Liberal Christians

[korvus]

As Luther said, "Sin boldly"- our standing before God is not the result of our sinlessness but our faith in Christ's sacrifice.

I think if you really think you have a desire to put off all sin, you need to look harder into yourself. Chances are you are just saying that and you don't realize how much you rebel against God all the time and fall far short of perfection. When you die, you aren't going to get brownie points for how sinless you think you have lived- God won't be impressed. It's inevitable we'll all sin- each of us falls far short of God's holiness, and from God's perspective there isn't a great deal of difference between a saint and a sinner. It's more important we learn to love, to forgive (which is harder than "not sinning"), to be merciful just as God is merciful to us, than to go down a checklist of sins to figure out how we can try to fudge the numbers to make ourselves look holier than thou. The only thing any of us can do is throw ourselves on the mercy of God, because anything we can do just will not be good enough to make us any better than the sinner next to us.

Brennan Manning's "Ragamuffin Gospel" is excellent to learn what grace is really about.

this.

 

[McMatt]

Greetings HalupkiMonster,

I hope you realize that you came to a Conservative thread and then told a Conservative to "chill out". I am sure that goes over well on the Liberal forums, yes?

So while I do not think that society being liberalized will bring on child rape persay, I hope you do realize that NAMBLA is protected under liberal views and is also under the umbrella protection of the Southern Poverty Law Center who sues for the rights of the LGBT movement. (** Cue the "More You Know" Music here**)

Please also be aware that a major movement of the Liberalized Feminists is to remove any resemblance of a male versus female society. Feminist' goals are to emasculate males and have begun doing this in schools and in male dominated organizations. Particularly Christian male organizations like the Boy Scouts where God's word is still taught. The Liberal movement believes in the total destruction of anything that does not coincide with their belief systems (anything devoid of morals will be their belief system).

I honestly do not see the point of only discussing issues (especially political issues) with others who feel the same as you. You are only reaffirming your own views at that point and it is more of a one sided rant than a discussion. Such circular crap is pointless and has no merit, unless you are just looking to get the "amen brother/sister!"

With the feminism issue I can totally agree with you to some extent because the fact is organized feminists are basically man hating individuals who would look a lot better chopping down a tree or doing heavy lifting in a loading dock than they would in a political environment. But again, that is organized feminism. Individual feminists are mostly people who want to work but not get paid less than the man doing the job. This isnt the "grow a persian rug under your arms and burn your bra" days of the 70s (for most people). However in schools these days young boys are getting disciplined for things like playing in the mud and doing what normal young males should be doing and I think that is totally unacceptable. Boys naturally do different things than girls and it happens for a reason.

Feminism inadvertently was a big contributor to two working parent households, which could be cited as a potential cause of a raise in crime rate among youth, because a lot of kids now learn from their friends values instead of the values the parents should instill in the child. I personally think one parent (male or female) should stay home and raise the kids for that specific reason, but the way things work these days it really isn't an option for every family.

 

[CrystalJael]

Hey McMatt,

I'll be honest, sometimes it is just nice to be around like minded people and hear views that sound sane to you. At least that is how I feel. There are plenty of forums where we are able to debate but the Conservative and Liberal forums are not that. They are just here for like minded people to discuss topics.

As for what I said, I am conservative and feel that anything short of that is wrong. I am open to growth from learning but if it doesn't fit in with the conservative biblical mindset I likely won't think twice on it.

To me, feminism is completely evil and of Satan. Should women who work get equal pay? Sure and so should people of different ethnicities. This isn't the feminism or even social justice issues a Conservative has issue with. I am sure you recognize that.

 

[McMatt]

To me, feminism is completely evil and of Satan. Should women who work get equal pay? Sure and so should people of different ethnicities. This isn't the feminism or even social justice issues a Conservative has issue with. I am sure you recognize that.

I don't have a problem with someone having an issue with feminism, the only thing that troubles me is because you say you aren't against women getting equal pay, but you're against feminism. That is the entire basis of what true feminism is. You need to look at the aspect of political feminism because I can probably guess which part of feminism you hate. I compare political feminism with unions, because they started out with a good basis, because the underlying ideal is what was needed. They stay around a while, the cause is noted and solved, and later on they don't have a purpose anymore. That is when they get greedy with what they go for and that is when they go overboard.

Myself, I agree with feminism, but I absolutely cannot stand feminists. Not the ones who just want to be equal. I dislike the tree-hugging granola feminists who hate men and are going through their lesbian faze to be different or...i dunno...whatever. lol

 

[Wolftone]

I honestly do not see the point of only discussing issues (especially political issues) with others who feel the same as you. You are only reaffirming your own views at that point and it is more of a one sided rant than a discussion. Such circular crap is pointless and has no merit, unless you are just looking to get the "amen brother/sister!"

I guess that's the point of us going to our own churches.

Would you go to a Catholic church for example and start arguing with the congregation there?

We go to church with like minded souls to praise God and discuss our own beliefs. It's the same here. When I first joined the forum, I made the mistake of going to the liberal camp and commenting there, not realising I shouldn't have.

With the feminism issue I can totally agree with you to some extent because the fact is organized feminists are basically man hating individuals who would look a lot better chopping down a tree or doing heavy lifting in a loading dock than they would in a political environment. But again, that is organized feminism. Individual feminists are mostly people who want to work but not get paid less than the man doing the job. This isnt the "grow a persian rug under your arms and burn your bra" days of the 70s (for most people). However in schools these days young boys are getting disciplined for things like playing in the mud and doing what normal young males should be doing and I think that is totally unacceptable. Boys naturally do different things than girls and it happens for a reason.

Feminism inadvertently was a big contributor to two working parent households, which could be cited as a potential cause of a raise in crime rate among youth, because a lot of kids now learn from their friends values instead of the values the parents should instill in the child. I personally think one parent (male or female) should stay home and raise the kids for that specific reason, but the way things work these days it really isn't an option for every family.

Agree with much of this.

 

[McMatt]

I guess that's the point of us going to our own churches.

Would you go to a Catholic church for example and start arguing with the congregation there?

We go to church with like minded souls to praise God and discuss our own beliefs. It's the same here. When I first joined the forum, I made the mistake of going to the liberal camp and commenting there, not realising I shouldn't have.

But then all this forum would be is conservatives sitting at their computer and scrutinizing liberals with no countering party to defend themselves. Wow, that really is a christian discussion.

 

[A New Dawn]

As Luther said, "Sin boldly"- our standing before God is not the result of our sinlessness but our faith in Christ's sacrifice.

I think if you really think you have a desire to put off all sin, you need to look harder into yourself. Chances are you are just saying that and you don't realize how much you rebel against God all the time and fall far short of perfection. When you die, you aren't going to get brownie points for how sinless you think you have lived- God won't be impressed. It's inevitable we'll all sin- each of us falls far short of God's holiness, and from God's perspective there isn't a great deal of difference between a saint and a sinner. It's more important we learn to love, to forgive (which is harder than "not sinning"), to be merciful just as God is merciful to us, than to go down a checklist of sins to figure out how we can try to fudge the numbers to make ourselves look holier than thou. The only thing any of us can do is throw ourselves on the mercy of God, because anything we can do just will not be good enough to make us any better than the sinner next to us.

Brennan Manning's "Ragamuffin Gospel" is excellent to learn what grace is really about.

What does this have to do with the discussion? Or with what I said?

 

[korvus]

But then all this forum would be is conservatives sitting at their computer and scrutinizing liberals with no countering party to defend themselves. Wow, that really is a christian discussion.

Yeah, but why would any self-respecting conservative want to talk to a liberal Christian who twists the word into his own desires?

Joking aside I also dislike how some conservatives tell liberals to go to the liberal forums and that only scripture and truth is allowed and assumptively no discussing on interpretations.

I have a habit of sounding bitter with these things, but it does get to me when someone says theres only one way to view scripture. Sorry, but there's something called 'context', where depending on it can lead to the differing of views of a book that's ancient.

But of course 'interpreting' the Bible of course means 'twisting' it to some.

The main thing that bothers me about far right conservatism is the apparent (don't shoot me for saying this) single-mindedness and at times refusal to hear the other side of things without associating it subconsciously with a 'political agenda' or some other thing like that.

This immediately leads me to think a lot of the far right conservatives are simply down right insecure with their positions that they have to shun other peoples opinions and send them to other boards.

If I wasn't making it clear, I'm not assuming every conservative is like this, as I have a certain degree of conservatism myself.

 

[Albion]

Yeah, but why would any self-respecting conservative want to talk with a liberal Christian who twists the word into his own desires?

Take it to one of the liberal forums, you two. You are breaking the rules of this forum by debating and promoting in opposition to the principles of this group, and you have been politely asked before this to adhere to the rules, whether or not you agree with them.

 

[Touchemama]

The question was asked are there any conservative christians out here. I am one through and through.
There are teachings in this world that liberals have brought into law that I certainly do not have to abide or accept such as homosexuality, abortion, feminism, etc. Feminism is evil. I watched when it came into being and the damage it did then and is still doing today. It broke up a lot of good marriages along with some bad ones. I love the sinner but certainly hate the sin.
There are moral right and wrongs and these for some reason have been done away with for pleasure only regardless of the consequences of their actions and or who these actions may hurt and yet some people who do this call themselves so called christians and then you wonder why christians have a bad reputation.
Forget the other guy as long as they get their pleasure, in other words it's a me, myself and I world.
I feel what christians need to do is go back to the book of Proverbs and the wisdom of Solomon in how we live our lives and not allow the bombardment of bad tv movies, language, actions, etc take away our moral compass God has given us.
I am not saying we have to go back to the hell-fire damnation preaching but we do need pastors to take a stand and quit trying to be politically correct and do fluff preaching to please everyone. Jesus certainly did not do this. He told it like it was with no holes barred and with love.

Liberals if you do not like our christian values too bad! Stop trying to ban christianity just because it does not agree with your sensibilities. Each one of us is an individual and God has given us a brain to think and reason with without you cramming it down our throats that you are the only ones right. So take your liberal thinking back to your own forum.
Thank-you.

 

[korvus]

The question was asked are there any conservative christians out here. I am one through and through.
There are teachings in this world that liberals have brought into law that I certainly do not have to abide or accept such as homosexuality, abortion, feminism, etc. Feminism is evil. I watched when it came into being and the damage it did then and is still doing today. It broke up a lot of good marriages along with some bad ones. I love the sinner but certainly hate the sin.
There are moral right and wrongs and these for some reason have been done away with for pleasure only regardless of the consequences of their actions and or who these actions may hurt and yet some people who do this call themselves so called christians and then you wonder why christians have a bad reputation.
Forget the other guy as long as they get their pleasure, in other words it's a me, myself and I world.
I feel what christians need to do is go back to the book of Proverbs and the wisdom of Solomon in how we live our lives and not allow the bombardment of bad tv movies, language, actions, etc take away our moral compass God has given us.
I am not saying we have to go back to the hell-fire damnation preaching but we do need pastors to take a stand and quit trying to be politically correct and do fluff preaching to please everyone. Jesus certainly did not do this. He told it like it was with no holes barred and with love.

Liberals if you do not like our christian values too bad! Stop trying to ban christianity just because it does not agree with your sensibilities. Each one of us is an individual and God has given us a brain to think and reason with without you cramming it down our throats that you are the only ones right. So take your liberal thinking back to your own forum.
Thank-you.

Could you please define 'accept'. Just because homosexuality, abortion, and feminism is allowed doesn't mean you have to take any part of it.

I don't believe in abortion (both for the welfare of the babies and the mental welfare of anyone taking part; humans are not robots).

I also am shaky too about feminism and believe that family is a very important unit of society. Woman should be allowed to be themselves just like anyone else, but there shouldn't be an image to strive for rebelling against gender roles which is both juvenile and mocks people with real deep-seated gender queer abnormalities.

Sorry for coming off as PC but I don't watch TV or indulge in anything more than internet and mindfulness and God.

I agree with what you're saying about no fire/brimstone preaching but preaching without PC which is a cancer that's plagued everywhere in the west. People should take a stand and preach their beliefs, and the other people should just lump it.

Not every liberal is unaccepting of what the Bible says. I've read Proverbs many times and learned alot of wisdom from it. Many liberals have both conservative views and liberal views on everything. Noone is one-dimensional like that and people are more complicated than you think, just like you are.

As this is another liberal PC vegetarian post on this thread, please mods feel free to take it down.

 

[Wolftone]

But then all this forum would be is conservatives sitting at their computer and scrutinizing liberals with no countering party to defend themselves. Wow, that really is a christian discussion.

Conservative Christians tend to take a more literal understanding of scripture with none of your 'individual interpretations'.

The word is the word and not a distortion or interpretation of it.

 

[CrystalJael]

Agreed Wolftone.

Korvus, "Blessed are the peace keepers" ... if this is your intent, so be it. However, as you say liberals have some conservative views, I haven't met many conservative's that share liberal views. I don't even know how to say this politely so I will just speak the truth. I posted once in the liberal forum and one of the liberals pounced and said by posting there I was stating I was a liberal. I honestly felt sick to my stomach at the mention of being a liberal. I don't know how to be kind about it. It makes me physically ill. I can't speak for anyone else but this is just how I feel.

Please see this article, maybe it will shed some light for you. It is based on the boy scouts but then delves further into the issue I feel most concerns you.

The Boy Scouts Should Have Seen It Coming: The Gay Agenda Certainly Did

Edit to add: All this is to just simply say, I am tired of liberals pushing their sick, twisted views on us. Get out of the forum if you don't agree with Conservative views. There are plenty of like minded liberals with which to conspire.

 

[korvus]

Agreed Wolftone.

Korvus, "Blessed are the peace keepers" ... if this is your intent, so be it. However, as you say liberals have some conservative views, I haven't met many conservative's that share liberal views. I don't even know how to say this politely so I will just speak the truth. I posted once in the liberal forum and one of the liberals pounced and said by posting there I was stating I was a liberal. I honestly felt sick to my stomach at the mention of being a liberal. I don't know how to be kind about it. It makes me physically ill. I can't speak for anyone else but this is just how I feel.

Please see this article, maybe it will shed some light for you. It is based on the boy scouts but then delves further into the issue I feel most concerns you.

The Boy Scouts Should Have Seen It Coming: The Gay Agenda Certainly Did

Edit to add: All this is to just simply say, I am tired of liberals pushing their sick, twisted views on us. Get out of the forum if you don't agree with Conservative views. There are plenty of like minded liberals with which to conspire.

Well, It's hard to call anyone a peacemaker, but thank you for the complement anyways.

As humans, we are all capable of forms of bigotry and seeing ourselves as a part of one group while spitting on the other in the process, but again, thats what we do.

As a liberal, I just accept anything that's thrown at me and accept it irl and use forums to discuss/flame to bring my mind at ease.

I read the article and I agree that there may be seedy people trying to take matters of discrimination into their hands and sneakily attempt to slip things under us, which they can't because people aren't that stupid.

Being a bisexual, I have to say that I'm both ashamed and unsurprised that there are people who are LGBT that try to do these things like create LGBT communities that strive for 'acceptance' of queer people, which is futile as starting an exclusive community in the first place is the first step in separating and discriminating.

I don't think at all those two Harvard graduates are anymore important than any of us who roam these forums to dare set up something so self-defeating as an 'agenda' for 'acceptance'.

These two aren't completely bad people, as hate and fear of homosexual people is as bad as hate and fear of people of color, but I don't believe we should be portrayed as martyrs or the 'good guys' unless someone homosexual is explicitly murdered by a radical conservative, and only in that case.

For queers like me to be accepted as normal parts of society we have to admit that, like anyone else, are no different than any "bigot" someone may want to make fun of. We are capable of doing bad to. But I shouldn't really be saying we rather than 'I' individually as a queer.

The only people who can really change our opinions about other people are ourselves, not failed agendaists or "gay pride" parades.


EDIT: It'd ruin the flow of my self-important speech I made above, but again, we all make bad mistakes. There are many liberals and conservatives alike that try force themselves on eachother, which in a way is what forums can be partly for, as reality is more important than how you treat people on the internet, though I try not to be argumentative.
Conservatives can conspire just as liberals can conspire. It really depends on the individual, but shoot me for saying something that we all know lol

 

[CrystalJael]

Korvus,

I'm beginning to wonder if you are truly a closet conservative. You say you are a liberal but is it true? If so why stay on the forums and converse with conservatives? You've admitted minds will not change so this cannot be the reason. Are you afraid that you cannot be gay and conservative? Truthfully a sin is a sin, regardless of whatever it is. The difference is being unrepentant about it.

On a side note, I don't know if you like to identify your sexual orientation or political orientation is a means of trying to be open and honest? Or do you use it as a shield of some sort? I hope you realize these do not define you and you show in your words that you are capable of much more. I'm going to pray for you and I am expecting to see a lot of growth in you honestly. We all have our sins, yours doesn't define you.

 

[korvus]

Korvus,

I'm beginning to wonder if you are truly a closet conservative. You say you are a liberal but is it true? If so why stay on the forums and converse with conservatives? You've admitted minds will not change so this cannot be the reason. Are you afraid that you cannot be gay and conservative? Truthfully a sin is a sin, regardless of whatever it is. The difference is being unrepentant about it.

On a side note, I don't know if you like to identify your sexual orientation or political orientation is a means of trying to be open and honest? Or do you use it as a shield of some sort? I hope you realize these do not define you and you show in your words that you are capable of much more. I'm going to pray for you and I am expecting to see a lot of growth in you honestly. We all have our sins, yours doesn't define you.

I just hang around forums looking for discussion. Who *truly* changes over the forums like these? No one. The conservatives are the 'fire and brimstone bigots' and the liberals are the 'twisters of the word'. So discussing, even though it doesn't change things, is entertaining and may lead to some enlightenment with the occasional superhuman who walks into the thread.

I'm being open about my sexual orientation as you indirectly brought up the topic with the article you liked to. I'd just figure to attempt to bring it to an active queer's perspective.

 

[ActionJ]

Are there really any good old fashioned conservative Christians out there anymore? If so, I want to find you! lol. I am so sad to see the Christian population has become so liberal in their morals, thinking etc....

Amen! The "great falling away" has begun. That may seem like a sad thing but it's actually a blessing in disguise. Christ shall prune the dead wood from His glorious vine. Narrow is the path that leads to righteousness and few there be who find it.

It's my personal opinion that the term "liberal Christian" is an oxymoron. The true tenets of the Bible and the Gospel message are inherently conservative.

 

[ActionJ]

Agreed Wolftone.



The Boy Scouts Should Have Seen It Coming: The Gay Agenda Certainly Did

Way sad that the Scouts finally caved into the gay activist agenda. I sent them a letter expressing my disappointment and gave them notice that all future financial support has ceased. Perhaps some of the real, Christian men from the organization will break away and start a New Scouts group that will embrace the tenets of the Holy Bible and the traditions of true, Christian manhood. I won't hold my breath!

 

[Albion]

Way sad that the Scouts finally caved into the gay activist agenda. I sent them a letter expressing my disappointment and gave them notice that all future financial support has ceased. Perhaps some of the real, Christian men from the organization will break away and start a New Scouts group that will embrace the tenets of the Holy Bible and the traditions of true, Christian manhood. I won't hold my breath!

It is almost inevitable that a new organization will be created, but that doesn't mean it will rival the BSA. The bigger tragedy may be that the Scouts' sell-out won't do them any good. Their opponents aren't going to settle for this policy any more than they were satisfied when offered "unions" that were not called "marriage."

 

[CrystalJael]

Greetings ActionJ,

I am so upset over the BSA's decision. My husband and I got custody of our 12 year old nephew in December and I have been going back and forth on the Boy Scouts. I decided to wait until this decision on whether or not to enroll him. So this confirmed that decision but is just so sad.

I was in the girl scouts as a child and really enjoyed it but have heard such awful things about them for years now. I know Planned Parenthood is a contributor which is a giant red flag and believe they removed God from their creed as well. Through the AFR and AFA I found out about American Heritage Girls who are similar but focus on the Christian faith. I am hoping they will create an American Heritage Boys since they can no longer work with the BSA. At least I would expect them not too, since they seem so firm in their faith.