Liberal and Conservative

[hedrick]

Trying to defend sexual immorality is a fruitless investment. We will all be judged one day.

I don't mind people supporting traditional values, as long as they admit it, starting with admitting it to themselves. After all, the Catholic position is based on tradition more than Scripture. What I think is a mistake is to cherry-pick passages from Leviticus. No one has a rational response to ViaCrucis' point.

Paul is more complex, because you need to look at the whole argument in Romans in order to understand what's going on, but that's not what we've been talking about. This also isn't a group where that broader discussion is even legal, but I trust saying that Leviticus doesn't apply to Christians is non-controversial.

 

[dreadnought]

I don't mind people supporting traditional values, as long as they admit it, starting with admitting it to themselves. After all, the Catholic position is based on tradition more than Scripture. What I think is a mistake is to cherry-pick passages from Leviticus. No one has a rational response to ViaCrucis' point.

Paul is more complex, because you need to look at the whole argument in Romans in order to understand what's going on, but that's not what we've been talking about. This also isn't a group where that broader discussion is even legal, but I trust saying that Leviticus doesn't apply to Christians is non-controversial.

The Lord had a reason for commanding us to be sexually chaste. We may or may not understand the reason, but he knows what is best for us, and as we are taught, all sin leads to death.

 

[hedrick]

The Lord had a reason for commanding us to be sexually chaste. We may or may not understand the reason, but he knows what is best for us, and as we are taught, all sin leads to death.

This is a non sequitur.

 

[dreadnought]

This is a non sequitur.

The Lord taught us to be sexually chaste. That is all I need to know.

 

[SkyWriting]

There is an obvious, I think, rift in the Protestant Church. There are conservatives, who apparently believe the entire Bible is the inerrant Word of God. And there are liberals, who seem to believe we are bound to nothing the Bible says. Has anyone ever wondered if there is some middle ground?

There are Liberals who feel the scriptures accurately call them to show mercy and compassion as they would want others to be compassionate toward them.
I feel the Bible is accurate:
What Does the Bible Say About Mercy? - OpenBible.info

 

[Shempster]

There is an obvious, I think, rift in the Protestant Church. There are conservatives, who apparently believe the entire Bible is the inerrant Word of God. And there are liberals, who seem to believe we are bound to nothing the Bible says. Has anyone ever wondered if there is some middle ground?

Liberalism and conservatism are man made constructs with particular tenets. Each side has some good aspects and each side has bad aspects. Once one aligns with one side or the other, they are expected to follow ALL of the tenets or risk being harassed by those in their own group.

IMO, it is a very poor choice to identify with either group. Just reading the sermon on the mount alone shows that Jesus was a serious liberal. Yet today, many think that Jesus would be a conservative because he hates murder (abortion) yet he would approve of killing ones enemies before they kill you, which has been a conservative belief. I heard that Duck Dynasty guy once answer a question about Muslims. They asked him "what should we do about the Muslim problem?" His answer astounded me. He said "convert them or kill them".
Really?

I used to align with the conservative movement. Actually for about 20 years, but today refuse to identify with either side. It is a trap and a deception. The Christians should have never married the conservative movement back in 1980. It has given the church the bad reputation that many on the street have of them. It also was a catalyst for the liberals to start forcing their immorality on society in media and educational institutions.

As far as how to view the bible, I might wonder if following either side will take you down the wrong path.

 

[JackRT]

It also was a catalyst for the liberals to start forcing their immorality on society in media and educational institutions.

I have never seen a liberal force immorality on anyone. That being said, it is indeed true that liberals have acted or tried to act so as to prevent the imposition of certain moral standards on certain segments of society.

 

[Albion]

I have never seen a liberal force immorality on anyone.

I am going to make the assumption that you either define "liberal" in a strange way or else think that none of the obligations government has imposed upon the people and enforces under pain of imprisonment or fines, etc. are thought of by you as never, ever having been immoral. Wow.

 

[JackRT]

I am going to make the assumption that you either define "liberal" in a strange way or else think that none of the obligations government has imposed upon the people and enforces under pain of imprisonment or fines, etc. are thought of by you as never, ever having been immoral. Wow.

Nice straw man. If you wish to know my point of view, just ask rather than trying to tell me.

 

[Albion]

I think I know what was written.

I have never seen a liberal force immorality on anyone.

That's not a statement couched in imprecise or vague terms, is it?

 

[hedrick]

Liberalism and conservatism are man made constructs with particular tenets. Each side has some good aspects and each side has bad aspects. Once one aligns with one side or the other, they are expected to follow ALL of the tenets or risk being harassed by those in their own group.

I'd like to agree with this. It's certainly true that not most conservatives don't join in attacks on immigrants and minorities, and most liberals (we're talking Christians here) believe Jesus is God's son and accept the resurrection.

But still, I think Biblical inerrancy and the traditional positions associated with it form a fairly bright line, with views on gays and abortion following along.

I'd say you're still a conservative. Just a more moderate one.

The Christians should have never married the conservative movement back in 1980.

I agree with that. But I don't think you've freed yourself from the results. Two key enemies of the 1980 conservative agenda were homosexuality and abortion, which you still seem to be convinced of. (The third was traditional gender roles.) It wasn't until Trump that the anti-immigrant and racist aspects became prominent. And I'm not convinced most Christians have actually accepted them. I think they just hate homosexuality and abortion enough to tolerate it.

 

[durangodawood]

Trying to defend sexual immorality is a fruitless investment. We will all be judged one day.

Do you defend dietary immorality?

 

[Dave-W]

I have never seen a liberal force immorality on anyone.

They do it all the time.

Every person who was taken to court over not letting an unmarried couple rent an apartment or not baking a cake for a same sex couple is being forced to go along with immorality.

 

[JackRT]

They do it all the time.

Every person who was taken to court over not letting an unmarried couple rent an apartment or not baking a cake for a same sex couple is being forced to go along with immorality.

Or is it not letting people impose their understanding of morality on other people? The court is not making the slightest effort to change anyone's morality.

 

[Dave-W]

Or is it not letting people impose their understanding of morality on other people?

It is "imposing" either way. That is unavoidable unless the 2 parties never interact.

 

[Paidiske]

I think seeing your tenant, or your customer, as "imposing" their morality on you is an example of poor boundaries. You're not morally implicated in what your tenant or customer does.

 

[durangodawood]

I think seeing your tenant, or your customer, as "imposing" their morality on you is an example of poor boundaries. You're not morally implicated in what your tenant or customer does.

Not so sure about this. I think about people in the USA who indiscriminately sell guns.

 

[Belk]

They do it all the time.

Every person who was taken to court over not letting an unmarried couple rent an apartment or not baking a cake for a same sex couple is being forced to go along with immorality.

You are aware the having immorality forced on you and not being able to stop others from what you perceive to be immorality are two different things?

 

[Dave-W]

You are aware the having immorality forced on you and not being able to stop others from what you perceive to be immorality are two different things?

As you see it.

Many evangelical and fundamental Christians believe God holds them accountable for everything that goes on under their roof, no matter who is actually doing it.

That means that if I rent a room to an unmarried couple and they have sex, I am on the hook to God for it.

http://main.nc.us/spchurchofchrist/Be-Not.htm

 

[Belk]

As you see it.

Many evangelical and fundamental Christians believe God holds them accountable for everything that goes on under their roof, no matter who is actually doing it.

That means that if I rent a room to an unmarried couple and they have sex, I am on the hook to God for it.

http://main.nc.us/spchurchofchrist/Be-Not.htm

Then such Christians should likely not put themselves in the position of being held accountable for others. That would seem a risky proposition for them under the best of circumstances.