Let's discuss "selfish."

[Cynthia85]

After reading through some threads here I'm wondering about this word. A lot of people here, including myself, wonder if not having kids is selfish, what does it mean to be selfish, etc.

But what does that mean? Each of us here have reasons for not having children and aren't they all legitimate? Why would not having kids be considered selfish anyway?

 

[snoochface]

Why would not having kids be considered selfish anyway?

It's not.

In my opinion, if you know that:

1) you don't want kids, and/or
2) don't like kids, and/or
3) would not make a good parent

but you have kids anyway because of:

a) societal or familial pressure, and/or
b) fear of who will take care of you when you get old, and/or
c) you want to carry on your family name/genes, and/or
d) what if your parents chose not to have kids?, and/or
e) it would really help your marriage

then you are being selfish by having a child.

To me, not having a child when I know I would not be a good parent is not a selfish act, it is a selfless act. I'm not subjecting some innocent kid to having me as a parent. What's selfish about that?

 

[Rebekka]

I agree with snooch, but also, not all selfishness is bad. A lot of what we do is selfish, but it's inevitable. For example, eating. There's hunger in the world, so why do we still eat = "stealing" someone else's food? Because we die if we don't. So we put our own life before someone else's. That's selfish, but it's perfectly normal. Giving your life so that another may live is very noble, but hardly anyone does it.

Making a profit is selfish. Asking for a payrise is selfish. Asking someone to marry you is selfish. We do these things for our own gain, because they make us happy.

If you ask someone why they want (or had) kids, it's mostly because they want them and/or because it makes/made them happy, or they had a desire for parenthood, or something like that. So they had something to gain. That's as selfish as deciding that you don't want them because parenthood would make you unhappy. And in neither case I see this selfishness as something negative. It's normal to act towards your own happiness, and towards the happiness of your loved ones.

There are very few people in this world who are or were not selfish, and even the ones that are seen as completely selfless (e.g. Mother Teresa) probably were selfish in some way or other.

I don't know anyone in real life who didn't want kids but had them (on purpose) anyway, just to be selfless. And as snooch said, having them against your will is not exactly helpful to the child, as children deserve to be wanted and loved by their parents.

 

[janman345]

If selfish is my wife wanting to start and finish her degree and my self pay off my student loans and make truck repairs and .... oh oh oh God forbid buy a wave runner or maybe a nice benelli shot gun then count me in.

We may eventually have kids but we have alot of things we want to do first.

Honestly who cares who thinks this or that is selfish

 

[Autumnleaf]

Is it selfish or is it prideful? I know many people who are highly educated and earn a lot of money. Many choose not to have children. Making truck payments, buying an expensive gun, or even paying off a student loan faster is insignificant to the impact a properly raised child can make in the scheme of things. In 100 years what will matter? So I guess its a question of what you want the result of your life to be. He paid his bills on time and had a heck of a nice gun collection, versus survived by x number of children, and y number of grandchildren, and z number of great grand children.

Right now, I'd take the nice gun collection. I've never been one to care what others think.

 

[LoveWins]

i think its selfish.but i dont think selfish people would understand. because the fact that they are so self centered.and selfish people will take offence to this post because they are centered around themselves instead of G-d. Fear is based on not trusting in G-d. How are you to know if you would be a good parent or not if you haven't even tried? Life is a neverending learning process,no one is perfect. consider this: J.O.Y. Jesus first.Others second.Yourself last.

Philippians 4:19 (King James Version)
19But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
Philippians 4:6 (King James Version)
6Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

Psalm 127:3 (King James Version)
3Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

1 John 4:18 (King James Version)
18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Deuteronomy 6:5 (King James Version)
5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

 

[Rebekka]

So, LoveWins, the fact that I disagree with your post to you proves my selfishness, right? That's a nice subtle way to silence your opponents. You don't have to listen to them because they're selfish, and they won't understand you because selfish people can't understand.

Why on earth did you post in this forum, if we won't understand you anyway? Why bother? It's completely useless. And it's against the rules, too, if you look at the statement of purpose that the sticky on this forum links to:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7443236/
Childfree Couples
A new forum for couples who choose not to have children.
This forum is only for those members who have chosen to not have children. No other members allowed






The irony of your post is that it's prideful because you suggest you're not selfish (and I'm convinced that nearly everyone is, with very very few if any exceptions), but whatever.

 

[LoveWins]

Actually it doesn't silence them. It turns them around in circles back to them selves O. "You don't have to listen to them because they're selfish, and they won't understand you because selfish people can't understand."
You missed my point and made that one up!. My Point was if people were G-d centered. They would Relate to G-d instead of them selves. If they put their faith in G-d they would feel secure about the situations in their life ex: having a child. Giving G-d recognition for everything he brings you isn't prideful its called Humility. J.O.Y. Jesus first.Others second. Yourself last.

Philippians 4:19 (King James Version)
19But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
Philippians 4:6 (King James Version)
6Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

Psalm 127:3 (King James Version)
3Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

1 John 4:18 (King James Version)
18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Deuteronomy 6:5 (King James Version)
5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

 

[LoisGriffin]

I think you will find plenty of childfree Christians put God first. Can you explain why you don't type God?

What happens when God is calling couples not to have children? It happens you know. If it didn't happen then there wouldn't be those who cannot have children.

I can put other first because I don't have a mini-me to take up all my time.

 

[Rebekka]

You missed my point and made that one up!

And you missed mine because you didn't read my post! Reread it please. I don't want to argue with you because you have decided that we're all selfish here - instead of listening to us you come here to accuse us. That's against the rules of this subforum and you're not even allowed to post here - which you would have realised had you read my post above.


FWIW, I'm not childfree for any selfish reason, but even if I was it still wasn't none of your business, and not your call to judge.

 

[ziggy29]

I grow quite weary of the "selfish" argument. Have you heard some of the reasons people cite for having children? Taking care of them in their old age? Wanting to see their own DNA continue to live on after they are dead? How are these altruistic motivations? (I'm not condemning anyone here or saying these are horrible motives, just saying that if you point the finger at others, some fingers point back at you. The log in your own eye, anyone?)

From a stewardship of the earth point of view -- and God calls on us to be caretakers of His creation -- I don't see why adding to the human population amounts to good stewardship. When you think of more people competing over a finite pool of resources (some of them not very renewable), when you think of the war that often accompanies struggles for control of resources, when you realize we have only so much clean water and capacity to produce food, how is it selfish to not want to contribute to that problem?

My wife and I just assumed we'd have children at some point. But then as we got into our 30s and were married for a few years, we liked how things were going between us. Aside from our relationship with God we were fully able to be each other's "Number One" and we liked it that way. We thought that having children might also dilute our relationship with each other because now our considerations would have to be for our kids more than for each other. That's great for many people but it's just not what we wanted.

And frankly: why would anyone want children to have parents who didn't want to be parents? How is it in the interests of a child to know that they were born only because his/her parents, who didn't want to have children, only did so because of societal "peer pressure" to do it so they wouldn't be considered selfish?

 

[LoveWins]

Ok Im sorry. Please forgive me Rebekka. I do it out of respect G-d. I strongly believe that health issues can be reversed by taking care of your body by eatting organic fruits ,veg,herbs that G-d made for our biological design. People don't want to take responsiblity for their health until they have problems with their body. It doesn't just mysteriously come from no where.You are what you eat.

Physician,heal yourself!
Luke 4:23
​

 

[Rebekka]

I do forgive you.

Oh, and I'm all for eating healthy!

 

[april_eric_always_forever]

I've gotten the selfish vibe before plenty of times from "friends" that have kids, but frankly I think my husband and I are better off without kids. We are no where near rich by any means and the only payment we have is a mortgage on a close to 40 year old house. I don't have a paying job rather I volunteer at a ministry run resale shop and look in on several eldery couples / individuals and do whatever it is God has called me to do that he has given me the ability to. I don't handle stress well at all, but the way I see it God gave me a husband to take care of our financial needs so I wouldn't have to have quite as much stress.

 

[Robinsegg]

i think its selfish.but i dont think selfish people would understand. because the fact that they are so self centered.and selfish people will take offence to this post because they are centered around themselves instead of G-d.

I have children, love being a mom, and take offense to this statement. The act of saying "I don't have a desire for children" is not a selfish act. In fact, it *can* be a reflection of God's calling on someone's life, just as remaining celibate or choosing to homeschool ones' children can be.

Just because God doesn't call everyone to the same thing He called you, doesn't mean they're selfish.

Rachel

 

[Robinsegg]

You missed my point and made that one up!. My Point was if people were G-d centered. They would Relate to G-d instead of them selves. If they put their faith in G-d they would feel secure about the situations in their life ex: having a child. Giving G-d recognition for everything he brings you isn't prideful its called Humility. J.O.Y. Jesus first.Others second. Yourself last.

The Bible says lots of things are blessings from the Lord. That doesn't mean that He has great monetary wealth in mind for me, though He may for others. Jesus didn't have great monetary wealth while on Earth . . . does that mean Jesus was selfish and didn't trust God to help Him handle it?

Parenthood is a calling, just as being married or single is a calling. Your calling may be different than mine, because we're 2 different parts of the body of Christ. That doesn't mean either of us is wrong in our calling, just different.
R

 

[Blueflamingos]

It's not.

In my opinion, if you know that:

1) you don't want kids, and/or
2) don't like kids, and/or
3) would not make a good parent

but you have kids anyway because of:

a) societal or familial pressure, and/or
b) fear of who will take care of you when you get old, and/or
c) you want to carry on your family name/genes, and/or
d) what if your parents chose not to have kids?, and/or
e) it would really help your marriage

then you are being selfish by having a child.

To me, not having a child when I know I would not be a good parent is not a selfish act, it is a selfless act. I'm not subjecting some innocent kid to having me as a parent. What's selfish about that?

I COMPLETELY agree and feel the exact same way! Here here!

 

[Niffer]

Anything can be done with selfish intentions.

ex.

Having kids so ask to pass on family name (pride) to make sure I get support in my old age (self-centered) wanting to be able to prove I have a better family than X (pride)

Or

Not having kids, even though we could afford it, so instead we have more 'fun money' to spend on ourselves. Not committing to a relationship like that because we simply don't want to be bothered. Worried it will take too much time away from /me/ and what I want.

Anything can be done selfishly.

And none of us can see into each other hearts and prove that this person is selfish for their decision. We have no idea why, and nor is it any of our business to question why this family wants no children and this one has 6.

Who am I to judge?

Peace,
- Niffer

 

[snoochface]

Having kids so ask to pass on family name (pride) to make sure I get support in my old age (self-centered) wanting to be able to prove I have a better family than X (pride)

These all involve making other people (kids) responsible for the purposes of your own needs and agenda. Kids exist so that you can a/b/c etc.

But...

Not having kids, even though we could afford it, so instead we have more 'fun money' to spend on ourselves. Not committing to a relationship like that because we simply don't want to be bothered. Worried it will take too much time away from /me/ and what I want.

Not one of these examples involve sticking other people (kids) with the responsibility of satisfying your own need(s) or agenda.

There's nothing selfish about any of these examples, no more than it's selfish to stick $100 into a savings account even though you could afford to spend it. You're not stimulating the economy, and instead keeping that money for yourself, so you're being selfish? Or not starting up a friendship with the guy sitting next to you on the bus because you don't want to be bothered maintaining another relationship. You're being selfish by not beginning something that never was in the first place? When you aren't bringing other people into things, and you are not subjecting your desires and goals for your life on other people, you're not being selfish.

I see it as completely apples and oranges.

But I do completely agree that we don't know each other's hearts to know what is done selfishly and what is not. And agree that we therefore should not judge someone's motives.

 

[BondiHarry]

There is a difference IMO between the carnal self and spiritual self. The wants and desires of the carnal self has little regard for others and often even for oneself (destroying oneself with alcohol or drugs for example). The wants and desires of the spiritual self will be a reflection of God in us and has great regard for what is good for us and good for others. The carnal self is reflected in Galatians 5:19-21 and the spiritual self is reflected in Galatians 5:22-23.