Legalization of Marijuana

Abner Cadaver · Mar 25, 2005

There is nothing better for nausea at any price.

proclaim · Mar 25, 2005

Now, I don't know your position in putting religion into politics, but...

Our Bodies are supposed to be Gods temple. We should treat them well and responsibly.

Even if legalized marijuana could lower crime, it's not treating your body well.

" If any one destroys [or abuses] God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and that temple you are." ~1 Corintians 3:17

And with marijuana being a "safe drug", the effects of using it can be terrible.

memory and learning problems
distorted perception (same as alcohol)
difficulty thinking
difficulty solving problems

(reference: http://www.drugabuse.gov/DrugPages/Marijuana.html)

On the issue of marijuana being a gateway drug:

This isn't very clear. There have been many studies and each one has either revealed that marijuana is a gateway drug, or is not. I surfed the net and found this:
"Nearly 90% of cocaine users had smoked tobacco or drank alcohol or used marijuana first. The study, based on 30,000 American households, established a clear progression that began with use of the gateway drugs of alcohol, tobacco or marijuana and led to use of other drugs." But not all studies reveal this.

What is true in each study is that marijuana and other is one of the most used drug by teenagers/children. This is usually one of the first drugs used by most people, at an average age 11.5. But, on drapers side, there isn't a definite link between marijuana use and herione/cocaine use. Alcohol and Tobbaco are clear gateway drugs. Studies show that an alchoholic is 50 times more likely to use cocaine, and a tobbaco addict is 19 times more likely to use cocaine (see reference 5). And 90% of cocaine addicts had either smoked or drank alchohol (addictivly) before becoming a cocaine alchoholic.

(reference:

selfintercession · Mar 25, 2005

draper said:
I would be lying if I pretended to care about a few irresponsible people.

Unfortunately, the government and the majority of Canadian do... becuase those few people tend to make life a lot harder for people who are responsible.

draper said:
Pot is the least addictive recreational drug, and it's not something you should be doing in the first place if you don't have the self control to stop, like anything else.

That's like saying doing 50 over the speed limit is less dangerous than doing 100 over the speed limit. It's still dangerous, and it still has the potential to harm society at large. If we could always rely on people to make those good choices, we wouldn't need to have laws.

draper said:
If you think that if you buy a PlayStation you'll use it so much that you stop interacting with friends and doing homework, don't buy it, and if you do anyways too bad for you. Let's not punish the responsible PlayStation users.

The difference here is that there is less potential for harm against society at large.

draper said:
And anyways legalizing pot would allow for addiction to be treated as the problem that it is. Currently, an addict can't exactly go to therapy claiming to be addicted to marijuana -- they'd be arrested.

No, they wouldn't. The hospital or clinic can't just call the police and tell them they have an addict that they're treating, the police have to get a court order to access medical files. The only way that could really happen is if there was a police officer who just happened to see someone come in and see it... even what that does happen, the police usually don't bother with those people since they're trying to clean up their act anyway. You realise that there are a lot of people in treatment centres who check themselves in right? That they're not all ordered to be there by the courts?

Smoking pot may not be malum in se, but if it weren't malum prohibitum we'd have a lot more addicts to help... and many people are led to more serious drugs even if they've only ever done pot. That's an other huge problem with it.

Seeker17 · Mar 25, 2005

zoziw said:
I am opposed to the legalization of marijuana at the present time because the Americans have adopted a "security trumps trade" policy which includes not just the "War on Terror" but also the "War on Drugs" and this may result in a more difficult trading relationship with the Americans that is not in the best interest of Canada.

This was the point I was going to make. I'm for people being free to do what they will, so long as they aren't harming others, but as zoziw says, we need to be concerned with attitudes south of the border. We rely on them for our economic survival, and they can hurt us if they have a mind to.

benlym · Mar 25, 2005

Like Jesus said it's not what goes in a man that makes him sinfull, but rather what comes out. By this we can assume taking marijhuna is ok. The exeption being unless you act against Gods word because of MJ ie fornification etc or excess drinking then its a sin....

selfintercession · Mar 25, 2005

The Bible also says that your body is a temple to God. Do you think that inhaling smoke glorifies His temple? Or defiles it?

Abner Cadaver · Mar 25, 2005

lost_and_found said:
The Bible also says that your body is a temple to God. Do you think that inhaling smoke glorifies His temple? Or defiles it?

Neither-and you can't prove otherwise. God doesn't care what we smoke. It aint a sin. You could possibly convince me it's a bad habit, but forget the sin part. Marijuana is not dangerous, nor is it a "gateway" drug. It is God's gift & it is medicine.

selfintercession · Mar 25, 2005

Abner Cadaver said:
Neither-and you can't prove otherwise. God doesn't care what we smoke. It aint a sin. You could possibly convince me it's a bad habit, but forget the sin part. Marijuana is not dangerous, nor is it a "gateway" drug. It is God's gift & it is medicine.

Actually, it is a gateway drug. I've seen it work that way first-hand on more than one occasion. By the way, you cannot prove that it IS NOT a sin. The use of marijuana affects your brain if you use it enough -- that is scientifically-proves. It also has a lot of discernable physical effects and God did not intend for us to go ruining our teeth and smoking up our lungs which He created. May God bless and enlighten you :crossrc:

Svt4Him · Mar 25, 2005

Well, here's something to think about:

http://www.teenswithproblems.com/harmlessdrug.html

Well, here's another:

http://www.canadian-health-network.ca/servlet/ContentServer?cid=1052490786377&pagename=CHN-RCS%2FCHNResource%2FCHNResourcePageTemplate&c=CHNResource

And finally:

Too many, distinguished lawyers and sociologists fail to realize that Cannabis preparations selectively alter brain mechanisms and produce what Moreau called in 1845 "a state of mental alienation."

It seems that following John Kaplan (1971), too many lawyers have under-estimated the toxicity of Cannabis preparations to the central nervous system.. It is scientifically incorrect to claim as did Bonnie and Whitebread (1971) in a review published in Science, that marijuana is "scientifically" analogous to tobacco cigarettes. Tobacco is not a psychodysleptic substance which disintegrates mental function, and can be smoked daily without impairment of psychomotor performance.

We have seen that, in the present irrational epidemic of "toxicomania, the freedom of adolescents is fundamentally threatened. This, then, threatens the free institutions of a democratic society. To make stupefying drugs more freely available cannot be considered a victory for freedom. And in the case of free availability of such drugs, a fundamental substantive question still remains: How to protect those who are too young to make an informed decision. Lawyers and judges who advocate a freer availability of stupefying drugs should attempt to formulate answers to this question.

http://www.ineoa.org/page30.htm

Marijuana contains 425 bioactive molecules, increasing to over 2.000 identifiable chemicals entering the blood when it is smoked.

Sixty-one of these 425 bioactive molecules are called cannabinoids.
Cannabinoid molecules do not dissolve in water; they settle and collect in the fatty tissue of cell walls for months and block the passage of nutrients into the cell and waste products out of the cell.
The blockage results in slowing down the manufacture of DNA, RNA and proteins in the cell nucleus-a process essential for cell life. The genetic equilibrium of sex cells is thus impaired.
In the male, marijuana reduces sperm production and can damage sperm cells (spermatazoa).
In the female, marijuana can cause irregular menstrual cycles and can damage egg cells (ovum).
The cells of all the major organs of the body become saturated with fat-soluble cannabinoids depending on the length of(time the cannabinoids have been there.
Cell energy is lowered resulting in a reduction of chemicals necessary to pass electrical messages from one cell to another . Compare this to a low energy battery in a radio-the message is slower and unclear.
Concentration necessary for basic academic skills is interrupted, resulting in an overall decrease in thinking ability.
The brain is made up of 113 fat. When the cell walls in brain tissue become completely saturated with THC, the brain cells die.They cannot be replaced.
The DeJta-9 THC cannabinoid is most responsible for the nervous system changes or state of intoxication. To be intoxicated is to become stupified to the point where physical and mental control is noticeably diminished.
THC saturated fatty tissues act like time-release capsules- steadily releasing THC into the blood and keeping the marijuana smoker in a state of continual sedation.
Marijuana is often claimed to be non-addictive. This is not true. Physical withdrawal symptoms are mild because marijuana cannot be withdrawn from the body rapidly; the body has its lingering supply stored in fat tissue. Saturated fat tissue may not lose the cannabinoids for 9 months or more.
Regular marijuana smoking produces a drug-dependent personality, and generally leads to escalated use of many drugs. It gradually drags the smoker into continual sedation, separating him from reality and forcing him into a dream world of drugs.
Fat-soluble THC impairs the performance of psychomotor tasks that require coordination and attention.
Marijuana inhibits nausea so alcohol can be consumed in larger doses. Consequently, marijuana has caused an epidemic of alcohol abuse, drunk driving injuries and death, and death from alcohol overdose.
Marijuana smoker's immune system response is lowered by 40%

thirsty · Mar 25, 2005

draper said:
Here's a juicy can of worms.

So, anyone and everyone who opposes -- state why.

(BTW I don't think this thread is against the rules..if it is please delete with my sincerest apologies!)

Do you smoke pot?

California Dreamin' · Mar 25, 2005

I am not a marijuana user but I support the legalization for the simple fact that there is so much violence involving police officers. There are too many police officers being killed for trying to enforce anti-drug laws. There is also a lot of violence among drug users, drug dealers, etc.
I do not use any illegal drugs, I do not plan to, I do not even smoke cigarettes, but I think legalizing marijuana could be a smooth transition. The Netherlands is so advanced and ahead of us on many issues, they always have been a leader in this world.

draper · Mar 25, 2005

thirsty said:
Do you smoke pot?

That's a loaded question that answering either way could open me to criticism, so I won't.

If I say yes, then I'm a criminal and stupid for "defiling my body."

If I say no, then in a lot of people's eyes I'm unqualified to discuss the issue [though I don't think that makes me so] and in a lto of people's eyes I would be debating a moot point [which again I do not think is true]

Anyone who posts in this thread's use of marijuana is totally irrelevant to the debate...its an issue of legalization for a society; not the personal use of ChristianForums.com members.

Dizzy · Mar 25, 2005

Well I'd like to add that draper has posted pretty good facts, and alot of the people on here know little to nothing on what they're posting about marijuana... Too much TV has brainwashed many people's minds on that matter...

Svt4Him · Mar 25, 2005

Dizzy said:
Well I'd like to add that draper has posted pretty good facts, and alot of the people on here know little to nothing on what they're posting about marijuana... Too much TV has brainwashed many people's minds on that matter...

This makes me laugh.

draper · Mar 25, 2005

proclaim said:
Now, I don't know your position in putting religion into politics, but...

Absolutely not!

proclaim said:
Even if legalized marijuana could lower crime, it's not treating your body well.

Consider playing baseball or basketball or hockey, though. Look at professional hockey players, I bet they're a lot worse off after a game than a pot smoker is after a session.

proclaim said:
memory and learning problems

Well, this was refuted in a link I posted earlier. While that may be true, it is very misleading. While on marijuana your memory may not be the greatest nor your ability to learn -- but I doubt you could remember or learn much playing hockey, skydiving or driving a car!

proclaim said:
distorted perception (same as alcohol)

Yes and no. Significantly, significantly lower than alcohol. Light years.

proclaim said:
difficulty thinking
difficulty solving problems

Really? I have heard of people scoring absurdely high on IQ tests while high. As well, marijuana "heightens your senses" and thus your ability to analyze situations and process information. I would much rather be in a burning building high than drunk -- and I say that based on information I have heard/things I have heard, not any personal experience.

proclaim said:
This isn't very clear. There have been many studies and each one has either revealed that marijuana is a gateway drug, or is not. I surfed the net and found this:
"Nearly 90% of cocaine users had smoked tobacco or drank alcohol or used marijuana first. The study, based on 30,000 American households, established a clear progression that began with use of the gateway drugs of alcohol, tobacco or marijuana and led to use of other drugs." But not all studies reveal this.

What is true in each study is that marijuana and other is one of the most used drug by teenagers/children. This is usually one of the first drugs used by most people, at an average age 11.5. But, on drapers side, there isn't a definite link between marijuana use and herione/cocaine use. Alcohol and Tobbaco are clear gateway drugs. Studies show that an alchoholic is 50 times more likely to use cocaine, and a tobbaco addict is 19 times more likely to use cocaine (see reference 5). And 90% of cocaine addicts had either smoked or drank alchohol (addictivly) before becoming a cocaine alchoholic.

(reference:

http://www.pride.org/gatewaydrugs.htm

http://www.marijuanaaddiction.info/marijuana-gateway-drug.htm

http://www.answers.com/topic/gateway-drug

http://www.niagara-news.com/v35Issues/v35i11/sexdrugsalchohol/gatewaydrug.html

http://www.drugwatch.org/Alcohol%20&%20Tobacco_Gateway%20Drugs.htm

Thank you very much for being open to both sides of the issue!

One thing I would like to say, though perhaps it is a bit obvious -- marijuana will be the first illegal drug most people use because it is the most easy to get. I would think that if marijuana and heroin's accessibility were reversed, we would be sitting here arguing that heroin leads to marijuana use, though I'm not sure if that is the greatest analogy.

Here is another link I discovered, ironically through the ads on the bottom of CF

http://www.medicalmarijuanaprocon.org/

Of particular interest -

http://www.medicalmarijuanaprocon.org/bin/procon/procon.cgi?database=5%2dC%2dSubs%2edb&command=viewone&id=5&op=t

Svt4Him · Mar 25, 2005

Nice site, but have you read it?

Well, this was refuted in a link I posted earlier. While that may be true, it is very misleading. While on marijuana your memory may not be the greatest nor your ability to learn -- but I doubt you could remember or learn much playing hockey, skydiving or driving a car!

And there are actually scores of research that show this to be so. As for hockey skydiving or driving a car, they don't affect your ability to learn, so it's a bit of a red herring.

Really? I have heard of people scoring absurdely high on IQ tests while high. As well, marijuana "heightens your senses" and thus your ability to analyze situations and process information. I would much rather be in a burning building high than drunk -- and I say that based on information I have heard/things I have heard, not any personal experience.

Could you give me a cite for this? We'll have to ignore the latter part I'm thinking, as anecdotal evidence really holds little weight. Personally I'd rather not be in a burning building. Perhaps falling asleep while smoking a joint was the reason the building caught on fire to begin with.

draper · Mar 25, 2005

Svt4Him said:
Nice site, but have you read it?

THe pro/con one? Yeah.

Svt4Him said:
Could you give me a cite for this?

It's just something I have heard from other people...whether or not you choose to let that carry weight with you is your perogative. Here is something online that, while not agreeing with my argument certainly does not contradict it:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?rendertype=abstract&artid=100921

Interpretation
Current marijuana use had a negative effect on global IQ score only in subjects who smoked 5 or more joints per week. A negative effect was not observed among subjects who had previously been heavy users but were no longer using the substance. We conclude that marijuana does not have a long-term negative impact on global intelligence. Whether the absence of a residual marijuana effect would also be evident in more specific cognitive domains such as memory and attention remains to be ascertained.

Very few people smoke more than 5 joints a week. And, once you stop smoking five joints a week, there are no long term effects...and even if you do smoke less than five joints a week there are still no negative effects.

Svt4Him said:
We'll have to ignore the latter part I'm thinking, as anecdotal evidence really holds little weight. Personally I'd rather not be in a burning building. Perhaps falling asleep while smoking a joint was the reason the building caught on fire to begin with.

Would you like another analogy?

I would rather deal with someone having a heart attack while high than drunk. And, no -- that is assuming I am high, not the person who had the heart attack

And again, this is from what I have read & heard -- not personal experience.

zoziw · Mar 25, 2005

I would be lying if I pretended to care about a few irresponsible people.

I guess we can call this Atlas Shrugged.

How many people would have to be irresponsible before you would care?

draper · Mar 25, 2005

Svt4Him said:
And there are actually scores of research that show this to be so. As for hockey skydiving or driving a car, they don't affect your ability to learn, so it's a bit of a red herring.

Well, I posted a link (the very first one) that said that marijuana only affects ability to learn while on it...I haven't read every single link others have posted because there have been many, so if its already been done my sincerest apologies...but could you please source that?

And assuming that, as my source stated, marijuana only affects your ability to learn while you're high, then my analogy is still valid because playing hockey affects your ability to learn, as does skydiving -- while youre doing it. Try to learn something new while being cross checked or falling thousands of feet from a plane.

Svt4Him · Mar 25, 2005

Selective reading?

Whether the absence of a residual marijuana effect would also be evident in more specific cognitive domains such as memory and attention remains to be ascertained.

Plase also note your sample size is 70. Not only that but I've cited Dr's, and this is from "the Department of Psychology, Carleton University, Ottawa, Ont."

Now if you go back and read, I've highlighted some relevant points, from medical doctors regarding the medical changes caused by mary j.

And not to discredit Psychologists, they too have studied for long periods of time, and I respect quite a few of them. But you can't give this greater weight than medical info that shows the chemical changes that happen.

Oh, let me post it again:

Concentration necessary for basic academic skills is interrupted, resulting in an overall decrease in thinking ability.
The brain is made up of 113 fat. When the cell walls in brain tissue become completely saturated with THC, the brain cells die.They cannot be replaced.

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