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Leaving the UMC - finding it apostate

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Jeremiah's Calling

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Please pray for me as I search for a new church / denomination, one that actually believes the Bible. I am announcing that I am leaving the United Methodist "church" as I find it is becoming apostate. In another thread elsewhere on CF I just completely wreaked havoc on liberal theology. Finding in UM churhces in life over the past year and in posts here that too many have no clue what repentance is or even balk at the idea. So... turning them over....

Sigh. I need a good Bible-believing church that fears God and preaches Truth. Evangelical, KJV.
Please pray the Lord will guide my search. Thank you.

Having read the sticky note on the definition of fundamentalism - i fit 101%
 
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Stephen Kendall

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Please pray for me as I search for a new church / denomination, one that actually believes the Bible. I am announcing that I am leaving the United Methodist "church" as I find it is becoming apostate. In another thread elsewhere on CF I just completely wreaked havoc on liberal theology. Finding in UM churhces in life over the past year and in posts here that too many have no clue what repentance is or even balk at the idea. So... turning them over....

Sigh. I need a good Bible-believing church that fears God and preaches Truth. Evangelical, KJV.
Please pray the Lord will guide my search. Thank you.

Having read the sticky note on the definition of fundamentalism - i fit 101%

Be a doer of the Gospel and a Jesus Believing & obeying soul. The Gospel is in the last part of your Bible. It is the summary & summation (fulfilment). You can follow God through the Gospel and Jesus. I can't firgure out why people search the whole Bible for guidance when God spoke through Jesus and so we must obey his son's Gospel.

You aren't going to find exactly what you are seeking. Denominations are influenced by the world and will not be perfect. Try a nondenominational one, but here too they lean a bit away, but maybe not too far from Christ's teachings (also those through his disciples in the New Testament). I use to go also to the United Methodist. I may still go once and awhile. My wife's church is Seventh Day Adventists. I love all Christians, even Jehovah Witnesses. This will all end soon. We are imperfect and so will our Churches also be. The idea is to be as perfect as you can in being a follower & believer of Jesus Christ, but even more the salvational doer of his Gospel. To do what Jesus said in his Gospel is to be his and the only way to prove that you believe in him and follow him. I try to inform other Christians of the authority of Jesus and his Gospel. I leave the doctrines & theologies of Church to where they belong in their dividing denominations. I support and abhere to Jesus' Gospel alone. I am amazed at the confusion of many to run after their own pet add-on or artifical Gospels. I will follow Jesus personally and leave the fusing to where it came from. Jesus plainly states for us to love our enemies. We will be moral and upright, but we will not hate people who aren't. We will be known as followers of Jesus by our love of each other and even of all (loving our enemies covers about everything). Have a wonderful day.
 
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Please pray for me as I search for a new church / denomination, one that actually believes the Bible. I am announcing that I am leaving the United Methodist "church" as I find it is becoming apostate. In another thread elsewhere on CF I just completely wreaked havoc on liberal theology. Finding in UM churhces in life over the past year and in posts here that too many have no clue what repentance is or even balk at the idea. So... turning them over....

Sigh. I need a good Bible-believing church that fears God and preaches Truth. Evangelical, KJV.
Please pray the Lord will guide my search. Thank you.

Having read the sticky note on the definition of fundamentalism - i fit 101%

Welcome. Is there a reason you list KJV in your search for a new church? The Dake KJV was my first Study Bible I read and thoroughly used. Now I use multiple translations (NASB, ESV, HCSB, NIV, et al) but still hold the KJV in high esteem.
 
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MatthewDiscipleofGod

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Please pray for me as I search for a new church / denomination, one that actually believes the Bible. I am announcing that I am leaving the United Methodist "church" as I find it is becoming apostate. In another thread elsewhere on CF I just completely wreaked havoc on liberal theology. Finding in UM churhces in life over the past year and in posts here that too many have no clue what repentance is or even balk at the idea. So... turning them over....

Sigh. I need a good Bible-believing church that fears God and preaches Truth. Evangelical, KJV.
Please pray the Lord will guide my search. Thank you.

Having read the sticky note on the definition of fundamentalism - i fit 101%

You can look for a church using this directory.

Alabama
 
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Jeremiah's Calling

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The reason I listed KJV is this: Jesus is NOT the One and Only Son of God. He is the only begotten Son of God. In Genesis: The sons of God married the daughters of men. In Job: There came a day when the sons of God presented themselves before the Lord. In Luke: the son of Adam, the son of God. I too am God's son.

I am a begotten son of my biological father. I have two adopted brothers. If begotten means only, then my brothers are disowned. If we say the Bible says "one and only" not only are WE denying our own salvation, we say that God's Word, that is, that God Himself denies us. Jesus is the only begotten son, not the one and only.

Plus the phrase "only begotten Son of God" declares His preciousness, His humanity and His divinity. Calling Him One and Only leaves open the question of His humanity, and thus the validity of His experience on earth and the effectiveness of His death on the cross.

This is why I say KJV. If there is another translation that gets it right, feel free to let me know.
 
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BigNorsk

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You are getting close on the begotten thing but no cigar just yet.

There are a couple of different words translated as begotten in the KJV. The most common is monogenes, and so we see it in such verses as John 3:16 in reference to Jesus and so we memorized it as his only begotten son.

Thing is, there's actually a problem with translating it that way, the primary one being it's not quite right. It adds something. For instance those who say first there was the Father, and then he begot Jesus, such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, hang a lot onto that translation.

Here's the example in the KJV that shows it to be wrong.

Heb 11:17 KJV
(17)
By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

See the problem? Isaac was not Abraham's only begotten son, never was, Ishmael was begotten by Abraham and would, for a time, have been his only begotten.

This verse is actually one of the ones Muslims look at and conclude the Jews changed the scriptures, and why they say it was Ishmael that was going to be sacrificed. (Just an aside)

Now if we are going to do it rightly, there is indeed one word that translates monogenes very accurately, it would be "unique" or "one of a kind".

The common use of "only" today doesn't really go far enough and leaves itself open to misinterpretation again, as you point out. I think it must be the situations that people speak of an only child as the foundation of that translation.

Now there is one translation I know of that actually has had the guts to go all the way to a correct rendering of monogenes as "unique" and they've been soundly criticised for it. That would be the International Standard Version, ISV.

Heb 11:17 ISV
(17)
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered Isaac. The man who had received the promises was about to offer his unique son,

See how nicely it works. Isaac was not the only begotten; however, he indeed was unique. He was the one promised son.

And so too Jesus is unique, one of a kind, the promised son.

As far as I can tell the translational problem goes back to about the year 400 when the Latin form of the Nicene used "unigenitum" for monogenes, which if you translated unigenitum it indeed would be only begotten. And Jerome used unigenitum for monogenes in the Latin Vulgate translation and that seems to be the reason "only begotten" has had so much momentum for all these centuries.

It goes back to a couple related words and we can even see the different roots in English.

For instance we see genus, which is refering to kind. Monogenes, really is simply mono meaning one, and a root meaning kind, one of a kind.

The mistaken root is seen in generation. So when you generate something you produce it and that's what only begotten would mean, one generated.

The Nicene creed we see use the monogenes and then try to instantly correct the wrong interpretation with the before all worlds or before time phrase. Jesus was not begotten as you or I were begotten.

Anyway translate monogenes as unique and a very interesting thing happens. The references to Jesus being begotten come down to a couple, like when he was raised from the dead, but there really isn't any referring to before the incarnation.

So anyway, while you have some pretty good reasoning going your way, I think you just haven't become aware of the whole issue. It's really easy when we see the liberals and their desire to throw out scripture and substitute themselves as the authorities to go too far in what we hold onto. I would hold onto scripture but I wouldn't specifically hold onto the KJV it's an imperfect translation too as all are.
 
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Jeremiah's Calling

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Not to be unChristian but blah, blah, blah.
I speak fact. And I speak from experience. Jesus is NOT the one and only son. He is the only begotten. I too am a son. I know Jesus. He knows me. I know who I am and who my Father is. My Father claims me openly and joyously along with Jesus.

Further, Solomon is also called the son of God.

Begotten refers to His human birth, not to some "Johnny-come-lately-ness" of His character. Jesus is the Great I AM (blessed be He) begotten as human. "Hear O Israel. The LORD, our God, the LORD is one." The begottenness of Jesus also carries with it the idea of husband and wife becoming one as expressed in each child. God consumated His marriage to Israel via the virgin Mary. There is plenty in that theologically to discuss for ages.

I am sick to the Nth degree of arguing with "Christians." I write off anyone who justifies error. "One and only" is error. That is why I say KJV.

Besides I was answering a question, not inviting endless debate. END. OF. DISCUSSION.

Thank you. The prickly one has spoken.
 
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Jeremiah's Calling

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Be a doer of the Gospel and a Jesus Believing & obeying soul. ...I leave the doctrines & theologies of Church to where they belong in their dividing denominations.

That is very good advice. Thank you! :)

(But, JWs are not recongized as Christians because they reject the deity of Jesus.) :(
 
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Jeremiah's Calling

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If you would point out where I justified error, I'd appreciate it. I in no way said that "one and only" is correct.

Blah, blah, blah.


Didn't say you did, did I. Just warning.
Nor did I speak error, negating the need for the lecture. Nor was I giving an exhaustive dissertation. I was answering a simple question simply.

But thanks anyway. And I apologize for my rudeness but you catch me with sword drawn, fresh from battle. I'm rather wary at this spiritual moment. I pray your wound isn't too serious.


BUT on to good things: I visited a So. Baptist church this morn and really enjoyed it. Plus, the preacher used the KJV. And the message was a confirmation of my recent sermon to the UMs. (Much needed! Thank You, Adoni!) The music was good too. I think I shall, Lord willing, visit again next Sunday.

KJV, best edition yet. Go KJV! :p
 
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nChrist

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This is an extremely rude and hateful thread - certainly not the kind that results in friendship or fellowship. Um - why is it that so many KJV onlyists fit this same pattern of militant behavior? I might have to stop using the KJV again because I don't like the association. I suspect that someone might become popular on ignore lists.

The Holy Bible wasn't written in English, and there are numerous translations as good as or better than the KJV.
 
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Auburn88

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Please pray for me as I search for a new church / denomination, one that actually believes the Bible. I am announcing that I am leaving the United Methodist "church" as I find it is becoming apostate. In another thread elsewhere on CF I just completely wreaked havoc on liberal theology. Finding in UM churhces in life over the past year and in posts here that too many have no clue what repentance is or even balk at the idea. So... turning them over....

Sigh. I need a good Bible-believing church that fears God and preaches Truth. Evangelical, KJV.
Please pray the Lord will guide my search. Thank you.

Having read the sticky note on the definition of fundamentalism - i fit 101%

I think that's great! I wish more and more Bible believing Christians would get out of the UMC. It makes me sad to say that, given that I grew up in the UMC and that my grandparents actually founded the UMC in our little town and the one I grew up in.

But the sad thing now is that they were once such a great voice for the Gospel and for Biblical truths but now if you go into a Methodist church, all you hear is humanism, moralism, universalism, plus the issues with women pretending to be pastors, abortion, and homosexuality.

It's good that you were able to walk away. Leaving a church, even one that is such a doctrinal trainwreck as most Methodist churches are today, can be extremely difficult.

I'll be praying for you, that you'll find a good church.
 
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Jeremiah's Calling

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This is an extremely rude and hateful thread - certainly not the kind that results in friendship or fellowship. Um - why is it that so many KJV onlyists fit this same pattern of militant behavior? I might have to stop using the KJV again because I don't like the association. I suspect that someone might become popular on ignore lists.

The Holy Bible wasn't written in English, and there are numerous translations as good as or better than the KJV.


Warning: don't start anything, there won't be anything.

Why is it that "any ol' thing will pass as a Bible"-ists and "anti-KJV-only-"ists make "KJV onlyists" feel so defensive all the time? Talk about rude.

Don't start anything, there won't be anything.

This isn't a "KJV" debate thread. Take that argument elsewhere please. Someone merely asked me why I like it. It was a valid question. I answered. Someone else commented on that which needed no comment. I snapped. I have apologized to that person personally. It doesn't need your rude comments. Thanks.
 
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Jeremiah's Calling

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I think that's great! I wish more and more Bible believing Christians would get out of the UMC. It makes me sad to say that, given that I grew up in the UMC and that my grandparents actually founded the UMC in our little town and the one I grew up in.

But the sad thing now is that they were once such a great voice for the Gospel and for Biblical truths but now if you go into a Methodist church, all you hear is humanism, moralism, universalism, plus the issues with women pretending to be pastors, abortion, and homosexuality.

It's good that you were able to walk away. Leaving a church, even one that is such a doctrinal trainwreck as most Methodist churches are today, can be extremely difficult.

I'll be praying for you, that you'll find a good church.


Thank you. And do also pray for me about my tendency to be so defensive.
 
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Jeremiah's Calling

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I'm already on it, as well as for some of the misconceptions you have about God's relationship with Mary and with Israel.

Just one possible way to view things. As I said in that post, that's something that can be discussed endlessly.

I try to be painstakingly orthodox in my theology.

But I will eagerly thank you for your prayers otherwise.
 
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Auburn88

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Sweety, that's not heresy.

"Sweety"? Really? You call other men sweety?

I try to be painstakingly orthodox in my theology. I'll thank you to never call me heretic again.

Then don't go around saying things like "God consumated His marriage to Israel through Mary" and you shouldn't have that problem.

You don't have everything perfectly understood either.

True, but the difference is I'm not called to have perfect doctrine. The Bible only calls me to have sound doctrine. There's a big difference. I'm not the one spouting heresy.
 
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GraceSeeker

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Please pray for me as I search for a new church / denomination, one that actually believes the Bible. I am announcing that I am leaving the United Methodist "church" as I find it is becoming apostate. In another thread elsewhere on CF I just completely wreaked havoc on liberal theology. Finding in UM churhces in life over the past year and in posts here that too many have no clue what repentance is or even balk at the idea. So... turning them over....

Sigh. I need a good Bible-believing church that fears God and preaches Truth. Evangelical, KJV.
Please pray the Lord will guide my search. Thank you.

Having read the sticky note on the definition of fundamentalism - i fit 101%

And we in that other thread ("Conservative Methodists") wish Jeremiah well as he seeks for a church he can be comfortable in. He is right, the views that he espouses -- KJV only, thinking that a sermon preached out of Luke 15 must speak against his particular list of favorite sins to hate or it isn't biblical, and a few other things on his lithmus test -- don't fit well in the United Methodist Church. If that makes the UMC liberal, then I'm a liberal. But I am sure that there are congregations that Jeremiah will fit in and if they seek to brand all United Methodists as antinomian heretics they're certainly free to do so. But as for being apostate, I refer you to our denominational website's reflections on our faith and our Wesleyan theological heritage. We hardly fit the definition of apostate just because we aren't reactionary.


I bid you peace.
 
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