legalism

Stryder06 said:

No time for your games today. You can answer the question below or get ignored. Your choice.

Deut 6:5
Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

That sounds like a commandment to me? Am I being legalistic if I keep that command?

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Jesus just happened to casually mention that in the Gospels

Search for 'Genesis 1:1' in the version

Young) Matthew 22:37 And Jesus said to him, `thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thine understanding--

Young) Mark 12:30 and thou shalt love the Lord thy God out of all thy heart, and out of thy soul, and out of all thine understanding, and out of all thy strength--this [is] the first command;

Young) Luke 10:27 And He answering said, thou shalt love the Lord thy God out of all thy heart, and out of all thy soul, and out of all thy strength, and out of all thy understanding, and thy neighbour as thyself.'

Reve 11:17 saying "we are thanking to Thee Lord! the God the Almighty/pantokratwr <3841> the One being and the One was [*and the One coming*]
That Thou hast taken the power of Thee the great, and Thou reign".

Legalism is ritual/holiness laws.
Legalism is also following the letter of the Torah (or even a canon of the Early Church) over the spirit of it.
Legalism is both Judaizerism and Antinomianism.

Christian orthodoxy rejects the ritual/holiness laws, follows the spirit of the Torah and canons over its literal word, and holds to grace by living faith.

Stryder06 said:

Paul says we are saved by grace not works lest any man should boast. That's why I was asking that. If someone is saved by their works, then that means they have room to boast.

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Are you talking about Eph 2:8?

“For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.” ESV

If you boast in Paul and John’s eyes you are a liar.

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

1 John 1:8 “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”

Not sure I'm following you.

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You can get to heaven without faith in Jesus or obedience to the law but heaven can’t come about without Jesus.

God has always required obedience to the law. And what exactly is the gospel of grace? Gentiles were always able to join with Israel. The requirements for them to join have changed, that's all.

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There are two kinds of Good News that was delivered at the beginning of Christianity. The Gospel of the Kingdom that Christ’s appearance ushered in and he spread with the apostles. Then there is the Gospel Paul spread that said that if you died, you would get to live again if you had faith in Jesus as your lord and savior. Salvation by faith, is salvation by Grace.

Yes you could be considered a Jew by observing the law and following customs previously but what Christianity said (Paul) was that what made the Jew wasn’t obedience to the Law or commandments but faith.

Romans 4:9 “We say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.”

Paul redefines what it means to be a Jew and he defines it as having faith not being obedient to the Law.

Keeping the law is impossible without the power of God working in you to do good works. What do you mean by "grace path"?

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I think it’s just impossible. I’m not saying you can’t do good works or God isn’t involved but it isn’t a viable strategy to go after if you are looking for eternal life. John 3:16 is the “grace path”

Stryder06 said:

You can go ahead and report, and I'll report you for every time you say I don't post scripture, and for every time you blatantly misrepresent what I say to push your own agenda.

Proper behavior period is to respectfully answer questions while simultaneously respecting the viewpoints of those you are talking with. You do neither. You ignore questions, laugh and make light of what we believe, then try to bait us in to damning you just because we say you're wrong.

The ironic part is that you are just as much of a legalist, by your own definition, as anyone else is. So yeah, last time:

Deut 6:5
Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

That sounds like a commandment to me? Am I being legalistic if I keep that commandment?

Click to expand...

It is not baiting, but I wanted to know, and you answered. You basically think countless lobster, shrimp, catifsh, non sabby Christians, are willfully sinning, you said so, hence, "damming". That is excatly what SCRIPTURE records as Peter's error, of legalism in Galatians 2.

I believe we are to live a balance between license and law.

As wicked as legalism may be, license and libertinism are horrific.

Stryder06 said:

Paul says we are saved by grace not works lest any man should boast. That's why I was asking that. If someone is saved by their works, then that means they have room to boast.


Not sure I'm following you.


God has always required obedience to the law. And what exactly is the gospel of grace? Gentiles were always able to join with Israel. The requirements for them to join have changed, that's all.

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Actually, Israel is supposed to come in the way of Abraham, while being a Gentile. By gentile faith, rom 9:30, not the other way around.

Where did the promise rest?


4:9[Does] this blessedness then [rest] on the circumcision, or also on the uncircumcision? For we say that faith has been reckoned to Abraham as righteousness.

Besides, for gentiles to "join" israel, meant circumcision, conversion, and full law compliance.



As far as the gospel of grace as Paul called it in Acts 20:24, it was something that would be perverted, if law was mixed in, as Per Gal 1.



The church does not become jewish, the church is a non racially identified unit, that is of the faith of Abraham..

Keeping the law is impossible without the power of God working in you to do good works. What do you mean by "grace path"?

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I've seen some people use the word legalism if a person is using the bible to backup what it is that they are believing...if it goes against what the other poster believe.

cyberlizard said:

anyone care to define it for me... it get's used a lot on the forum, but I have never seen anyone give it a concrete definition.

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its when we are defined and justified through law instead of through Christ.

Stryder06 said:

No time for your games today. You can answer the question below or get ignored. Your choice.

Deut 6:5
Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

That sounds like a commandment to me? Am I being legalistic if I keep that command?

Click to expand...

It can be a legalism, only undertsanding the cross alone takes away legalism.

Can't one turn 6:5 into self righteousness?

"So and so, does not love God as much as me".

By nature, we evaluate others, by how we evaluate ourselves, and so long as my bro is law minded, the ramifications are obvious.

Frogster said:

It is not baiting, but I wanted to know, and you answered. You basically think countless lobster, shrimp, catifsh, non sabby Christians, are willfully sinning, you said so, hence, "damming". That is excatly what SCRIPTURE records as Peter's error, of legalism in Galatians 2.

Click to expand...

That's not what I think. I've said that before. I said it is a sin but that doesn't mean that every person who call's themselves christian and has lobster for dinner is going to hell.

Just because I've told you doesn't mean you've either been convicted, or that you've rejected being conviction. That's the area of the Holy Spirit. God is merciful and everyone who makes it into the kingdom will be there because of the grace of God and His mercy.

Telling someone that what they are doing is wrong does not make you a legalist, but if that's how you define it then it is what it is. And no, Peter's error was hypocrisy. We've been over that already.

Frogster said:

It can be a legalism, only undertsanding the cross alone takes away legalism.

Can't one turn 6:5 into self righteousness?

"So and so, does not love God as much as me".

By nature, we evaluate others, by how we evaluate ourselves, and so long as my bro is law minded, the ramifications are obvious.

Click to expand...

You didn't answer the question. My question has nothing to do with what one could eventually do. I'm talking about following the commandment. If I love God then I'm following the commandment. If I'm following that commandment am I a legalist?

And I don't know what nature you have, but I don't evaluate anyone the same way I evaluate myself. If the bible says going left is wrong, then going left is wrong. It's that simple.

However, if someone has been deceived into believing that going left is right, and they live according to the light given them by God while going left. God's mercy covers them. It's only when someone shuns the Spirit in accepting truth that they are lost. And it is not my place to say if or when someone has shunned the Spirit. God works on people according to His timing.

Frogster said:

It can be a legalism, only undertsanding the cross alone takes away legalism.

Can't one turn 6:5 into self righteousness?

"So and so, does not love God as much as me".

By nature, we evaluate others, by how we evaluate ourselves, and so long as my bro is law minded, the ramifications are obvious.

Click to expand...

you are not going to answer Stryder06, because you don't answer anyone, however, you want everyone to answer you!

like the man said, we know your game.

i noticed that you are referencing colossians 2:14.

i take it to mean, from you, that the law was done away with according to this verse.

let's take a look at this.

Colossians 2:14-15(NKJV)
14having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
15Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

what was against us? the "handwriting of requirements".

now, of course, this "handwriting of requirements" was not the law, -wouldn't make sense. (see rom 7:7,12,14,22,25 that type of thinking don't stack up to these verses!)

let's see what the bible says about "handwriting of requirements":

Matthew 27:37(NKJV)
37And they put up over His head the accusation written against Him: THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

so, "the handwriting of requirments" is some accusation(s) against you. in Jesus' day, it was common under the roman system to have charges against you for some crime to be written out. it was literally required to have charges against you written out, so people could see what you were charged with.

in the case of the mankind, the "handwriting of requirements" that's against us is sin! not the law!

let's look further:

Psalms 51:1(NKJV)
1 Have mercy upon me, O God, According to Your lovingkindness; According to the multitude of Your tender mercies, Blot out my transgressions.

Psalms 51:9(NKJV)
9 Hide Your face from my sins, And blot out all my iniquities.

now, let's look at that verse from the kjv,

Colossians 2:14(KJV)
14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

blotting out the "charge" that was/is against us. we are charged as being sinners! (1jn 3:4)

this ties into what Jesus said:

Matthew 7:21-23(NKJV)
21&#8220;Not everyone who says to Me, &#8216;Lord, Lord,&#8217; shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22Many will say to Me in that day (notice this is a time yet future), &#8216;Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?&#8217;
23And then I will declare to them, &#8216;I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness (Strong's G458)!&#8217;

G458

&#945;&#787;&#957;&#959;&#956;&#953;&#769;&#945;

anomia

an-om-ee'-ah

From G459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness:&#8212;iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.

JohnRabbit said:

you are not going to answer Stryder06, because you don't answer anyone, however, you want everyone to answer you!

like the man said, we know your game.

i noticed that you are referencing colossians 2:14.

i take it to mean, from you, that the law was done away with according to this verse.

let's take a look at this.

Colossians 2:14-15(NKJV)
14having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
15Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

what was against us? the "handwriting of requirements".

now, of course, this "handwriting of requirements" was not the law, -wouldn't make sense. (see rom 7:7,12,14,22,25 that type of thinking don't stack up to these verses!)

let's see what the bible says about "handwriting of requirements":

Matthew 27:37(NKJV)
37And they put up over His head the accusation written against Him: THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

so, "the handwriting of requirments" is some accusation(s) against you. in Jesus' day, it was common under the roman system to have charges against you for some crime to be written out. it was literally required to have charges against you written out, so people could see what you were charged with.

in the case of the mankind, the "handwriting of requirements" that's against us is sin! not the law!

let's look further:

Psalms 51:1(NKJV)
1 Have mercy upon me, O God, According to Your lovingkindness; According to the multitude of Your tender mercies, Blot out my transgressions.

Psalms 51:9(NKJV)
9 Hide Your face from my sins, And blot out all my iniquities.

now, let's look at that verse from the kjv,

Colossians 2:14(KJV)[/B]
14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

blotting out the "charge" that was/is against us. we are charged as being sinners! (1jn 3:4)

this ties into what Jesus said:

Matthew 7:21-23(NKJV)
21&#8220;Not everyone who says to Me, &#8216;Lord, Lord,&#8217; shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22Many will say to Me in that day (notice this is a time yet future), &#8216;Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?&#8217;
23And then I will declare to them, &#8216;I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness (Strong's G458)!&#8217;

G458

&#945;&#787;&#957;&#959;&#956;&#953;&#769;&#945;

anomia

an-om-ee'-ah

From G459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness:&#8212;iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.

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lol! After being away, bro..did u ever walk into it!

You quote the "writing"?

Good..you quote the KJV..

Did you know Tyndale was instrumental in the 1611 KJV that uses "written"?

Here..from Tyndale himself, out of his translation, of Col 2:14.


Col 2:14 and hath put out the obligation that was against us, made in the law written, and that hath he taken out of the way, and hath fastened it on his cross,

Aaaaannnnnddddd, here from Paul, look how he uses "written".


2 Cor 3:3 And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Frogster said:

*snip*
Aaaaannnnnddddd, here from Paul, look how he uses "written".


2 Cor 3:3 And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

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Ya think perhaps our bro Paul had read Ezekiel? Sounds pretty similar

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

Young) Ezekiel 36:26 And I have given to you a new heart, and a new spirit I give in your midst,
And I have turned aside the heart of stone out of your flesh, and I have given to you a heart of flesh.

Have a heart

YouTube - &#x202a;Heartless - The Wizard Of Oz&#x202c;&rlm;

JohnRabbit said:

you are not going to answer Stryder06, because you don't answer anyone, however, you want everyone to answer you!

like the man said, we know your game.

i noticed that you are referencing colossians 2:14.

i take it to mean, from you, that the law was done away with according to this verse.

let's take a look at this.

Colossians 2:14-15(NKJV)
14having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
15Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

what was against us? the "handwriting of requirements".

now, of course, this "handwriting of requirements" was not the law, -wouldn't make sense. (see rom 7:7,12,14,22,25 that type of thinking don't stack up to these verses!)

let's see what the bible says about "handwriting of requirements":

Matthew 27:37(NKJV)
37And they put up over His head the accusation written against Him: THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

so, "the handwriting of requirments" is some accusation(s) against you.

Click to expand...

Whatcha talking bout Willis? The "some" was God...

Exodus 31:18
And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God. [

cyberlizard said:

anyone care to define it for me... it get's used a lot on the forum, but I have never seen anyone give it a concrete definition.


Steve

Click to expand...

The Bible defines it as adding traditions or rituals as conditions for salvation.

Frogster said:

lol! After being away, bro..did u ever walk into it!

You quote the "writing"?

Good..you quote the KJV..

Did you know Tyndale was instrumental in the 1611 KJV that uses "written"?

Here..from Tyndale himself, out of his translation, of Col 2:14.


Col 2:14 and hath put out the obligation that was against us, made in the law written, and that hath he taken out of the way, and hath fastened it on his cross,

Aaaaannnnnddddd, here from Paul, look how he uses "written".


2 Cor 3:3 And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Click to expand...

walked into it, huh? well, let's see...

Colossians 2:14
&#1573;&#1616;
Colossians 2:14 American Standard Version (ASV)
having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out of the way, nailing it to the
cross;

Colossians 2:14 Amplified Bible (AMP)
Having cancelled and blotted out and wiped away the handwriting of the note (bond) with its legal decrees and demands which was in force and stood
against us (hostile to us). This [note with its regulations, decrees, and demands] He set aside and cleared completely out of our way by nailing it to
[His] cross.
Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation

Colossians 2:14 Common English Bible (CEB)
He destroyed the record of the debt we owed, with its requirements that worked against us. He canceled it by nailing it to the cross.
Copyright © 2011 Common English Bible. All rights reserved.

Colossians 2:14 Contemporary English Version (CEV)
God wiped out the charges that were against us for disobeying the Law of Moses. He took them away and nailed them to the cross.
Copyright © 1995 by American Bible Society

Colossians 2:14 Catholic Public Domain Version (CPDV)
and wiping away the handwriting of the decree which was against us, which was contrary to us. And he has taken this away from your midst, affixing it to
the Cross.

Colossians 2:14 Douay Rheims (DRA)
Blotting out the handwriting of the decree that was against us, which was contrary to us. And he hath taken the same out of the way, fastening it to the
cross:

Colossians 2:14 English Standard Version (ESV)
by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a division of Good News Publishers

Colossians 2:14 Good News Translation (GNT)
he canceled the unfavorable record of our debts with its binding rules and did away with it completely by nailing it to the cross.
Copyright © Scripture taken from the Good News Translation (r) (Today's English Version, Second Edition) Copyright (c) 1992 American Bible Society. Used
by Permission.

Colossians 2:14 Good News Translation with Deuterocanonicals/Apocrypha (GNTD)
he canceled the unfavorable record of our debts with its binding rules and did away with it completely by nailing it to the cross.
Copyright © Scripture taken from the Good News Translation (r) (Today's English Version, Second Edition) Copyright (c) 1992 American Bible Society. Used
by Permission.

Colossians 2:14 GOD'S WORD Translation (GWT)
He did this by erasing the charges that were brought against us by the written laws God had established. He took the charges away by nailing them to the
cross.
Copyright © 1995 by God's Word to the Nations

Colossians 2:14 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
He erased the certificate of debt, with its obligations, that was against us and opposed to us, and has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the
cross.
Copyright © 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2009 by Holman Bible Publishers, Nashville Tennessee. All rights reserved

Colossians 2:14 King James Version (KJV)
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Colossians 2:14 Lexham English Bible (LEB)
having destroyed the certificate of indebtedness in ordinances against us, which was hostile to us, and removed it out of the way by nailing it to the
cross.
Copyright © 2010 Logos Bible Software. Lexham is a registered trademark of Logos Bible Software

Colossians 2:14 The Message (MSG)
the slate wiped clean, that old arrest warrant canceled and nailed to Christ's Cross.
Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 Eugene H. Peterson by NavPress Publishing

Colossians 2:14 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed
it to the cross.
Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation

Colossians 2:14 New Century Version (NCV)
He canceled the debt, which listed all the rules we failed to follow. He took away that record with its rules and nailed it to the cross.
Copyright © 2005 by Thomas Nelson, Inc. All rights reserved. Used by permission.

Colossians 2:14 New English Translation (NET)
He has destroyed what was against us, a certificate of indebtedness expressed in decrees opposed to us. He has taken it away by nailing it to the cross.
Copyright © 1996 - 2007 by Biblical Studies Press, LLC

Colossians 2:14 NIV (NIV)
having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
Copyright © Holy Bible, New International Version, NIV. Copyright 1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc. Used by permission. All rights reserved
worldwide.

Colossians 2:14 NIV 1984 (NIV84)
having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by Biblica, Inc. Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.

Colossians 2:14 New International Version Anglicized (NIVUK)
having cancelled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.
Copyright © 1979, 1984 by International Bible Society ©, Used by Permission. All rights reserved worldwide

Colossians 2:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to
the cross.
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc. All rights reserved. Used by permission.

Colossians 2:14 New Living Translation (NLT)
He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross.
Copyright © Holy Bible, New Living Translation copyright 1996, 2004, 2007 by Tyndale house Foundation. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers,
Inc., Carol Stream, Illinois, 60188. All rights reserved.

Kehilah in Colossae 2:14 Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
Having erased the handsigned sefer of guilt choiv (debt), the heavenly indictment against us in the maleh chukat haTorah (full statute requirement of
the Torah), which was against us. Moshiach has done away with this opposing record, having nailed it to Moshiach's Etz.
Copyright © 2002,2003,2008,2010,2011 by Artists for Israel International, Inc. Used by permission. All rights reserved.

Colossians 2:14 TNIV (TNIV)
having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
Copyright © Holy Bible, Today's New International Version, TNIV. Copyright 2001, 2005 by Biblica, Inc. Used by permission. All rights reserved
worldwide.

Colossians 2:14 World English Bible (WEB)
wiping out the handwriting in ordinances which was against us; and he has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross;

there are some translations that seem to think that it was God's law nailed to the cross. that in itself should make one pause (rom 7:7,12,14).

as for:

2 Cor 3:3 And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

kind of sounds like this, don't it?:

Jeremiah 31:33(NKJV)
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

do you want to hazard a guess as to what law jer 31:33 is referring to?

(to be continued)

JohnRabbit said:

well, let's see...

Colossians 2:14
&#1573;&#1616;
there are some translations that seem to think that it was God's law nailed to the cross. that in itself should make one pause.

(to be continued)

Click to expand...

Why don't we just start a thread on it

LittleLambofJesus said:

Why don't we just start a thread on it

Click to expand...

Or better yet, perhaps we sweet talk a staff member to have this thread re-opened

http://www.christianforums.com/t6775246/
Col 2 and the Law
25th January 2008

*snip OP:

Col. 2:14 is one verse people love to use to try to say that Paul did away with God&#8217;s Law. We need to understand what this verse is really talking about.
The Romans nailed two things to the cross 1) They nailed Jesus to the cross. 2) They nailed a sign stating that He was the king of the Jews to the cross. (i.e. the charge against Him) But Paul says, (figuratively) that &#8220;the handwriting of requirements that was against us&#8221; was also nailed to the cross.
This is the only place in the NT that these Greek words (handwriting of requirements) are used. This is a legal document, hand written by the criminal, stating the charges against him, (in our case the charge is that we have sinned; Ro. 3:23) and the debt that he owes. (our debt or penalty is death; Ro. 6:23.) This is what was nailed to the cross, not God&#8217;s Law. Read &#8220;Friberg Lexicon&#8221; and also &#8220;Vine&#8217;s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words&#8221; for a further explanation.

LittleLambofJesus said:

Why don't we just start a thread on it

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i think it's in order, will do when i get off work!

or someone else can and i'll join in.