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aReformedPatriot

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1 Cor 5:12-13

For what have I do to do with Judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God Judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

So often I hear this on the forums, "dont judge me!" But Paul asks, "is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?" The Question is rhetorical prompting a positive answer. And almost as often I hear "you dont know whats in his heart," Well as this is a forum where our voices are heard, I cant help but be reminded of Matthew 15:18

But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person.

So what lies in the depth of your heart is made known because you wear it on your sleeve when you post. So let us be mindful of what we say.

You may say now, wait a second. "Read the sermon on the mount, it says remove the speck from your own eye, and dont forget the text that says, let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Surely this means that one must be sinless to judge. No it does not, but rather one must be right with the Lord (cf 1 John 1:7ff). Look at Paul, unless we forget that he is the self proclaimed worst of the worst in terms of sinners.

We, however must be sincere in our judgement. See the pharisees were guilty of this. They would judge, then turn around and do the same thing or worse. They did not have their brothers best intentions at the forefront, which is what should be the sole basis in correcting someone.

To sum it up, get right with God, have him remove the plank in your own eye so you are free from hypocrisy, put your brother first, and correct in all gentleness. This is the proper way to judge our brothers, and should the brother caught in sin refuse to repent 'purge the evil one from among you.'
 

ZiSunka

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Oh boy! Judging! I love judging!

You're wrong because I disagree with you! You're wrong because you interpret that scripture differently than I do! Your're wrong because I don't like you! You're bad because I practice my faith different than you! You're not a Christian because you disagree with my stance on a non-essential aspect of the faith!

I love judging and I'm glad we opened a thread to do it.

Oh wait. Maybe you don't mean judging as much as you mean discerning and discipling. :scratch:

Well, I'm open to that, too, in the spirit of love. :)
 
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aReformedPatriot

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lambslove said:
Oh boy! Judging! I love judging!

You're wrong because I disagree with you! You're wrong because you interpret that scripture differently than I do! Your're wrong because I don't like you! You're bad because I practice my faith different than you! You're not a Christian because you disagree with my stance on a non-essential aspect of the faith!

I love judging and I'm glad we opened a thread to do it.

Oh wait. Maybe you don't mean judging as much as you mean discerning and discipling. :scratch:

Well, I'm open to that, too, in the spirit of love. :)
:( Did I say anything extrabiblical?
 
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SumTinWong

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The Lord's Envoy said:
Well, ya know, I wanted to get back asap as I missed my favorite Uncle ;) :D
Well I am glad you got back here safley on the internet stupid (ahem) super highway. Your Aunty was worried about you;) I see that the off time helped you get pretty deep into the scriptures. Does this mean you will be doing more of this?
 
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aReformedPatriot

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Uncle Bud said:
Well I am glad you got back here safley on the internet stupid (ahem) super highway. Your Aunty was worried about you;) I see that the off time helped you get pretty deep into the scriptures. Does this mean you will be doing more of this?
Tell aunty her nephew is home and have her prepare the guest room, I aint going anywhere... except to work right now :)... And yes It's my hope only to post good stuff for the duration of my life on this rock :D
 
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ps139

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I always make a big distinction between judging one's salvation and judging whether something is a sin. Anyone know if there are different words in Greek for this or if it is the same word? For the first, the place I think of is Luke 6, for the second type, I guess we can go with 1 Cor 5
 
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SumTinWong

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The Lord's Envoy said:
Tell aunty her nephew is home and have her prepare the guest room, I aint going anywhere... except to work right now :)... And yes It's my hope only to post good stuff for the duration of my life on this rock :D
What? You got a job? At a place of business? Gall darn it who am I gona get to get the eggs from the cows and milk the chickens?

All seriousness, (is that a word?) I really enjoyed your post.
 
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ZiSunka

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The Lord's Envoy said:
We, however must be sincere in our judgement. See the pharisees were guilty of this. They would judge, then turn around and do the same thing or worse. They did not have their brothers best intentions at the forefront, which is what should be the sole basis in correcting someone.
I bet this still happens a lot--possibly more often than the sincere desire to help our brothers and sisters rise above their sins and grow into the likeness of Christ.

In judging sincerely, the operative word is still judging, it doesn't matter how sincere you are, you are still accusing and condemning. Christ would rather have us disciple and instruct each other than judge each other. No good ever came after the words, "You are bad because..."
 
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FreeinChrist

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The Lord's Envoy said:
1 Cor 5:12-13

For what have I do to do with Judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God Judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."
I believe this particular passage is about church discipline and dealing with members who are clearly sinning in a way that brings down the witness of the church. The particular problem that Paul is addressing is here:
1Cr 5:1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife.

1Cr 5:2 You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.

In other words, not even the Gentile pagans thought fornicating with your "father's wife" (probably not his mother though) was okay...yet this church member was openly doing it and was not disciplined in any way, but it was accepted - which is why Paul wrote:
1Cr 5:6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump {of dough?}

So in terms of today, if you have a minister, deacon, member who is openly in an adulterous relationship, as a church it needs to be dealt with. Privately, and then,if necessary, removal as a member.
 
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FreeinChrist

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lambslove said:
I bet this still happens a lot--possibly more often than the sincere desire to help our brothers and sisters rise above their sins and grow into the likeness of Christ.

In judging sincerely, the operative word is still judging, it doesn't matter how sincere you are, you are still accusing and condemning. Christ would rather have us disciple and instruct each other than judge each other. No good ever came after the words, "You are bad because..."
And yet, Paul used the word krino which means to divide, separate, make a distinction, come to a decision, to judge, to try in a judicial manner.
 
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AJ

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I sometimes look at scripture in the paraphrased context of The Message. Knowing that it is not TRUE scripture. Sometimes, it summarizes very well. :)

The Message:
1Co 5:9-13

(9)
I wrote you in my earlier letter that you shouldn't make yourselves at home among the sexually promiscuous.

(10) I didn't mean that you should have nothing at all to do with outsiders of that sort. Or with crooks, whether blue- or white-collar. Or with spiritual phonies, for that matter. You'd have to leave the world entirely to do that!

(11) But I am saying that you shouldn't act as if everything is just fine when one of your Christian companions is promiscuous or crooked, is flip with God or rude to friends, gets drunk or becomes greedy and predatory. You can't just go along with this, treating it as acceptable behavior.

(12) I'm not responsible for what the outsiders do, but don't we have some responsibility for those within our community of believers?

(13) God decides on the outsiders, but we need to decide when our brothers and sisters are out of line and, if necessary, clean house.
 
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AJ

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The word "judge" is the same in Luke 6:37 and 1 Cor 5:12

Strongs:
κρίνω

krino¯

kree'-no

Properly to distinguish, that is, decide (mentally or judicially); by implication to try, condemn, punish: - avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think.


ISBE:

Judge

juj (שׁפט, sho¯phe¯ṭ; New Testament δικαστής, dikaste¯´s, κριτής, krite¯´s): In the early patriarchal times the heads of families and the elders of the tribes were the judges (compare Gen_38:24), and their authority was based on custom. In the wilderness Moses alone was the judge until Jethro suggested a scheme of devolution. On his advice Moses divided the people into groups of thousands, hundreds, fifties, and tens, and over each group a wise and good man was set as a judge. Thereafter only the most important cases were brought before Moses (Exo_18:13-26; Deu_1:9-17). This arrangement ceased to be practicable when the children of Israel settled down in Canaan. Although David took counsel with the heads of thousands and hundreds (1Ch_13:1), it need not be assumed that this was a continuation of the plan adopted by Moses. Probably the local courts were not organized till the time of David. In the days of the Judges justice was ministered by those who had risen by wisdom or valor to that rank (Jdg_4:5). An organized circuit court was established by Samuel, who judged cases himself, and also made his sons judges (1Sa_7:16; 1Sa_8:1). After the monarchy was instituted, the king tried all cases, when requested to do so by the wronged person, in the palace gate (1Ki_7:7; Pro_20:8). There was no public prosecutor (2Sa_14:4; 2Sa_15:2-6; 1Ch_18:14; 1Ki_3:16; 2Ki_15:5). Under David and Solomon there were probably local courts (1Ch_23:4; 1Ch_26:29). Jehoshaphat organized a high court of justice (2Ch_19:8). The prophets often complain bitterly that the purity of justice is corrupted by bribery and false witness (Isa_1:23; Isa_5:23; Isa_10:1; Amo_5:12; Amo_6:12; Mic_3:11; Mic_7:3; Pro_6:19; Pro_12:17; Pro_18:5). Even kings sometimes pronounced unjust sentences, especially in criminal cases (1Sa_22:6-19; 1Ki_22:26; 2Ki_21:16; Jer_36:26). An evil king could also bend local courts to do his will, as may be gathered from the case of Naboth's vineyard (1Ki_21:1-13).

The first duty of a judge was to execute absolute justice, showing the same impartiality to rich and poor, to Jew and foreigner. He was forbidden to accept bribes or to wrest the judgment of the poor (
Exo_23:6-8; Deu_16:19). He must not let himself be swayed by popular opinion, or unduly favor the poor (Exo_23:2, Exo_23:3).

The court was open to the public (
Exo_18:13; Rth_4:1, Rth_4:2). Each party presented his view of the case to the judge (Deu_1:16; Deu_25:1). Possibly the accused appeared in court clad in mourning (Zec_3:3). The accuser stood on the right hand of the accused (Zec_3:1; Psa_109:6). Sentence was pronounced after the hearing of the case, and the judgment carried out (Jos_7:24, Jos_7:25). The only evidence considered by the court was that given by the witnesses. In criminal cases, not less than two witnesses were necessary (Deu_19:15; Num_35:30; Deu_17:6; compare Mat_18:16; 2Co_13:1; 1Ti_5:19). In cases other than criminal the oath (see OATH) was applied (Exo_22:11; compare Heb_6:16). The lot was sometimes appealed to (Jos_7:14-18), especially in private disputes (Pro_18:18), but this was exceptional. When the law was not quite definite, recourse was had to the Divine oracle (Lev_24:12; Num_15:34).
 
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aReformedPatriot

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lambslove said:
In judging sincerely, the operative word is still judging, it doesn't matter how sincere you are, you are still accusing and condemning. Christ would rather have us disciple and instruct each other than judge each other. No good ever came after the words, "You are bad because..."
I find it funny that you reject judging, when it is clearly sanctioned in the word of Christ. And indeed, if no good came from judging someone (in the right manner), "you are bad because," then we wouldnt have Paul's exhortation of judgement against the immoral man inside the church. The sole purpose behind that, is the good that can come from it. Hence Paul says "you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord." If that is not a good result of judging, then I do not know what is.

freeinchrist said:
I believe this particular passage is about church discipline and dealing with members who are clearly sinning in a way that brings down the witness of the church. The particular problem that Paul is addressing is here:

So in terms of today, if you have a minister, deacon, member who is openly in an adulterous relationship, as a church it needs to be dealt with. Privately, and then,if necessary, removal as a member.
Yea you've got the context nailed down. And your right, first privatly as scripture says. Are you saying though, that the only righteous form of judgment can be judgment against sexual immorality?


Bottom line, there is good judging, and corrupt judging. We are not to judge those outside of the body of Christ, that is God's jurisdiction. However we are told to do so in the new testament concerning believers. I think judging is one of the most misunderstood teachings of the new testament, so much so people are afraid of it.

thanks for the greek by the way.
 
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aReformedPatriot

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Uncle Bud said:
What? You got a job? At a place of business? Gall darn it who am I gona get to get the eggs from the cows and milk the chickens?
You cannot get eggs from cows and milk chickens, and if you could, why i think i would freak out.

I work at a gas station though, i had 3 people swearing at me today because i refused to sell them some sauce
 
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