Life at Conception is un-Christian

[fatherjimparker]

Any proof? Evidence?

The Didache (First century Christian catechisis)
2:2 Do not commit murder; do not commit adultery; do not corrupt boys; do not have illicit sex; do not steal; do not practice magic; do not practice witchcraft; you shall not murder a child, whether it be born or unborn. Do not covet the things of your neighbor.

 

[Givemeareason]

Brilliant response.

You best effort, I assume.

You ignored the content of my post so I returned the favor. How do you explain the pro-choice position of the Southern Baptist Convention then?

 

[fatherjimparker]

<<You ignored the content of my post so I returned the favor.>>

I ignored most of your post as it was a childish hissy-fit.

<<How do you explain the pro-choice position of the Southern Baptist Convention then?>>

They're Christians. They have a habit of adhering to Christian doctrine and Christianity has been "pro life" since its beginning.

 

[Givemeareason]

<<You ignored the content of my post so I returned the favor.>>

I ignored most of your post as it was a childish hissy-fit.

<<How do you explain the pro-choice position of the Southern Baptist Convention then?>>

They're Christians. They have a habit of adhering to Christian doctrine and Christianity has been "pro life" since its beginning.

Are you having a vision problem? I asked you in light of your claims why the Southern Baptist Convention was pro-choice..... not pro-life?

 

[fatherjimparker]

<<Are you having a vision problem? >>

Yes.

<<I asked you in light of your claims why the Southern Baptist Convention was pro-choice..... not pro-life?>>

They are now pro-life, the proper Christian position.

If they had been pro-choice, as you stated in your hissy-fit about Fallwell and fundamentalists (who just aren't intelligent enough to comprehend the brilliance of your position that people should have the right to choose to murder their infants) they were in error and "ol' Jerry" set them straight.

Good for him.

 

[fatherjimparker]

<<Are you having a vision problem? >>

Yes.

<<I asked you in light of your claims why the Southern Baptist Convention was pro-choice..... not pro-life?>>

They are now pro-life, the proper Christian position.

If they had been pro-choice, as you stated in your hissy-fit about Fallwell and fundamentalists (who just aren't intelligent enough to comprehend the brilliance of your position that people should have the right to choose to murder their infants) they were in error and "ol' Jerry" set them straight.

Good for him.

Beyond that, you'll have to ask someone who is a member of the SBC. I'm not on the distribution list for the the minutes of their meetings.

 

[Givemeareason]

<<Are you having a vision problem? >>

Yes.

<<I asked you in light of your claims why the Southern Baptist Convention was pro-choice..... not pro-life?>>

They are now pro-life, the proper Christian position.

If they had been pro-choice, as you stated in your hissy-fit about Fallwell and fundamentalists (who just aren't intelligent enough to comprehend the brilliance of your position that people should have the right to choose to murder their infants) they were in error and "ol' Jerry" set them straight.

Good for him.

I am a bit surprised by your behavior. You are representing yourself as a Catholic priest I think?? Firstly I don't have a problem with your view of the importance of embryonic human life if you are doing so from a Catholic perspective. But I wonder why you are dictating the proper view of Baptists and other Christians? To this point I have not observed this behavior from Catholics. And you have just acknowledged your mistake in a limited fashion at least. The issue that many people have with ol'Jerry was with his invasion of the Republican party by the religious right which has now become such a blind polarized manipulating battle that it is tearing down democracy. And contrary to my understanding of the Catholic church which I have started seeing as the beacon of Christianity I am now wondering if i should reconsider. You sound more like you are coming from the political battle than from what i would expect as a more thought out position of the Catholic Church.

 

[fatherjimparker]

<<I am a bit surprised by your behavior. You are representing yourself as a Catholic priest I think?? Firstly I don't have a problem with your view of the importance of embryonic human life if you are doing so from a Catholic perspective. >>

I am doing so from a Christian perspective, not a "Catholic" perspective.

<< But I wonder why you are dictating the proper view of Baptists and other Christians? >>

You're being absurd. I have dictated nothing to anyone.

And "Baptist and other Christians" are all members of the same Church.

<<The issue that many people have with ol'Jerry was with his invasion of the Republican party by the religious right >>

And you are completely unaware of the fact that your assertion of that "invasion" is a fabrication of the progressive/socialist left (The People's Socialist DemoKKKratik Partai) and you have swallowed that bit of bunk hook, line ans dinker.

<< which has now become such a blind polarized manipulating battle that it is tearing down democracy. >>

That is exactly what the People's Socialist Demokkkratik Partai intended to do with that propaganda and you have fallen right in line.

<< And contrary to my understanding of the Catholic church which I have started seeing as the beacon of Christianity I am now wondering if i should reconsider. >>

The Catholic Church is the beacon of Christianity, so is the Southern Baptist, and the Methodist, and the Orthodox, and the pentecostal.

<< You sound more like you are coming from the political battle than from what i would expect as a more thought out position of the Catholic Church.>>

I am not Roman Catholic priest.

The [position I posted, that a Christian should not murder her unborn child, is the position of Christianity since the first century. It is not a "political" position. It is a statement of the truth that all life is holy.

It is YOU who has introduced the political element by parroting the puerile propaganda of the progressive/socialist left about "the religious right." (Those horrible people who want you to respect life.)

Please, don't imagine you can run that left-wing idiocy by me and not get called on it.

 

[Givemeareason]

<<I am a bit surprised by your behavior. You are representing yourself as a Catholic priest I think?? Firstly I don't have a problem with your view of the importance of embryonic human life if you are doing so from a Catholic perspective. >>

I am doing so from a Christian perspective, not a "Catholic" perspective.

<< But I wonder why you are dictating the proper view of Baptists and other Christians? >>

You're being absurd. I have dictated nothing to anyone.

And "Baptist and other Christians" are all members of the same Church.

<<The issue that many people have with ol'Jerry was with his invasion of the Republican party by the religious right >>

And you are completely unaware of the fact that your assertion of that "invasion" is a fabrication of the progressive/socialist left (The People's Socialist DemoKKKratik Partai) and you have swallowed that bit of bunk hook, line ans dinker.

<< which has now become such a blind polarized manipulating battle that it is tearing down democracy. >>

That is exactly what the People's Socialist Demokkkratik Partai intended to do with that propaganda and you have fallen right in line.

<< And contrary to my understanding of the Catholic church which I have started seeing as the beacon of Christianity I am now wondering if i should reconsider. >>

The Catholic Church is the beacon of Christianity, so is the Southern Baptist, and the Methodist, and the Orthodox, and the pentecostal.

<< You sound more like you are coming from the political battle than from what i would expect as a more thought out position of the Catholic Church.>>

I am not Roman Catholic priest.

The [position I posted, that a Christian should not murder her unborn child, is the position of Christianity since the first century. It is not a "political" position. It is a statement of the truth that all life is holy.

It is YOU who has introduced the political element by parroting the puerile propaganda of the progressive/socialist left about "the religious right." (Those horrible people who want you to respect life.)

Please, don't imagine you can run that left-wing idiocy by me and not get called on it.

You are clearly what is referred to as a right wing extremist. That being the case if I were to address your extreme views the thread would get closed. Hopefully someone else will allow you to waste your breath on them.

 

[Archivist]

The Didache (First century Christian catechisis)
2:2 Do not commit murder; do not commit adultery; do not corrupt boys; do not have illicit sex; do not steal; do not practice magic; do not practice witchcraft; you shall not murder a child, whether it be born or unborn. Do not covet the things of your neighbor.

Thank you for providing this. Far too many people on this Forum make claims but refuse to back them up with evidence.

 

[Givemeareason]

Thank you for providing this. Far too many people on this Forum make claims but refuse to back them up with evidence.

I have not observed many who do that. Just about everyone tries to substantiate their claims with evidence except when they are making statements of faith.

 

[Archivist]

I have not observed many who do that. Just about everyone tries to substantiate their claims with evidence except when they are making statements of faith.

I wish that was the case. I just had an excahnge in the Men's Corner where a member not only refused to provide any evidence to back up his claims, but told me that it was up to me to locate evidence that supported of his claims. Unfortunately I've had similiar experiences elsewhere on CF. I'm not saying that it happens in most cases, but it happens far too often.

 

[classicalhero]

The crux of the issue is not life in the biological sense but personhood as a philosophic and legal concept. These two are really not the same (especially in the context of embryonic life,) but separating them may carry some distressing implications. Anti-abortion advocates have successfully conflated life with personhood, which admittedly is easier to grasp, and more comfortable for many people.

That is exactly how the Nazi's thought about people they were murdering. Jews simply weren't people according to them. According to abortion advocates unborn children aren't people. It is the same legal argument used in both cases.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-lightfoot.html

thou shalt not murder a child by abortion nor kill them when born

That quote from the Didache (The Teachings) is an important early Christian writing about what a Christian should or shouldn't do. It is pretty obvious what they meant with this passage.

 

[dgiharris]

That is exactly how the Nazi's thought about people they were murdering. Jews simply weren't people according to them. According to abortion advocates unborn children aren't people. It is the same legal argument used in both cases.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-lightfoot.html
That quote from the Didache (The Teachings) is an important early Christian writing about what a Christian should or shouldn't do. It is pretty obvious what they meant with this passage.

That didn't take long, didn't even make it to the 3rd page of the thread...

 

[fatherjimparker]

<<You are clearly what is referred to as a right wing extremist.>>

That's exactly what I would expect a left-wing extremist to say. Progressives (the politically correct term for socialists and communists) have a hatred of religion because it puts God above the government. That's why people like Stalin and Mao tried to wipe out Christianity in their realms.

That's why you want Christianity banned from the public forum.

 

[fatherjimparker]

Thank you for providing this. Far too many people on this Forum make claims but refuse to back them up with evidence.

Thank you for encouraging my behavior.

 

[Cuddles333]

The Didache is not an inspired text. This is why it is not in our Bibles. It contains things such as 'religious contingencies' such as if there is not enough water for baptism, or, if there is no 'running water' . For the baptism to be authentic, all 3 of the deities names must have been named. If there was almost no water available, then the baptizer must pour it over the person's head while naming the 3 deities. There are many more strange things contained in it as well. To refer to this late document to try to prove that the early Christians did not practice abortion...is comparable to the JWs referring to the New World Translation to try to prove that Jesus was/is not God.

 

[fatherjimparker]

<< The Didache is not an inspired text.>>

So what? Neither is your church's statement of faith.

<< This is why it is not in our Bibles. >>

Again, so what? Neither is your church's statement of faith.

<< It contains things such as 'religious contingencies' such as if there is not enough water for baptism, or, if there is no 'running water' .>>

It contains the teaching of the Church in the first century, BEFORE the writing of the NT was completed. It is a synopsis of the teaching of the apostles.

<< To refer to this late document to try to prove that the early Christians did not practice abortion.>>

It is not a late document. It is 1st century catechisis from before the time that Revelation was written.

<<..is comparable to the JWs referring to the New World Translation to try to prove that Jesus was/is not God.>>

Don't be absurd. It is an authentic document of the New Testament church dating from the time of the apostles. The reason it is not in the New Testament is; rather than being written by an apostle, it is a compilation of the apostles teaching. Since its origin was not the hand of an apostle, it was not included in the NT.

That doesn't mean that it does not provide you with a look at what the very early church taught. (If you are intelligent enough to recognize what you have been given)

 

[Givemeareason]

If life begins at conception, doesn't this indicate that birth control pills themselves are immoral based on this?

All formulations of the pill cause changes to the lining of the womb (properly known as the endometrium). Under the influence of the chemicals in the pill, the lining of the womb doesn’t grow to the proper thickness. You will notice that your periods are lighter when you are on the pill. This is because the lining of the womb has not developed properly. But this change also means that the womb is not in the right stage of development to allow a fertilized egg to attach properly (this attachment process is known as implantation).

 

[fatherjimparker]

If life begins at conception, doesn't this indicate that birth control pills themselves are immoral based on this?

All formulations of the pill cause changes to the lining of the womb (properly known as the endometrium). Under the influence of the chemicals in the pill, the lining of the womb doesn’t grow to the proper thickness. You will notice that your periods are lighter when you are on the pill. This is because the lining of the womb has not developed properly. But this change also means that the womb is not in the right stage of development to allow a fertilized egg to attach properly (this attachment process is known as implantation).

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/birth-control

Birth Control

"In 1968, Pope Paul VI issued his landmark encyclical letter Humanae Vitae (Latin, "Human Life"), which reemphasized the Church’s constant teaching that it is always intrinsically wrong to use contraception to prevent new human beings from coming into existence.

"Contraception is "any action which, either in anticipation of the conjugal act [sexual intercourse], or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" (Humanae Vitae 14). This includes sterilization, condoms and other barrier methods, spermicides, coitus interruptus (withdrawal method), the Pill, and all other such methods."