Life Expectancy in Red States vs Blue States

[iluvatar5150]

Farm bankruptcies are up despite government subsidies. People in the cities depend on cheap food, which translates to low farm prices and marginal profits, which often put the farmer in a financial bind. The tariffs aren't helping either. If you want cheap food you must make up for those low prices by subsidizing the farmer. Without subsidies food production would collapse.

Net Farm Income Projected to Drop to 12-Year Low

People in non-urban areas depend on even cheaper food.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I thought this was a capitalist economy? Nothing is stopping farmers from raising their prices.

Farmers don't control the price of their products.

Also, note that the article you posted says that overall, farming households have higher average and median incomes than the average American household. They're just not getting that income from the farm itself.

Off-farm income combined with farm income accounts for higher than average income. However many more work hours are involved. Also off-farm income can be considered 'big city' income as well, so there's a dichotomy in regard to the argument. These off-farm high incomes are not earned in small rural towns but in major population centers. Also many farmers are under water debt wise, requiring off-farm incomes to survive and continue farming.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Farmers don't control the price of their products.

Does the government set the price of farm goods? If not, then the farmers absolutely control the prices. They're under no obligation to sell to buyers at the price those buyers offer. If enough farmers demand a higher price for their goods, they can get it. That's the law of supply and demand.

Off-farm income combined with farm income accounts for higher than average income. However many more work hours are involved.

Irrelevant to the point being made.

Also off-farm income can be considered 'big city' income as well, so there's a dichotomy in regard to the argument. These off-farm high incomes are not earned in small rural towns but in major population centers.

I think that this varies. These certainly aren't "big city" sources of income: 7 sources of off-farm income

Furthermore, I think we might have different ideas of what defines a "big city".

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Does the government set the price of farm goods? If not, then the farmers absolutely control the prices. They're under no obligation to sell to buyers at the price those buyers offer. If enough farmers demand a higher price for their goods, they can get it. That's the law of supply and demand.

Government price supports and subsidies determine the price farmers are paid. The farmers have little say in it.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

dp

 

[iluvatar5150]

Does the government set the price of farm goods? If not, then the farmers absolutely control the prices. They're under no obligation to sell to buyers at the price those buyers offer. If enough farmers demand a higher price for their goods, they can get it. That's the law of supply and demand.

eh.... In some cases, the government does set the prices (e.g. milk, IIRC); in many others, they manipulate the market a ton. When there are a lot of participants in a market, it's very hard for any one agent within it to move the price much at all.

In the section I bolded, what you're describing is a cartel. I'm not necessarily opposed to that, and some agricultural industries do have legal cartels to protect small producers (I recall hearing about cartels for producers of maple syrup and swiss cheese), but cartels are hard to maintain and doing so can require a rather heavy hand to punish folks who'd skirt the cartel's rules.

 

[DaisyDay]

Does the government set the price of farm goods? If not, then the farmers absolutely control the prices.

No, that's not true. Farmers rarely sell direct. Farmers don't control the market, the middlemen do.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

No, that's not true. Farmers rarely sell direct. Farmers don't control the market, the middlemen do.

Correct, but my understanding (which may be wrong, I'll admit - I'm no farmer) is that the farmers are under no obligation to sell for the price that the middleman offers. There would need to be a critical mass of farmers demanding higher prices for it to actually work, since the market is so large, but it could be done.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Correct, but my understanding (which may be wrong, I'll admit - I'm no farmer) is that the farmers are under no obligation to sell for the price that the middleman offers. There would need to be a critical mass of farmers demanding higher prices for it to actually work, since the market is so large, but it could be done.

Again, that’s what a cartel is. They’re tricky to execute well and possibly illegal.