• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Status
Not open for further replies.

mwood30

Mickey
Dec 13, 2009
814
19
Visit site
✟23,551.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single

My dad is a conservative pastor, and he doesn't know any Greek. Most of his pastor friends don't know Greek. I won't name the denomination, but it's a very large holiness evangelical denomination. I'm speaking from experience, not guessing.

I grew up in a holiness denomination. I think people would be surprised at the rigorous training that liberal seminarians go through. Even if you go to a church with a pastor who reads Greek, many in this thread fail to appreciate how many liberals love the scripture so much as to learn Greek (pastors and laypeople). There seems to be this misconception that conservatives alone study the Bible. It's just not true... at all.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

mwood30

Mickey
Dec 13, 2009
814
19
Visit site
✟23,551.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single

When the man had gotten to "Love your neighbor as yourself," Jesus told hiim, "Do this and you will live."

So the man asked Jesus, "Who is my neighbor?"

Then Jesus turned the tables and told a story about a Samaritan who "loved his neighbor as himself" (who did this and therefore inherited life). The story was all about what makes a person a Christian and what doesn't. It was the entire point.
 
Upvote 0

WilliamB

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2011
2,315
58
Miami, FL
✟2,869.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married

Oh, how I love the simplicity of Christ. This is the truth.

The fact that people reject this Truth in exchange for the "law", is why we have so many denominations. People are selfish...they refuse to love as Christ did and since they reject this truth for a "rule book" of things that must be done, they also reject Christ by not following, honoring and teaching the Two Great Commandments, which is all about LOVE. But in fairness, one can not teach something they themselves do not have.

You can be a master of the law, preach sin, sin, sin and a laundry list of rules and conditions based on your personal ideology but one can not claim to know Christ, if one does not know love. And I'm not talking about just your friends and family. Anyone can do that. That's what makes the story so telling.

"For many will come in my name saying Lord, Lord and I will say to them, I never knew you."

So, if you've based your salvation and relationship with God on a list of rules that do not include love for all man, you've seriously missed the true teachings of Christ and what it is to be saved. Not suprising however, given most will not find the path to God as they will forever try to "earn" their way to heaven by all other means than love.

May God bless you and guide you into all Truth!
 
Upvote 0

A New Dawn

Bind my wandering heart to thee!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2004
71,056
7,944
Western New York
✟158,721.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican

Does this really have anything to do with the topic? It is really ironic how the liberal posters who have come to this forum to throw stones have complained loudly about the conservative posters who have gone to WWMC to throw stones. Am I the only one to see the irony?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

A New Dawn

Bind my wandering heart to thee!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2004
71,056
7,944
Western New York
✟158,721.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican

Jesus turned the tables a lot to show the hypocrisy of the elitist pharisees. He also turned the tables to demonstrate that the Jews were the chosen people because God chose them to bless the nations (which they weren't doing at the time.) This is not about being a Christian, it is about blessing the nations, as God told Abraham when He chose him. Does it speak to the issue of a changed heart? Yes and No. Yes, anyone who has a changed heart will do this, but no, it, alone, does not define who is a Christian. Read John 3:16. ".......... that whosoever believes on Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." Faith is what it takes, not just being nice.
 
Upvote 0

Jase

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2003
7,330
385
✟10,432.00
Faith
Messianic
Politics
US-Democrat
If you don't mind Kat, I'll try to answer these.

Perhaps you could clarify regeneration of the spirit. I don't see liberals rejecting that. Liberals don't necessarily reject Hell, we just disagree with its nature. The notion of Hell being a physical torture chamber where humans are ripped apart by demons for all eternity is not Biblical. The Hell doctrine is not as clear as it seems. The Old Testament does not support ANY of the Christian doctrine of Hell. And there is a decent amount of evidence indicating that the Christian version was influenced from the Persians. I think the NT actually supports Annihilationism more than eternal concious torment. But I don't see why Liberals supporting that is a bad thing. Do you like the idea of torture?

We have a good reason for rejecting inerrancy. It's neither Biblical, historical, or supported by evidence. Biblical inerrancy (the notion that all Bibles are completely without error) was developed in the 19th and 20th Century along with the Fundamentalist movement. The Bible has not historically always been considered 100% literal and incapable of having flaws. Add to that the overwhelming evidence from the early church fathers and scholars themselves (Origen, Jerome, Tertullian, etc.) who specifically state they personally witnessed the early scriptures being dishonestly manipulated and altered, makes it quite clear changes were made. Would you claim all of them are lying about what they saw happened to the Bible?

King James himself admitted to ordering his translators to alter the KJV to conform to Church of England teachings and to make it more "Christianized". We have strong evidence that the early manuscripts were corrected as many as 20,000 times. The verse where Jesus says, "He who is without sin cast the first stone" does not exist in the earliest manuscript. It was a later addition. There are glaring differences between translations. For example, the NIV compared to the KJV. They have entire verses that were deleted from one, but exist in the other.

In other words, we have very good reason to reject true inerrancy of any manuscripts/Bibles we have access to. Claiming only the originals are inerrant is meaningless since they don't exist and we can't prove it. We do know, that as soon as the first copies were made, they started being corrupted.

2. Do liberal Christians reject the concept of sin altogether and claim it's merely "personal interpretation"?
I've never heard a liberal reject sin. We just might disagree on what constitutes sin. What the Bible says about certain so called sins is personal interpretation. It is 100% impossible to not interpret the Bible.

3. Do liberal Christians bash evangelicals about striving for holiness?
We don't view it as a strive for holiness. It manifests as an attempt to attack anyone who doesn't believe and think exactly as they do. There is nothing holy about a self-righteous, I know all attitude.

4. Do liberal Christians believe the only passages in the Bible that pertain to them are the ones in red print and everything else was merely the jaded opinions of men?
Much of the Bible is the opinions of men. Unless of course we want to claim God ordered men to dash babies on rocks. Other points are addressed specifically to a certain culture. No Christian on this planet follows the majority of the Torah, and yet they will use it to condemn people they don't like. Mosaic law was written for the Israelites. It applies to no one else. Paul addressed the Gentile churches in Greece and Rome. Paul was not necessarily addressing the United States with all of his statements, because our society is not like Greeks and Romans. You can't arbitrarily take Paul's words out of the context of the cultures he was dealing with. Even the Gospels in some regard don't apply to us. When was the last time you saw a Christian drink poison with no harm or lay their hands on people and heal them?

5. Do liberal Christians believe all paths lead to heaven, even if they are paths that blatantly disregard God's authority and supremacy?
Most liberals are not universalists. Even so, there are certain verses that could indicate it as a possibility. Who are we to claim God can't save anyone he wants?

6. Do liberal Christians believe all one must do is believe Jesus existed and be tolerant in order to profess Christianity?
No liberal claims merely believing he existed is sufficient. However, accepting Jesus as our Savior, and following his 2 most important commandments, is all he says is required. Everything else stems from that.

7. Do liberal Christians believe it's okay to support things that are the complete antithesis to the Scriptures, all for the sake of being tolerant and loving?
Here is a big problem. You guys assume us disagreeing with your interpretation of scripture is the same as opposing scripture. Until you guys get over the absurd notion that you are not interpreting and accept that you are capable of being wrong this will always be an argument. The Bible has been used as justification for some of the worst attrocities in human history, and those Christians were as positive they were right as you are that you are right. This absolutist notion is very very dangerous, and we're not wiling to call people abominations or spawns of Satan based on the Fundamentalist interpretation of scripture. Otherwise we'll be back to burning witches at the stake.

I can't indentify the overwhelming majority of conservatives as being Christian based on their words and deeds. How is this exclusive to liberals?

9. Do liberal Christians prefer the company of liberal non-christians, because they're so open-minded, than actual believers?
I prefer non-believers because they tend to be far more educated, more compassionate, less judgemental, less hypocritical, and yes open-minded. This is in my experience, and in no way represents all conservatives/fundamentalists. I'm speaking from experience, not as a general rule. In my personal opinion, and no offense intended, I find Fundamentalism and Conservatism to be the biggest threats to Christianity. Especially fundamentalism, which isn't even historic - it was a movement invented in the last 2 Centuries.


I hope this answered some of your questions. None of them were intended to offend, but you are painting a very broad brush against liberals if you believe all those statements about everyone of us.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Jase

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2003
7,330
385
✟10,432.00
Faith
Messianic
Politics
US-Democrat
Who is throwing stones. KatAutumn for example asked us to answer those questions she posted. I don't see anyone attacking you guys. We were, however, viciously attacked in our forum.
 
Upvote 0

Searching_for_Christ

simul justus et peccator
Nov 14, 2009
2,410
201
34
In my mind.
✟26,109.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
In regards to this holiness vs golden rule stuff, I am reminded of a quote.

Presumption is one grand snare of the devil in which many of the children of men are taken. They so presume upon the mercy of God as utterly to forget his justice. Although he has expressly declared "Without holiness no man shall see the Lord" yet they flatter themselves, that in the end God will be better than his word. They imagine they may live and die in their sins, and nevertheless "escape the damnation of hell" - John Wesley

Doesn't really speak to the golden rule, more towards the call to holiness.
 
Upvote 0

StartedAtEly

Newbie
Jun 28, 2010
117
8
Belgium
✟22,776.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican

Scary stuff.
 
Upvote 0

A New Dawn

Bind my wandering heart to thee!
Site Supporter
Mar 18, 2004
71,056
7,944
Western New York
✟158,721.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Who is throwing stones. KatAutumn for example asked us to answer those questions she posted. I don't see anyone attacking you guys. We were, however, viciously attacked in our forum.

The whole post I quoted was preaching at us as being pharisees (which I know is a frequent liberal assertion of conservatives.) I haven't seen one person who is a member of this forum state that we base our salvation on a list of rules. What is it if it is not preaching that we are wrong?

I am sure nobody "viciously" attacked you in your forum. I read the thread that you were talking about and I didn't see any vicious attacking. Let's not be overly dramatic.
 
Upvote 0

Jase

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2003
7,330
385
✟10,432.00
Faith
Messianic
Politics
US-Democrat

Perhaps you didn't read it thoroughly enough since were accused us of being dishonest, liars, stupid, supporters of pedophilia and beastiality, anti-God, anti-scripture, etc. Doesn't matter though, it's closed and we're used to being called that.
 
Upvote 0

mwood30

Mickey
Dec 13, 2009
814
19
Visit site
✟23,551.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Perhaps you didn't read it thoroughly enough since were accused us of being dishonest, liars, stupid, supporters of pedophilia and beastiality, anti-God, anti-scripture, etc. Doesn't matter though, it's closed and we're used to being called that.

And don't forget that we've been called 'sellouts,' 'spinners' of scripture and hypocrites in the 'use of clobber passages' too. All in this thread.
 
Upvote 0

BondiHarry

Newbie
Mar 29, 2011
1,715
94
✟24,913.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
And don't forget that we've been called 'sellouts,' 'spinners' of scripture and hypocrites in the 'use of clobber passages' too. All in this thread.

A 'clobber phrase' seems to be any scripture which destroys what liberal Christians choose to believe.

"A man shall not lay with a man as with a woman, it is an abomination." There is no way to 'interpret' that to mean anything but that homosexual sex is an abomination to God. EVERY time homosexual sex is mentioned in the Bible it is condemned. Fornication is condemned and marriage is shown to be the union of a man and a woman so on all fronts the effort to legitimize homosexual sex is destroyed by what God teaches yet it is defended by liberal Christians.

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envying, murders, drunkeness, revellings and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God" mwood30, you dismissed the one passage I cited which showed that what you are saying about the golden rule is not correct so I cite another one which cannot be 'interpreted' to mean that people who do the things listed can be saved so long as they 'love their neighbor as themselves' (replacing God's meaning of love with a meaning more compatible with liberal's sensibilities)

"Thou shalt not covet" and "thou shalt not steal" are rather easy concepts to understand yet liberals see nothing wrong with erecting government run entitlements (although God gives no authority in the Bible for government to do this, specifically tells us in Psalm 146:3 not to put our trust in princes ie government and tells us for the things we need to seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and they will be added to us) even though these require taking by force the bread of one man's labor to give that bread to another man (stealing) and leads men to believe they are indeed 'entitled' to their neighbors property (covetousness) and leads them to look to government and not God for what they need (which is idolatry).

One is free to dismiss lying, stealing, fornication, adultery etc. as iniquity and decry conservative concerns as being self-righteousness and judgmental but in the end all of us will have to deal with a holy God who has called us to be imitators of Christ and who will indeed separate the wheat from the tares, the sheep from the goats, calling the one to eternal life and the other to reap the wages of sin.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

katautumn

Prodigal Daughter
May 14, 2015
7,498
157
44
Atlanta, GA
✟31,699.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Okay, well, this isn't going well at all. I would like to say thank you to those who answered the questions I posted. Bear in mind those were based on my (albeit) limited interaction with liberal Christians here on CF.
 
Upvote 0

mwood30

Mickey
Dec 13, 2009
814
19
Visit site
✟23,551.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single

Liberals believe anyone who lies, steals, spends their lives solely for sex, commits adultery, etc. is violating the Golden Rule and will not inherit the kingdom. You are making up straw liberals and then blowing them down. You'd be stunned at how much liberals and conservatives actually agree upon.
 
Upvote 0

BondiHarry

Newbie
Mar 29, 2011
1,715
94
✟24,913.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution

I'm responding to what you said in your posts #252 and #256 and what other liberals have said in this thread. Many liberals deny that the government sponsored welfare state is stealing and even claim it represents Jesus' call to charity. Many liberals support and encourage homosexual relationships. Many liberals support a woman's 'right' to choose. Many liberals denounce free markets and insist that government must regulate 'capitalism' when the system they condemn is not free market capitalism but a mixed economy distorted precisely because of government intervention into the economy. We may have common areas of belief but on so many key areas such as the Bible being the inerrant word of God, the right to life of the unborn or the wickedness of homosexual sex we are miles apart.
 
Upvote 0

mwood30

Mickey
Dec 13, 2009
814
19
Visit site
✟23,551.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single

If you are responding to what I wrote, then why did you add stealing, adultery, etc.? I've never hinted that anything less than the Golden Rule is what is required to enter the Kingdom of God.
 
Upvote 0

Searching_for_Christ

simul justus et peccator
Nov 14, 2009
2,410
201
34
In my mind.
✟26,109.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
If you are responding to what I wrote, then why did you add stealing, adultery, etc.? I've never hinted that anything less than the Golden Rule is what is required to enter the Kingdom of God.

You enter Heaven by Christ, not by some "golden rule"
 
Upvote 0

Searching_for_Christ

simul justus et peccator
Nov 14, 2009
2,410
201
34
In my mind.
✟26,109.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Perhaps you didn't read it thoroughly enough since were accused us of being dishonest, liars, stupid, supporters of pedophilia and beastiality, anti-God, anti-scripture, etc. Doesn't matter though, it's closed and we're used to being called that.
Please, we can list off some random list of insults as well. Lets not fall into claiming that one group is a bigger "meany pie" than the other. Victim cards can't be played if your equally at fault.
 
Upvote 0

katautumn

Prodigal Daughter
May 14, 2015
7,498
157
44
Atlanta, GA
✟31,699.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I've never hinted that anything less than the Golden Rule is what is required to enter the Kingdom of God.

But that's not even Scriptural! The Bible says that it is through faith by grace in which we are saved, and not of ourselves.

Liberals believe anyone who lies, steals, spends their lives solely for sex, commits adultery, etc. is violating the Golden Rule and will not inherit the kingdom.

(bold emphasis mine) Here again, not Scriptural. The Bible does not say the only sin regarding human sexuality is spending your life solely for sex.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.