Liberal Judaism?

[ProScribe]

Many synagogues are not comfortable having them around, because who are they going to marry? They can't marry a Jew.

Is this rule based on Levitical and Deuteronomian Law?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Many synagogues are not comfortable having them around, because who are they going to marry? They can't marry a Jew.

The never ending trials of mixed families ...

 

[ChavaK]

The only Noahides I know are people that cannot convert to Judaism because of their spouses. One couple that was Noahide is now converting and mentioned that very thing- there isn't much of a community for them.

They are always welcome to attend shuls-we have two that come to ours-but they
have limitations. No one to date if they are single, can't join the shul, don't get aliyahs, etc etc.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The only Noahides I know are people that cannot convert to Judaism because of their spouses. One couple that was Noahide is now converting and mentioned that very thing- there isn't much of a community for them.

They are always welcome to attend shuls-we have two that come to ours-but they have limitations. No one to date if they are single, can't join the shul, don't get aliyahs, etc etc.

Wow.

 

[ChavaK]

Wow.

Wow what?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Wow what?

"Wow" as it concerns the predicament other Noahides being unable to have alot of community...as you'd not normally suspect that, IMHO.

 

[ChavaK]

"Wow" as it concerns the predicament other Noahides being unable to have alot of community...as you'd not normally suspect that, IMHO.

Ah, yes, it is unusal. I don't think there a lot of them, as most people just
go on to convert to Judaism rather than stay in a "no man's" state of
being.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Ah, yes, it is unusal. I don't think there a lot of them, as most people just
go on to convert to Judaism rather than stay in a "no man's" state of
being.

Seems similar to the entire dynamic of how it's said that people are accepted as they are, even though there's an unspoken rule that people would prefer you to be much more...and without directly saying they're against it, there's body language used where people are essentially treated as if they're a black sheep...with the non-verbal actions/avoidance or lack of community being practiced in the hopes that others will feel the pressure/eventually conform for full acceptance without it ever being explicitly stated that people wanted others not to remain as they are...for there's the reality of maintaining appearances, as with others saying "Hey, we never said they HAD to convert..and if they wanted to do so, that's their choice"....

 

[xDenax]

I only know one Noahide and her husband is also a Noahide. They were going to convert but now have chosen against it for some reason. She has not shared the reason but I do know the Rabbis with whom she and her husband study do discourage it.

 

[Gerat_Tzedek]

So getting back to my original statement, this is why my rebbe is appreciative of how the Reform synagogues take in gentiles. Unlike an orthodox synagogue, there is no pressure for them to adopt a culture of observance, and because of the high rate of intermarraige etc., there are also plenty of other gentiles there for them to socialize with. It provides the strength of a wholesome supportive community which, let's face it, most people really do need.

 

[ChavaK]

So getting back to my original statement, this is why my rebbe is appreciative of how the Reform synagogues take in gentiles. Unlike an orthodox synagogue, there is no pressure for them to adopt a culture of observance, and because of the high rate of intermarraige etc., there are also plenty of other gentiles there for them to socialize with. It provides the strength of a wholesome supportive community which, let's face it, most people really do need.

I disagree.....I see it as acceptance of intermarriage. Making people "feel good" about their poor choices isn't a good thing....and only encourages more
intermarriage and assimilation.

 

[Qnts2]

I disagree.....I see it as acceptance of intermarriage. Making people "feel good" about their poor choices isn't a good thing....and only encourages more
intermarriage and assimilation.

I think the view is, a high number of Jewish people are intermarrying, and there is nothing that can be done about it.

So, with that view, I think the concern is for the children. I have read a few articles which state that unlike 20 or more years ago, when the Gentile spouse almost always converted to Judaism, today, most don't. In the Reform movement, a child who is raised in Judaism, and has either a mother or father who is Jewish, is considered Jewish, so there is a motivation to not alienate the Gentile spouse. For the children to be raised Jewish.

At least that is the way I read the article.

 

[Chaplain David]

I think the view is, a high number of Jewish people are intermarrying, and there is nothing that can be done about it.

So, with that view, I think the concern is for the children. I have read a few articles which state that unlike 20 or more years ago, when the Gentile spouse almost always converted to Judaism, today, most don't. In the Reform movement, a child who is raised in Judaism, and has either a mother or father who is Jewish, is considered Jewish, so there is a motivation to not alienate the Gentile spouse. For the children to be raised Jewish.

At least that is the way I read the article.

But if it's a tenet or law of Judaism and people are disregarding it then that's not a good thing do you think?

 

[Chaplain David]

So getting back to my original statement, this is why my rebbe is appreciative of how the Reform synagogues take in gentiles. Unlike an orthodox synagogue, there is no pressure for them to adopt a culture of observance, and because of the high rate of intermarraige etc., there are also plenty of other gentiles there for them to socialize with. It provides the strength of a wholesome supportive community which, let's face it, most people really do need.

Since we're not supposed to be discussing or debating because this is the MJ forum let me ask you a question. Questions are fine. Is it generally a Jewish law that Jews are not supposed to marry non Jews?

 

[ChavaK]

I think the view is, a high number of Jewish people are intermarrying, and there is nothing that can be done about it.

Of course that perception is wrong....and even if not, they throw in the towel?

So, with that view, I think the concern is for the children. I have read a few articles which state that unlike 20 or more years ago, when the Gentile spouse almost always converted to Judaism, today, most don't. In the Reform movement, a child who is raised in Judaism, and has either a mother or father who is Jewish, is considered Jewish, so there is a motivation to not alienate the Gentile spouse. For the children to be raised Jewish.

My understanding is that children of intermarriages are seldom (something like 25%) raised Jewish....and of those most of them don't have a strong Jewish identity and many of them intermarry. Of course there is also an issue that if the mother is Gentile, only Reform accepts them as Jewish.
So if they wish to associate with a Conservative or Orthodox community they will need to convert.
My view, perhaps wrong, is that the people want to have their cake and eat it to. Have some Jewish identity they wish to hang onto, but not enough for them to have a Jewish spouse and family. Want their kids to be Jewish even though the mother isn't. It's a mess and I don't think it serves anyone well.

 

[ChavaK]

But if it's a tenet or law of Judaism and people are disregarding it then that's not a good thing do you think?

I agree 100%...

 

[ChavaK]

Is it generally a Jewish law that Jews are not supposed to marry non Jews?

I know this is not addressed to me, but since I'm here
Intermarriage is forbidden by Jewish law.

Since we're not supposed to be discussing or debating because this is the MJ forum

I thought discussions were fine....isn't that a form of fellowship?
No debating, no teaching I understand.....but no discussion at all????????

 

[Chaplain David]

I know this is not addressed to me, but since I'm here
Intermarriage is forbidden by Jewish law.


I thought discussions were fine....isn't that a form of fellowship?
No debating, no teaching I understand.....but no discussion at all????????

You know what, the discussion thing can involve a lot of things from talking about the weather to disagreeing with another's stance about a topic or even teaching. In fact we're having one form of discussion right now, one that I believe is ok. But I think that would be a good question to ask Tish for clarification and we should do that. Please don't wait for me to ask. Anyone can.

Thanks for the info on Jewish law. I sort of figured it was.

 

[Qnts2]

I agree 100%...

I agree....

But.....

I have to admit, I have a relative who married a Gentile. Now has 2 children. I was at the babies Bris just a few months ago. I am certainly hoping that the children are raised Jewish. Since the mother is not Jewish, then the children are not Jewish, but I still would like them to be raised Jewish. They can choose to convert later. It is a tough situation.

 

[ChavaK]

I agree....

But.....

I have to admit, I have a relative who married a Gentile. Now has 2 children. I was at the babies Bris just a few months ago. I am certainly hoping that the children are raised Jewish. Since the mother is not Jewish, then the children are not Jewish, but I still would like them to be raised Jewish. They can choose to convert later. It is a tough situation.

Yeah it is a tough situation.....I really wish people would think about the issues of having kids before they intermarry. They may think one thing (like I don't care if the kid is raised Jewish) but have a big change of heart once they start a family. And that can lead to all kinds of stress and put a lot of pressure on the kid.