Let's say hypothetically, evolution is wrong...

[juvenissun]

Does that instantly make creationism the only valid theory?

If you think so, why?

OK, I will try again.

Yes, it does. Because there is no other choice. If you don't think so, then give me an example which shows the third choice.

Whatever idea you give (there are a few), you will still have the origin problem. There are only two ultimate choices for the solution: evolved, or created. It is not limited to life, it is a valid argument to everything.

 

[Ar Cosc]

Even if evolution is not true, and even if creationism is the only alternative, there are hundreds of equally valid creation myths. And before diabolical mimicry is brought up, how do you know which stories are diabolical mimicry? Why would your bible be the only one that is not made up? What are the chances?

 

[TheReasoner]

OK, I will try again.

Yes, it does. Because there is no other choice. If you don't think so, then give me an example which shows the third choice.

Whatever idea you give (there are a few), you will still have the origin problem. There are only two ultimate choices for the solution: evolved, or created. It is not limited to life, it is a valid argument to everything.

That's not true juvenissun. Evolved does not exclude creation. We can't test it (whether some intelligent being or God created life or the universe), but it's not something we can exclude. Goodness gracious, we use evolution as a tool for biologically derived products and as a method to design many other products as well. So if we use it, why do you insist God cannot? Isn't that making God less than us? Impossible, right? God's greater, So if we can use evolution to make stuff He can do so at both a greater scale and in a greater scope. Right?

As for creationism having any validity as a scientific theory the absence of evolution will not validate it or give it credence. It is not testable. We don't have to have a theory juvenissun. If we don't have a testable model we don't have a viable theory. Creationism isn't a theory by it's very nature. By what it is. Even in the absence of any other explanation it would not be a valid theory unless you could formulate it as a testable hypothesis and then thoroughly test it. If you could do that and found that it was supported by your [as objective and falsifiable as possible] tests... THen it would be a valid theory.

But, as I said, evolution does not exclude a God nor a creator. At all.

 

[Greg1234]

Even if evolution is not true, and even if creationism is the only alternative, there are hundreds of equally valid creation myths.

Your problem isn't a universal problem.

 

[Supreme]

Nope. If the entire scientific community dismissed evolution tomorrow, none of them would be jumping on the creationism train. It isn't a scientifically coherent theory. It really is as simple as that.

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

Yes, it does. Because there is no other choice. If you don't think so, then give me an example which shows the third choice.

Aliens put us here.

There you go there is another choice.

 

[Jro]

Aliens put us here.

There you go there is another choice.

Were they friendly aliens? Or mean aliens? This is important.

 

[TheReasoner]

Were they friendly aliens? Or mean aliens? This is important.

Indifferent ones taking a leak...

"Daddy, daddy, I've got to pee!"
"Okay sonny, I'll pull over at the next solar system"

 

[Jro]

Indifferent ones taking a leak...

"Daddy, daddy, I've got to pee!"
"Okay sonny, I'll pull over at the next solar system"

So they must prefer to pee in Earth-like planets, or there must be a lot of road-tripping aliens, because it's very fortunate that they chose Earth.

 

[TheReasoner]

So they must prefer to pee in Earth-like planets, or there must be a lot of road-tripping aliens, because it's very fortunate that they chose Earth.

Sure. There are a bunch. Why do you think so many stop by earth to implant random stuff in random people? They're keeping track of their sewage

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

Were they friendly aliens? Or mean aliens? This is important.

Heck I don't know. I'm just saying it is another choice. A ridiculous one but no less ridiculous than YEC.

If it was aliens I hope they aren't those same ones that have an obsession with cows that buzz around playing with American hillbillies.

 

[TheReasoner]

Heck I don't know. I'm just saying it is another choice. A ridiculous one but no less ridiculous than YEC.

If it was aliens I hope they aren't those same ones that have an obsession with cows that buzz around playing with American hillbillies.

Well, makes sense, doesn't it? Cow tipping is cool for some humans, and picking fun at weird loners is also a passtime of some youth.

So what am I saying? That a bunch of alien teenagers out to get some fun doing a little high-tech cow tipping and poking fun at random weird people?

Yep.

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

Well, makes sense, doesn't it? Cow tipping is cool for some humans, and picking fun at weird loners is also a passtime of some youth.

So what am I saying? That a bunch of alien teenagers out to get some fun doing a little high-tech cow tipping and poking fun at random weird people?

Yep.

I think you're onto something that these conspiracy theorist nutjobs haven't figured out yet! Those are just alien teenagers having a laugh. I know I would find it hilarious to mess with hillbillies. Tip their cows and draw meaningless symbols in their corn fields. If even I with my feeble intellect and inability to travel vast interstellar distances would find it hilarious imagine how much fun it must be for those smartypants aliens!

 

[AV1611VET]

You must love that.

Yes I do, actually.

That Apple Challenge came to me one night, after I prayed and asked God for something I could challenge you guys with that would open your eyes to the fact that creatio ex nihilo does not generate evidence.

 

[AV1611VET]

Really AV... you're still lying about this?

It has been demonstrated to you already that what was said is that it was doubtful that it would overthrow the theory of evolution instantly. Not that it would definitely not refute evolution.

How do you justify this dishonesty? Is it OK to lie as long as you're lying for Jesus? I don't remember the bible mentioning that.

And you know exactly where I stand on that, don't you?

Wikipedia says it would overthrow -- and Wikipedia says it would not necessarily overthrow it.

This means it would not be overthrown, as it would be tied up in peer review forever; with one exception:

The Rapture will occur, and the Antichrist will come on the scene and convincingly settle the peer review once and for all; demonstrating not only how evolution works, but linking it to abiogenesis.

You can keep asking me if I'm 'lying for Jesus' and how do I 'justify this dishonesty' -- but I have a right to believe what I believe, and your ridicule isn't going to deter me.

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

And you know exactly where I stand on that, don't you?

On lying? No I don't because I thought you were supposed to be against dishonesty but here you are lying.

Wikipedia says it would overthrow -- and Wikipedia says it would not necessarily overthrow it.

FINALLY! Thank goodness we sorted that out.

 

[AV1611VET]

FINALLY! Thank goodness we sorted that out.

As Chuck Swindoll is fond of saying: "If there's a mist in the pulpit, there will be a fog in the congregation."

Rabbits in the preCambrian would tie scientists up in peer review for years and years -- since they can't agree on whether or not it would falsify the theory of evolution.

So, back to my original point: Since nothing specific falsifies the theory of evolution, it's not scientific -- in my opinion.

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

As Chuck Swindoll is fond of saying: "If there's a mist in the pulpit, there will be a fog in the congregation."

Rabbits in the preCambrian would tie scientists up in peer review for years and years -- since they can't agree on whether or not it would falsify the theory of evolution.

So, back to my original point: Since nothing specific falsifies the theory of evolution, it's not scientific -- in my opinion.

Well either the theory would be reworked to account for the rabbit or the entire thing would be thrown out. Eventually it would be sorted one way or the other though and wouldn't be tied up forever. If that was how the scientific community worked we would never discover anything.

I'm just thankful you have stopped lying.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well either the theory would be reworked to account for the rabbit or the entire thing would be thrown out.

In the meantime, the Rapture would occur, and the Antichrist will come on the scene and settle the matter quite convincingly.

Eventually it would be sorted one way or the other though and wouldn't be tied up forever.

You got that right.

If that was how the scientific community worked we would never discover anything.

I wasn't aware the scientific community 'works' when it comes to God.

I'm just thankful you have stopped lying.

Give me time -- I'll be back at it --

 

[TheReasoner]

Yes I do, actually.

That Apple Challenge came to me one night, after I prayed and asked God for something I could challenge you guys with that would open your eyes to the fact that creatio ex nihilo does not generate evidence.

But why, AV, would it create evidence contradicting itself?
Is God trying to fool us?

I'm thinking the source might have been your own mind, not God.