LGBTQ hijack of Rainbow in opposition to "Proud to be Delivered"?

[notforgotten]

I hope this is not going off topic. We all know that LGBTQ is an abomination to God and will not be in heaven. This is not to say that they can not be forgiven. I just started a study on whether there is sex in heaven and the little I have found indicates...no. I'm guessing that our libido's are removed. Thus making the LGBTQ none existent in heaven and their former lovers merely friends.

The flag I'm not really concerned about. It's the LGBTQ souls in the afterlife that I would be most concerned about.

I'm open to any feedback. I've been away for awhile and this is my first post. Again, I apologize if this is off topic. Peace.

 

[Lukaris]

I hope this is not going off topic. We all know that LGBTQ is an abomination to God and will not be in heaven. This is not to say that they can not be forgiven. I just started a study on whether there is sex in heaven and the little I have found indicates...no. I'm guessing that our libido's are removed. Thus making the LGBTQ none existent in heaven and their former lovers merely friends.

The flag I'm not really concerned about. It's the LGBTQ souls in the afterlife that I would be most concerned about.

I'm open to any feedback. I've been away for awhile and this is my first post. Again, I apologize if this is off topic. Peace.

I believe we have to be aware of what the Lord teaches in His commandments ( Matthew 19:16-19, Romans 13:8-10 etc.) as to what sizes up with salvation by grace ( Ephesians 2:8-10).

We are also told to not judge our neighbors & hope for them what we hope for ourselves ( see Matthew 7:1-12). Since sound doctrine is being eroded, we need to understand very carefully not to judge or put limits on or our own false guarantees of God’s mercy ( Romans 9:14-16).

Most people are in a wilderness today and it just gets more confusing. We cannot compromise on sin, we cannot assume our own self righteousness ( Luke 18:9-14) etc. There are many people who will be saved but only God knows and I believe Paul tells us carefully about this in Romans 2:1-29 ( especially Romans 2:11-16).

Hope this makes sense.

 

[Lukaris]

The pharisees had alot of pet doctrines, too.

The only thing Jesus expected of his followers was that they live out the kind of virtues he preached. He never expected his followers to articulate doctrines created by men.

Well I believe the Lord expects us to believe that He is our Savior and then comes the works ( John 3:16-21).

 

[The Liturgist]

We need to reclaim the rainbow as a symbol of God’s covenant with Moses and His descendants, which is to say every human now alive, and of humility, since we now live in peace and humility, and our Lord himself lists pride as a sin along with sexual immorality, of which sodomy and transsexuality and the other perversions encapsulated in “LGBTQ” surely are, and we need to promote conservative movements to reform the Episcopal Church, the UMC, the ELCA, the PCUSA, and especially the United Church of Canada and the United Church of Christ, as well as certain other left wing provinces in the Anglican Communion, which should be placed under the custodial guardianship of the metropolitans of the Global South, and other mainline Protestant churches in Europe, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and the Americas (primarily the US and Canada, but the churches of Latin America while better off are not devoid of problems in this respect).

Pride is such a great danger, however, for not only do we have numerous Patristic complains, but also a plethora of Bible verses, including some spoken by the Only Begotten Son and Word of God:

Sirach:

• "Humble yourself the more, the greater you are, and you will find favor with God." (Sirach 3:18)
• "Pride is hateful before God and man: and by both doth one commit iniquity." (Sirach 10:7)
• "The Lord hath cast down the thrones of proud princes, and hath set up the meek in their stead." (Sirach 10:14)
• "The beginning of pride is when one departs from God, and his heart is turned away from his Maker." (Sirach 10:12)

Proverbs:

• "Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall." (Proverbs 16:18)
• "When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with the humble is wisdom." (Proverbs 11:2)
• "One's pride will bring him low, but he who is lowly in spirit will obtain honor." (Proverbs 29:23)

Isaiah:

• "The haughty looks of man shall be brought low, and the lofty pride of men shall be humbled, and the Lord alone will be exalted in that day." (Isaiah 2:11)

1 John:

• "For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world." (1 John 2:16)

James:

• "Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you." (James 4:10)
• "As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil." (James 4:16)

2 Peter:

• "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment." (2 Peter 2:4)

Gospel according to Luke:

• "For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." (Luke 14:11)
• The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, which teaches about the danger of pride and the value of humility (Luke 18:9-14)

Gospel according to Matthew:

• "Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted." (Matthew 23:12)
• "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth." (Matthew 5:5)

Gospel according to John:

• "The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him, there is no falsehood." (John 7:18)
• "If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that you also should do just as I have done to you." (John 13:14-15)

Gospel According to Mark:

• 7:21-23 - "For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person."

 

[The Liturgist]

There are two places in Genesis where it says God personally came down to attend to a matter on earth.
I think it is significant. I do not think it is either naive or trivial.

1.) He came down to interrupt observe the collective project of a unified human race to build a tower at Babel.

And Jehovah said, Behold, they are one people, and they all have one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; and now nothing which they purpose to do will be kept from them.

Come, let Us go down and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech. (Gen. 11:6,7)

2.) He came down to verified that the deeds of Sodom really matched the cries of revolt ascending to heaven for God to hear.

And Jehovah said, The cry of Sodom and Gomorrah, how great it is; and their sin, how very heavy it is!
I shall go down and see whether they have done altogether according to its outcry, which has come to Me; and if not, I will know. (Gen. 18:20,21)

While some may regard these passages as naive I believe they hint of the descending of God in Christ at the end of this age.

In the second case, the proud declarations against God's natural order reached a fevor pitch of revolt.
That and a one world united effort make a great name for a society free from God will be two negative matters
to prompt direct intervention and judgment coming down to earth in God's direct visitation.

As for the rainbow, in another post I'd like to show how Revelation opens and (surprise) closes with a symbol of a rainbow.
The meaning of the two occurences I think is consistent with its significance in the flood of Noah, restraint in divine judgment.

God personally appears in several books, most notably the Gospels, at the Baptism of Christ, where all three divine persons of the Trinity: God the Father, God the Word and Son incarnate, and God the Holy Spirit, are heard, seen and heard and felt, and seen, respectively. The Father is also heard at the Transfiguration (the feast day of which is coming up on August 6th), and the Holy Spirit is seen in Acts, and probably at the Burning Bush and in the cloud and pillar of fire which guided Israel through the deserts of Sinai.

 

[The Liturgist]

The pharisees had alot of pet doctrines, too.

The only thing Jesus expected of his followers was that they live out the kind of virtues he preached. He never expected his followers to articulate doctrines created by men.

A good thing then that the doctrines of the Eastern Orthodox Churches and the Oriental Orthodox Churches were created by God and not men, except insofar our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ is fully God and fully Man. Likewise, the doctrines of other Traditional churches such as the Continuing Anglican churches like the Anglican Province of Christ the King, which enumerates seven sacraments like the Orthodox and Catholics, and other Anglo Catholic churches, the Evangelical Catholic Lutherans of traditional synods like the Mission Province of the Church of Sweden, and the LCMS and LCC, the latter being a beacon of tradition in Canada, as @MarkRohfrietsch can attest, the conservative Congregational churches which remain independent of the UCC such as Park Street Church, the Eastern Catholic Churches which benefitted from Vatican II (excluding the Maronite Church, which did suffer), and the Traditional Latin Mass communities presently suffering owing to the repeal of Summorum Pontificum, and also the Old Catholic Churches of Poland and Norway which formed the Union of Scranton after the Polish Old Catholic church (known as the Polish National Catholic Church) was ejected from the Union of Utrecht for being faithful to scripture and Holy Tradition, and many others. For example, the Southern Baptists represented by our friend @Der Alte do a wonderful job in teaching moral theology, with Dr. Albert Mohler the foremost Western moral theologian since the death of Dr. James Kennedy.

 

[oikonomia]

God personally appears in several books, most notably the Gospels, at the Baptism of Christ, where all three divine persons of the Trinity: God the Father, God the Word and Son incarnate, and God the Holy Spirit, are heard, seen and heard and felt, and seen, respectively. The Father is also heard at the Transfiguration (the feast day of which is coming up on August 6th), and the Holy Spirit is seen in Acts, and probably at the Burning Bush and in the cloud and pillar of fire which guided Israel through the deserts of Sinai.

Yes. It is wonderful that God wants to be seen.
He hides Himself for a reason. Yet He wants to be seen - in Christ, in Christians, manifesting God in the flesh.

 

[Serendipitous Waffle]

I'm not well versed in this subject, and my beliefs typically boil down to "live and let live". However, I do believe many of us are trying to make the Lord conform to our ideals instead of us conforming to him. And that is a bad path to take.

Again, I've always been "live and let live". If someone chooses to live in sin, that's their choice as people with free will. However, we can't contort Christianity into accepting something that it clearly states it does not.

You either are, or you aren't a Christian. There is no Christian lite. My 0.2$

 

[BobRyan]

I'm not well versed in this subject, and my beliefs typically boil down to "live and let live". However, I do believe many of us are trying to make the Lord conform to our ideals instead of us conforming to him. And that is a bad path to take.

Again, I've always been "live and let live". If someone chooses to live in sin, that's their choice as people with free will. However, we can't contort Christianity into accepting something that it clearly states it does not.

You either are, or you aren't a Christian. There is no Christian lite. My 0.2$

So the OP is about a former number of LGBTQ+ individuals who converted to Christ and were freed from their LGBTQ lifestyle via the power of the gospel.

IN your view - is that a "good thing" or a "bad thing" that they were willing to share their testimony of what Christ has done for them personally?

 

[BobRyan]

There are two places in Genesis where it says God personally came down to attend to a matter on earth.
I think it is significant. I do not think it is either naive or trivial.

1.) He came down to interrupt observe the collective project of a unified human race to build a tower at Babel.

And Jehovah said, Behold, they are one people, and they all have one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; and now nothing which they purpose to do will be kept from them.

Come, let Us go down and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech. (Gen. 11:6,7)

2.) He came down to verified that the deeds of Sodom really matched the cries of revolt ascending to heaven for God to hear.

And Jehovah said, The cry of Sodom and Gomorrah, how great it is; and their sin, how very heavy it is!
I shall go down and see whether they have done altogether according to its outcry, which has come to Me; and if not, I will know. (Gen. 18:20,21)

And He contacts Noah to build the ark - the NT says Noah was a "preacher of righteousness" - warning the people of his day and calling upon them to flee the judgment to come.

As for the rainbow, in another post I'd like to show how Revelation opens and (surprise) closes with a symbol of a rainbow.
The meaning of the two occurences I think is consistent with its significance in the flood of Noah, restraint in divine judgment.

And as in the case of Noah (as Christ points out in Matt 24) - there was a limit beyond which the probation of the wicked closed.

 

[BobRyan]

I agree. A homosexual who regularly and continually has relations with the same sex.... would be hard pressed to convince me that they are a Christian.

However, there are people who regularly and continually repeat the same sin... and are considered to be solid Christians.

So lets take the case of a pedophile, or a prostitute who says they are addicted to bad behavior but are trying to stop so they only engage in it now and then.

Why don't we hold these people to the same barometer of sin?

I agree we should hold them to the same standard as in the two cases above.

Homosexuality is held to be so abhorrent... while our petty sins are just as sinful in the eyes of God and we give a pass.

Coveting is a lot more "common" than prostitution and pedophilia - but I don't equivocate between the two.

In 1 Cor 5 we see someone expelled from church for a certain sin - but does that mean that nobody in church that remained and was not expelled - never ever coveted during that same time? I think we know that such a thing would most certainly have happened.

Still -- we can agree that coveting is a sin.

 

[Serendipitous Waffle]

IN your view - is that a "good thing" or a "bad thing" that they were willing to share their testimony of what Christ has done for them personally?

100% good in my view.

 

[JacksBratt]

I think if someone wants to put a rainbow on a flag then they should be able to. Nobody owns exclusive rights to all rainbow pictures or symbols in general.

I think you're right. You can put a rainbow on a flag if you want.. But... don't make it the icon of a lifestyle that is forbidden by the One who created the real life manifestation that you are making an image of.

It's not even "of God" but the Dome on the Rock is sacred to Muslims. Why not make a flag, showing the image of the Dome on the Rock... and have it the icon that represents... well anything not Muslim....

You would have death threats immediately.

The masterminds behind these things are not dummies... Remember when Molson Canadian beer had the marketing slogan... "I AM Canadian"?

You don't think that they knew exactly what they were doing?

 

[JacksBratt]

Not so, you are in denial. Becareful in the way you go.

So, we are back to that debate? Do Christians sin after they become Christians? Do they lose their salvation every time the sin? Once Saved always saved?

Humans are weak. Humans are of the flesh. Different people struggle with different sins.

No person has the right to state whether a person is saved or not.

Some of the nicest, most moral, kind and gentle people I know... are not Christians and they out right deny that they need Christ.

Some people I know, who are born again, baptized, bible reading church going people.. who have and do struggle constantly with their sins.

Some church going Christians are true Christians.. but they gossip, lie, speed, are gluttons and hypocritical. They are unaware of their constant sin and feel self righteous.

Many Christians struggle and fail with their personal sins, all the time...

However, when Christ looks at them He sees them as white as snow...

 

[JacksBratt]

So lets take the case of a pedophile, or a prostitute who says they are addicted to bad behavior but are trying to stop so they only engage in it now and then.

I think that pedophiles should be jailed for life... They can still be Christians if they are humbled and repentive... If they continue to fail at this heinous crime... they should be locked up.

Prostitution is, IMO, just getting paid for an addiction to sex. Or, a last ditch effort to feed or house themselves. They should be seeking help for their addiction or support for their life so they can avoid the need.

I can't see a Christian backsliding into prostitution very often.

I agree we should hold them to the same standard as in the two cases above.

Coveting is a lot more "common" than prostitution and pedophilia - but I don't equivocate between the two.

In 1 Cor 5 we see someone expelled from church for a certain sin - but does that mean that nobody in church that remained and was not expelled - never ever coveted during that same time? I think we know that such a thing would most certainly have happened.

Still -- we can agree that coveting is a sin.

Yes, coveting is a sin.

 

[JustMe7777]

Christianity will not always sit idly by in such instances... a few Billion Christians in the world will eventually take a united stand.

Except that there are probably only in the millions that are legit Jesus loving and following Christians.

 

[oikonomia]

And He contacts Noah to build the ark - the NT says Noah was a "preacher of righteousness" - warning the people of his day and calling upon them to flee the judgment to come.

And as in the case of Noah (as Christ points out in Matt 24) - there was a limit beyond which the probation of the wicked closed.

Yes Noah was a herald of righteousness and a living testimony of righteousness.
Through him God had the ground to point to such one as ground to condemn the world.

And did not spare the ancient world but guarded Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; (2 Pet. 2:5)

He walked with God and lived a life which changed the age.
His living and preaching condemned that surrounding age.
Heand his family's living gave God the ground to bring in judgment.

By faith Noah, having been divinely instructed concerning things not yet seen and being moved by pious fear, prepared an ark for the salvation of his house, through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. (Heb. 11:7)

And he was saved by what he built.
Much is to be said about the significance to us Christians today of Noah.
The existence of some who overcome also furnish God the ground to judge the world and change the age.

 

[The Hour IS AT HAND]

That's the kind of church I go to (UCC, an "open and affirming" congregation) . I don't want to go to a church that is steeped in toxicity. There are folks from all sorts of backgrounds, denominations, and races at our church, and the pastor is a very caring old lady. We do alot of community ministries, like food pantries, or helping people access social services.

I just can't see Jesus bashing gay people, or holding their lives up for special scrutiny. And increasingly even alot of Evangelical scholars are starting to agree, like Tim Mackie.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Dont get tricked by the sinful ways of the world

Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

 

[RileyG]

I hope this is not going off topic. We all know that LGBTQ is an abomination to God and will not be in heaven. This is not to say that they can not be forgiven. I just started a study on whether there is sex in heaven and the little I have found indicates...no. I'm guessing that our libido's are removed. Thus making the LGBTQ none existent in heaven and their former lovers merely friends.

The flag I'm not really concerned about. It's the LGBTQ souls in the afterlife that I would be most concerned about.

I'm open to any feedback. I've been away for awhile and this is my first post. Again, I apologize if this is off topic. Peace.

I agree completely. The world will call us "homophobes" and "bigots" if we call sin sin. Thankfully, God is faithful and will never abandon us.

 

[The Liturgist]

I believe we have to be aware of what the Lord teaches in His commandments ( Matthew 19:16-19, Romans 13:8-10 etc.) as to what sizes up with salvation by grace ( Ephesians 2:8-10).

We are also told to not judge our neighbors & hope for them what we hope for ourselves ( see Matthew 7:1-12). Since sound doctrine is being eroded, we need to understand very carefully not to judge or put limits on or our own false guarantees of God’s mercy ( Romans 9:14-16).

Most people are in a wilderness today and it just gets more confusing. We cannot compromise on sin, we cannot assume our own self righteousness ( Luke 18:9-14) etc. There are many people who will be saved but only God knows and I believe Paul tells us carefully about this in Romans 2:1-29 ( especially Romans 2:11-16).

Hope this makes sense.

Forgive me, but I did not read in @notforgotten any hatred or desire for the damnation of homosexual perverts who lust after strange flesh, but rather a reiteration of what the Holy Apostle Paul taught concerning them, and then a concern for their souls, which implies praying for them and for their repentance and salvation, which is entirely in line with Orthodox thought. I am a terrible sinner, the worst sinner that I know, and as such I desire my Orthodox brethren, and Roman Catholics and other Christians as well for good measure, to pray for me, and to ask the saints to intercede for me, so that through God’s grace I might be spared, though unworthy. Likewise, with @notforgotten I pray for the salvation of those who are in any respect sexually perverse, which also includes heterosexual fornicators and adulterers, for I have several friends who suffer from what was until recently classified as a mental disorder, homosexuality, and which probably should be, but psychiatry is vulnerable as a medical speciality, moreso than fields such as nephrology or gastrointestinal surgery, to politics and political pressure, as demonstrated by the profession being abused as a means of incarcerating Orthodox clergy during the Communist rule in the USSR and Eastern Europe, particularly Bulgaria and Romania. I would note that of my friends who are homosexual, of the men, several of them report having been sodomized against their will as boys or young men, for example, I have a friend who recently retired from the Navy after an 18 year career in submarines, and he reported being raped by a chaplain’s mate shortly after he was first stationed at Pearl Harbor when he was 18 or 19.

And it is my desire they be saved, so I pray for them, because I take the warnings of St. Paul seriously, and also believe that just as St. Silouan the Athonite warned us not to consider ourselves uniquely holy saints, or conversely, beyond the hope of salvation, that we should also not assume our friends and loved ones have assumed either category lest we stop praying for them, but especially to not believe they are beyond hope of salvation.