Leviticus 18: 22 - 30 explained contextually.

[tgg]

This book is probably one of the most misused in the Bible, primarily by those who use it to justify hatred and phobia of homosexual people.
Like every book in the Bible, it should be understood contextually, NOT LITERALLY!!! THIS is where most Christians have gone wrong.

The verse in Leviticus actually deals with sexual rituals practised by the Canaanites, which were performed by the high priests of Molech who also doubled up as prostitutes. These priests wore goddess masks and vestments and whose customers were male. Hence this is where 'lying with a man as with a woman' came about.

The book only pertained to the things God wanted the priesthood to be aware of. What offended God was the fact that the people were involved with worshiping Molech, Baal and other Gods and Goddesses.

1 Corinthians 6-9 again has got nothing to do with hatred of homosexuality. The word that Paul referred to so often abused by the church as 'fornication' is a mistranslation of the word 'porneia'. The goddess Venus was a principle diety of Corinth, and the religious authorities employed 1000 prostitutes on a daily basis as a means of worshipping fertility gods. This was the type of sex that Paul had a beef about.

Romans 1: 26-27 refers to men whom we know today as paedophiles. These are the men who exert sexual dominance over BOTH women and young children. The men in this culture practised paederasty, which referred to heterosexual men (often married) having anal sex with young boy prostitutes. As reprehensible as virtually all of humanity finds it today, back then this practise was not only legal but widespread and accepted!

Because Bible languages were written in Hebrew and Greek, there is NO translation for sexuality. Immoral sexual behaviour such as pederasty and adultery DID exist and were quite rightly punished.

If we are Christians, then we should seek to find out what Jesus himself said about homosexuality. There are no references to him speaking out against it. Instead of focusing on hatred and injustice described by Christians and other homophobes, people today are more concerned about acts between consenting adults.

Instead of focusing on unconditional love, most Christians have been obsessed by obscure passages about Levitican cleanliness and St. Paul's misunderstood comments in the book of Romans. This has got to stop!

It seems to me that there are many Christians who use these verses to judge, condemn and patronise people (all this 'love the sinner hate the sin' is a bunch of ****!).

The thrust of the Bible is meant to be about transcendent, unconditional love and acceptance of God for mankind.

Just in case anybody is wondering: I am not homosexual, nor am I active in the homosexual community where I live.

 

[SackLunch]

Nice try. The Bible is very explicit that homosexuality is a sin and a lifestyle choice. All the mistranslations, retranslations, and detranslations isn't gonna change that. Homosexuality will never be an acceptable lifestyle choice in America. Sorry.

Man has tried since the dawn of time to fit his beliefs around God's Word. That doesn't work. God's Word is God's Word - and He does not change.

Leviticus 18:22-30

22Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

23Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

24Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:

25And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.

26Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:

27(For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled

28That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.

29For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.

30Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.

 

[Brennin]

This book is probably one of the most misused in the Bible, primarily by those who use it to justify hatred and phobia of homosexual people.
Like every book in the Bible, it should be understood contextually, NOT LITERALLY!!! THIS is where most Christians have gone wrong.

The verse in Leviticus actually deals with sexual rituals practised by the Canaanites, which were performed by the high priests of Molech who also doubled up as prostitutes. These priests wore goddess masks and vestments and whose customers were male. Hence this is where 'lying with a man as with a woman' came about.

The book only pertained to the things God wanted the priesthood to be aware of. What offended God was the fact that the people were involved with worshiping Molech, Baal and other Gods and Goddesses.

1 Corinthians 6-9 again has got nothing to do with hatred of homosexuality. The word that Paul referred to so often abused by the church as 'fornication' is a mistranslation of the word 'porneia'. The goddess Venus was a principle diety of Corinth, and the religious authorities employed 1000 prostitutes on a daily basis as a means of worshipping fertility gods. This was the type of sex that Paul had a beef about.

Romans 1: 26-27 refers to men whom we know today as paedophiles. These are the men who exert sexual dominance over BOTH women and young children. The men in this culture practised paederasty, which referred to heterosexual men (often married) having anal sex with young boy prostitutes. As reprehensible as virtually all of humanity finds it today, back then this practise was not only legal but widespread and accepted!

Because Bible languages were written in Hebrew and Greek, there is NO translation for sexuality. Immoral sexual behaviour such as pederasty and adultery DID exist and were quite rightly punished.

If we are Christians, then we should seek to find out what Jesus himself said about homosexuality. There are no references to him speaking out against it. Instead of focusing on hatred and injustice described by Christians and other homophobes, people today are more concerned about acts between consenting adults.

Instead of focusing on unconditional love, most Christians have been obsessed by obscure passages about Levitican cleanliness and St. Paul's misunderstood comments in the book of Romans. This has got to stop!

It seems to me that there are many Christians who use these verses to judge, condemn and patronise people (all this 'love the sinner hate the sin' is a bunch of ****!).

The thrust of the Bible is meant to be about transcendent, unconditional love and acceptance of God for mankind.

Just in case anybody is wondering: I am not homosexual, nor am I active in the homosexual community where I live.

So sorry, but you are in error. Paul condemns homoeroticism just as surely as pederasty. The author of Leviticus also condemns homoeroticism in no uncertain terms.

 

[Brennin]

Nice try. The Bible is very explicit that homosexuality is a sin and a lifestyle choice. All the mistranslations, retranslations, and detranslations isn't gonna change that. Homosexuality will never be an acceptable lifestyle choice in America. Sorry.

Amen to that (except, perhaps, that bit about "lifestyle choice," if by that you mean homosexuals choose to be attracted to people of the same sex).

 

[SackLunch]

Furthermore, God says that He will "cut off the souls" of those who practice homosexuality. This is a clear reference to God cutting off their salvation. It ought to make homosexuals quake in their boots.

Leviticus 18:29
For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.

 

[BMac14]

And another thing that God did was create a woman, Eve, for Adam. Thus, God intended woman and man to be together, not man and man or woman and woman.

 

[BarbB]

I unconditionally love the friends I have who are homosexual. I pray for them and socialize with them and do business with them. I do hate their sin as I hate my own sin.

 

[SackLunch]

Amen to that (except, perhaps, that bit about "lifestyle choice," if by that you mean homosexuals choose to be attracted to people of the same sex).

Well, I believe that God clearly calls it a choice. He never says "Oh it's okay if you if you are attracted to members of the opposite sex." He says it's ALL a sin. And homosexuality is a choice. It's not "who you are," it's "what you choose to do."

 

[Brennin]

Well, I believe that God clearly calls it a choice. He never says "Oh it's okay if you if you are attracted to members of the opposite sex." He says it's ALL a sin. And homosexuality is a choice. It's not "who you are," it's "what you choose to do."

People choose to engage in homoeroticism (which I agree is wrong), but I have a hard time believing most homosexuals choose to be attracted to the same sex.

 

[levi501]

nice post tgg.
I await see if anyone offers any arguments instead of simply asserting you're wrong.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

nice post tgg.
I await see if anyone offers any arguments instead of simply asserting you're wrong.

Why should they have to, the OP is all "because I say so" anyways and to prove that what was asserted is false is the fact that it isn't there. To go beyond that would be to prove a negative and that isn't logically relevant.

 

[SackLunch]

nice post tgg.
I await see if anyone offers any arguments instead of simply asserting you're wrong.

Er...done that...

Leviticus 18:22-30

22Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

23Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

24Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:

25And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.

26Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:

27 For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled

28That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.

29For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.

30Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.

 

[Brennin]

tgg:

Where did you study Ancient Greek? What New Testament scholars (and/or Old Testament scholars) have you read? Where did you study ANE cultures? What sort of criteria do you use in your exegesis of scripture?

 

[Matt Never Existed]

SackLunch, what translation are you using?

Well, I guess the point is moot, since when something is translated, it loses a lot of its real meaning from its home language.

~~~~

Also, for people here who are saying homosexuality (Liking members of the same sex, not the acts that follow such feelings) isn't a choice, I raise this question:

Did heterosexual feelings 'naturally' start to show up in you around puberty, or did you choose to be straight?

Why would it be any different for homosexual feelings?

Edit: Wierd double-O craziness happening.

 

[SackLunch]

People choose to engage in homoeroticism (which I agree is wrong), but I have a hard time believing most homosexuals choose to be attracted to the same sex.

I hate to argue with you, Brennin. But the Bible condemns homosexuality in all shapes and forms. To say otherwise weakens your arguments, I hate to say. You would have to say that it's fine and dandy to be a homosexual, but not to act on it. That doesn't hold water.

It's like if I'm a married man and I'm attracted to other women, flirtatious and all, you're saying it's OK to feel this way but not OK to have sex with the women. God regards it ALL as sin - the thoughts, the actions - whatever. God's standards are very high. And I'm just glad He gave us Jesus as a way out!

 

[Matt Never Existed]

I hate to argue with you, Brennin. But the Bible condemns homosexuality in all shapes and forms. To say otherwise weakens your arguments, I hate to say. You would have to say that it's fine and dandy to be a homosexual, but not to act on it. That doesn't hold water.

It's like if I'm a married man and I'm attracted to other women, flirtatious and all, you're saying it's OK to feel this way but not OK to have sex with the women. God regards it ALL as sin - the thoughts, the actions - whatever. God's standards are very high. And I'm just glad He gave us Jesus as a way out!

So its like the saying, "Damned if we do, Damned if we don't."

 

[SackLunch]

SackLunch, what translation are you using?

Well, I guess the point is moot, since when something is translated, it loses a lot of its real meaning from its home language.

~~~~

Also, for people here who are saying homosexuality (Liking members of the same sex, not the acts that follow such feelings) isn't a choice, I raise this question:

Did heterosexual feelings 'naturally' start to show up in you around puberty, or did you choose to be straight?

Why would it be any different for homosexual feelings?

Edit: Wierd double-O craziness happening.

I used the KJV, the most accurate version of the Bible available. It hasn't lost its meaning. God specifically says homosexuality is a sin and a choice, so much so that God would "cut off the soul" of anyone involved in it.

See my post above for more info.

 

[christalee4]

I unconditionally love the friends I have who are homosexual. I pray for them and socialize with them and do business with them. I do hate their sin as I hate my own sin.

That is the fairly rare Christian answer to homosexuality. Many may pray for them and hate their sins, but they won't socialize, do business with them, or even go near them.

 

[Brennin]

I hate to argue with you, Brennin. But the Bible condemns homosexuality in all shapes and forms. To say otherwise weakens your arguments, I hate to say. You would have to say that it's fine and dandy to be a homosexual, but not to act on it. That doesn't hold water.

It's like if I'm a married man and I'm attracted to other women, flirtatious and all, you're saying it's OK to feel this way but not OK to have sex with the women. God regards it ALL as sin - the thoughts, the actions - whatever. God's standards are very high. And I'm just glad He gave us Jesus as a way out!

SackLunch:

I believe homosexuals should not entertain or dwell on homoerotic thoughts if they wish to live a virtuous life (or be a Christian, which entails virtuous living).

In any event, I think we should focus on our common cause in this thread, which is to oppose the perversion and distortion of scripture, which really irritates me.

 

[Matt Never Existed]

I used the KJV, the most accurate version of the Bible available. It hasn't lost its meaning. God specifically says homosexuality is a sin and a choice, so much so that God would "cut off the soul" of anyone involved in it.

See my post above for more info.

Actually, the 'most accurate' version of the bible would be it in its original languages, and taken in the cultural context of those days. Then, it would be accurate.

You, sadly, are going off a translation, and incorrect context.

Also, where does it ever say homosexuality (The attraction to the same sex) is a choice? I'm not speaking of homosexual acts, since sex (Hetro and Homo) are normally willing acts.

-Matt

P.S. We all know John 3:16. But take the few seconds and read John 3:17 as well. It shows us our true mission!

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.