Left Behind series -How Accurate?

[Bobgf]

It looks like Ezekiel's temple is built after the division of the land among the tribes because an area of the land for the holy city and the sanctuary is sectioned off for that purpose. They would have to measure and divide the land in order to know where to put the sanctuary, right?


Is it possible that after Israel's neighbors and the northern army are destroyed that Israel realizes God has saved them, there's a mass exodus to Israel and the land is divided up in preparation for the building of the temple which is then built and which the anti-christ desecrates? During the hour of judgment and wrath, there are 144,000 of Israel sealed and two witnesses testifying which appear to also have something to do with the building of the temple because of the references to Zarubabel in Zechariah 4.

Well first we've got to remember the apparent topological land discrepancies between Zech 14 and Ezek 48.

Any comprehensive formulation of eschatology must include all of prophecy. We can't just ignore those passages we don't understand, but we've got to make allowances for these idiosyncrasies in our overall evaluation of eschatology.

Generally people assume we go almost directly from the millennium to the new heaven and new earth of Rev 21. No consideration is given for the necessity of any lengthy intervening time interval. But when all of prophecy is taken into consideration, then it soon becomes apparent that things aren't quiet that simple.

In the new heaven and new earth of Rev 21, we see that by then, that all sin, death and procreation have all been eliminated -- they no longer exist. But we see that sin, death and procreation still do exist in the new heaven and earth of Isaiah 65:17-25; in the generations of Psalms 105:8-11; and in the Ezekiel restoration of Ezek chap 45 thru 48. Some people have tried to place Ezek 45-48 in the new heaven and earth of Rev 21, but it wont fit there because of the sin and death issue.

The topographical arrangements of Israel's land in Zech 14 and Ezek 48 are totally incompatible. Ezekiel's land distribution even has Judah's territory placed NORTH of the temple and city area -- a complete reversal of things. In my estimation, the only way to establish compatibility between Zech 14 and Ezek 48 is to place them in different ages. I think perhaps Peter gives hints of another age between this present evil age and the coming sin free age of Rev 21.

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, the heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.(2Peter 3:10)

That may be the end of this present evil age with the renewal of the earth by fire?

Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. (2Peter 3:11-12)

That may be the end of an intervening age with the complete passing away of this earth and sin and death.?

That's the best I can come up with to establish compatibility between Zech 14 and Ezek 48.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Well first we've got to remember the apparent topological land discrepancies between Zech 14 and Ezek 48.

Any comprehensive formulation of eschatology must include all of prophecy. We can't just ignore those passages we don't understand, but we've got to make allowances for these idiosyncrasies in our overall evaluation of eschatology.

Generally people assume we go almost directly from the millennium to the new heaven and new earth of Rev 21. No consideration is given for the necessity of any lengthy intervening time interval. But when all of prophecy is taken into consideration, then it soon becomes apparent that things aren't quiet that simple.

In the new heaven and new earth of Rev 21, we see that by then, that all sin, death and procreation have all been eliminated -- they no longer exist. But we see that sin, death and procreation still do exist in the new heaven and earth of Isaiah 65:17-25; in the generations of Psalms 105:8-11; and in the Ezekiel restoration of Ezek chap 45 thru 48. Some people have tried to place Ezek 45-48 in the new heaven and earth of Rev 21, but it wont fit there because of the sin and death issue.

The topographical arrangements of Israel's land in Zech 14 and Ezek 48 are totally incompatible. Ezekiel's land distribution even has Judah's territory placed NORTH of the temple and city area -- a complete reversal of things. In my estimation, the only way to establish compatibility between Zech 14 and Ezek 48 is to place them in different ages. I think perhaps Peter gives hints of another age between this present evil age and the coming sin free age of Rev 21.

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, the heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.(2Peter 3:10)

That may be the end of this present evil age with the renewal of the earth by fire?

Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. (2Peter 3:11-12)

That may be the end of an intervening age with the complete passing away of this earth and sin and death.?

That's the best I can come up with to establish compatibility between Zech 14 and Ezek 48.

No need for an intervening age. There is the millenium where there is still death and disobedience while the "law goes out from Zion, the word of the Lord from Jerusalem". THEN comes the GWT judgment, followed by New Heavens, New Earth.

Isn't it possible that after the invading army is destroyed (which includes an earthquake), that the land (now bigger due to plundering the invaders) is divided among the tribes and the new sanctuary is built which the anti-christ defiles prior to Christ's return to rule and reign for the millenium?

The millenium has no devil but still has death and disobedience as well as sacrifices and justice and peace.

The New Heavens, New Earth will have no more death...no more sacrifices, just righteousness and fellowship with God.

 

[Bobgf]

No need for an intervening age. There is the millenium where there is still death and disobedience while the "law goes out from Zion, the word of the Lord from Jerusalem". THEN comes the GWT judgment, followed by New Heavens, New Earth.

OK we know the millennium last aprox 1000 years and has sin, death and procreation.
Is this the new heaven and new earth of Isaiah 65:17-25 with sin, death and procreation?



And what about the GWT judgment. How long do you see that lasting,
and will there be any sin, death, or procreation during this time?

Isn't it possible that after the invading army is destroyed (which includes an earthquake), that the land (now bigger due to plundering the invaders) is divided among the tribes and the new sanctuary is built which the anti-christ defiles prior to Christ's return to rule and reign for the millenium?

Which topography do you see implemented during this time interval -- Zech 14 topography or Ezek 48 topography ?

The millenium has no devil but still has death and disobedience as well as sacrifices and justice and peace.

The New Heavens, New Earth will have no more death...no more sacrifices, just righteousness and fellowship with God.

Agreed.

Not looking for argument, just trying to get a better idea of your eschatological views. Thanks

 

[HisdaughterJen]

OK we know the millennium last aprox 1000 years and has sin, death and procreation.
Is this the new heaven and new earth of Isaiah 65:17-25 with sin, death and procreation?

No, the New Heaven and New earth have no death...but I'm wondering about the procreation part. There's a big universe to fill. Adam and Eve were supposed to fill the earth and subdue it.

And what about the GWT judgment. How long do you see that lasting,
and will there be any sin, death, or procreation during this time?

Well, I'm wondering if the GWT judgment happens in a spiritual place...there is a massive resurrection and judgment, separation of "sheep" from "goats". As far as how long it lasts...it's possible that it happens outside of time...at least that's how I picture it since there is no place for "earth and sky" at that event.

Which topography do you see implemented during this time interval -- Zech 14 topography or Ezek 48 topography ?

Well, I'm having a hard time picturing the topography. You'll have to show me what you mean.

I mean, Ezekiel 45-48 is very descriptive...land measured off for the sanctuary (temple), land measured off for the holy city, land measured for each tribe, etc.

But Zechariah...I'm not seeing much in regards to topography.

Agreed.

Not looking for argument, just trying to get a better idea of your eschatological views. Thanks

No, I didn't think you were looking for an argument at all. If I come across as unapproachable, please know that I am hoping to be proven wrong (with scriptures) because I'm just digging and seeking. I'm actually very approachable and willing to listen and learn especially when scriptures prove it. I'm really a very quiet and reserved person but VERY passionate about God and I think it comes across as a boldness which takes people by surprise.