Leonard Nimoy

[exitstageright]

It would be so much nicer if Christians had loved thru the ages. America in many ways was a reaction to all the Christian wars that had been going on in Europe for over 2 centuries. Why would Christians be at war when Jesus said to love our enemies?

Yes,if the early christians had lived what Jesus taught,instead of causing wars,it would be a lot easier to witness.I guess the early christians overlooked,and /or did not read what Paul wrote about our enemies are not flesh and blood,but are wicked ones in the spiritual realm.

 

[dayhiker]

I think by the time Christianity got to Rome and the local believers were thinking like the City of Rome had for 6 hundred year, expanding and ruling others, the church took on the same same attitude. While they were doing it for Christ, I think they were trying to bring the kingdom of God to Earth to rule just as the Roman Empire had ruled.

Its interesting that when the western church divided Catholic and Protestant the church was totally confused as to how God could allow the church to be divided. The vision of the Church ruling the world as a empire for God was coming to an end.

 

[blackribbon]

I don't think we do a good job of showing God's love in the modern world. Walk a street prostitute or crack addict into any church on Sunday morning and watch people walk wide circles around them and give them dirty "you bad sinner" looks...instead of warm embraces and "Welcome to God's home, precious child of the King"

 

[MorkandMindy]

Does that welcome also extend to Democrats?

 

[dayhiker]

How many churches, err people in church and Sunday school sang, "red, yellow, black and white ... they are precious in His sight." But then didn't live that message.

 

[blackribbon]

Does that welcome also extend to Democrats?

How sad that you would even think the line is that clear. Some of the strongest Christian I know are Democrats. The political parties are not defined by religion but more idealism and economics. Often these run along the same lines but not necessarily hand and hand.

The past few years, the Democratic leadership tends toward non-Christian ideals...and tolerance for everyone except Christians. I have seen some staunch Democrats Christians change parties as a result because they can no long back the general policies in good consciousness but that does not mean there are not good Christians still there. I suspect that the pseudo-christian groups like Westboro Baptist Church probably is Republican in leanings and I certainly wouldn't want to be even remotely connected to that wicked group. However, if a member showed up to my church...I hope he/she would be greeted with love and acceptance as a lost child of the Risen King.

 

[blackribbon]

How many churches, err people in church and Sunday school sang, "red, yellow, black and white ... they are precious in His sight." But then didn't live that message.

I think people as a whole are more likely to believe this means CHRISTIAN red, yellow, black and white...they forget that we are to love the people in the other religions, just not follow their beliefs. I watch my mother struggle with this. She has become very closed minded in her old age (she wasn't always that way)...but God keeps dropping people in her life that challenge these hard and set beliefs. I am glad to say that when it comes to individuals, she actually lives a Christian life even though the thoughts she struggles with often bother me. I think she is in early stages of dementia and maybe the new set of mental "rules" for Christianity is more a part of that and her very intelligent brain struggling to hang on to the real world. So far she is winning except I tend to want to bounce my head against a wall after talking to her.

Hahaha...a couple years ago, I drove her through Dearborn, Michigan right before Christmas. It is known for having the highest concentration of Muslims in the US. She was just sure that all of Detroit was basically a suburb of the Middle East. Imagine her surprise (and mine even), we saw a NATIVITY set up on the lawn of the City Hall. This was all while another nearby town that is primarily Christian was dealing with permit battle for a man who annually set up a huge nativity on his private property but at a very predominant busy intersection. Someone thought that their right to freedom of religion was being violated because he had to look at the Christian display while waiting at that intersection. People really must not have very deep set beliefs if they think their whole belief system could be rocked by looking at a display of any sort could change their heart. Sad. In this country, we have freedom OF religion but no where is there a guarantee of freedom FROM religion like a people tend to believe it says.

 

[MorkandMindy]

It's just an impression I have, but it seems so many Muslims in the Middle East are so very religious.

I hope I'm wrong but it seemed in Iraq that a lot of the Iraqi males were just pointing an AK-47 out the window and shooting blindly expecting Allah to guide the bullets. The US and British soldiers on the other hand had trained long to become good shots and for defense wisely put their trust in the kevlar and ceramic layers developed by modern science.

I sometimes wonder if the very religious in the US aren't fighting their own closest religious allies in the Middle East when I notice that both Christian and Muslim fundamentalists are anti evolution new Earth creationists and I'm not sure many other people are.

.

 

[MorkandMindy]

I didn't make the connection clear between the comment on the Muslim population of Dearborn and the celebration of Christian festivals, largely because I didn't have the storage left to post the examples.

I guess there are 3 things I don't understand, and one is why so many Christians feel no unity with people of similar beliefs and inclinations in parallel beliefs.

There are 2 other things I totally don't understand but I have to go now.

 

[blackribbon]

I am Christian but not Roman Catholic....which means I don't give up anything for lent. Most Christians do not give up anything for lent.

 

[dayhiker]

ya, to me lent is a man made activity. I've never felt the Spirit of God leading me to be part of it.

 

[MorkandMindy]

I am Christian but not Roman Catholic....which means I don't give up anything for lent. Most Christians do not give up anything for lent.

ya, to me lent is a man made activity. I've never felt the Spirit of God leading me to be part of it.

I hadn't thought of that.

The church I attended most recently for a service was Baptist and the heading for this month is Lent.

The last sermon in February was 'Lent: Actions speak louder than words Mark 1:14-48'

This is part of the February timetable -

 

[MorkandMindy]

I'll have to come back and ask about things on Saturday or Sunday because I'm out of time. I really like the desire to welcome people of other faiths, without that as BR pointed out you are not loving other people and I know this is a core value of day hiker's as well, I just seem to have lost touch with everything else when I changed countries.

 

[dayhiker]

Mork .. I don't think I fully understand what your saying by you lost touch with everything in your move. But your a smart guy and I know you'll get it figured out.

 

[blackribbon]

As Christians, we are not to accept other religions but rather PEOPLE that believe other things. We don't tear down what they believe but rather show them...(notice this is an action and not a lecture)...that what God offers is better and more fulfilling. It isn't an intellectual experience but rather a whole life experience because God is the God of everything. We don't change people...He does. Our job is to be living examples of God's love so that people desire to seek the invisible God.

 

[exitstageright]

As Christians, we are not to accept other religions but rather PEOPLE that believe other things. We don't tear down what they believe but rather show them...(notice this is an action and not a lecture)...that what God offers is better and more fulfilling. It isn't an intellectual experience but rather a whole life experience because God is the God of everything. We don't change people...He does. Our job is to be living examples of God's love so that people desire to seek the invisible God.

this reminds me of that saying,"I'd rather see a sermon,than hear a sermon any day."

 

[MorkandMindy]

Mork .. I don't think I fully understand what your saying by you lost touch with everything in your move. But your a smart guy and I know you'll get it figured out.

Thank you day hiker, I think it might now be sussed (= US 'figured out').

Crossing to here initially everything seemed the same, scenery a bit drier but not really all that different, the people seem the same too.


Why I left England:
Politics matters because it determines economics and that impacts life.

UK - house prices have been rising for years handing money to anyone in the upper 70% of the wealth range who owns a house. A four bedroom house 70 miles from London would now cost 750,000 dollars. Modern houses often have garages that small.

There have long been fears that the housing bubble would pop but when Tony Blair resigned from his position as Prime Minister he bought yet another very expensive house so it was clear house prices would do fine. There was a 'prime mortgage crisis' (when the car factories moved from Michigan to Mexico there were a lot of surplus houses in Michigan so house prices fell in Detroit for example from 100k average to 13k average).

The British government responded by handing the banks a vast amount of money with the instruction to lend it out to house buyers. That propped up house prices and allowed them to rise further. The banks then chose to loan to those with a lot more collateral, preferably real estate, so they lent a lot to landlords and with tightened lending requirements, a lot less to private buyers who therefore had to continue renting.

 

[blackribbon]

The houses in Detroit ... as in the city of Detroit ... didn't drop value because of the issues with the car factories. Those people all live in the suburbs (better known as metro Detroit) and none of the houses in the "good" neighborhoods ever dropped anywhere near that low in price. Prices are back up now and they were building new homes even during the dead of winter. When you see a house that is dirt cheap in Detroit, it is because the neighborhood has basically been deserted and it is a very scary place to live (urban blight). That is still left over from the riots in the 1960's and the corrupt Detroit government after the riots. (Actually metro Detroit is starting to thrive again.) Most of the automotive factories are up and running again...at least on my side of town.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Sorry, my laziness there, as you say the situation has turned around, the graphs show the decline stopped about 2008 or 2009 and is currently improving.

Also because I was talking to someone here, who had left Michigan when things got really bad there's a selection bias um (duh)...

I found some statistics, they won't have the up to date information you have.

Thanks for the info.

 

[MorkandMindy]

As so often happens I have a point, put in too much detail, some of which I don't have time to check and get wrong... and never make it to where I'm going, so here goes:

The big overall difference in terms of my finances which required moving out of England was that Britain is run by the banks. High house prices is the banks darling because they borrow around 1/2 % and lend at 5% and have government guarantees in various forms so it is really just free money for them.

Where do the profits come from? Me and loads of others. In Britain it is common to spend a huge amount of money on housing, either mortgage or rent and both largely end up in the banks. So the British don't have a lot of expendable income, they are mainly working for the banks.