Let's Talk About Hell

[Timothew]

So how are those without life burning alive forever?

 

[Optimax]

So how are those without life burning alive forever?

Prov 13:15
Good understanding giveth favour: but the way of transgressors is hard .
KJV

 

[Noxot]

Noxot, What is TLDR? The thread or a particular post?
I usually try to keep my posts under 100 words. I'm not sure that my last reply to Der Alter about the meanings of words and the meaning of "and after this the judgment" was under 100.
If it was TLDR, sorry about that. I'm usually brief, but not always.

the TLDR were for my own post, I sometimes put a TLDR at the end of my post to sum up a bit of my thoughts. sorry for the confusion. I am new to using TLDR and I thought that people could choose to TLDR their own post if they feel like summing it up. they do it on other forums that I use. someone tip me off if i am doing it wrong

but have you ever heard that there is a difference between "living" and "existing"?

some times people will use the phrase "he has got no life" to describe someone. now we know he is alive and does have life but those people who said "he has got no life" just used certain words to describe a concept that they have on what constitutes what it means to live life.

and now I propose to you that those who follow Jesus Christ have ~divine life~ but those that do not follow Jesus Christ do not have ~divine life~, however since God created man and they have a soul, they partake of God in that way, i.e. being created by God who is also intelligent and has free will. so even if man does not follow Christ, they still partake of God in certain ways.

but I must say that I have observed that ones beliefs about hell and judgment are based on a whole lot of other things that must also be sorted out.

 

[godisreal36]

Hell is a place i do not want to go
May the Lord Jesus be praised
this all i truly know.
The way of the Lord is Love
So i pray to Jesus and just go with the flow.
I try every day
seeds of love i must sow
Hoping in My Lord Jesus
deeper in love not hell i must go
Hell is real and real Hot
Satan draws his bow
Hell is not real he says
Faith my shield stops the flaming arrow

If i pray to my Lord Jesus
To open my eyes
Hell is real God says
Satan is the the father of Lies
Trust in Me says Lord Jesus
I praise my loving Lord
My praise in pleases
The price He paid i could never afford
I pray save me my lord God
Only one name will not be ignored
Jesus Christ is the name
He alone is my Lord
The father and Son are both the Same
But Jesus is the mighty rain
Falling from heaven
To live is to die but to die is gain
Its all in the Name
Praise my Lord Jesus
Satan again takes aim
I raise my shield of faith in Him
Down comes the rain

 

[Timothew]

Perhaps the main trouble with religion these days is that it is seen as a way to avoid hell, rather than a way to be with God.

We start with the assumption of roasting hell, and think "God, I don't want to go there!"

I'm suggesting that you first look at Jesus Christ. How can I get to where He is? If I follow Him, the result is eternal life. Now I can look at the bible and see what it says about hell. Well, I've looked, and hell is not what the medieval theologians say it is.

 

[Timothew]

Prov 13:15
Good understanding giveth favour: but the way of transgressors is hard .
KJV

Especially hard to live a life without any life.

 

[godisreal36]

It does say that to fear God is the Beginning of wisdom. So to fear Hell is the beginning of wisdom. Doesn't mean im wise, only starting to gain wisdom. I will fear Hell and seek God at the same time. Faith in Jesus by Gods grace sustains me when i fail to be wise or know anything. Aside from that i know nothing sometimes. Not a bad place to be.

 

[Optimax]

Perhaps the main trouble with religion these days is that it is seen as a way to avoid hell, rather than a way to be with God.

We start with the assumption of roasting hell, and think "God, I don't want to go there!"

I'm suggesting that you first look at Jesus Christ. How can I get to where He is? If I follow Him, the result is eternal life. Now I can look at the bible and see what it says about hell. Well, I've looked, and hell is not what the medieval theologians say it is.

The purpose for being a Christian is the same as God's purpose for creating man.

To be with God for eternity.

 

[Studious One]

Perhaps the main trouble with religion these days is that it is seen as a way to avoid hell, rather than a way to be with God.

We start with the assumption of roasting hell, and think "God, I don't want to go there!"

I'm suggesting that you first look at Jesus Christ. How can I get to where He is? If I follow Him, the result is eternal life. Now I can look at the bible and see what it says about hell. Well, I've looked, and hell is not what the medieval theologians say it is.

I've looked, and hell is not what you say it is.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Perhaps the main trouble with religion these days is that it is seen as a way to avoid hell, rather than a way to be with God.

We start with the assumption of roasting hell, and think "God, I don't want to go there!"

I'm suggesting that you first look at Jesus Christ. How can I get to where He is? If I follow Him, the result is eternal life. Now I can look at the bible and see what it says about hell. Well, I've looked, and hell is not what the medieval theologians say it is.

Ephesians 4:8 Thru-which he is saying 'ascending into height he captures/hcmalwteusen <162> (5656) captivity/aicmalwsian <161>
and he gives gifts to the men'.
[Psalm 68:18/Luke 21:24/Reve 13:10]

 

[godisreal36]

What is religion? Islam, Budha, the Bible? this way that way? Not that i reject the bible at all, i love the Bible its Gods Word, just saying that When we read it religion is the result much of the time indstead of God. I Hate religion, makes my head spin, confuses me all the the time, Jesus way seems more simple, I love Jesus way, Jesus is awsome. You're right Sir, We must pray to God always and keep focused on Jesus somehow so we can avoid religion. Im not sure just thinking about Relgion and how it confuses sometimes instead of Seeking God, just as you said. Religion is messy. I guess God is in control and i must fear Hell and seek God through His son Jesus. Humility and trusting God in the hardest times seems to be His way i think. Always Praying that God help us have what he sayswe should have but dont. This is my religion i guess, so i Love my religion. I don't know i just trust in God and go with the flow, praying always for love and trying to be humble. Its hard for me, so faith helps allot.

 

[Timothew]

I've looked, and hell is not what you say it is.

I mean, it isn't this!


The third panel is supposed to be hell.

 

[FredVB]

because that "eternal" that i was talking about is God and we can partake of God, and I called that partaking "forevermore" which is not exactly like the "eternal" that God is.

I think of using "eternal" as I find it being used in the Bible. I do understand the distinction you are making, between what we can hope to have and that which is essential characteristic of the Self-existent. Do you have basis from anything in the Bible for that in your terminology?

 

[FredVB]

The purpose for being a Christian is the same as God's purpose for creating man.

To be with God for eternity.

That was said well, I will agree with this. There is a reality of hell, it does not bode well for non-believers to deny there is hell that they would see, and pursue their life in avoiding God.

 

[Timothew]

That was said well, I will agree with this. There is a reality of hell, it does not bode well for non-believers to deny there is hell that they would see, and pursue their life in avoiding God.

Denying that there is a hell of eternal torture is a different thing than "avoiding God."

I believe in God, the Creator of everything,
I believe in Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son, by whom all things were made,
Who suffered and died on the cross and rose again from death on the third day,
I believe Jesus rose into heaven,
I believe Jesus will return on the last day to judge the living and the dead. (by dead, I mean not-living)
I believe in the Holy Spirit.
I believe that all Christians are part of one church, which has many parts, and there are believers in each denomination, and there are pretenders in each denomination.
I believe that baptism is a sign of our entrance into that church, and a sign of our faith in God who forgives our sins.
I believe the dead will be resurrected
and I believe in the life of the world to come.

I don't believe there is a hell of eternal torture, because the bible does not state that there is. However, the bible does say there is eternal life for believers and not for unbelievers, so I believe that too.

So Fred, I don't care if you think I am a non-believer because I can't make myself believe in a pagan hell.

 

[Studious One]

Denying that there is a hell of eternal torture is a different thing than "avoiding God."

I believe in God, the Creator of everything,
I believe in Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son, by whom all things were made,
Who suffered and died on the cross and rose again from death on the third day,
I believe Jesus rose into heaven,
I believe Jesus will return on the last day to judge the living and the dead. (by dead, I mean not-living)
I believe in the Holy Spirit.
I believe that all Christians are part of one church, which has many parts, and there are believers in each denomination, and there are pretenders in each denomination.
I believe that baptism is a sign of our entrance into that church, and a sign of our faith in God who forgives our sins.
I believe the dead will be resurrected
and I believe in the life of the world to come.

I don't believe there is a hell of eternal torture, because the bible does not state that there is. However, the bible does say there is eternal life for believers and not for unbelievers, so I believe that too.

So Fred, I don't care if you think I am a non-believer because I can't make myself believe in a pagan hell.

The devils also believe in God, but are not saved.

On judgment day, many will stand before God expecting to gain entrance into heaven who will find that they never knew the Lord even though they thought they did.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Christ said in Matthew 25 that the unrighteous shall go into everlasting punishment. He told John on the Isle of Patmos that John was going to see 'things that MUST BE HEREAFTER."

Among the many things John saw was the eternal torments of the unrighteous.

Jesus said these things 'MUST BE HEREAFTER,' meaning they would happen just as He revealed them to John.

Yet you say they won't happen. I'll trust Jesus on this one.

 

[Optimax]

Denying that there is a hell of eternal torture is a different thing than "avoiding God."

I don't believe there is a hell of eternal torture, because the bible does not state that there is. However, the bible does say there is eternal life for believers and not for unbelievers, so I believe that too.

Do you deny that Jesus believed there is a hell but gave an example.

Notice he said there was a "certain" rich man. He is telling what happened to a real person.

Noitce verse 23. The certain rich man Jesus is talking about finds himself in hell.

Wonder if he believed in hell. There are many that deny there is a hell and have a very rude awakening when the die and find themselves there.

Luke 16:19-17:1

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
KJV


Not saying that is where you are going at all, if you say you are saved then I have no reason to doubt it.

Not believing in hell with so much evidence to the contrary is being deceived.

 

[Noxot]

I think of using "eternal" as I find it being used in the Bible. I do understand the distinction you are making, between what we can hope to have and that which is essential characteristic of the Self-existent. Do you have basis from anything in the Bible for that in your terminology?

what part? the part in this quote? if so then I will try to provide examples:

1Tim 1:15 (ESV)
(1:15) The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.

Christ is not a sinner and we are. so I think that is already showing a difference.

Gal 4:8 (ESV)
(4:8) Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods.

God is always Himself and yet we become enslaved to other things that are not even gods.

Rom 12:2 (ESV)
(12:2) Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

we have to go through a process of renewal of our mind... and we have to discern what is the will of God. God does not seem to have to renew His mind or to discern His will. though one day we may be awesome enough to not have to discern, there was a point in which we had to and for God it was not so ( ~I do not change~ as one of the prophets say ).

Eph 1:3 (ESV)
(1:3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,

God is blessed and there was never a time when He is not blessed. but we need the blessings of God.

I thought there is an obvious difference since God is not created and we are. since we can be shaped and God can not be shaped. if I did not answer your question correctly or if I did not understand what you asked... then let me know so that I can try again, because I am not exactly sure on what terminology you want me to explain.

 

[Timothew]

I've read the Parable of Lazarus and Dives. The rule is often quoted that a parable can't use real names. I can't find that rule, can you show me where that rule is written?

Let me tell you two parables, tell me which one represents God.

Little Lois is in her classroom. Lex is sitting behind her poking her with his pencil. This goes on nearly all day, but to Lois it sems like an eternity. Finally Lois turns around and says, "Lex! Why are you torturing me?" Lex replies, "If you will say you love me, I'll stop poking you."

Here's the other,
Lois is at the Empire State Building, looking out the window. The window is open so the breeze can cool the room. Clark tells Lois, "be careful, so you don't fall out of the window." Lois ignores Clark and leans further out of the window. Unfortunately, Lois falls out of the window. Clark Kent, being Superman, flys out to rescue her. Lois asks Clark, "why did you rescue me after I ignored you?" Clark says, "I rescued you because I love you."

Who is God more like? Lex Luthor or Clark Kent?

 

[godisreal36]

Timothew. I love that Name. Good one.