Let's clear up the Eschatology Scripture?

[iamlamad]

I am not wrong in my timing.

lamad, here is what I suggest. On a piece of paper draw a long horizontal line with day 1 on the left and day 2520 on the right. And start putting events on the timeline. Like Jesus returns, note that on day 2520. Everything has to fit on the 7 year timeline - because it is 70 weeks determined on the Jews, until the Most Holy is anointed - which is Jesus returning to earth as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

The only text that pinpoints the day that the Abomination of desolation is setup is in Daniel 12:11-12. The 1335 days has to fit within the 7 year timeline.

There is nothing that says the AOD is setup on the exact midPOINT, the exact middle of the week. It says in the midst of the week, the middle part. day 1185 is in the middle part of the week.

Sorry, but the Hebrew word translated as "midst" means to divide in half. Sorry again, but 1185 is MYTH and is not dividing in half. john TELLS us what is half when he twice mentions 1260 days. It seems then that the bible is better at arithmetic than you are.

Next, please notice that Jesus DOES NOT return on the last day of the week, which ends with the 7th vial. There is NOTHING at the 7th vial denoting a coming. Also not that chapters 17 & 18 comes before 19, where Jesus really comes. It is MYTH to say Jesus comes on the last 24 hour period of the 70th week. If He did, people could count 1260 days and know the exact day. Yet Jesus said NO ONE knows the day.

The marriage and supper will take place in heaven AFTER the 7th vial and BEFORE Jesus comes. Those events will take some amount of time. Perhaps 30 days? Perhaps 75 days?

The 1335 days has to fit within the 7 year timeline.
No it doesn't! That is only in your mind. Most people consider that a day 75 days AFTER the 7th vial that ends the week.

 

[Douggg]

Sorry, but the Hebrew word translated as "midst" means to divide in half. Sorry again, but 1185 is MYTH and is not dividing in half. john TELLS us what is half when he twice mentions 1260 days. It seems then that the bible is better at arithmetic than you are.

1335 days is a myth? No it is not a myth, it is in the bible. That you don't know where to put the 1335 days on the 7 years timeline is the problem you are having....because your overall view is not correct.

What kind of math qualifications and timeline application qualifications do you have, anyway, that makes you so uppity to talk down at me about simple fifth grade adding and subtracting? I have a degree in civil engineering with three semesters of calculus, and a semester of differential equations, and had a 20+ year career as a project engineer which included putting together complex and complicated timelines and project flow charts, before retiring.

The problem is not math, since it is involves just basic adding and subtracting, but you do not understand bible prophecy. I really don't care to hear any more put downs about not understanding math. You are not Albert Einstein and everyone else a dunce.

 

[Douggg]

Next, please notice that Jesus DOES NOT return on the last day of the week, which ends with the 7th vial.

The 7th vial, it is done, is referring to that the last vial of God's wrath has been poured out - it does not say in the text the day on the timeline the 7th vial is poured out. So you do not have a biblical basis for your claim. It could happen on day 2519, or day 2518, or some other day near the end of the 7 years.

70 weeks, not 70 weeks and 75 days are determined upon Jerusalem - which Jesus is returning to the Mt. of Olives in Jerusalem - and Daniel's people Israel. Within the 70 weeks is anointing the Most Holy - which Jesus is begotten as King, to sit in David's throne in Jerusalem, which is the day he descends to destroy the armies gathered against him.

All of the time values given have to be within the 70 weeks because that is the time God stipulated. Not 70 weeks and 76 days. And it can and does all fit. But because you have mistakes in your understanding - you can't make everything fit.

 

[Straightshot]

"The Luciferian (Satan) conspiracy"


This is the tabloid clamor of the conspiracy buffs RB .... you are following junk that is loaded with error .... even satanic meddling in the package

 

[iamlamad]

1335 days is a myth? No it is not a myth, it is in the bible. That you don't know where to put the 1335 days on the 7 years timeline is the problem you are having....because your overall view is not correct.

What kind of math qualifications and timeline application qualifications do you have, anyway, that makes you so uppity to talk down at me about simple fifth grade adding and subtracting? I have a degree in civil engineering with three semesters of calculus, and a semester of differential equations, and had a 20+ year career as a project engineer which included putting together complex and complicated timelines and project flow charts, before retiring.

The problem is not math, since it is involves just basic adding and subtracting, but you do not understand bible prophecy. I really don't care to hear any more put downs about not understanding math. You are not Albert Einstein and everyone else a dunce.

I said the 1185 days is a myth. The 1335 is certainly scripture but they way you are trying to use it is not. The way it is written is that it will come 75 days after the 1260 days end.

Dan. 12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

Daniel is wondering how long to the end? End of what? What is the beginning? Daniel tells us in verse one:

12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:

This time of trouble, according to other scriptures, will begin shortly after the exact midpoint of the week. OF COURSE Michael shall stand up, for Rev. 12 tells us that he will go to war with Satan. So the beginning is the midpoint abomination, NOT anything like 1185 but in truth, the point that divides the week into two equal halves: 1260 -|exact midpoint|- 1260.

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

So the first answer Daniel is given to the question "how long to the end" is 3 1/2 years from the exat midpoint. Daniel is still not satisfied.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days [to the end Daniel is asking about].

So again the start in the exact midpoint established in verse one. But the end has been extended past the 1260 day with 30 days later. If we look in Revelation, perhaps there is 30 days between the 7th vial that ends the week and the time Jesus gets on the white horse to descend. The daily sacrifice will be stopped the moment the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is god: the 1260th day into the 70th week.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

IN CONTEXT this can only mean adding another 45 days to the 1290th day. Always remember, we have to have a starting point and this starting point is given to us in verse one: the start of the days of great tribulation. Daniel wants to know the END of these days of great tribulation and the associated events.

You may have all kinds of degrees, but you MUST follow the CONTEXT, which you have failed to do. Daniel is not talking about the midpoint in any way with these numbers. Go back and read it again: his question is "how long to the END..."

 

[Straightshot]

"But because you have mistakes in your understanding - you can't make everything fit."

The 70th week decreed for Israel is set in stone with a very exacting time lapse .... no room for manipulation

The duration of the time of Jacob's trouble [same as the coming tribulation] will be exactly this:

1260 days + 1260 days = 2520 days [360 day prophetic years]

Israel will be exposed and threatened during the entire period and specifically invaded and over come for the second 1260 [42 months]

The additional 30 days and 45 days of time frame will be as follows:

30 Days for the battle of Armageddon, and 45 days for the gathering of the survivors of the tribulation period = to the additional 75 days just after the second 1260 days

 

[Riberra]

30 Days for the battle of Armageddon, and 45 days for the gathering of the survivors of the tribulation period = to the additional 75 days just after the second 1260 days

-The gathering for the battle of Armageddon will begin in the last 30 days of the second 1260 days time frame.Revelation 16:12-14

-The Coming of Jesus as a thief happen when all the armies are gathered .
Revelation 16:15-16

-The 7th vial is the Coming of Jesus as a thief which will End the tribulation (Revelation 16:15-17)and begin The day of the Lord's total destruction of our actual civilization with the terrible earthquake [Revelation 16:15-21] and finally Jesus will appear in Glory to defeat the armies and all those people with the mark of the beast assembled at Armageddon Revelation 19.

Note
Revelation 17 and Revelation 18 is a summary about the rising and finally the destruction by God of Great Babylon the Kingdom of the beast.

 

[Douggg]

I said the 1185 days is a myth. The 1335 is certainly scripture but they way you are trying to use it is not. The way it is written is that it will come 75 days after the 1260 days end.

It does not say anything about 75 days beyond the end of the 7 years. Seventy weeks. Not Seventy weeks and 75 days.


24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

[iamlamad]

The 7th vial, it is done, is referring to that the last vial of God's wrath has been poured out - it does not say in the text the day on the timeline the 7th vial is poured out. So you do not have a biblical basis for your claim. It could happen on day 2519, or day 2518, or some other day near the end of the 7 years.

70 weeks, not 70 weeks and 75 days are determined upon Jerusalem - which Jesus is returning to the Mt. of Olives in Jerusalem - and Daniel's people Israel. Within the 70 weeks is anointing the Most Holy - which Jesus is begotten as King, to sit in David's throne in Jerusalem, which is the day he descends to destroy the armies gathered against him.

All of the time values given have to be within the 70 weeks because that is the time God stipulated. Not 70 weeks and 76 days. And it can and does all fit. But because you have mistakes in your understanding - you can't make everything fit.

I have a GOD basis for my claim. When God first began speaking to me about Revelation, He first said I could find the exact midpoint "clearly marked," then said I could find the entire 70th week "clearly marked." When He said that (I heard His voice and His words) I knew (by deposit not by words) that the reason I would find the entire 70th week clearly marked is that God would use the SAME MARKER for the midpoint, beginning and end.

Next, He told me how I could find the exact midpoint "clearly marked." "Every time I mentioned an event that would start at the midpoint and go to the end of the week, I always included the 3 1/2 year period of time. When you find the mentions of the 3 1/2 years you will be very close to the midpoint."

So I went on a search for the exact midpoint "clearly marked." I found it marked by a 7. the moment I found that the 7th trumpet "marked" the midpoint, I flipped pages fast to the 7th vial, and read the words, "it is done." (Some translations say "It is finished.") I knew at that moment I found what God sent me to find. I then flipped fast to the 7th seal and read of the 30 minutes of silence. I thought: How like God to "mark" the 70th week with "7's."

Therefore, I don't think the 7th vial ends the week, I KNOW it ends the week. I also know that Jesus does not come back then. He comes "AFTER" the end of the week. How long after? WE can only guess for John does not tell us how long the marriage and supper will take.

It "could" happen on any day close to the 2520th day. However, God is very punctual and very accurate with His word. He is not a man that He should lie. The 7th vial will be poured out, and the 70th week finish, on the 2520th day, and the 1260th day after the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is god.

If you can prove by scripture that I am mistaken, I will have to repent. I don't think you can.

Please tell us then, when you imagine the destruction of "Babylon" seen in chapters 17 and 18 will take place, and when the marriage and supper will take place. Don't use imagination; use scripture.

 

[iamlamad]

It does not say anything about 75 days beyond the end of the 7 years. Seventy weeks. Not Seventy weeks and 75 days.


24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The "end" is not on the last day of the 70th week. We KNOW times goes on, for there will be a thousand year reign of Christ following the 70th week. And Daniel DOES tells us that people will be blessed who wait for this 1335th day.

Again, we must take this in CONTEXT. Why do you insist on pulling things out of their context? Daniel asked about the END of these wonders, after seeing or hearing about the days of great tribulation. He had already written that the Little Horn would be given power over the saints, and it seems he saw this taking place in 12:1. So he is wondering when the terrible times will END.

First he is told it will be after time, times and half of time. He had already written those words before two, but still did not seem to understand. He asked again.

Next he is told that from the time the sacrifice ceases, and from the time the abomination is set up, it will be 1290 days. (notice, there is no "from" "to" in this verse. The "to" is understood to be the time of the end Daniel has been asking about.

There is nothing here that would even hint that anyone should subtract anything. He is told 3 1/2 years of waiting to the end, then is told 1290 days....of waiting to the end.

Finally, he is told that Blessed are those that WAIT....

He is still talking about waiting for the END of these wonders. Now he is told that if people can wait PAST the 1290th day (from the day the sacrifices cease) for another 45 days, they will really be blessed. Again, there is not even a HINT that any number should be subtracted from another number. It is a time of WAITING for the end to come. Then waiting PAST the end for another 45 days for a blessing.

Therefore I disagree totally with your theory: it simply does not fit the context.

Please note, the extra 30 days (past 1260) extends PAST the 70th week into the next millennial. So your argument is useless. Again, waiting for 45 MORE DAYS for a blessing probably takes them to the time the 1000 years officially begins. That would be a great blessing. My point is, there WILL BE TIME after the 70th week has ended. Time goes on. 1000 years is TIME.

I don't have to "make everything fit" into the 70th week because I know time continues on past the 7th vial. Go and read it: chapters 17, 18, 19, and on to the end of the book.

 

[iamlamad]

1335 days is a myth? No it is not a myth, it is in the bible. That you don't know where to put the 1335 days on the 7 years timeline is the problem you are having....because your overall view is not correct.

What kind of math qualifications and timeline application qualifications do you have, anyway, that makes you so uppity to talk down at me about simple fifth grade adding and subtracting? I have a degree in civil engineering with three semesters of calculus, and a semester of differential equations, and had a 20+ year career as a project engineer which included putting together complex and complicated timelines and project flow charts, before retiring.

The problem is not math, since it is involves just basic adding and subtracting, but you do not understand bible prophecy. I really don't care to hear any more put downs about not understanding math. You are not Albert Einstein and everyone else a dunce.

Douggg, please understand, I am not calling you or anyone else a dunce. I am not in any way coming against you as a person. It is false theories I challenge. I know, you think your theory is right. So does everyone else on this forum.

My entire point was, you subtract while Daniel, led by the holy Spirit, was ADDING.

 

[Straightshot]

"It does not say anything about 75 days beyond the end of the 7 years. Seventy weeks. Not Seventy weeks and 75 days."


What is "it" Doug? the scriptures "say" nothng .... you have to read them

The Lord is the One who has revealed this truth


Daniel
12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.


See if you can figure this out .... 1260 days + 1260 days + 30 days + 45 days

There other related scriptures necessary for the complete rendering

If not I can explain it to you

 

[Riberra]

He is told 3 1/2 years of waiting to the end, then is told 1290 days....of waiting to the end.

Finally, he is told that Blessed are those that WAIT....

He is still talking about waiting for the END of these wonders. Now he is told that if people can wait PAST the 1290th day (from the day the sacrifices cease) for another 45 days, they will really be blessed.

If people will have TO WAIT until the END of these things which mean until the Coming of Jesus...then that means that there is not rapture before...think about it !

 

[Riberra]

He is told 3 1/2 years of waiting to the end, then is told 1290 days....of waiting to the end.

Finally, he is told that Blessed are those that WAIT....

He is still talking about waiting for the END of these wonders. Now he is told that if people can wait PAST the 1290th day (from the day the sacrifices cease) for another 45 days, they will really be blessed.

Daniel is told that Blessed are those that WAIT until the END of these things [great tribulation], which mean until the Coming of The LORD...Then that means that there is not rapture before...think about it !

 

[Straightshot]

You think about RB .... nothing is mentioned about your refutation in the passage

Those survivors that make it through the tribulation will not be resurrected, but will be the residue of humanity that will enter and populate the Lord's millennial kingdom after the days of the tribulation

And Daniel will be there, but as one of the Lord's true ecclesia called before the tribulation .... this prophet will be one of the dead in Christ made immortal at the Lord's pre-tribulation call and he will rule with the Lord over His millennial kingdom of mortals

You are stuck in a bad place with your post-tribulation thinking

If you are not ready [saved] before the tribulation begins and think that you will have the tribulation period to prepare for a resurrection at the end of the days of the same you are fooling yourself

The only way that you will partake is if you are one who becomes a believer in the tribulation and is martyred .... or unless your are one of the Lord's two prophets who will also be resurrected at the end of the tribulation period

No other resurrections are scheduled at the ending of the tribulation

And you are not one of the Lord's two prophets who have not yet appeared

 

[Riberra]

You thing about RB .... nothing is mentioned about your refutation in the passage

Those survivors that make it through the tribulation will not be resurrected, but will be the residue of humanity that will enter and populate the Lord's millennial kingdom after the days of the tribulation

And Daniel will be there, but as one of the Lord's true ecclesia called before the tribulation .... this prophet will be one of the dead in Christ made immortal at the Lord's pre-tribulation call and he will rule with the Lord over His millennial kingdom of mortals

The Bible tell us the timing of the resurrection of the believers (in Christ)...that will be at His Coming 1 Corinthians 15:23.

-Jesus is the firstfruits-

1 Corinthians 15
20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Daniel is told that Blessed are the [believers]that WAIT [in faith and hope] until the END of these things [great tribulation], which mean until the Coming of The LORD...they will be changed into immortality along with the dead in Christ.

 

[Straightshot]

"The Bible tell us the timing of the resurrection of the believers ...that will be at His Coming 1 Corinthians 15:23."

This is true

His intervention to bring His unrelenting judgment upon an unbelieving world .... but just before He will call His true ecclesia of both the dead and the living together

He is the judge to bring the tribulation and He will not just show up at the end .... the world will not see Him as He pounds the earth with unprecedented wrath, but they will know where it is coming from [Revelation 6:12-17]

Better make certain you are ready .... there will be no signs or warnings .... could happen before this day is over

Only after His call will the judgments begin [1 Thessalonians 5:1-9; Revelation 3:10; 18:4]

 

[Riberra]

"The Bible tell us the timing of the resurrection of the believers ...that will be at His Coming 1 Corinthians 15:23."

This is true

His intervention to bring His unrelenting judgment upon an unbelieving world .... but just before He will call His true ecclesia of both the dead and the living together

The problem with your theory about the resurrection of the believers happening before the tribulation , is that Jesus tell us clearly in Matthew 24:29-31 that He will come AFTER the Tribulation not before.

In clear The resurrection of the believers mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:23 is tied to His Coming after the Tribulation of those days mentioned in Matthew 24:29-31.

 

[Straightshot]

If you want the tribulation experience RB, go for it

The Lord will give it to you .... no doubt .... unless you die before it comes

And if so your fate may be something that you do not want

I have to tell you that His "coming" is involves much more than you think

 

[Riberra]

If you want the tribulation experience RB, go for it

The Lord will give it to you .... no doubt .... unless you die before it comes

And if so your fate may be something that you do not want

I have to tell you that His "coming" is involves much more than you think

Lot of bad surprises are on your way. Remember that Jesus have not come in ''two phases'' at His First Coming ...Jesus tell us clearly when He will come again in Matthew 24 and that is clearly after the tribulation of those days...You can be sure that Jesus will not change His way of doing things just to accommodating you.You will have to wait too.