names we had chosen and gave an opinion on what she thought of each. she put her ideas in and suggested we call the baby this or that.
When we got home i was pretty mad about it. there are things that need to be kept between husband and wife, and she had just betrayed my trust because we agreed to keep it between us as a husband and wife should. she NEVER apoligised for any of this, and stuck by her mothers side. she never once accpeted i would have been hurt over this.

I am wondering what was making you feel so threatened by their relationship.Or possibly her feeling smothered.Partners normally want time with each other and it is to be freely given .Something needed working on ,the spirit and not law.

in the beginning i was always working on the spirit. always being kind and forgiving for the hurt she had caused me. towards the end i was asking god for help, and he directed me to texts such as epesians 5 where it says wifes be subordinate to your husbands in everything.

Again the spirit and not law.This does not mean cutting off all or almost all contact.People need freedom.

yes, however when all your spirit is extinguished and used up, you have to get back to the manufacturers instructions. this is where all else fails, you revert back to gods word

This cannot be forced, there has to be freedom and then a person will come.They cannot feel forced or trapped.They have to feel free.If a child is forced to sit on a parents knee say like in an office they want down.But once they get down they are quickly back to get up on the moms knee.Sort of like that.

Would god accept that sort of answer from us on judgement day do you think? i know exactly what your saying. theres a saying to suit: you get more flies with honey than with vinegar.
you be nice to someone and you get better results. i poured out the nice for a long time remember. however when times get really tough you need to revert back to the law. gods law!

Was your wife being supportive and a good wife in this period also?Was it mutual.

Sometimes yes and sometimes no. i will admit at times i was that mentally worn down (like now) that i didnt have much love in me to give out due to it all being trodden on.

Was she also spending time with you?

sometimes yes, and sometimes no.

So you were both spending time together and conversing with each other and meeting each others needs.

Yes, there where good times amongst the bad. times where we where filling each others love banks, and things where great.

 

[ddisciple]

This may well have been a serious depression and hormones going haywire.Maybe she needed help.Still physical abuse is wrong period.The person doing is not showing respect and love and they also are not respecting themself.However she may have needed to be taken to see a doctor and maybe she did not know something was wrong.Maybe she is prone to postpartum depression.

I didnt know anything about any of this back then, and didnt even know what to look for. all i knew was things wherent good, and i was praying hard to god to help

Maybe she felt safe during her vulnerable periods with her mom.Maybe during pregnancy and after she was ill.

Maybe she did. i tried to be supportive and take care of my family as a husband should. who was loooking after my needs since my wife was being comforted by her mother?

Was this temporary or long term , not sure here?

it was fulltime for a fortnight, then when i was back at work, i came home and did washing, some cooking, cleaning etc to help her out

In her as a wife?

yes, because i was so mentally worn out from trying to make her happy, and taking the rubbish she was dishing out

Was she trying to escape something or just angry?

She has a very stubborn nature, and wanted her own way all the time

Were you trying to be involved or resenting their time as a family?Were you trying to be involved or trying to keep your wife away?

probably a bit of both. a family is between husband, wife and children. when other start spending too much time around, it makes life difficult. i was trying to have family time with my wife and our kids. and theres nothing wrong with that. i was sick and tired of spending time with her family. yes they where nice people, but there comes a time and place for everything. when a family is having difficulty bacause others are spending too much time, then thats where they need to back off a little. it got to the point where i would hear about new things my kids where doing through conversations at her families place. i as a husband and father should have been the first to know bar ANYONE ELSE

So the relationship she had with her mom was becoming unbearable to you and this was leading to bitter arguements and resentments.

yes, thats correct

I think she needed to feel free in order to trust you.

i think i needed some love and attention to give me some hope. i had given her all the freedom, and she used all my trust up

I think she possibly felt controlled and that was what she was rebelling at maybe.

you are right there. it was to a point where she didnt want to listen to anything i had to say, so i had to revert back to gods word. What better than the manufacturers instructions.

I think she was resenting the sense of control real or imagined, more than anything.

yes she would have been rebelling against gods word here too. i as appointed leader of the family was trying to lead, but she wouldnt be part of it.

If wrong feelings were happening it needed to end.

correct

You mean you met up alone?
Did your wife know and agree to this meeting alone?

we met up alone, and she knew nothing of it at the time

A mistake yes,a person must not be spending time alone with the opposite sex,especially without their spouse knowing and especially if there are inappropiate feelings.
I know that you are genuinely sorry about it though.It may take your wife some time to heal from this.

yes correct again. i did the wrong thing and realised my mistake.

It is wrong what happened and it causes much hurt and pain.It is good you stopped it and that you are truly repentant.

thankyou

That was a good choice.Shows you are willing to do the right thing,and shows true repentance.

Thankyou again

This is all very sad.You both sound like you have been through alot.You got married young and there seems to have been insecurtites from the start.However Jesus can heal and put the marriage back together again.
Nothing is impossible to Jesus.So it sounds like you were married for four years?I will read the next post later?

yes he can. im not entirely sure if he has pulled me from that relationship for a reason or not

So after 3 years of marriage she moved out due to sexual misconduct , and constant tension over the relationship with her family.

yes, she did. but did i move out when she was physically and mentally bashing me? when she always made sure her mum was happy over me? when she threatened to divorce me and take my kids away? when i was punched in the face and spat on? when i was forgiving her and trying to love her through all the hardship she placed me under?

Sounds like both of you were hurt from each other.She was hurting too.It is important to acknowledge that when trying to reconcile.

you dont know how many times i apologised and really showed her i was sorry and cared. i did so much to build the love between her and i its not funny

You were being a good dad and that is wonderful.

Thankyou

It needs to be recognized the efforts that she put in as well.You were not the only one putting in effort.She needs her efforts to be acknolowedged.

yes, i did this as well. i often commented on how good it was to have a family back again, and i was looking forward to spending the rest of my life to making our relationship work. i wrote her letters, and even printed a list of fun things we as a family and just things her and i could do to bring the love and trust back. i asked her to put some effort into making me feel loved again too, but her response was always 'im working on it' which was good, but it never happened.

 

[ddisciple]

She must have been trying for there to have been good times.It sounds like you are only thinking of everything you do,when you do something good ,it is pointed out strongly,when she does good it is barely recognized.That is what it seems like.This would hurt anyone.

Yes, i guess after all that she has done to me from start to the point im at now, i have a lot of trouble praising her up for the good things she did. i know i should do more, like jesus. he healed the ear back onto one of the men who where about to hang him on the cross after one of his disciples cut it off with the sword.

So she must have really been putting in an effort.As well as trying to heal from the infidelity.I realize you stpped it and were truly sorry,and that is really good.It still takes time and work for the injured partner to heal though.They need this time.

Yes, this is correct too. she needed time and love for healing and so did i. We both needed it, so i tried my best knowing she needed it. unfortunately i recieved very little in return which has got me to this point where i have trouble seeing anything good she does due to the fact that my love bank had been depleted.

Marriage is not about comparing who does most.You really do not know her heart and how much she was hurting or trying.Only God knows.I think she needed her efforts to make the marraige work and to heal to be valued.

Yes, this is true. God does see all, and if she was trying as hard as i was then neither of us would be in this situation. it all depends on how much effort you are truly putting in. i dont believe she was trying as hard as she could have. each and every person is different, but you dont go out and beat on someone, or take their children away.

I think there was also times you did not fulfill all vows and promises either.She is not the only one at fault.Feeling that she was always failing must have hurt deeply.A score card being kept and her always coming up short.

I was the last person to be holding onto a score card due to me being the one to always try forgive and move along. I out my trust in god and we went to a christian counsellor. i told the counsellor my side of the story and she told hers. if it was indeed the case that i was being too difficult to live with dont you think he would have told me? i was ready for a big kick in the pants, because its far easier to change yourself than someone else. i guess i was that confused in the whole situation i was hoping i was doing something wrong i couldnt see. Of course everyone does things wrong, no one is perfect, but its when you repeat that same wron and refuse to follow gods word is when things get really frustrating. i made sure i was doing the absolute best i could, then left the rest to god.

Maybe she felt she could never live up to standard and would always feel the pain of failing.

she might have, thats where i tried to go about things in a nice way so to have the affectionate approach.

It sounds like their were times of being loved and cared for ,this as well as other times you mentioned.This needs to be considered and valued and not disregarded,for the marriage to heal.Her good points need to be noticed.You said during this time you put in great effort when really to me it sounds like both of you were.

there where times in the years gone that i was loved and cared for. those times are what i have been hoping and praying for so long. i tried to always remember the person she was rather than the person she now is
sorry, but im going to have to disagree with you when it comes to her really trying. I honestly dont think she tried much in the latter part. she constantly brought things up against me, and degraded me in so many ways. If she was really trying to work on things, she wouldnt punch me in front of the children, or throw my food on the floor.

This means she was also spending time with you.Why is this not noticed?

because i was always the one trying to organise that time. she rarely suggested doing anything together

The family may need to feel that you are receptive to ackowledging her good points and her need to keep them in her life,her need to feel free,and also to admit that you have played a role also in the furting marriage and that it is not all her fault.That you also made mistakes and that her feelings and needs are important also.

Her families opinions dont even come into it. a marrige is between husband and wife. im not answerable to them whatsoever. rather if you follow gods word, she is answerable to me. this sounds lawalistic, but i cannot make any apology for it, as i was following gods command. dont for a minute think that i was non loving though. i often praised her for things she did good round the house, for her looks, for her dress sense amongst other things, just trying to reaffirm to her

A marriage can be damaged in many ways,but God can heal and restore ,he loves to do it.
Humilty and meekness can go a long ways in helping.

yes this is also very correct. i was in a state of deep humiliation for months after she left the first time. it was the hardest time of my life, but i chose to stick to use the time effectively to read gods word and understand him better.

She could have left more stuff, however she did leave the house for you.

she didnt take that because its too difficult to put on a truck and take away. however, she is trying to take it off me through court process. lets just take into account i bought it 2 years before her and i got married, and we didnt live together before this. she owns a unit, and took our new car. she is again disobeying gods word via the 8th commandment. thou shalt not steal.

It looks like she was feeling controlled and smothered,almost owned.Maybe she thought you felt you were near perfect and when you did make mistakes it was after all her fault.If she had been a better wife it never would have happened.The marriage can be restored,it sounds to me like she loves you and wants hope.She has tried and probably will try again,given hope.Right now she seems to be trying to prove she can and will be free.

Again a husband is to lead the family. its our god given role to lead our families to salvation. thats why god made adam first and eve as the helper. and god continues to say in the new testemant that husband is head of the house and wife answerable to him in everything.
an old saying goes, too many cooks spoil the broth. you cannot have too many cheif and not enough indians.
but what sort of husband deals with his wife harshly? it has to be done in a loving way. like said before you get better results from being nice to someone. thats why i tried for so many years to gently explain to her where she was not following gods command.

Depsite her feelings and hurts and brokeness and bitterness,she wants to forgive.

i really believe she just wants to be as nasty to me as she can, due to the fact of all she has done since leaving me the second time. Who in their right mind does things like that?

God loves to restore , on His terms though and it may not be easy.God can heal both of you and your broken hearts and the marriage.Do not give up.

Thankyou for the reaffirming words to not give up. my efforts to try show love to her are fruitless, so its all in the lords hands now. God promises to hear those who keep his commands. i know im far far from perfect, but with gods help anything is possible. all i can continue to do is repay evil for kindness, and keep walking in his ways.

Yes God does see all and the pastor does not.Nor does any human.God sees hearts.God reads minds.Not humans.Only God sees hearts.
God is forgiving and healing and she is His child and He is able to make her stand and heal her.

God does see all, and thank goodness for that! The pastor of our church has a fair idea on whats going on too. we both had talks with him, and even confronting talks for both of us. As a minister in gods word, he has some pretty good advice. Both him and i are really concearned about her salvation at this point. Theres nothing more id like to do than direct her path to it, but if she continues going against gods word, then its not looking good. as the text goes matt7:13-14 13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

[ddisciple]

However God hates divorce.

thats right, this is why i will never initiate divorce.

She might be praying the same thing.

i find that hard to believe when she is the one who is doing all the evil. Matt 7:20: by your fruits you will be known

She must have some pretty good qualities for you to want her back so much.After all not many humans are so perfect and honourable that they could be excited to have someone back in their life unless that person has some qualities.

yes she has qualities. This is what would have been the first thing to get me interested. its hard for me to recognise them when i have been treated so badly though. its more me following gods word which has me trying right about now.
If i wasnt a christian, i would have told her it was all over a long time ago by now. it has been a rough road, but god has been with me the whole way, and continues to help me through each and every day.

If you truly doubt her fidelity and are not just angry,definately get a test done.I have left the house a couple times and drove around for a bit when being swore at.No alcohol though.Cheating was not remotely on my mind.Neither did I go anywhere bad.I came home in an hour.However had I decided to spend the night gone,it would have been at a relatives.No cheating would have been on my mind.However I rather reconcile quickly and not leave for more than a couple hours and only when being swore at etc.I was not drinking, not planning anything bad.Just hurting.I do not know her though,or what was on her mind.Maybe she was just hurting.Maybe not.You know her,if you suspect her of cheating get a test done.

yes, i will be doing this

Maybe she wants you to want her and love her ,maybe she needs to know you value her and desire to be with her because you recognize her value and she is precious to you and not only the children.Yes it is wonderful that you love and care for the children but I think she wants to know she has worth as well.Not just be a servant in the home.But rather a valued and precious and loved wife.

Yes you are probably right. i think deep down everyone wants that no matter how nasty they are. this is exactly what i need too

Maybe she is saying this to see if you will decide she is worth loving and showing humilty for.Sounds like maybe there is hope.

i really dont understand female mind games, never have. i came from fairly strict christian family, such as: matt 5:37 Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

I think she feels deeply wounded and betrayed.

As do i

Truly fighting for a marriage often requires humilty and meekness and letting go of pride,setting the person free so that they come back because they know they are loved and valued and precious to you.God hates divorce and gives grace to the humble.God loves to restore,loves people to reconcile and wants people to forgive from the heart.God is able to heal both your hearts.God loves her as much as God loves you.She is worth just as much to God as you are.She is a sinner,you are a sinner.Maybe different sins,but sins nonetheless.God is merciful and compassionate and forgiving.to her as well as all His children.

Yes thats right, and he promises to punish those who go against his word, and show love and blessings to those who follow his ways. i wouldnt like to be in her shoes right about now.

Both of you need to change and not just her.I think she needs to know that you are willing to change.And especially that you are willing to admit her value and efforts and worth as a human and as a wife.Cherish her.

I have always willing to change but it has to be within gods word. i will not conform to anything thats contrary to that. In the last 18 months i have done a lot of changing, and its all been to foloow gods word more closely.

The Lord? or pride.

Nope, i wasnt the one who ended the relationship. i wasnt the one who got my family to gang up against her, i wasnt the one who nearly emptied her house, and i have never taken the kids away from her. theres no room for my pride to be an issure here. i havent been the one going against gods word.

You two can have a happy and long future together.Nothing is impossible to God.Love never fails.1 corinthians 13 describes love.
blessings
annrobert

Thankyou for your detailed reply. One thing i have to keep reminding myself to come back to is that god looks on each of our own faults. we get no excuse for doing something evil because someone did something evil against us. Rather we need to repay evil for kindness.
matt 6:14 For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. and last but not least:
Luke 6:37 "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

 

[ddisciple]

I would say she definitly sounds like a user and now you are going to be subject to child support and family law court for the next 18 or so years, depending on the damages to your net income you might want to look into going over seas to live and work so you can keep your income. The biblical issues dont really matter right now because you had cause to leave the moment she first neglected you sexually or initiated the first violence now its just a matter of avoiding extortion. You will have to start over in life and hopefully you will now know how to avoid users.

i totally know where your coming from here. And thats exactly as i would like to do. But

This is not loving ,no matter what a person tells themself.
People can often sense these attitudes and respond to them regardless how much a person claims to be pouring out love and forgiveness.
If these attitudes exist , they will be able to sense it.No matter what is said.
It is not easy to raise kids own your own while working as well.
Paying for baby sitters while working or going to a doctor,always driving to babysitters,kids school appointments,doctor visits,emergency visits,dental appointments, doing everything on your own and no help,all at the same time as working a job.A person needs to have compassion even if they are feeling resentment .
Coming home from work and still have several hours of work to do.
Getting up and driving a sick child to hospital in the middle of the night and having to bring all the children with you as well as the sick one, then get up and get the children ready for baby sitter or school drive them there and then off to work.
All yourself.
Paying all the expenses on your own , daycare and possibly not a penny to spare ,doctor visits and dental visits.
Not easy.Not fair.
Both parents are to share the responsibilty of raising the children.Not escape the country , and leave the children without the love and nuture of the parent.
wanting to be able to do this and thinking you would like to will generally show up in attitude.
Also wanting it seems like a lack of love for the children and your partner.
It can often be sensed by the other partner.
The children do not deserve to be abandoned .
What if both parents abandoned the children.
sad


1 Corinthians 13


1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity

you might not have read the post of mine just under that bit. it is never my wish to abandon the kids, or (ex) wife. rather she has abaondoned me, sometimes i think after all she has done, id like to leave the country, but it wont happen. just to recap, i posted this directly underneath with is why i ended the statement with 'but'

the thing is in australia it takes 12 months from the day she left me till divorce papers can be submitted. not sure if its the same elsewhere. so that means i have to hope and pray for her and practise forgiveness.

She is going totally against god right about now, and me and the kids (theyre too little to know) but everyone has the chance for forgiveness. Each time she said she hated me, or yelled at me to go to hell i always forgave her. each punch in the face and abusive word i always forgace her. even though she didnt ask for forgiveness or be nice to me.
i went through a lot of physical and emotional torment over the years, i cant even begin to describe how much iv been hurt.
theres a couple of things that are keeping me where i am and praying for her though.

1 husbands love your wifes like christ first loved the church (i need to love my wife as the weaker vessel, and put my life aside for her. this even includes what she has done to me, and continues to do so)

2 i promised her and god to love her through the good times and the bad in the wedding vows. (i didnt know how hard things where going to be, but i sure promised i would stay and love through the hard times, id like to think someone loved and cared enough for me to still stick by me if i went off the rails and to take all the hardship for the sake of my salvation)

3 Romans 7:3 So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man. ( the reverse of that is she is divorcing me, so technically i would become an adulterer if i married another woman)

 

[annrobert]

ddisciple,

I am sorry if I was too striaght forward here.I realize you are hurting.However Because you asked for advice and because you say you want the relationship restored........
I tried to give you a perspective that your wife may be feeling.
I thought maybe if you were able to understand her hurts and brokeness...
The efforts that she has put in.......
Her good points.......
it may be beneficial to helping restore the marriage.

Yes thats right, and he promises to punish those who go against his word, and show love and blessings to those who follow his ways. i wouldnt like to be in her shoes right about now.

You admitted to doing much against God's word as well,what makes you think you are forgivable and get blessings but she gets punishment.If you get forgiveness when you repent ,she gets forgiveness when she repents as God is no respector of persons and shows no favoritism.God is able to make her stand and restore her as well as you.Maybe not on the same day.

And thats exactly as i would like to do

Maybe trying to follow God's law stops you,but she needs to feel love from your heart.That is mostly what I mean.



I was referring mostly to the attitude her that is usually sensed by the other partner.

i find that hard to believe when she is the one who is doing all the evil

She may find it hard to want to come back to someone who says she is the one doing all the evil.
To want to come back she will have to know you see her good.


You admitted to doing evil as well

Also when you said you spent all the time with her it would have been more accurate to say we spent time together,this way her good points and efforts get acknowledged as well.

Anyways I was just trying to help you see what may be her perspective on things.You did ask for advice and I thought it may be beneficial for you to see how she may be viewing things...
Her hurts and brokeness and needs and efforts and good points.
I am sorry if it hurt your feelings,yet I thought it was more important to win her back than compare who is more righteous or who is not.
I really do hope that Jesus restores your marriage.
Blessings
annrobert

 

[road dog 1]

I feel for you mate, MY wife decided to give it up also after 20 years and 4 great kids, she also listened to her parents, i'd say her mum must have not really liked you and probably the same for her dad if he is still alive. My mistake was moving closer to the in laws, and it must be built in woman to cut us off from conversation as mine did also and i know exactly what you mean and felt like when you were around her parents. They were probably controlling type of people and your wife had a hard time cutting the strings. I'd say her problem was that day away before marriage, maybe she never forgave herself and what might have happened was something done or said that changed her personality. As far as her hitting you during pregnancy, that may be chemical changes in her body. Did you forgive her and tell her that? Maybe subconciously she still feels that guilt and has not dealt with it yet and things kept building up inside of her from then on. I know it hurts, and it still does for me. Ask God to help you forgive yourself too, as far as the other woman its only natural to want closeness and conversation, we had that problem also, everyone screws up at some point, the trick is not to give up and go on, not easy believe me I understand, my prayers are with you both.

 

[ddisciple]

ddisciple,

I am sorry if I was too striaght forward here.I realize you are hurting.However Because you asked for advice and because you say you want the relationship restored........
I tried to give you a perspective that your wife may be feeling.
I thought maybe if you were able to understand her hurts and brokeness...
The efforts that she has put in.......
Her good points.......
it may be beneficial to helping restore the marriage.




You admitted to doing much against God's word as well,what makes you think you are forgivable and get blessings but she gets punishment.If you get forgiveness when you repent ,she gets forgiveness when she repents as God is no respector of persons and shows no favoritism.God is able to make her stand and restore her as well as you.Maybe not on the same day.



Maybe trying to follow God's law stops you,but she needs to feel love from your heart.That is mostly what I mean.



I was referring mostly to the attitude her that is usually sensed by the other partner.



She may find it hard to want to come back to someone who says she is the one doing all the evil.
To want to come back she will have to know you see her good.


You admitted to doing evil as well

Also when you said you spent all the time with her it would have been more accurate to say we spent time together,this way her good points and efforts get acknowledged as well.

Anyways I was just trying to help you see what may be her perspective on things.You did ask for advice and I thought it may be beneficial for you to see how she may be viewing things...
Her hurts and brokeness and needs and efforts and good points.
I am sorry if it hurt your feelings,yet I thought it was more important to win her back than compare who is more righteous or who is not.
I really do hope that Jesus restores your marriage.
Blessings
annrobert

No apology needed. I asked for peoples ideas on the subject, and im definately not going to shoot the messenger

Its good to get an idea on what other wifes might think as to what she might think. its pretty much in the lords hands now. theres not a lot i can do except follow the ways of the lord.
Reason i feel as if she will be the one to get punished is that fact she is continuing in unriteousness. i have fallen, realised my mistakes and have taken dramatic steps to never commit the same sin/s again. i am truly repentant, where as my wife isnt.
she continues to act against gods word, and it saddens me. i hope and pray that she realises her mistakes and repents before its too late. Each and every one of us are sinners, but if we continue in our wrong ways we are going against god.

I know some of my reply sounds all about law, but this is the step i have taken once i exhausted all my other options of showing love. im never a good one for getting things into words right. Im definately not the sort of husband who has a mean approach, or who only fills the tank enough for my own use. i have tried my best to keep her love bank filled, and keep her happy, but when someone continually rejects you for so long, you get a bit tired out and seek the manufacturers instructions.

she had threatened to leave me, take the kids and ill come home to an empty house for so many years before she actually did it. so why am i so focussed on the law right about now you ask? its because i couldnt ever do it right for her on my own love or understanding so i turned to the lord.

thanks again for your ideas

 

[ddisciple]

I feel for you mate, MY wife decided to give it up also after 20 years and 4 great kids, she also listened to her parents, i'd say her mum must have not really liked you and probably the same for her dad if he is still alive. My mistake was moving closer to the in laws, and it must be built in woman to cut us off from conversation as mine did also and i know exactly what you mean and felt like when you were around her parents. They were probably controlling type of people and your wife had a hard time cutting the strings. I'd say her problem was that day away before marriage, maybe she never forgave herself and what might have happened was something done or said that changed her personality. As far as her hitting you during pregnancy, that may be chemical changes in her body. Did you forgive her and tell her that? Maybe subconciously she still feels that guilt and has not dealt with it yet and things kept building up inside of her from then on. I know it hurts, and it still does for me. Ask God to help you forgive yourself too, as far as the other woman its only natural to want closeness and conversation, we had that problem also, everyone screws up at some point, the trick is not to give up and go on, not easy believe me I understand, my prayers are with you both.

Thanks road dog 1
i always have had an uneasy feeling about my wifes parents ever since they suggested she find someone else around the time she left me before marriage.
Her father is still alive, and has turned against me also. Something i forgot to mention in this whole thing is my wifes parents moved away from their hometown because my father in law saw the writing on the wall in regards to his mother in law (my wifes nanna). They moved 10 hours away and started a new life because the soul strings where still attached between my mother in law and her mother. Fortunately they are still together. The whole family knows how their nanna is and how she likes to have her way, but they have not realised how theyre taking controll of my wife (their daughters) life and coaxed her away from me. suggested she have a better life without me, and supported her to do so. i started to see that things where going down hill again when she moved back, and started looking round for a job elsewhere and looking at houses. i was prepaired to leave everything and move away to save my marriage, but my wife dug her heels in and didnt want to go. its strange, because she was looking forward to it at first, but after a few eeeks, she 'suddenly' turned against it. im fairly sure her mother realised i was trying to save the marriage and talked her out of it (again my wife taking her mothers advice over mine)

i forgave her for being physically violent , and told her i did. i looked her in the eye and put a lot of heart into making her feel loved again.

Thanks for your prayers

 

[annrobert]

No apology needed. I asked for peoples ideas on the subject, and im definately not going to shoot the messenger

Okay thanks ddisciple.I still have a few more thoughts.

Its good to get an idea on what other wifes might think as to what she might think.

Hopefully it can help out somehow.Their is still time to save you marriage.I think much hope maybe.

its pretty much in the lords hands now. theres not a lot i can do except follow the ways of the lord.

You wrote somewhere about humiliation.I do not think anyone should have to be humiliated.That is different though than humilty,or meek and lowly in heart.If both partners could try to be this way with each other ,maybe marriages would be easier and save heartache.

Reason i feel as if she will be the one to get punished is that fact she is continuing in unriteousness.

I am not sure she is continuing in unrighteousness.She has biblical grounds for divorce.Just because you say to her sorry does mean she has to stay.She did try counselling with you and it looks like she tried to get over it and I think she will.I think she will come back and try again ,at least from reading the posts it sounds like she loves you and wants hope to try again.I know you say you want hope too.However since she left already ,you may need to be the one trying hard.Maybe afterwards she will also give hope back.
Also you say she is the one doing all the evil ,yet you admit to adultery and losing interest and patience wearing thin and getting cranky.
This is not to run anyone down,it is just to show you both hurt each other greatly.No one is perfect,not you,and not her.
You are both hurting and broken ,you have both hurt each other.
You have both loved on each other and spent time together and got counselling,showing you were both trying to make it work.
You both can have a happy future together.Both of you loved on each other and both of you tried and both of you also hurt each other.Yet Jesus loves reconciliation.


i have fallen, realised my mistakes and have taken dramatic steps to never commit the same sin/s again. i am truly repentant, where as my wife isnt.
You have realized your mistake of adultery and repented,however this does not take away her biblical grounds for divorce.Although I think good chance in her heart she is hoping it never comes to that.
As for never repeating getting cranky ,angry,patience growing thin,snapping and losing interest,does take an ongoing soft heart and tenderness and work on both sides.Meaning both sides will make these mistakes at times,and it will be an effort to quickly reconcile and not carry grudges in our heart.I do not mean just saying sorry,but rather and ongoing tenderness and softness,no secret grudges.Realizing that mistakes and hard feelings may arise but the heart must stay soft toward each other.

she continues to act against gods word, and it saddens me. i hope and pray that she realises her mistakes and repents before its too late. Each and every one of us are sinners, but if we continue in our wrong ways we are going against god.

The bible says before her own Master she stands or falls and she will stand because God is able to make her stand.Pray for her with compassion definately.But Jesus does go after the lost sheep.Nevertheless she does have biblical grounds for divorce, yet I honestly think in heart heart she hopes it never comes to that.I may be wrong.Still God can melt hearts and instill hope,soft and tender hearts and humility also helps melt hearts.

I know some of my reply sounds all about law,

Yes ,she may be thinking about law also and her grounds for divorce.
But nothing is impossible with God,working on both of your hearts.
Loving your wife like Christ love the church is more than following laws and proper actions,it is love and forgiveness from the heart,genuine compassion.Thinking about her feelings.

but this is the step i have taken once i exhausted all my other options of showing love.

You showed love lots of times and so did she by reading your past posts.You were not always showing love,by reading your past posts.
The anger and thin patience and adultery, losing interest are not showing love.Love is more than a feeling,love is powerful.I realize you showed love lots of times in you short marriage, but not always.The adultery happened only 3 years after marriage.I realize she dot always feel love either.

im never a good one for getting things into words right. Im definately not the sort of husband who has a mean approach, or who only fills the tank enough for my own use. i have tried my best to keep her love bank filled, and keep her happy,

I do not think you are mean or wicked and neither do I think your wife is.You have both made mistakes and hurt each other.You have also both tried to love on each other.You have both attended counselling.I think you are both fairly average people.If you both did divorce you would just have a new set of problems in your next marriage.Hopefully though you two can reconcile and have a long happy future together and be stronger and have more strong love.I would not give up,I would keep hoping.



but when someone continually rejects you for so long, you get a bit tired out and seek the manufacturers instructions.

she had threatened to leave me, take the kids and ill come home to an empty house for so many years

okay 3 years before seperation,she started this as soon as you two got married?This has been a short marriage so far.

before she actually did it. so why am i so focussed on the law right about now you ask? its because i couldnt ever do it right for her on my own love or understanding so i turned to the lord.

she is again disobeying gods word via the 8th commandment. thou shalt not steal.

You say the house is yours and everything in it.So she should have started working and building up a career as soon as you two got married rather than have babies and take care of home.This way she would have had some security for the future rather than not owning a thing.Feeling that nothing is yours and you are just mooching must not be a good feeling.She honestly should have had enough responsibilty to have began working and saving and helping buy things so that she could have some of her own belongings and assets.If you two do reconcile and hopefully you do. I think she needs to get a job ASAP to protect her future and have some belongings of her own and assets ,so as not to be mooching off of anyone, and protect herself.



thanks again for your ideas

hoping God heals and restores and stengthens you and your wife and your marriage
many blessings
annrobert

 

[ddisciple]

Hopefully it can help out somehow.Their is still time to save you marriage.I think much hope maybe.

Yes with all God all things are possible

You wrote somewhere about humiliation.I do not think anyone should have to be humiliated.That is different though than humilty,or meek and lowly in heart.If both partners could try to be this way with each other ,maybe marriages would be easier and save heartache.

yes, thats right. i wish she would stop trying to humiliate me

I am not sure she is continuing in unrighteousness.She has biblical grounds for divorce.Just because you say to her sorry does mean she has to stay.She did try counselling with you and it looks like she tried to get over it and I think she will.I think she will come back and try again ,at least from reading the posts it sounds like she loves you and wants hope to try again.I know you say you want hope too.However since she left already ,you may need to be the one trying hard.Maybe afterwards she will also give hope back.
Also you say she is the one doing all the evil ,yet you admit to adultery and losing interest and patience wearing thin and getting cranky.
This is not to run anyone down,it is just to show you both hurt each other greatly.No one is perfect,not you,and not her.
You are both hurting and broken ,you have both hurt each other.
You have both loved on each other and spent time together and got counselling,showing you were both trying to make it work.
You both can have a happy future together.Both of you loved on each other and both of you tried and both of you also hurt each other.Yet Jesus loves reconciliation.

I dont agree with her having biblical grounds for divorce.
Actually jesus tells us we are to forgive in matthew 18:21-22. i came to genuine repentance and took big steps to never commit that sin again. i poured out the love to her over the next 6 months to show her i was truly sorry. (even though she said and did some very nasty things to me) jesus also caught a woman in the very act of adultery, and said go and sin no more for your sins are forgiven. So the fact that she has departed means she is living in sin, and continues to do so. (also she continues to do nasty things to me)

1 corinthians 7:10-11 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

i worked so hard to restore our marrige. I think this is where you are getting the wrong idea. i was the one doing all the work. its easy for someone to walk back in the door when all there love needs are being met. you make it sound like she was making a big effort also, where as i dont believe she was trying nearly as hard as me. I was very worn down and in need of love and affection for years (hence why i fell into the devils trap of talking with someone else) this is still continuing and she continues to be nasty, hence continuing in the paths of unriteousness.

You have realized your mistake of adultery and repented,however this does not take away her biblical grounds for divorce.Although I think good chance in her heart she is hoping it never comes to that.
As for never repeating getting cranky ,angry,patience growing thin,snapping and losing interest,does take an ongoing soft heart and tenderness and work on both sides.Meaning both sides will make these mistakes at times,and it will be an effort to quickly reconcile and not carry grudges in our heart.I do not mean just saying sorry,but rather and ongoing tenderness and softness,no secret grudges.Realizing that mistakes and hard feelings may arise but the heart must stay soft toward each other.

i am really finding it hard to see where you think she hopes it never comes to divorce in her heart.
SHE left me again. she said she is never coming back, she took the kids away, and i didnt even know where they where, she holds them against their wills, she contacted a solicitor before she even left, she said she WILL divorce me.
This is where i think you definately have the wrong idea. there has been nothing to show me she doesnt want divorce.

I have been the one being tender and soft hearted for years, i have never threatened to divorce her. i have never taken the kids away from her, i have never moved into my parents house away from her, i have never punched her (let alone in the face) i have never spat on her.
These are all things i have forgiven her for, but she continues to do these things to me.

Matthew 6:15 But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
so if she had forgiven me for my sin, she wouldnt have moved out on me again, she wouldnt be continually doing nasty things to me. you have to remember, just because someone does something against you doesnt mean its right for you to sin.
Each time i realise i have sinned against her, i tell her im sorry, and ask for forgiveness. Even after she left me for the second time, and took our kids away, nearly emptied the house, i said i forgave her.
Has she said she is sorry to me for all the things she has done? definately not, infact she seems to get delight in hurting me more and more.

The bible says before her own Master she stands or falls and she will stand because God is able to make her stand.Pray for her with compassion definately.But Jesus does go after the lost sheep.Nevertheless she does have biblical grounds for divorce, yet I honestly think in heart heart she hopes it never comes to that.I may be wrong.Still God can melt hearts and instill hope,soft and tender hearts and humility also helps melt hearts.

i know for fact she wants divorce, because she has told me this so many many times. i dont agree wiht her having biblical grounds for divorce.

You showed love lots of times and so did she by reading your past posts.You were not always showing love,by reading your past posts.
The anger and thin patience and adultery, losing interest are not showing love.Love is more than a feeling,love is powerful.I realize you showed love lots of times in you short marriage, but not always.The adultery happened only 3 years after marriage.I realize she dot always feel love either.

I may not have been showing love to her as i should, but i ask everyone else. how would you go keeping the love up to someone when they hit you in the face, spit on you, take your kids away, clean your house out, continually call you bad names, always take someone elses advice over yours?

pretty hard thing to do
and i never threatened to go find someone else and have kids with them.

I do not think you are mean or wicked and neither do I think your wife is.You have both made mistakes and hurt each other.You have also both tried to love on each other.You have both attended counselling.I think you are both fairly average people.If you both did divorce you would just have a new set of problems in your next marriage.Hopefully though you two can reconcile and have a long happy future together and be stronger and have more strong love.I would not give up,I would keep hoping.

yes, i hold hope for her

You say the house is yours and everything in it.So she should have started working and building up a career as soon as you two got married rather than have babies and take care of home.This way she would have had some security for the future rather than not owning a thing.Feeling that nothing is yours and you are just mooching must not be a good feeling.She honestly should have had enough responsibilty to have began working and saving and helping buy things so that she could have some of her own belongings and assets.If you two do reconcile and hopefully you do. I think she needs to get a job ASAP to protect her future and have some belongings of her own and assets ,so as not to be mooching off of anyone, and protect herself.

You are suggesting that she go against gods word? god says in titus 2:4-5 4and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, 5to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.

i cant remember if i included it in any of the previous posts, but she has a unit/house. its a rental property of ours. i have never threatened to try take that off her.
she took our new car, she took most of the household belongings, she took a lot of my things. She didnt even sit down and say she wanted to take this or that, she got her family to come in and her her take all she wanted.



After reading through all your responses i can see what you are getting at. You are pushing the forgiveness kart which is just as we are to do. Thankyou for your ideas and responses. it is a good reminder that we are to forgive and continue loving through all the hardships.

I have been reading the word of god over the last few years, and been studying his word. sometimes you can feel the lord directing different passages and verses as you read and study. its good to be equipped for every good work.

Whats the best built house? one that has strong foundations. how do you lay foundations right? with an experienced builder.

Whats the best foundation for marriage? a good foundation. how do you lay the foundations to marriage right? with the word of god.

when you lay the foundations of marriage you need to stick by the word of god. which includes wifes being submissive to their husbands in everything (ephesians 5) husbands are to love their wifes as christ first loved the church. Husbands are to lead their families to christ, which is why christ appointed man as head of the house.

When you have all the ground rules of god in place, then you can look into each and others needs and fulfill them as long as theyre according to the word.

i came across a really good article the other day on how husbands and wifes are to live according to gods word. i tried to post it up, but im supposed to have a minimum of 50 posts before i can post links. if i message the link to someone, can you post it for me?

 

[annrobert]

Actually jesus tells us we are to forgive in matthew 18:21-22. i came to genuine repentance and took big steps to never commit that sin again. i poured out the love to her over the next 6 months to show her i was truly sorry. (even though she said and did some very nasty things to me) jesus also caught a woman in the very act of adultery, and said go and sin no more for your sins are forgiven. So the fact that she has departed means she is living in sin, and continues to do so. (also she continues to do nasty things to me)

Love and forgiveness is so much better than law.Tender and soft hearts.(smile)

i am really finding it hard to see where you think she hopes it never comes to divorce in her heart

A few things....
Instead of screaming out I will never forgive you.....,she said I'll try.
She has gone to counselling with you ,i think more than once.Even after the adultery,which to me points to her loving you and hoping to make the marriage heal.
You have said in the three year hurting marriage that there have been times of love and closeness, it shows great hope..These are some of the things that make me think that.You said , she said once I cannot do it,it is too hard.To me she was only thinking it was too hard, NOT that she did not love you and want to be with you..So if she thinks the marriage will be easier and can be fulfilling she may change her mind.Also people say things out of hurt.She went to counselling,that can only be because she wants to be with you and have a life with you,eg love.Just my thoughts.I think there was more things also.

She needs to work so as not to be a charity case,she needs to be responsible.

Blessings to you and your wife.
You have so much hope, and having children together is all the more reason to hope .
You can have a great and fulfilling life together.
Jesus loves restoring hearts and relationships.
Jesus loves healing and comforting and strengthening.
If you two get through this it can make you extra strong together
I pray and wish all the best for you and your wife and children.
annrobert

 

[annrobert]

When you think about with being young,a short marriage with tension and strain and babies right away.
You two have not had time to learn how to live married,share your lives ,the give and takes and the compromises and giving and receiving .
Just so much you have not had time to learn yet.
These kind of things take time.
Also I have read that marriages go through a crisis point around 3 or 4 years and then again at 7.Not sure whether true or not,but I heard or read that somewhere.
blessings

 

[ddisciple]

Thankyou Annrobert for your ideas. i must say, i would have never thought she would have wanted the marriage to work after the steps she has taken since leaving me for the second time.

its great to get another persons point of view on the story. At this point in the battle, i have withdrawn from doing anything that remotely shows any interest from me, as it always gets returned in nasty, and im not sure how much more i can take. im not doing anything to push her away by any means.
i put a thread up in depression which explains where im at to a certain extent

From a mans point of view we say something and mean what we say. i cannot for a minute understand someone who says some things and means others. i take whats said to me and believe its the truth.
The comforting part is god sees all, and knows motives of all.
God bless all

 

[annrobert]

Thankyou Annrobert for your ideas. i must say, i would have never thought she would have wanted the marriage to work after the steps she has taken since leaving me for the second time.

The steps are possibly only because she is doubting that it can work , but I think she hopes it can in her heart.I think she wants to see signs that it can work, and that there may be hope.

its great to get another persons point of view on the story. At this point in the battle, i have withdrawn from doing anything that remotely shows any interest from me,

i find that hard to believe when she is the one who is doing all the evil

She may be hoping to see interest , and hoping that you do not see her as the one doing all the evil , her as the one that caused all your mistakes plus hers.If she caused your mistakes by her actions , then does that mean that you provoked her mistakes by your actions?She might be hoping you see value in her.

If a person committs adultery and then repents to God and says sorry to their spouse, that does not mean that the spouses shattered heart will be immediately healed and trust restored.That takes time and humilty.



as it always gets returned in nasty, and im not sure how much more i can take. im not doing anything to push her away by any means.
i put a thread up in depression which explains where im at to a certain extent

From a mans point of view we say something and mean what we say.

Maybe some men but not all men.
I do not think she is playing games and saying one thing and meaning another.
when she said she will try to forgive I think she means it.
When she said it is just too hard I think she means it ,
although I think if she feels hope that it will become easier she may change her mind
I think when she threatened divorce she meant it ......unless she saw hope for a better future.
I think the words are meant , but I think she says them to see if by some chance there can be hope for a happy marriage.Why would she say it unless she was hoping? when she could have just went and done it without saying anything.
I think she means it unless......she sees hope.

i cannot for a minute understand someone who says some things and means others. i take whats said to me and believe its the truth.
The comforting part is god sees all, and knows motives of all.
God bless all

This is again just an example of how she might be viewing things.
I hope things might be beginning to look up.
Never give up hope and keep on trying because nothing is impossible to God.

 

[HuntingMan]

1 corinthians 7:10-11 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

The REST of the story...

"Remain Unmarried or reconcile” vs "not in bondage"
by Wm Tipton

Assertions/Conclusions of this Article
We will show briefly that the commandment of the Lord to ‘remain unmarried or reconcile’ is NOT a blanket commandment in all marital situations where a breaking of the marriage is taking place, but is instead directed to two believers who have left their marriage without just cause, and that Paul also had no commandment for those marriages that weren’t equally yoked, didnt given the same instruction to these who were married to an unbeliever, not having any commandment from the Lord in the matter, and then also offered a concession not given to those who were equally yoked to another believer who had left their marriage for whatever frivolous reason.

Supporting Evidence

Firstly lets look at the actual passages

"And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. (1Co 7:10-11 KJV)

vs

"But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. (1Co 7:12- * KJV)

1.0
"Remain Unmarried or reconcile”

"And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord,

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist or brain surgeon or even a biblical scholar to look at that passage as a whole to see that Paul is speaking to two groups there. The first being those where obviously both the husband and the wife are both listening since Paul addresses both of them therein.
This idea is made absolute by Pauls making a clear distinction in his next words in saying “BUT TO THE REST SPEAK I, NOT THE LORD” where he shows clearly that he is now speaking to ‘the rest’ of married couples who do not fall into whatever category as the first group fell. These are defined as being those who are married to someone who ‘believeth not’ which we understand as as ‘unequally yoked’ marriage.

Notice that Paul makes it very clear that to these who ARENT married to someone who ‘believeth not’ that he isnt speaking, but the Lord is giving commandment to these.
Easy enough concept to see, to understand and to accept for those reading and being honest enough to let the words say what they simply state.

To these who arent married to someone who ‘believed not’, these are married to someone who instead is a believer. They cannot be anything else or otherwise Pauls words “BUT TO THE REST” when he speaks to the rest who are married make no logical sense whatsoever.
These in verses 7:10-11 MUST be those who are NOT married to someone who ‘believeth not’ but MUST be to those marriages where the person being spoken to is married to a believer. Being honest with ourselves, we accept the targets of these words to be those marriages where both persons are a believer...ie ‘equally yoked’.

To these, Paul shows that the Lord has given commandment if they depart to remain unmarried (ARAMOC/agamos/single/unwed) or reconcile with the man she left”
This makes logical sense and harmonizes quite well with Gods whole word and is even completely logical even if we set scripture aside for a moment.
These are two people who have compatible beliefs who, for whatever reason, have left their marriage who, as christians, should be quite interested in working together as ALL believers in Christ should be doing in order to be in harmony with one another.
BOTH of these persons, as followers of Jesus Christ, having entered a marital covenant and having set it aside for whatever frivolous reasonings, should be willing to work together to reunite what they created together previously and set aside without just cause.
The Lord has commanded these two believers to remain unmarried or reconcile this marriage cast away without just cause (as historical evidence of Corinth is quite capable of showing. That area was not exactly morally sound).


2.0
"not in bondage"

"But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not,

Now we move on ‘to the rest’....to those marriages where Paul is addressing the believer who is married to one who ‘believeth not’.

This is the greek for the ‘rest’...

G3062
Thayer Definition:
1) remaining, the rest
1a) the rest of any number or class under consideration
1b) with a certain distinction and contrast, the rest, who are not of a specific class or number
1c) the rest of the things that remain

These ‘rest’ are those that remain of the groups under consideration, which are clearly those whoare ‘married’. This ‘rest’ are those who are married to unbelievers, clearly indicating that the groups being spoken to in verses 7:10-11 are those who are believers married to believers...in other words, equally yoked.
Since the ‘rest’ are those who are Unequally yoked, logically there is no way that that Paul is speaking to ‘the rest’ in verses 7:10-11 then turning right around and addressing ‘the rest’ again starting in verse 7:12.

To ‘the rest’ who are clearly believers unequally yoked to unbelievers Paul has no commandment of the Lord but is clearly speaking his own mind in the matter. Believing that Paul may not be speaking by direct commandment, we still accept that he is speaking by inspiration of the Holy Spirit and thus his words are ‘law’ for these married to an unbelieving spouse.

Firstly we notice that Pauls words offer a more conditional tone.
“IF a brother has a wife who is pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away”.
If this brother is married to an unbelieving wife who wants to live in peace with him, then he should not put her away.
This church had asked questions of Paul and based on Pauls response its easy to determine that they must have believed that if they became born again, that somehow they were defiled by being with an unbelieving husband.
Paul lets them know in this passage that that isnt the case. The unbelieving spouse is sanctified by the believer (in a physical or spiritual ‘cleaness’ type of manner, not meaning a free ride to heaven without repentance or anything like that).
These clearly were under the impression that it might be ok to just walk out of a marriage if they became saved, yet their spouse did not.
Paul straightens out this erroneous viewpoint and lets them know that if the the unbeliever is mutually ‘pleased’ along with the believer and wants to remain in the marriage, then they arent to put them away, and may even be key to their spouses salvation.

Paul then goes on to give concession not given to the two believers above.
First there was no commandment at all from the Lord to these as with the equally yoked marriage, but Paul now tells these that if the unbeliever wishes to depart the marriage that the believer isnt in bondage to this marriage.

Instead of repeating other studies here, please see these articles:
"Let not man Put Asunder" vs "let the unbeliever depart"
Does the bible permit putting away a spouse for abuse?

Now, these folks will casually leave out that Paul gives instruction to TWO different married groups there and try to apply 1 Cor 7:10-11 to ALL marriages, but this makes Pauls statement of ‘BUT TO THE REST” and everything that follows completely illogical and unable to be harmonized with the whole properly.
And the reason they need to pull this deceptive tactic is because they like what the Lord has commanded in verses 7:10-11, but they arent too happy with Pauls concession in 7:12 and after. It completely destroys these false teachings of theirs that Paul offers this idea that the believer might not be forced to remain bound in marriage to an unbeliever in whatever circumstance, and so they force the text to give instruction to a group of people, those unequally yoked, that Paul CLEARLY says he has no word from the Lord to.

Thankfully, you readers are quite capable of seeing the wording used for yourself and seeing what is actually presented by Gods whole word....

Additional Evidence

1Co 7:12 But1161 to the3588 rest3062 speak3004 I,1473 not3756 the3588 Lord:2962 If any1536 brother80 hath2192 a wife1135 that believeth not,571 and2532 she846 be pleased4909 to dwell3611 with3326 him,846 let him not3361 put her away.863, 846

rest3062
G3062
λοιποί
loipoi
Thayer Definition:
1) remaining, the rest
1a) the rest of any number or class under consideration
1b) with a certain distinction and contrast, the rest, who are not of a specific class or number
1c) the rest of the things that remain

1Co 7:12 - to the rest--
the other classes (besides "the married," 1Co_7:10, where both husband and wife are believers) about whom the Corinthians had inquired, namely, those involved in mixed marriages with unbelievers.
-Jameson, Faucet& Brown

He has been speaking to the unmarried (1Co_7:8) and to married parties, both of whom were Christians (1Co_7:10). By the rest he means married couples, one of which remained a heathen.
-Vincents Word Studies