Let's Talk About Hell

[LutheranMafia]

Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power.

Revelation 14:9-11
And another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, 'If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.'

Daniel 12:1-2
Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

 

[Timothew]

Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power.

Revelation 14:9-11
And another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, 'If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.'

Daniel 12:1-2
Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

Don't forget Luke 16:19-31 The Rich Man and Lazarus

 

[CatholicForSure]

Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Sounds pretty eternal to me.

 

[Timothew]

The wages of sin is Death

Sounds pretty eternal to me.

I agree

 

[Studious One]

A thousand years after the resurrection of the righteous dead, the wicked dead will be resurrected.

Now, after a thousand years, (more years for those who died prior to the righteous being resurrected) most of the bodies in the grave will have turned to dust. (For dust thou art and to dust thou shalt return)

Now, since it appears that the bodies of the wicked dead have become dust prior to their resurrection, it would make no sense for them to be resurrected only to be annihilated.

John, while on the Isle of Patmos, saw that the unrighteous would be resurrected, judged, and cast into the lake of fire. He also saw that they would suffer eternal torment in the lake of fire. Jesus told him that 'these things must be hereafter.'

Jesus said the eternal torment of the wicked 'must be hereafter.' It has to come to pass just as John saw it or the Lord Jesus Christ becomes a liar, for He said these things 'must be hereafter.'

The doctrine of annihilation is a false doctrine and is not supported by Scripture at all.

 

[Der Alte]

[ . . . ]1 Corinthians 3:17

If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

Destroy, not torture alive forever.

Galations 6:8

For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption (phthoran), but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

phthoran: From phtheiro; decay, i.e. Ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively) -- corruption, destroy, perish.

The one who sows to his own flesh reaps destruction, not eternal living torment.

2 Thessalonians 1:9

These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Destruction, not eternal living torment. The greek word is olethron: destruction.
From a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruin, i.e. Death, punishment -- destruction.

Hebrews 10:26-27,

For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES

Here it says the fire consumes the adversaries. They are burned up, not eternally alive and burning, but consumed.

Hebrews 10:39

But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

James 1:15b

and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

Death, not eternal torture.

James 4:12a

There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy;

Destroy, not eternally torture.

2 Peter 2:1

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

Destruction, not eternal torment.

2 Peter 3:7-9

But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Peter tells what will happent to ungodly men, they will be judged and then destroyed. All ungodly men will perish unless they repent.

1 John 5:12

He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

How can those without life be living forever in a lake of fire?

Jude 5

Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.

Jude 10

But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed. [ . . . ]

Note the large number of meanings of the word translated "destruction," , physical death, lose reward, things worked for, lose one's life, lose oneself, disaster at sea, die by sword, by hunger, killed by snakes, be lost, or ruined, burst wine skins, transitory beauty of gold, passing splendor, spoiled food and honey, lose member or organ of body, straying sheep, lost son, etc!

ἀπόλλυμι for its conj. s. Bl-D. §101 ( s.v. o[llumi ); Rob. 317; fut. ajpolevsw Hs 8, 7, 5, Att. ajpolw` 1 Cor 1:19 (Is 29:14 ); 1 aor. ajpwvlesa ; 1 pf. ajpolwvleka ; fut. mid. ajpolou`mai Lk 13:3 ; 2 aor. ajpwlovmhn ; the 2 pf. ajpovlwla serves as a pf. mid ., ptc. ajpolwlwv" ( Hom. +; inscr. , pap. , LXX , En. , Philo , Joseph. , Test. 12 Patr. ).

1. act .— a. ruin, destroy.
a. of pers. (Sir 10:3 ) Mk 1:24 ; Lk 4:34 . W. ref. to eternal destruction mh; ejkei`non ajpovllue do not bring about his ruin Ro 14:15 . Esp. kill, put to death (Gen 20:4 ; Esth 9:6 v.l .; 1 Macc 2:37 ; Jos. , C. Ap. 1, 122) Hs 9, 26, 7. paidivon Mt 2:13 ; Jesus 12:14 ; 27:20 ; Mk 3:6 ; 11:18 ; Lk 19:47 ; B 12:5; the wicked tenants kakou;" kakw`" aj. ( s. kakov" 1a) he will put the evildoers to a miserable death Mt 21:41 . tou;" gewrgouv" Mk 12:9 ; Lk 20:16 ; t. fonei`" Mt 22:7 ; t. mh; pisteuvsanta" those who did not believe Jd 5 ; pavnta" Lk 17:27 , 29 . W. sw`sai (1ike Charito 2, 8, 1) Js 4:12 ; Hs 9, 23, 4. Of eternal death ( Herm. Wr. 4, 7) yuch;n k. sw`ma aj. ejn geevnnh/ Mt 10:28 ; yuchvn B 20:1; t. yucav" Hs 9, 26, 3 ( cf. Sir 20:22 ).
b. w. impers. obj. aj. t. sofivan t. sofw`n destroy the wisdom of the wise 1 Cor 1:19 (Is 29:14 ). aj. t. diavnoian destroy the understanding Hm 11:1.— g. without obj. J 10:10 .
b. lose ( X. , Pla. +; PPetr. III 51, 5; POxy. 743, 23; PFay. 111, 3 ff ; Sir 6:3 ; 9:6 ; 27:16 et al .; Tob 7:6 BA; 4 Macc 2:14 ) t. misqovn lose the reward Mt 10:42 ; Mk 9:41 ; Hs 5, 6, 7. dracmhvn ( Dio Chrys. 70[20], 25) Lk 15:8 f ; aj. a} hjrgasavmeqa lose what we have worked for 2J 8 . diaqhvkhn B 4:6, 8. th;n zwh;n t. ajnqrwvpwn Hm 2:1; cf. s 8, 6, 6; 8, 7, 5; 8, 8, 2 f and 5. th;n ejlpivda m 5, 1, 7.— W . colloqu. flavor i{na pa`n o} devdwkevn moi mhv ajpolevsw ejx aujtou` that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me J 6:39 ( Bl-D. §466, 3; Rob. 437; 753).— aj. th;n yuchvn ( cf. Sir 20:22 ) lose one’s life Mt 10:39 ; 16:25 ; Mk 8:35 ; Lk 9:24 ; 17:33 ; cf. J 12:25 . For this aj. eJautovn lose oneself Lk 9:25 (similar in form is Tyrtaeus Lyr. [VII BC ], fgm. 8 Diehl 2 lines 12 ff : ‘The man who risks his life in battle has the best chance of saving it; the one who flees to save it is most likely to lose it’).

2. mid .— a. be destroyed, ruined.
a.of pers. perish, die ( schol. on Nicander , Ther. 188 ajpovllutai oJ ajnhvr =the man dies) 1 Cl 51:5; 55:6; B 5:4, 12; D 16:5; Hs 6, 2, 1 f. As a cry of anguish ajpolluvmeqa we are perishing! ( PPetr. II 4, 4 nuni; de; ajpolluvmeqa ) Mt 8:25 ; Mk 4:38 ; Lk 8:24 ( Arrian , Peripl. 3, 3 of disaster that the stormy sea brings to the seafarer). ejn macaivrh/ aj. die by the sword Mt 26:52 . limw`/ of hunger (Ezk 34:29 ) Lk 15:17 . th`/ ajntilogiva/ tou` Kovre Jd 11 c (because of 11a and b it should perh. = be corrupted; cf. Polyb. 32, 23, 6). uJpo; tino" ( Hdt. 5. 126; Dio Chrys. 13[7], 12) uJpo; t. of men killed by the snakes 1 Cor 10:9 ; cf. vs. 1 0. Abs. of a people perish J 11:50 . Of individuals (Lev 23:30 ) Ac 5:37 ; 2 Pt 3:9 ; 1 Cl 12:6; 39:5 (Job 4:20 ).—Esp. of eternal death ( cf. Ps 9:6 f ; 36:20; 67:3 ; 91:10 ; Is 41:11 ) J 3:16 ; 17:12 . ajpolevsqai eij" to;n aijw`na perish forever 10:28 (Bar 3:3 hJmei`" ajpolluvmenoi to;n aijw`na). ajnovmw" aj. Ro 2:12 ; mwrw`" aj. IEph 17:2; ejn kauchvsei because of boasting ITr 4:1; cf. IPol 5:2. Abs. 1 Cor 8:11 ; 15:18 ; 2 Cl 17:1.— oiJ ajpolluvmenoi ( opp. oiJ sw/zovmenoi , like Plut. , Mor. 469 D ) those who are lost 1 Cor 1:18 ; 2 Cor 2:15 ; 4:3 ; 2 Th 2:10 ; 2 Cl 1:4; 2:5. For this to; ajpolwlov" Lk 19:10 (Mt 18:11 —Ezk 34:4 , 16 ). ta; ajpolluvmena 2 Cl 2:7 ( cf. Dit., Syll. 3 417, 9 ta; te ajpolwlovta ejk t. iJerou` ajnevswsan ). b. of things be lost, pass away, be ruined ( Jos. , Bell. 2, 650 of Jerusalem) of bursting wineskins Mk 9:17 ; Mk 2:22 ; Lk 5:37 ; fading beauty Js 1:11 ; transitory beauty of gold 1 Pt 1:7 ; passing splendor Rv 18:14 ( w. ajpov as Jer 10:11 ; Da 7:17 ). Of earthly food J 6:27 ; spoiled honey Hm 5, 1, 5. Of the heavens which, like the earth, will pass away Hb 1:11 (Ps 101:27 ). Of the end of the world Hv 4, 3, 3, Of the way of the godless, which is lost in darkness B 11:7 (Ps 1:6 ).
b. be lost (Antipho 54 Diels, Vorsokrat. ajpolovmenon ajrguvrion ; X. , Symp. 1, 5; 1 Km 9:3 ) ISm 10:1. Of falling hair Lk 21:18 ; Ac 27:34 ; a member or organ of the body Mt 5:29 f ; remnants of food J 6:12 . Of wine that has lost its flavor Hm 12, 5, 3.—Of sheep gone astray Mt 10:6 ; 15:24 ; Lk 15:4 , 6 ; B 5:12 ( cf. Jer 27:6 ; Ezk 34:4 ; Ps 118:176 ). Of a lost son Lk 15:24 ( Artem. 4, 33 hJ gunhv. . . t. uiJo;n ajpwvlese kai. . . eu|ren aujtovn .—JSchniewind, D. Gleichn. vom verl. Sohn ’40). aj. qew`/ be lost to God Hs 8, 6, 4. M-M. B. 758; 766.

A Greek-English Lexicon Gingrich & Danker​

 

[CatholicForSure]

The wages of sin is Death

Again, you are misinterpreting the Scipture.

 

[Timothew]

Again, you are misinterpreting the Scipture.

I'm sure. Teach me brother! Show me how to interpret Scipture.

 

[Timothew]

Note the large number of meanings of the word translated "destruction," , physical death, lose reward, things worked for, lose one's life, lose oneself, disaster at sea, die by sword, by hunger, killed by snakes, be lost, or ruined, burst wine skins, transitory beauty of gold, passing splendor, spoiled food and honey, lose member or organ of body, straying sheep, lost son, etc!

ἀπόλλυμι for its conj. s. Bl-D. §101 ( s.v. o[llumi ); Rob. 317; fut. ajpolevsw Hs 8, 7, 5, Att. ajpolw` 1 Cor 1:19 (Is 29:14 ); 1 aor. ajpwvlesa ; 1 pf. ajpolwvleka ; fut. mid. ajpolou`mai Lk 13:3 ; 2 aor. ajpwlovmhn ; the 2 pf. ajpovlwla serves as a pf. mid ., ptc. ajpolwlwv" ( Hom. +; inscr. , pap. , LXX , En. , Philo , Joseph. , Test. 12 Patr. ).
​

1. act .— a. ruin, destroy.
a. of pers. (Sir 10:3 ) Mk 1:24 ; Lk 4:34 . W. ref. to eternal destruction mh; ejkei`non ajpovllue do not bring about his ruin Ro 14:15 . Esp. kill, put to death (Gen 20:4 ; Esth 9:6 v.l .; 1 Macc 2:37 ; Jos. , C. Ap. 1, 122) Hs 9, 26, 7. paidivon Mt 2:13 ; Jesus 12:14 ; 27:20 ; Mk 3:6 ; 11:18 ; Lk 19:47 ; B 12:5; the wicked tenants kakou;" kakw`" aj. ( s. kakov" 1a) he will put the evildoers to a miserable death Mt 21:41 . tou;" gewrgouv" Mk 12:9 ; Lk 20:16 ; t. fonei`" Mt 22:7 ; t. mh; pisteuvsanta" those who did not believe Jd 5 ; pavnta" Lk 17:27 , 29 . W. sw`sai (1ike Charito 2, 8, 1) Js 4:12 ; Hs 9, 23, 4. Of eternal death ( Herm. Wr. 4, 7) yuch;n k. sw`ma aj. ejn geevnnh/ Mt 10:28 ; yuchvn B 20:1; t. yucav" Hs 9, 26, 3 ( cf. Sir 20:22 ).
b. w. impers. obj. aj. t. sofivan t. sofw`n destroy the wisdom of the wise 1 Cor 1:19 (Is 29:14 ). aj. t. diavnoian destroy the understanding Hm 11:1.— g. without obj. J 10:10 .
b. lose ( X. , Pla. +; PPetr. III 51, 5; POxy. 743, 23; PFay. 111, 3 ff ; Sir 6:3 ; 9:6 ; 27:16 et al .; Tob 7:6 BA; 4 Macc 2:14 ) t. misqovn lose the reward Mt 10:42 ; Mk 9:41 ; Hs 5, 6, 7. dracmhvn ( Dio Chrys. 70[20], 25) Lk 15:8 f ; aj. a} hjrgasavmeqa lose what we have worked for 2J 8 . diaqhvkhn B 4:6, 8. th;n zwh;n t. ajnqrwvpwn Hm 2:1; cf. s 8, 6, 6; 8, 7, 5; 8, 8, 2 f and 5. th;n ejlpivda m 5, 1, 7.— W . colloqu. flavor i{na pa`n o} devdwkevn moi mhv ajpolevsw ejx aujtou` that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me J 6:39 ( Bl-D. §466, 3; Rob. 437; 753).— aj. th;n yuchvn ( cf. Sir 20:22 ) lose one’s life Mt 10:39 ; 16:25 ; Mk 8:35 ; Lk 9:24 ; 17:33 ; cf. J 12:25 . For this aj. eJautovn lose oneself Lk 9:25 (similar in form is Tyrtaeus Lyr. [VII BC ], fgm. 8 Diehl 2 lines 12 ff : ‘The man who risks his life in battle has the best chance of saving it; the one who flees to save it is most likely to lose it’).

2. mid .— a. be destroyed, ruined.
a.of pers. perish, die ( schol. on Nicander , Ther. 188 ajpovllutai oJ ajnhvr =the man dies) 1 Cl 51:5; 55:6; B 5:4, 12; D 16:5; Hs 6, 2, 1 f. As a cry of anguish ajpolluvmeqa we are perishing! ( PPetr. II 4, 4 nuni; de; ajpolluvmeqa ) Mt 8:25 ; Mk 4:38 ; Lk 8:24 ( Arrian , Peripl. 3, 3 of disaster that the stormy sea brings to the seafarer). ejn macaivrh/ aj. die by the sword Mt 26:52 . limw`/ of hunger (Ezk 34:29 ) Lk 15:17 . th`/ ajntilogiva/ tou` Kovre Jd 11 c (because of 11a and b it should perh. = be corrupted; cf. Polyb. 32, 23, 6). uJpo; tino" ( Hdt. 5. 126; Dio Chrys. 13[7], 12) uJpo; t. of men killed by the snakes 1 Cor 10:9 ; cf. vs. 1 0. Abs. of a people perish J 11:50 . Of individuals (Lev 23:30 ) Ac 5:37 ; 2 Pt 3:9 ; 1 Cl 12:6; 39:5 (Job 4:20 ).—Esp. of eternal death ( cf. Ps 9:6 f ; 36:20; 67:3 ; 91:10 ; Is 41:11 ) J 3:16 ; 17:12 . ajpolevsqai eij" to;n aijw`na perish forever 10:28 (Bar 3:3 hJmei`" ajpolluvmenoi to;n aijw`na). ajnovmw" aj. Ro 2:12 ; mwrw`" aj. IEph 17:2; ejn kauchvsei because of boasting ITr 4:1; cf. IPol 5:2. Abs. 1 Cor 8:11 ; 15:18 ; 2 Cl 17:1.— oiJ ajpolluvmenoi ( opp. oiJ sw/zovmenoi , like Plut. , Mor. 469 D ) those who are lost 1 Cor 1:18 ; 2 Cor 2:15 ; 4:3 ; 2 Th 2:10 ; 2 Cl 1:4; 2:5. For this to; ajpolwlov" Lk 19:10 (Mt 18:11 —Ezk 34:4 , 16 ). ta; ajpolluvmena 2 Cl 2:7 ( cf. Dit., Syll. 3 417, 9 ta; te ajpolwlovta ejk t. iJerou` ajnevswsan ). b. of things be lost, pass away, be ruined ( Jos. , Bell. 2, 650 of Jerusalem) of bursting wineskins Mk 9:17 ; Mk 2:22 ; Lk 5:37 ; fading beauty Js 1:11 ; transitory beauty of gold 1 Pt 1:7 ; passing splendor Rv 18:14 ( w. ajpov as Jer 10:11 ; Da 7:17 ). Of earthly food J 6:27 ; spoiled honey Hm 5, 1, 5. Of the heavens which, like the earth, will pass away Hb 1:11 (Ps 101:27 ). Of the end of the world Hv 4, 3, 3, Of the way of the godless, which is lost in darkness B 11:7 (Ps 1:6 ).
b. be lost (Antipho 54 Diels, Vorsokrat. ajpolovmenon ajrguvrion ; X. , Symp. 1, 5; 1 Km 9:3 ) ISm 10:1. Of falling hair Lk 21:18 ; Ac 27:34 ; a member or organ of the body Mt 5:29 f ; remnants of food J 6:12 . Of wine that has lost its flavor Hm 12, 5, 3.—Of sheep gone astray Mt 10:6 ; 15:24 ; Lk 15:4 , 6 ; B 5:12 ( cf. Jer 27:6 ; Ezk 34:4 ; Ps 118:176 ). Of a lost son Lk 15:24 ( Artem. 4, 33 hJ gunhv. . . t. uiJo;n ajpwvlese kai. . . eu|ren aujtovn .—JSchniewind, D. Gleichn. vom verl. Sohn ’40). aj. qew`/ be lost to God Hs 8, 6, 4. M-M. B. 758; 766.

A Greek-English Lexicon Gingrich & Danker
​

This is good, thanks Der Alter.
Can you highlight in the definition where it says apollumi means torment, torture, or being roasted in flames? My old eyes just can't see it.

Editted to Add:
I'm reading in Luke, would you translate this for me?
οἱ δὲ ἀρχιερεῖς καὶ οἱ γραμματεῖς ἐζήτουν αὐτὸν ἀπολέσαι καὶ οἱ πρῶτοι τοῦ λαοῦ,
Were the chief priests and the scribes and the first in the temple seeking to lose Jesus?

 

[CatholicForSure]

Again, you are misinterpreting the Scipture.

I'm sure. Teach me brother! Show me how to interpret Scipture.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - Sacred Scripture



112 1. Be especially attentive "to the content and unity of the whole Scripture". Different as the books which compose it may be, Scripture is a unity by reason of the unity of God's plan, of which Christ Jesus is the center and heart, open since his Passover.79

The phrase "heart of Christ" can refer to Sacred Scripture, which makes known his heart, closed before the Passion, as the Scripture was obscure. But the Scripture has been opened since the Passion; since those who from then on have understood it, consider and discern in what way the prophecies must be interpreted.80
​

113 2. Read the Scripture within "the living Tradition of the whole Church". According to a saying of the Fathers, Sacred Scripture is written principally in the Church's heart rather than in documents and records, for the Church carries in her Tradition the living memorial of God's Word, and it is the Holy Spirit who gives her the spiritual interpretation of the Scripture (". . . according to the spiritual meaning which the Spirit grants to the Church"81).

114 3. Be attentive to the analogy of faith.82 By "analogy of faith" we mean the coherence of the truths of faith among themselves and within the whole plan of Revelation.

The senses of Scripture

115 According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.


116 The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: "All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal."83

117 The spiritual sense. Thanks to the unity of God's plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.


1. The allegorical sense. We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ's victory and also of Christian Baptism.84

2. The moral sense. The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written "for our instruction".85

3. The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge, "leading"). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.86

118 A medieval couplet summarizes the significance of the four senses:

The Letter speaks of deeds; Allegory to faith;
The Moral how to act; Anagogy our destiny.87
​

79 Cf. Lk 24:25-27,44-46.
80 St. Thomas Aquinas, Expos. in Ps. 21,11; cf. Ps 22:14.
81 Origen, Hom. in Lev. 5,5: PG 12,454D.
82 Cf. Rom 12:6.
83 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh I, 1, 10, ad I.
84 Cf. 1 Cor 10:2.
85 1 Cor 10:11; cf. Heb 3:1-4:11.
86 Cf. Rev 21:1-22:5.
87 Lettera gesta docet, quid credas allegoria, moralis quid agas, quo tendas anagogia; Augustine of Dacia, Rotulus pugillaris, I: ed. A. Walz: Angelicum 6 (1929) 256.

 

[Jeebusxoxo]

I have something to say and im pretty sure as bad as it might sound the more likely its true.
lets cut through woods and face our facts.
we all do bad things and we not all follow what Jesus have Taught us. so here it is.

If You live a life follwoing all that Bible and Jeesus have tought us you going to go to heaven and you will be a looonely man/woman.

If You go to Hell you gonna meet all your best friends.

Enuff said. you can surely understand the moral of what i have said.

 

[Timothew]

I have something to say and im pretty sure as bad as it might sound the more likely its true.

If You go to Hell you gonna meet all your best friends.

This is simply not true.

 

[LutheranMafia]

I don't think it is entirely good going to Heaven and bad people going to Hell, I think that good people can go to Hell too. In the Old Testament it does not talk about bad people going to Sheol, it talks about people who are slain by the sword as going to Hell. Ezekiel 31:17 Ezekiel 32:21

Here it says it is better to be slain by the sword than to die of hunger.
Lamentations 4:9
In Danté's Inferno, a man is bound as a dead bush in Hell because he had to watch all his children die of hunger before he finally died. Ezekiel 31:18 refers to the trees of Eden as being bound in the unpleasent parts of Sheol (if the idea of being a bush in Hell seems odd). There is no indication that he, or the people slain by the sword and going to the unpleasant parts of Sheol in so many OT verses, did anything wrong.

On the other hand in Rev 12:9 it says that Satan is in Heaven until the end times. If Satan is in Heaven then probably he is not the only evil one that has gone to Heaven.

 

[Noxot]

I have something to say and im pretty sure as bad as it might sound the more likely its true.
lets cut through woods and face our facts.
we all do bad things and we not all follow what Jesus have Taught us. so here it is.

If You live a life follwoing all that Bible and Jeesus have tought us you going to go to heaven and you will be a looonely man/woman.

If You go to Hell you gonna meet all your best friends.

Enuff said. you can surely understand the moral of what i have said.

TBH there will be plenty of people in heaven. it is by grace that we are saved, God forbid that we act self-righteous! Divine love is a much higher thing than friendship with another created being. friendship with God is the best friendship you can have. but one day I hope that you see God for what and who he really is.

 

[christianmomof3]

Ezekiel 31:17 Ezekiel 32:21
Lamentations 4:9
In Danté's Inferno, a man is bound as a dead bush in Hell because he had to watch all his children die of hunger before he finally died. Ezekiel 31:18 refers to the trees of Eden as being bound in the unpleasent parts of Sheol (if the idea of being a bush in Hell seems odd).
On the other hand in Rev 12:9 it says .

Interesting that you quote Dante's inferno along with the Bible.

 

[LutheranMafia]

Interesting that you quote Dante's inferno along with the Bible.

It stuck in my mind as unfair and inexplicable when I read it, going to Hell simply because of starving to death, and becoming a bush in a nightmarish reality, but when I read the verses in Lamentations about death by hunger and in Ezekiel about the trees of Eden in Sheol, it all came together for me. I think that Danté really experienced something of Heaven and Hell.

 

[Der Alte]

This is good, thanks Der Alter.
Can you highlight in the definition where it says apollumi means torment, torture, or being roasted in flames? My old eyes just can't see it.

Editted to Add:
I'm reading in Luke, would you translate this for me?
οἱ δὲ ἀρχιερεῖς καὶ οἱ γραμματεῖς ἐζήτουν αὐτὸν ἀπολέσαι καὶ οἱ πρῶτοι τοῦ λαοῦ,
Were the chief priests and the scribes and the first in the temple seeking to lose Jesus?

My post went right over your head, didn't it? The word in question ἀπόλλυμι has a wide range of meaning, many of which does NOT mean to totally destroy, annihilate, etc. as you implied! The fact that the word apollumi in and of itself does not mean eternal punishment is totally irrelevant. There are many words in scripture that do not have that meaning.

When Jesus said,

• "You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.", Matt 5:22
• "thy whole body should be cast into hell," Matt 5:29,
• "And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." Matt 13:49,
• "cast into everlasting fire," Matt 18:8,
• "Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth," Matt 22:2
• "twofold more the child of hell than yourselves," Matt 23:13
• "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire," Matt 25:41, 46
• "go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" Mar 9:43 - 48, (3X)
• "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth," Luk 13;28,
• "in hell [ . . . ] tormented in this flame . . . place of torment." Luke 16:19-31
• "cast them into the fire, and they are burned," John 15:6

the Jews understood him to be talking about Gehenna/Hades a place prepared by God for the eternal, unending punishment of the unrighteous!

Did the chief priests and the scribes have the ability to wipe Jesus completely out of existence as if he had never lived?

 

[christianmomof3]

It stuck in my mind as unfair and inexplicable when I read it, going to Hell simply because of starving to death, and becoming a bush in a nightmarish reality, but when I read the verses in Lamentations about death by hunger and in Ezekiel about the trees of Eden in Sheol, it all came together for me. I think that Danté really experienced something of Heaven and Hell.

I think he was very creative and his writings have greatly influenced Christian thought.

 

[LutheranMafia]

I don't see that he has had that much influence, since the popular ideal is that only bad people go to Hell.

As to experiencing the afterlife while still alive, I've heard of other people who had the love of their life die and then had experiences of their loved one's travels in the afterlife, even while they were still living. Even my own conservative Lutheran grandmother visually saw my grandfather appear in front of her after he had passed away.

 

[Timothew]

My post went right over your head, didn't it? The word in question ἀπόλλυμι has a wide range of meaning, many of which does NOT mean to totally destroy, annihilate, etc. as you implied! The fact that the word apollumi in and of itself does not mean eternal punishment is totally irrelevant. There are many words in scripture that do not have that meaning.


When Jesus said,

• "You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.", Matt 5:22
• "thy whole body should be cast into hell," Matt 5:29,
• "And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." Matt 13:49,
• "cast into everlasting fire," Matt 18:8,
• "Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth," Matt 22:2
• "twofold more the child of hell than yourselves," Matt 23:13
• "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire," Matt 25:41, 46
• "go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" Mar 9:43 - 48, (3X)
• "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth," Luk 13;28,
• "in hell [ . . . ] tormented in this flame . . . place of torment." Luke 16:19-31
• "cast them into the fire, and they are burned," John 15:6

the Jews understood him to be talking about Gehenna/Hades a place prepared by God for the eternal, unending punishment of the unrighteous!

Did the chief priests and the scribes have the ability to wipe Jesus completely out of existence as if he had never lived?

I'm confused by your answer, I never implied that apollumi didn't mean eternal torture, just that it didn't mean torture. I am also not saying apollumi means "wiped completely out of existence as if he had never lived." The chief priests wanted to kill Jesus. That is the meaning of apolesai/apollumi.

the Jews understood him to be talking about Gehenna/Hades a place prepared by God for the eternal, unending punishment of the unrighteous!

This is your view of it. I'm saying that when Jesus said Gehenna, the Jews knew just what he was saying, The Valley of Hinnom, the place of death.
Hades as well; the Jews would have understood Hades to be Sheol, the place of the dead. Not Hades as the greeks thought of it, a shadow realm of ghosts.