Levels on Noah's Ark

[shar]

in addition to the question about how many levels on the ark, i'd ask: what about all the species of animals that couldn't survive out of their home regions, like polar bears? how did god kill all life on the face of the earth with a flood, including sea animals, like whales and sharks who wouldn't be affected by a deluge of water? were there whales and sharks on the ark? if so, how did they survive out of water for 11 months? what did the animals eat when they got off the ark, since all the plant life was destroyed, and there would be no prey for the meateaters to hunt? did noah have some really big aquariums, one for the salt fish and another for the freshwater fish? after the earth had been submerged in water for 11 months, how could there be an olive branch for the dove to find? and how could all the races of humankind evolve in the very short period from the flood to now, including african blacks, blond scandinavians, yellow asians and redskinned native american indians?

 

[Diatrive]

I think even the theists are pretty clear in the ludicrous nature of the logistics presented by such an idea. I would guess most would regard it as a fable that carries its weight more by it's implied meaning than with its factual retelling of an actual event.

Think back to the time, and peoples world scope. At that point they didn't have world travel. If there was a great local flood they could only make the conclusion that the whole world had flooded, for in essence "the whole world" that they were exposed to had been flooded.
That is assuming that for the sake of discussion that the bible is a factual document to any degree.

 

[Techbot]

in addition to the question about how many levels on the ark, i'd ask: what about all the species of animals that couldn't survive out of their home regions, like polar bears? how did god kill all life on the face of the earth with a flood, including sea animals, like whales and sharks who wouldn't be affected by a deluge of water? were there whales and sharks on the ark? if so, how did they survive out of water for 11 months? what did the animals eat when they got off the ark, since all the plant life was destroyed, and there would be no prey for the meateaters to hunt? did noah have some really big aquariums, one for the salt fish and another for the freshwater fish? after the earth had been submerged in water for 11 months, how could there be an olive branch for the dove to find? and how could all the races of humankind evolve in the very short period from the flood to now, including african blacks, blond scandinavians, yellow asians and redskinned native american indians?

Good question. I'm by no means an expert, but I don't think Gods intent was to kill every living thing. Why did he flood the earth to begin with? Because of sinful humans. He was after the sinful human race. I believe Noah only took aboard those animals that wouldn't be able to survive the waters.

 

[serendipity79]

i don't remember where i saw this but many historical documents do support a great flood in the armenia area. I believe the majority of the old testament is a parable to help us understand what God wants for us in our lives. The history channel had agreat special about the arc, very interesting. There were 2 men in 20th century that claim to have seen it. however Mount Ararat is closed off to expiditions now because of turkish guerrilla's in the area making it very dangerous.

 

[Techbot]

The history channel had agreat special about the arc, very interesting. There were 2 men in 20th century that claim to have seen it. however Mount Ararat is closed off to expiditions now because of turkish guerrilla's in the area making it very dangerous.

I saw that as well. Very interesting special. You'd think though that for a discovery THAT immense, one that could change mankinds views of his history, that the Turkish government would allow expeditions, even encourage them. Imagine the ramifications of that...Turkey being the place where Noah and his family touched down and settled down to live.

 

[Arikay]

Would the name of one of those men bee Ron Wyatt?

i don't remember where i saw this but many historical documents do support a great flood in the armenia area. I believe the majority of the old testament is a parable to help us understand what God wants for us in our lives. The history channel had agreat special about the arc, very interesting. There were 2 men in 20th century that claim to have seen it. however Mount Ararat is closed off to expiditions now because of turkish guerrilla's in the area making it very dangerous.

 

[Philosoft]

Good question. I'm by no means an expert, but I don't think Gods intent was to kill every living thing.

Well, he didn't have to kill anything but humans if he didn't want to.

Why did he flood the earth to begin with? Because of sinful humans. He was after the sinful human race.

Employing a global flood to destroy but one (rather localized) species is like using a tactical nuke to kill a virus.

I believe Noah only took aboard those animals that wouldn't be able to survive the waters.

Well, yeah. No one is suggesting Noah had to build a saltwater tank for the tuna.

 

[Philosoft]

I guess you could say that I believe in evolution ... in a sense. I don't think men evolved from apes. It takes a LOT of courage to say "I came from a monkey!"

Indeed. However, it takes much less courage to say, "Humans and monkeys have a common ancestor."

Where have you ever seen that it took "days or weeks"? And who ever said that Noah took flies, frogs, fish and the likes aboard the ark? Don't you think these creatures could have survived the waters?

Flies? No. Frogs? No.

How many different varieties of bears are there? Hundreds? Thousands? They all have the same basic scientific family though. Why?

Because they have a common ancestor?

 

[Techbot]

Because they have a common ancestor?

That's the point I've been getting at. The ancestors were taken aboard, not two of every type of species.

 

[Arikay]

Well, besides the tons of evidence against the Global flood, this is a good example of evidence against multiple common ancestory coming from the the Ark.

Why is this good evidence? As far as creationism goes, we can make predictions based on this (and other creationist claims). We can then test the predictions and see if the evidence matches or not.

In this case the creationist prediction is that the fossil record should show a large gap between pre flood and post flood species. It doesn't.

However, another interesting effect of this thought is that it supports a type of Hyper Evolution. If the flood happend around 4300 years ago, then within less than 4300 years, Every single species needed to evolve from their ancestor. Thats a very fast, and very large bit of evolution.

That's the point I've been getting at. The ancestors were taken aboard, not two of every type of species.

 

[Philosoft]

That's the point I've been getting at. The ancestors were taken aboard, not two of every type of species.

This just in: all living things have a common ancestor. Common descent is not a controversial theory, despite protestations otherwise.

 

[Techbot]

Well, besides the tons of evidence against the Global flood, this is a good example of evidence against multiple common ancestory coming from the the Ark.

Why is this good evidence? As far as creationism goes, we can make predictions based on this (and other creationist claims). We can then test the predictions and see if the evidence matches or not.

In this case the creationist prediction is that the fossil record should show a large gap between pre flood and post flood species. It doesn't.

However, another interesting effect of this thought is that it supports a type of Hyper Evolution. If the flood happend around 4300 years ago, then within less than 4300 years, Every single species needed to evolve from their ancestor. Thats a very fast, and very large bit of evolution.

I've seen evidence that proves a global flood. Lots of nice little specials on the Discovery channel to name one resource where fossilized bones of saltwater fish are found embedded thousands of feet above sea level...

I've also read (and I'd have to try to look it up again) that most cultures, not just the Christians trying to prove the bible is right and literal, have some sort of "flood" myth in their history. China was one that I can think of off the top of my head. Yet this isn't a christian nation. What would they have to gain in supporting the biblical account of the flood?

 

[Arikay]

This is starting to fit more in the science forum, so I will keep it semi short.

"I've seen evidence that proves a global flood."

But does it stand up to scrutiny?

"to name one resource where fossilized bones of saltwater fish are found embedded thousands of feet above sea level..."

But, some important questions.

Do we find fish fossils on all high mountains? (no)
Could a changing earth push dirt and rocks and fossils from the bottom of a sea and form them into a mountain? (yes)
Are all the fish fossils modern or ancient? (ancient)

We would expect opposite answers if these supported a global flood.

"I've also read (and I'd have to try to look it up again) that most cultures, not just the Christians trying to prove the bible is right and literal, have some sort of "flood" myth in their history."

Three interesting things about this,

1) Not all cultures have flood myths. However, many cultures were built along water ways and seas. Some even built their agriculture around a annual flooding (egyptians). Because of this, we could expect that Flood myths would be common.

2) Many cultures had a flat earth myth. Does that make it true?

3) This is the most important point. This is good evidence that there was no global biblical flood. See, if the flood happend like it was supposed to, there should be No other cultures around, Everyone except for 8 people should have Died. Entire cultures should have stopped. But they didnt. They continued. Not only did they continue, but they continued with no interuption and no record of a world wide flood. (this is of course assuming you are using the Ussher biblical date of the flood).

Like I said, this is more for the science forum, so here are three things that I have written and saved about the flood,
Math of the flood,
http://www.geocities.com/arikayx/mathofflood.html
A look at a couple YEC flood models,
http://www.geocities.com/arikayx/Floodmodels.html
Creationism as science (a look at the predictions I mentioned),
http://www.geocities.com/arikayx/Creationismasscience.html

For more information about the global flood or its falsifacation, I would recomend looking at the science forum, there are many good posts there, like for example, Frumious Bandersnatch's Biogeographies post.

I've seen evidence that proves a global flood. Lots of nice little specials on the Discovery channel to name one resource where fossilized bones of saltwater fish are found embedded thousands of feet above sea level...

I've also read (and I'd have to try to look it up again) that most cultures, not just the Christians trying to prove the bible is right and literal, have some sort of "flood" myth in their history. China was one that I can think of off the top of my head. Yet this isn't a christian nation. What would they have to gain in supporting the biblical account of the flood?

 

[Techbot]

This is starting to fit more in the science forum, so I will keep it semi short.

"I've seen evidence that proves a global flood."

But does it stand up to scrutiny?

"to name one resource where fossilized bones of saltwater fish are found embedded thousands of feet above sea level..."

But, some important questions.

Do we find fish fossils on all high mountains? (no)
Could a changing earth push dirt and rocks and fossils from the bottom of a sea and form them into a mountain? (yes)
Are all the fish fossils modern or ancient? (ancient)

We would expect opposite answers if these supported a global flood.

"I've also read (and I'd have to try to look it up again) that most cultures, not just the Christians trying to prove the bible is right and literal, have some sort of "flood" myth in their history."

Three interesting things about this,

1) Not all cultures have flood myths. However, many cultures were built along water ways and seas. Some even built their agriculture around a annual flooding (egyptians). Because of this, we could expect that Flood myths would be common.

2) Many cultures had a flat earth myth. Does that make it true?

3) This is the most important point. This is good evidence that there was no global biblical flood. See, if the flood happend like it was supposed to, there should be No other cultures around, Everyone except for 8 people should have Died. Entire cultures should have stopped. But they didnt. They continued. Not only did they continue, but they continued with no interuption and no record of a world wide flood. (this is of course assuming you are using the Ussher biblical date of the flood).

Like I said, this is more for the science forum, so here are three things that I have written and saved about the flood,
Math of the flood,
http://www.geocities.com/arikayx/mathofflood.html
A look at a couple YEC flood models,
http://www.geocities.com/arikayx/Floodmodels.html
Creationism as science (a look at the predictions I mentioned),
http://www.geocities.com/arikayx/Creationismasscience.html

For more information about the global flood or its falsifacation, I would recomend looking at the science forum, there are many good posts there, like for example, Frumious Bandersnatch's Biogeographies post.

Very good points. I'll look over those sites.

 

[ByGrace]

lol, 3 stories? There goes all credibility whatsoever, if the story even had credibility.

Hmmm, I wonder if this was just another lame attempt to slander Christianity? When I see Noah I will ask him how many stories there were and then shout it down to you.

 

[Techbot]

Hmmm, I wonder if this was just another lame attempt to slander Christianity? When I see Noah I will ask him how many stories there were and then shout it down to you.

I'm a Christian and I don't see it as slander. It's easy to call "slander" on someone instead of trying to reason it out or show the proof through scripture. I'm having a hard time dealing with people now who don't want to answer valid questions about things like this. I get "demons did it" "you just have to believe" and so forth. To an outsider, a non-believer, it looks like people are dodging the questions because we don't know the answers.

When I see Noah I will ask him how many stories there were and then shout it down to you

Lets work instead on being able to have them there next to you to hear the answer themselves.

 

[armed2010]

Hmmm, I wonder if this was just another lame attempt to slander Christianity? When I see Noah I will ask him how many stories there were and then shout it down to you.

Am I slandering brooklyn by saying I have a bridge in brooklyn I want to sell you?

 

[Blindfaith]

Not quite the same thing.

 

[Jet Black]

Hmmm, I wonder if this was just another lame attempt to slander Christianity? When I see Noah I will ask him how many stories there were and then shout it down to you.

no, just a literal interpretation of the bible. did you ever see my calculation of the water flow required to create a global flood 5 kilometers deep?

 

[Techbot]

no, just a literal interpretation of the bible. did you ever see my calculation of the water flow required to create a global flood 5 kilometers deep?

I have an older book called Methuselahs Secret. Good reading. It's based on a theory that the earth used to be covered in an ice canopy - lending to the long lives of the men of old. They give some scripture to back up their theory saying that there is no mention of rain before the flood among other things. Their theory is that this enormous ice canopy melted, raining down on mankind, flooding the earth and opening us up to the UV rays of the sun and shortening our lifespans.