Let's get some straight answers from Muslims (part 2)

[peaceful soul]

Let's get some straight answers from Muslims Part 2
​

Not one Muslim has yet to tell me the answers to these questions (bold):

1. Also, why didn't the Qu'ran contain the original Torah and Injeel so the Jews and Christians could return to the Truth of God? Surely God would not let Jews and Christians go for several hundred years without the Truth. That does not reflect well on God's integrity and sovereingnity towards those He gave revelations to.
2. From 3, if the full revelation was not included in the Qu'ran, why aren't the parts of the previous revelations (OT and NT) that were corrupted just be explained in detail much like a book with errors is revised so the reader can know the errors that existed and are now corrected? The Qu'ran does not seem to do this. It basically gives a complete revelation that is similar enough to the former, that it gives an illusion of being a correction. The fact that it mentions things from former does not mean that it actuallys corrects the former.

 

[seed757]

1. The Quran embodies all of the origanl teachings brought forth from the prophets of old who instructed the ones who followed them. As long as you did what the prophet siad, you were OK as it were. It is not the fault of God if people didn't heed the message.

2. This is more of a history course subject, not exactly anything for the guidance of mankind. But, there are several biblical scholars who have written on the subject for many years now. In short, the information is available.

 

[saladin1970]

the quran comes to correct the bible, here are just some examples

How the Quran corrects the bible
whenever we find an idea that seems very strange in the bible, if we look in the Quran it puts that idea into perspective and corrects it. And this happens hundreds of times. Let us go through a few examples.

As we all know God is all powerful, all knowing. Yet the bible describes god as weak and needy.

"By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. And God blessed the sevent day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done" genesis 2:2.,

and again in Exodus 31:17. "In six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the 7th day he rested and was refreshed"

Now what does the Quran have to say.

"And verily we created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them in six periods, and NAUGHT of weariness touched us" Quran 50:38

n Genesis 18:1-18 God eats food.

However God is self sufficent, and beyond needing or wanting anything of the things that sustain a human to live, such as food.

So what does the Quran have to say.
"say shall i take for my protectors other than Allah, the maker of the heavens and the earth? And he it is that feedeth but is not fed" Quran 6:14

In Gensis 32:24-30, god is characterised as wrestling with jacob all night long. God wrestling and being weak and powerless?

"And jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of jacob's thigh was out of joint as he wrestled him"

and he said let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said , I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. And he said unto him, What is thy name" and he said Jacob And he said, they name shall be called no more jacob, but Israel, for as a prince hast thou power with god and with men, and hast prevailed"

" and jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, they name. ANd he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask my name? and he blessed him thee. And jacob called the name of the places Peniel: for i have seen god face to face and my life is preserved Genesis 32:24-30"

Now what does the Majestic Quran have to say
"it is he who begins creation;then repeats it anf or him it is most easy. To him belongs the loftiest similitured in the heavens and the earth: for he is exalted in might, full of wisdom" Quran 30:27

God commands Isaiah to go naked for 3 years (Isaiah 20:1-3, Amos 2:16)

what does the Quran say?

"When they do aught that is shameful, they say 'we found our fathers doing so' and Allah commanded us thus, Say 'Nay, Allah NEVER commands what is shameful: do ye say of Allah what ye know not?" Quran 7:28


PS THE LIST GOES ON AND ON AND ON

 

[Osiris]

the quran comes to correct the bible

the bible happened before the quran... is there anything special in someone correcting the opinions about god of someone else by using their own opinions?

whenever we find an idea that seems very strange in the bible, if we look in the Quran it puts that idea into perspective and corrects it.

more like... if we look in the Quran it puts that idea into your/muslim perspective and corrects it.

And this happens hundreds of times. Let us go through a few examples.

because you were raised as a muslim or/and have muslim beliefs, you won't accept any other type of belief that conflicts with yours.

if the bible and the quran conflict... it doesn't necessarily mean that the quran is correcting it, or that bible is infallible.

but the reason you believe the quran corrects the bible in the matters of describing god or whatever... that is because you believe it corrects the bible... to christians, the bible needs no correction and you are just wasting your time in your endevour.

For both you and the christians are arguing on matters of opinion, in reality neither could prove each other wrong because there is no way to emperically prove your opinions to be correct.

 

[jinkazama]

Koran plagarized from Judaism

 

[Kris_J]

"And verily we created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them in six periods, and NAUGHT of weariness touched us" Quran 50:38

Who is "We" & "Us"? Thought you have a non-trinitarian God, or does your Quran have wrong grammar?

 

[Osiris]

Who is "We" & "Us"? Thought you have a non-trinitarian God, or does your Quran have wrong grammar?

could be a grammatical way of how royalty referred to themselves back then... "we, us" -- eventhough it is one person... just like queen elizabeth perhaps.

although , i do find it odd that god would refer to man made terms of the era... would god have used the word 'dude' if it were written now days?

 

[bless_sins]

Also, why didn't the Qu'ran contain the original Torah and Injeel so the Jews and Christians could return to the Truth of God?
​

Because the Quran contained the "Quran". Although God sent revelations to EACH Nation, He didn't send one revelation that could apply to everyone.

The books of the OT were sent speicifcally to the Israelites.

Surely God would not let Jews and Christians go for several hundred years without the Truth. That does not reflect well on God's integrity and sovereingnity towards those He gave revelations to.

Actually, Jesus came and left in 1st century AD. Christians didn't reach the "New World" until 15th Century.

Why did God leave the Native Americans without the Truth?

The answer is: The truth is always there. Look ou the window, the nature you see is the Truth.
Then what's the purpose of the Quran? It is to provde a guide to peoples' lives. It is to strengthen you faith. There are many benefits.

However, Muslims, unlike Christians, belive athat anyone can be a Muslim. As long as they realise the existence of One God, and they do good deeds, they are a Muslim.

However, if someone rejects the Quran (after being shown it) they are cast out of the fold of Islam.

Therefore, only he/she who rejects Islam is a non-muslim.

From 3, if the full revelation was not included in the Qu'ran, why aren't the parts of the previous revelations (OT and NT) that were corrupted just be explained in detail much like a book with errors is revised so the reader can know the errors that existed and are now corrected?

Liek I said, the Quran brought a universal relgion, unlike those that came before it.​

 

[Kris_J]

could be a grammatical way of how royalty referred to themselves back then... "we, us" -- eventhough it is one person... just like queen elizabeth perhaps.

although , i do find it odd that god would refer to man made terms of the era... would god have used the word 'dude' if it were written now days?

Perhaps Allah plays by human rules after all.

 

[ammuslim]

Bismillah:

Who is "We" & "Us"? Thought you have a non-trinitarian God, or does your Quran have wrong grammar?

God often refers to Himself using the word ‘We’. But this does not mean that Islam believes in the existence of more than one God.

In several languages, there are two types of plurals, one is a plural of numbers to refer to something that occurs in a quantity of more than one. The other plural is a plural of respect.

a. In the English language, the Queen of England refers to herself as ‘We’ instead of ‘I’. This is known as the ‘royal plural’.

b. Rajiv Gandhi, the ex-Prime Minister of India used to say in Hindi "Hum dekhna chahte hain". "We want to see." ‘Hum’ means ‘We’ which is again a royal plural in Hindi.

c. Similarly in Arabic, when Allah refers to Himself in the Qur’an, He often uses Arabic word 'Nahnu' meaning ‘We’. It does not indicate plural of number but plural of respect.

Tawheed or monotheism is one of the pillars of Islam. The existence and uniqueness of one and only one God is mentioned several times in the Qur’an. For instance in Surah Ikhlas, it says :

"Say He is Allah the One and Only."
[Al-Qur’an 112: 1]

salam
ammuslim

 

[Kris_J]

Bismillah:



God often refers to Himself using the word ‘We’. But this does not mean that Islam believes in the existence of more than one God.

In several languages, there are two types of plurals, one is a plural of numbers to refer to something that occurs in a quantity of more than one. The other plural is a plural of respect.

a. In the English language, the Queen of England refers to herself as ‘We’ instead of ‘I’. This is known as the ‘royal plural’.

b. Rajiv Gandhi, the ex-Prime Minister of India used to say in Hindi "Hum dekhna chahte hain". "We want to see." ‘Hum’ means ‘We’ which is again a royal plural in Hindi.

c. Similarly in Arabic, when Allah refers to Himself in the Qur’an, He often uses Arabic word 'Nahnu' meaning ‘We’. It does not indicate plural of number but plural of respect.

Tawheed or monotheism is one of the pillars of Islam. The existence and uniqueness of one and only one God is mentioned several times in the Qur’an. For instance in Surah Ikhlas, it says :

"Say He is Allah the One and Only."
[Al-Qur’an 112: 1]

salam
ammuslim

That is because when they say "We" they actually mean "We" as a people represented by the leader.

The use of "We" also implies a co-operative position rather than a dictatorial one.
All those people you mention represent a co-operative - of the ministerial cabinet, or of the royal family operating as a single body.

Allah is a dictator, not a co-operator. Unless Allah represents a co-operative body, Allah must say "I".

 

[yaqovzadeek]

Let's get some straight answers from Muslims Part 2​

Not one Muslim has yet to tell me the answers to these questions (bold):

1. Also, why didn't the Qu'ran contain the original Torah and Injeel so the Jews and Christians could return to the Truth of God? Surely God would not let Jews and Christians go for several hundred years without the Truth. That does not reflect well on God's integrity and sovereingnity towards those He gave revelations to.

Are you definitely sure that the Bible you have in hand is the original torah and Injeel revealed by Allah.
1.The torah was Lost and was rewritten from memory by Ezra that is a fact.
2.Every one knows it was not Moses who wrote the Pentateuch, he could not have written about his own death. GOD revealed tablets to Moses, the would have been damn Heavy if they contained 5 books. The true Torah was what was revealed to Moses on the mountain.Not the other books added and attributed to Moses.
3. there was a true Gospel ( injeel revelaed to jesus) and it definitely was not Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.They came in after.There were hundreds of gospels in circulation at the time and many were even Destroyed.Burnt together with their followers. So what Allah has revealed the truth in the quran and if those jews and Christians want to beleive the truth they will find it but as long as they refuse the truth it will not come looking for the.

From 3, if the full revelation was not included in the Qu'ran, why aren't the parts of the previous revelations (OT and NT) that were corrupted just be explained in detail much like a book with errors is revised so the reader can know the errors that existed and are now corrected? The Qu'ran does not seem to do this. It basically gives a complete revelation that is similar enough to the former, that it gives an illusion of being a correction. The fact that it mentions things from former does not mean that it actuallys corrects the former.​

The quran contains all the truth, The quran give the accounts of the prophets, their lives their missons and the message of GOD clearly.So all the fallacies about prophets and the corruptions that are in the bible are given in the true light in the Quran.I assume you have not read the Quran because you will find that in the Quran Prophets are not considered Fornicators and drunks and committing incest.Also the Quran talks of the Message of those prophets what they brought to their People, True monotheism, the Bible however tackles the Lineages, who was who and who married who , The bible does not Give the true message of montheism.The Quran all along specifies who GOD is, it mentions his qualities and attributes, it presses hard on Monotheism and warns those who ascribe partners to him.The bbile however does not tackle this issue.This is why true Monotheism is taken so lightly in Christianity so much that 3 equals to 1 and 1 equals to 3.
Anyway
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka James the just

 

[peaceful soul]

Thanks for the replies. I will address them later. Hang tight!

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

I assume you have not read the Quran because you will find that in the Quran Prophets are not considered Fornicators and drunks and committing incest

Why? Because they are not human and they can't fall?

The quran contains all the truth

Where is the truth of the events happened after Crucifixion?

The quran give the accounts of the prophets

Quote the entire account of Isa Al-Mesih from the Quran and see how long of an account that is.

 

[non-religious]

[Osiris]
For both you and the christians are arguing on matters of opinion, in reality neither could prove each other wrong because there is no way to emperically prove your opinions to be correct.

I think you have hit the nail on the head here..... Having read many of the posts in a number of these discussions it just seems to me that everything is about point scoring and childish disputes regarding whose God is the best. Comparisons can be made ad-nauseam and the way in which certain Christians are attacking and denigrating Islam is quite shameful. To debate the theology of each religion in a respectful and dignified manner is one thing, but to attack and disrespect each others faith is totally unnecessary and uncalled for. Perhaps the fact that the threads are descending into personal attacks upon the prophet or Lord just demonstrates the lack of understanding and knowledge regarding the specific faith. If you have strong points that are backed up by facts then provide the source so that we can all see where your coming from. It's just a shame that we can't debate issues without personal point scoring and insults....

 

[yaqovzadeek]

Where is the truth of the events happened after Crucifixion?



.

Truth after what Cruci-fiction?

 

[peaceful soul]

I think you have hit the nail on the head here..... Having read many of the posts in a number of these discussions it just seems to me that everything is about point scoring and childish disputes regarding whose God is the best. Comparisons can be made ad-nauseam and the way in which certain Christians are attacking and denigrating Islam is quite shameful. To debate the theology of each religion in a respectful and dignified manner is one thing, but to attack and disrespect each others faith is totally unnecessary and uncalled for. Perhaps the fact that the threads are descending into personal attacks upon the prophet or Lord just demonstrates the lack of understanding and knowledge regarding the specific faith. If you have strong points that are backed up by facts then provide the source so that we can all see where your coming from. It's just a shame that we can't debate issues without personal point scoring and insults....

Are you at all refering to this thread? If you are, you have the wrong understanding. If you are not, then you are making a comment that does not belong here. I am not trying to be rude. I am just trying to understand if you are refering in any way to what we have posted thus far.

 

[non-religious]

[non-religious]Having read many of the posts in a number of these discussions

I think I made it perfectly clear that I was referring to posts both present and past. What I do hope will happen during this thread is that people will not get personal and throw insults around as though that's somehow the norm and acceptable.... You have asked some pertinent questions and have wisely waited to respond. Great.. I just hope others will think before they respond because ultimately what we all want is to be able to articulate our points without feeling as though we have to resort to sly comments or a basic level of disrespect. I apologize for making my point in this thread, it bares no significance to the questions you have posted..

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

Also, why didn't the Qu'ran contain the original Torah and Injeel so the Jews and Christians could return to the Truth of God? Surely God would not let Jews and Christians go for several hundred years without the Truth. That does not reflect well on God's integrity and sovereingnity towards those He gave revelations to.

Perhaps you need to read the Quran. And dont tell us you did, cause if you did and understood what you were reading you would not have been making such a false indication in your question

From 3, if the full revelation was not included in the Qu'ran, why aren't the parts of the previous revelations (OT and NT) that were corrupted just be explained in detail much like a book with errors is revised so the reader can know the errors that existed and are now corrected? The Qu'ran does not seem to do this. It basically gives a complete revelation that is similar enough to the former, that it gives an illusion of being a correction. The fact that it mentions things from former does not mean that it actuallys corrects the former.

Man I tell ya, your asking the same accusative question as the first one but in different wording.

If your fisrt question is answered then it will automoatically answer you second.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Truth after what Cruci-fiction?

Oh you are funny, Mr. Ahmed Deedat's nonsense theories follower...