Liberating Motherhood

[benedictaoo]

I said it before and I will say it again and again becuase something called LIVED experience taught me otherwise.

In this day and age a women is crazy not to at least have skill where if she has to work, she can.

Too many and I mean too many darn times I have seen good housewives and mothers get screwed by men becuase they stayed home and took care of the man and the kids only to have the man divorce her and ironically, the men who want the women home, barefoot and pregnant, they also think the money is all theirs and they pick up their ball and go home leaving the women with nothing.

So, I don't care about feminists and what anyone says, my daughter WILL be educated and have a job where she can take care of herslef and will never depend on any man and she will not be in a position to where she has kids she has to care for on her own.

and please do not come back with good men and Christian men.. I have KNOWN and I'm serious, Ive known the good Catholics and the good Christians do this.

I'm so sorry if I'm wrong becuase I do believe in the traditional role as well, but I can't accept this freeing notion becuase she is never free if the man holds all the card as far as her survival is concerned.

 

[SolomonVII]

40 years into the Feminist Revolution, what a hellish existence modern women in the West face.

I can't imagine the women of North Africa, with thieir clitorises sliced off, and their lowly social position, are in any more misery than is the lot of Western women today.

This is pure misery that is puring out of this thread.

What a literally hellish existence the women of OBOB are living in.

God I pity you poor miserable creatures.
I never even imagined what miserable, wretched lives you are living.

But now I understand.

May God have pity on you, one and all.

 

[benedictaoo]

40 years into the Feminist Revolution, what a hellish existence modern women in the West face.

I can't imagine the women of North Africa, with thieir clitorises sliced off, and their lowly social position, are in any more misery than is the lot of Western women today.

This is pure misery that is puring out of this thread.

What a literally hellish existence the women of OBOB are living in.

God I pity you poor miserable creatures.
I never even imagined what miserable, wretched lives you are living.

But now I understand.

May God have pity on you, one and all.

and the men did it to us...

 

[Blackwater Babe]

40 years into the Feminist Revolution, what a hellish existence modern women in the West face.

I can't imagine the women of North Africa, with thieir clitorises sliced off, and their lowly social position, are in any more misery than is the lot of Western women today.

This is pure misery that is puring out of this thread.

What a literally hellish existence the women of OBOB are living in.

God I pity you poor miserable creatures.
I never even imagined what miserable, wretched lives you are living.

But now I understand.

May God have pity on you, one and all.

Talk about a false dichotomy!

Women, either have it entirely their own way, or getting their clitorises (clitorii?) sawn off. Absolutely nothing in between.

 

[benedictaoo]

we should be thankful we have it so good here, it could be worse, we could be getting our girl parts cut off.

Wow.

Here's the deal Solomon, I do not necessarily disagree with you however, there has to be compassionate and understanding shown to woman and the impression I get from you is she is to do this and like it and if she doesn't, there is something wrong with her.

No, how about its the men folk in her life that is selfish and he takes advantage of her neutering nature. How about kids can get to feel very entitled when the mother is that devoted.

How about that, can that happen?

and even if he's not a bad guy, and the kids aren't total brats, its still is draining taking care of everybody and no one takes care of you.

You wake and one day you wonder, is this all there is?

Its a normal feeling to have and this is when she should be encouraged to care for herself and make her life a priority.

 

[SolomonVII]

I don't know why you keep equating feminism with women who do not have children.

I am not. You are just not listening.

I never said that radical feminism hasn't lauded the dawn of abortion and contraception on demand.

I never said you did. I only pointed out the obvious.

What I AM saying is that women who do not have children/cannot have children are not necessarily that sort of woman.

Sarah was not that kind of woman, was she?
She and Abraham were in fact the ideal mother and father long before they even had Isaac. Even in their barrenness, they best exemplified the heavenly 'type' that God was pelased enough to make into the exemplary parents of all time.
so what I AM saying is that barrenness does not even enter the picture of being closed to life. Their womb may have been closed off, but their hearts were open in many more even bigger ways.

They do not necessarily have that kind of mindset. Then you keep talking about feminism and fish and bicycles and I'm not sure why.

Because a woman who believes that she does not need a man is closing herself off to life.
Look this was a common saying in feminism. It is a common belief still. Men do not feel this way. women by and large do. to be open to the creating of new life, we must be open to living lives together as man and woman, husband and wife. We must desire it, plan for it, strive for it. It has to be a fever burning within us, or it is not going to happen.

Nothing I am talking about has anything to do with feminism.

Everything I am talking about has to do with feminism.

It has to do with women who cannot be bothers through accidents of nature, and if they choose to have careers and such without having to worry about supporting a family, why is that bad? Like I said, there is no mandate that everyone has to have children if they get married.

Some people are barren. They cannot. Even then, by living as man and wife, being fully engaged with each other in every way, they nevertheless are serving as the type of sacramental marriage that supports the institution socially.
Catholic teaching certainly does not condone marriage not including the creation of new life. Children are integral to it a Christian marriage. While family planning allows for some control of the spacing of children, spacing that family so that no children are born is not according to Catholic teaching.

Anyway, I'm not paranoid, and I'm not sure why you're talking about Muslims and things that men want because those have nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

Well that is really quite simple. If you go back to the post where I first responded to you, that is the exact point where I made my first response to you. Since you failed to read that post before responding to it, you have failed in having any understanding whatsover as to what I have been saying.
Instead, you talk about what the tread is saying in general, how you feel that it is being hurtful to you personally and your tragic condition.
If you think that I have been doing that, you are paranoid.
Your condition is none of my business, and I don't intend to make it my business. That is not what I am about

My position is a valid one, it is acceptable within the realm of faith, and nothing I have said permits or approves of sin. The end.

So is mine. andif you had bother to read what I had linked you up to, you would have received a lot of very good wisdom as to how woman and men can relate to each other in marriage.
You didn't.
I thought you might be interested.

You weren't.

The end.

Ta-ta.

 

[SolomonVII]

we should be thankful we have it so good here, it could be worse, we could be getting our girl parts cut off.

Wow.

Here's the deal Solomon, I do not necessarily disagree with you however, there has to be compassionate and understanding shown to woman and the impression I get from you is she is to do this and like it and if she doesn't, there is something wrong with her.

No, how about its the men folk in her life that is selfish and he takes advantage of her neutering nature. How about kids can get to feel very entitled when the mother is that devoted.

How about that, can that happen?

and even if he's not a bad guy, and the kids aren't total brats, its still is draining taking care of everybody and no one takes care of you.

You wake and one day you wonder, is this all there is?

Its a normal feeling to have and this is when she should be encouraged to care for herself and make her life a priority.

I always wondered what kind of woman would come on the forum ragging on her husband for the better part of two weeks.

Now I know.
what a miserable existence you must lead.

Poor you.


Poor husband.

 

[Blackwater Babe]

I always wondered what kind of woman would come on the forum ragging on her husband for the better part of two weeks.

Now I know.
what a miserable existence you must lead.

Poor you.


Poor husband.

No matter how bad her husband is, I'm sure at the very least he doesn't make statements strongly implying that Western women would be better off all round being subject to enforced female genital mutilation.

 

[Antigone]

So is mine. andif you had bother to read what I had linked you up to, you would have received a lot of very good wisdom as to how woman and men can relate to each other in marriage.

There's, what, four of us in this thread who constantly keep missing your point. Methinks you ought to be a little bit more specific rather than just saying 'reread what I said'.

Or maybe this is just our fickle woman brains not comprehending.

 

[Gwendolyn]

I have said a few times that I am NOT referring to people who use contraception to avoid children. You keep accusing me of not listening, but it seems that you aren't, either.

And re: your quip about us being miserable women - I'm not miserable at all. I'm relatively content with myself.

 

[benedictaoo]

I always wondered what kind of woman would come on the forum ragging on her husband for the better part of two weeks.

Now I know.
what a miserable existence you must lead.

Poor you.


Poor husband.

Two weeks? I think its been longer than that. More like 20 years.

Look, I don't know anything about you, I don't know how old you are, if you are married or if you have children but all I'm sayin is, I find it interesting you are on here preaching to women about what their role is and how freeing it is and fulfilling it is. How would you know what it is to raise children to adulthood and when its over, you don't know who you are anymore?

Only if she has a real good support system and a partner who does not take her "role" for granted.

This can not be done with just the women knowing her role, a man has to know his and be willing to be a helpmate.

Why aren't you preaching to men to be better men and to fulfil their role?

I'm sorry, while I think the feminist movement is ridiculous and I would never associate myself with them, I've seen it too many time in my life, women, who if the man were to leave them, are really screwed becuase they never furthered their education, never had a job, and what they did was raise kids and be a wife.

I've hear how motherhood is the hardest job, etc but its not a job that qualifies for work if you should have to go to work.

What is so evil wrong with saying a women needs to protect herself and be able to survive with out a man if it ever comes to that?

 

[benedictaoo]

No matter how bad her husband is, I'm sure at the very least he doesn't make statements strongly implying that Western women would be better off all round being subject to enforced female genital mutilation.

He's really not bad, not that I feel any need to defend him or me. He's typical and he doesn't get it. What man does?

I'm I talking Chinese or something? is what I'm saying to Solomon that difficult to grasp?

and it was men who first said a wife is a ball and chain, it was not a made up notion of the feminists.

A women and her motherhood role is all fine and well and I do believe it is a better life then remaining single and moving from relationship to relationship. In the end I believe it will all be worth it.

However...

That doesn't mean its not all flowers and daisies everyday. A women can get to where she has just lost who she is when she devotes herself to caring for everyone but herslef.

What is so crazy hard about understanding this?

I can not image any "Catholic" man not being sympathetic to this.

and its not a freeing role when she is in a situation where if the man was to leave her, she would not be able to survive.

 

[benedictaoo]

I
And re: your quip about us being miserable women - I'm not miserable at all. I'm relatively content with myself.

well that's the problem Gwen, you aren't supposed to be content with yourself unless you have a husband and a few kids to care for.

a women needs a man and children to be free.

 

[Antigone]

My boyfriend and I were talking about this the other day. If we ever have children together we're both planning on working part-time. For financial reasons - we both have an okay income, but not enough for one of us to support the other and a family completely - but because my boyfriend wants to be a part of raising our children too. I remember when I was younger I had a rather distant relationship with my dad because he was at his work all the time (it turned out okay, but it's kind of hard to bond with your dad when he gets home around half past six and you have to go to bed around seven). I'd like my children to have a better bond with their father.

Besides which, if either of us stayed home for half a decade or more, it would be hard for us to get back on the market because we'd have missed the developments in the field, we'd be out of touch.

 

[Meepy]

Two weeks? I think its been longer than that. More like 20 years.

Look, I don't know anything about you, I don't know how old you are, if you are married or if you have children but all I'm sayin is, I find it interesting you are on here preaching to women about what their role is and how freeing it is and fulfilling it is. How would you know what it is to raise children to adulthood and when its over, you don't know who you are anymore?

Only if she has a real good support system and a partner who does not take her "role" for granted.

This can not be done with just the women knowing her role, a man has to know his and be willing to be a helpmate.

Why aren't you preaching to men to be better men and to fulfil their role?

I'm sorry, while I think the feminist movement is ridiculous and I would never associate myself with them, I've seen it too many time in my life, women, who if the man were to leave them, are really screwed becuase they never furthered their education, never had a job, and what they did was raise kids and be a wife.

I've hear how motherhood is the hardest job, etc but its not a job that qualifies for work if you should have to go to work.

What is so evil wrong with saying a women needs to protect herself and be able to survive with out a man if it ever comes to that?

you realize the breaking up of families increased greatly after the independent woman ideal of feminism came up. Feminists pushed for no fault divorce and abortion. Divorce and breaking up families were very rare earlier on. So men leaving or families breaking up can be blamed greatly on the change of family values that were pushed on by these feminist revolutionaries. All you have to do is look at a divorce rate graph.

Men figure today ,"well your soo independent now, you can go do it yourself and should have no problems". Rather than thinking "I could never leave my wife to suffer like that"

Chivalry. That is the issue. Feminism killed it.

You can't have it both ways. You can't expect men to take care of their wives properly when society is bashing it into their heads that women should be fully independent and that they don't have to rely on a man anymore. And it is said with such hatred and animosity as if a wife relying on her husband is such a horrid subjecting thing. And with that horrid attitude it justifies men to treat their wives as just another independent workmate who should have no problem if he ever leaves. It justifies men to leave their families with a good conscience.

Of course then they demand child support. As if the independent ideal all of a sudden fizzles into the air.

 

[SolomonVII]

...

 

[Meepy]

and the men did it to us...

I really hope you don't take that anger out on your husband.

now now. Lets not throw the blame card. Both men and women caused this. Societal changes and revolutionaries. The women who supported the revolutionary movement and the men who supported it. A large number of judges where men who signed things like no-fault divorce and abortion into existence, even though they were pressured on by feminists.

Remember in most of european history divorce was very rare. Around 5-7%. It only skyrocketed after the feminist revolutionary movement after the 50s. If you want someone to blame, look closely at this era and the people protesting and holding the signs outside congress.

 

[Antigone]

...

I think the whole point of Bene's post was that that was exactly what she was trying to do.

Seriously, Solomon, if this is the sort of posts you start making then perhaps you shouldn't be posting in this thread anymore.

 

[SolomonVII]

Two weeks? I think its been longer than that. More like 20 years.

Miserable existence, yours

Look, I don't know anything about you, I don't know how old you are, if you are married or if you have children but all I'm sayin is, I find it interesting you are on here preaching to women about what their role is and how freeing it is and fulfilling it is. How would you know what it is to raise children to adulthood and when its over, you don't know who you are anymore?

Not preaching to anyone. Just commenting on the OP, as is my right.

Only if she has a real good support system and a partner who does not take her "role" for granted.

Irrelevant to anything I have posted.

This can not be done with just the women knowing her role, a man has to know his and be willing to be a helpmate.

Irrelevant to anything I have posted.

Why aren't you preaching to men to be better men and to fulfil their role?

You don't know anythign about me. You obviously don't even read my posts.
How do you know what I am or an not doing?

I'm sorry, while I think the feminist movement is ridiculous and I would never associate myself with them,

Then get off my freakin case.

I've seen it too many time in my life, women, who if the man were to leave them, are really screwed becuase they never furthered their education, never had a job, and what they did was raise kids and be a wife.

Irrelevant to anything I have posted.

I've hear how motherhood is the hardest job, etc but its not a job that qualifies for work if you should have to go to work.

Nope.

What is so evil wrong with saying a women needs to protect herself and be able to survive with out a man if it ever comes to that?

Irrelevant to anything I have posted.

Like I say, what a miserable, joylss life you all must lead.
Hellish existence for women, it is, 40 years into the Feminist Revolution.
I can't imagine any women in the rest of the world being as unhappy as western women are ner feminism.

 

[Antigone]

I really hope you don't take that anger out on your husband.

now now. Lets not throw the blame card. Both men and women caused this. Societal changes and revolutionaries. The women who supported the revolutionary movement and the men who supported it. A large number of judges where men who signed things like no-fault divorce and abortion into existence, even though they were pressured on by feminists.

Remember in most of european history divorce was very rare. Around 5-7%. It only skyrocketed after the feminist revolutionary movement after the 50s. If you want someone to blame, look closely at this era and the people protesting and holding the signs outside congress.

Divorce rates say little about how marriages worked. Divorce used to be a lot harder to obtain. Just because there was less of it doesn't mean marriages were any better.

I'm proud to have the choice to stay home with my family rather than being forced to do it. Most of all because I know for sure that being stuck at home would drive me nuts. I think I'd be a better mom if I could get out of the house a few days a week. And no, that's not me being selfish, that's me being realistic. To say that I should just stay home diminishes the value of my job. I like to think that what I do at work has some value.