Leaving Our Flesh Behind

[riverpastor]

Exactly. We are ALREADY seated with Him. I am in the heavenly realm right now.

As I meditate and enter into that realm by faith and through this Grace that we are speaking of, I can see and hear and feel and travel through and smell the Kingdom of God. I can see the Lord. I can see myself as I really am. I can see things that the Lord has provided for me through Covenant.

If I continuously focus on the visible, earthly realm, then I will exhibit this life as my grace. IOW, the grace by which I live will not be the empowerment of the Lord, but it will be the grace of the world which leads unto death and incompleteness. I will rely on what I can see with my natural eyes and natural ears and natural senses alone.

Paul exhorts us time and time again to look at the invisible realm and into the eternal realm and to those things which are above.

He tells us to LOOK at that which we cannot actually see with our eyeballs. He would not have told us to do as such if there were not a way to do so.

Paul also tells us, "As you have received Christ, so walk in Him."

How did we receive Him? By faith through Grace.

How should EVERY SINGLE DAY of our lives be lived? By faith through Grace.

 

[Jimmy West]

Then has He failed in saving us?
Our imperfection has nothing to do with our being saved. The reason we need to be saved is because of our imperfection. Our imperfection is caused by free choice, which remains after we are saved. So, how can you say that when Jesus saved us, it made us perfect? Was our free choice taken away?

I am not a mere man. I am a new creature, different from the old. Already (PAST TENSE) made perfect in the Father's eyes through the ALREADY COMPLETED work of Jesus.
Maybe you are not a "mere man", but you are still a man and subject to the same inherit imperfection. Our accepting Jesus does not make us perfect in the eyes of god. It makes us saved, but perfection is something we need to strive for.



I didn't say it was an "automatic" thing. I said we must renew our minds to the perfection that we are ALREADY in Christ Jesus.

Paul tells us in Colossians that in Christ we "are complete." Not some future event, but "ARE", meaning right here and right now.
It means that In/through Christ, we have become members of God's Kingdom and thus our future is sealed.

Paul doesn't say that in Christ we "will be" complete. We are a finished product ALREADY in spirit.
You keep saying that Paul says this and Paul says that, but, what does God say? There are many things that Paul said that applied to a specific group of people at a specific time, relating to a specific situation. Do all of those things apply to us? An example is his words pertaining to woman in Church and wearing a covering on the head. The difficulty lies in deciding which of those things applies to us today. That may be impossible.

ONCE AGAIN, what needs to change is not our "behavior" but our belief in the reality that already is in the Spirit concerning what Christ has already made us to be.

GRACE, as inrsoul has explained, is the effectual working of God's Spirit within us to bring about this NEW LIFE which we already have.
God's spirit can not work in some of us as some of us are still carnal in nature and thus are unable to even hear the Spirit of God.

NEW LIFE
We are not working TOWARD it, we should be working FROM it!

Your gentle kindness is appreciated.

 

[inrsoul]

Bro Jimmy, are you suggesting our flesh is bigger than God's grace??

What does this verse say?
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified.

It says that we have been perfected once we have been sanctified. Who is sanctified?? We, who believe in Him, are;

Hebrews 10:10 By this will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Yes, our flesh is not perfect, but our spirit is. Do not deny that. Things that are of the spirit is a reality; if you would see it as your reality, the Spirit will bear witness to the truth that you have believed. For the Spirit is also the Spirit of Truth!

 

[riverpastor]

Thanks Jimmy, or was that sarcastic???

I would like for you to know my testimony, of which I am not afraid to give.

For years I struggled, as you say, to strive for perfection.

Paul did say this (yes, I will use Paul again): Be ye perfect.

How can he say such a thing?

(Wait, are you saying that we don't need the revelation that Paul was given concerning our new life in Christ???)

Anyway, I strived and struggled to change my behavior in order to be good and perfect towards God.

I struggled with an addiction to pornography, and had from the time I was in Jr. High. I lived a frustrated life, because I was keeping my focus on "my sin" instead of focusing on my righteousness which is found in Christ Jesus.

I fought sin. I hated sin. I preached against sin. All the while, performing sin.

Freedom came when I realized that God had already made me, in spirit, what I was striving to become.

I had believed and focused on what I believed to be the truth about my life. "God said I was a new creature, but I am still a sinner saved by grace."

As long as I saw myself as that sinner and believed that I was controlled by my old nature, what do you think I did? If you're guess is that I sinned and my behavior followed the pattern of my belief system, then you're right.

Striving got me to one place: FRUSTRATION!!!

You don't "act" towards the belief system. You "act" BECAUSE of the belief system.
I acted like a sinner, because I believed myself to still be in accordance with that old nature in my spirit.

When I found freedom, it was because I learned that I had died to the old nature, that it was crucified with Christ and I was buried with Him by baptism into His death. So that I would also walk in the newnees of life with Him.

If you need me to, I will do an expository on Romans 6 and show you that we are already new creatures in Christ.

Once again, you might have read too much into my post earlier. I never stated that living the new life is an AUTOMATIC thing.

BUT, it is also NOT a striving thing. To tell others that they need to strive is to bring them to a place of bondage in the spirit. It would be like heaping burdens upon them after they have come to freedom in Christ.

This body of mine is now reserved to righteousness.

I reckon myself to be dead indeed therefore unto sin BUT ALIVE UNTO GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST my Lord.

I've been in these trenches, man. I know what I'm talking about. And as I teach these same principles of freedom to others dealing with this addiction to pornography and other types of addictions, I have seen them, one by one, get set free in the Truth.

I have freedom without striving. I have freedom in resting in the completed work of Jesus Christ.

 

[Jimmy West]

Bro Jimmy, are you suggesting our flesh is bigger than God's grace??

What does this verse say?
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified.

It says that we have been perfected once we have been sanctified. Who is sanctified?? We, who believe in Him, are;

Hebrews 10:10 By this will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Yes, our flesh is not perfect, but our spirit is. Do not deny that. Things that are of the spirit is a reality; if you would see it as your reality, the Spirit will bear witness to the truth that you have believed. For the Spirit is also the Spirit of Truth!

Not at all. But God's grace does not take our flesh away. If that were true, none of us would be living a fleshy life. Keep in mind that there are all kinds of Christians. There all Good Christians and Bad christians. Just because a person is a Christian, that doesn't mean that he or she is a good person. All it means is that they are saved. What do I mean by the term; "bad Christian"? There are many Christians who are saved, but that is all they have. They have their salvation, but have no relationship with jesus. They go to church on Sunday, and give that day to the Lord. The other six days, they are filled with sin and forget all about God. Those are who I refer to as "Bad Christians" Maybe, "bad" is not a good choice of word to use in this case. Maybe I should have called them: "Not so good Christians". So, my point is that If God's grace did take our flesh away, that there would be no "Not so good Christians".

 

[riverpastor]

Jimmy,

I will say that Christians lack the Truth that will set them free.

I was never led to the Truth or taught it from the pulpit.

YOu know how I stumbled upon this freedom. TOTALLY, 100%, in the Spirit.

I encountered the Lord and experienced His Glory. And when I did, I realized that I was a new creature. I realized that the porn-addicted man that I used to be had been carried away and laid in the tomb with Jesus.

I was IN HIM when He was crucified. I was IN HIM when He died. I was IN HIM when He was buried.

THE GOOD NEWS is that I, the new nature - new creature - was raised with HIM. I was IN HIM when He resurrected. I was IN HIM when He ascended into the Heavenly Realm. I am IN HIM now!

I live from that perspective. I am free from sin. I am free from the bondage of the flesh.

As long as my perspective was inferior, I remained to be what you called a "bad Christian". Was I bad because leaders in the church didn't teach me the way of Truth. They all told me to strive as well. They all told me that I had to work hard to stay in God's good graces. They told me how much my life disappointed God.

What kind of freedom and perfection is that???

 

[inrsoul]

True, the grace of God does not take our bodies away, but if not by GRACE then by what? Works? The requirement of works have driven people far far away from God. For no one can keep what is "unkeepable" by God's standards then, and what makes you think we can do that right now?

There is no requirement for those who believe! You only need to believe! How do you keep Christians from running away from God? Preach to them the GRACE of God! That is what keeps people from turning to their flesh! If you know your righteousness and your perfection that you have in Christ would you not walk therein? It is the LOVE of God that constrains you, not the letter of the law that was engraven on stones. It is the grace that we do not deserve and yet given to us freely! Christians who have no knowledge of the grace of God and the righteousness that they have in Christ will flee hearing that they need to "maintain" their salvation through their works, because they know they cannot and will not succeed. We have been perfected through and through, what is of the spirit will become fleshly reality, if we continue to walk in the knowledge of righteousness; a GRACE gift!

 

[riverpastor]

Yes, RIGHTEOUSNESS will actually MANIFEST through our flesh!

 

[Jimmy West]

Yes, RIGHTEOUSNESS will actually MANIFEST through our flesh!

Ok, I give up. You have worn me out.
I'm sorry, but I feel like I am talking to children, so I offer you this:

1 Corinthians 3:1-9 (NIV)
Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men?

 

[Godzchild]

Freedom came when I realized that God had already made me, in spirit, what I was striving to become.

Oh wow! Key point - right there! There lies the difference!

 

[Godzchild]

1 Corinthians 3:1-9 (NIV)
Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men?

I think I address this on the other page. I said that as we go along and grow in Christ and mature.....etc etc

I believe one eventually realises what 'riverpastor' has said in his testimony and it's then that they move from milk to meat and it will show. I believe the Holy Spirit is what leads us to this 'maturity' in Christ. This has definetly happened to me.

 

[riverpastor]

Amen, Godzchild. Thank you so much.

Jimmy, there's no point in throwing your hands up. This isn't a contest.
BTW, you also do not need to be condescending, as though you were addressing mere children. Why do you do as such? Does it make you feel superior to say such things?

You're not offering milk. But it's not meat either.

How do you combat "sin consciousness" in a Christian?

You have determined that you would tell others to strive for perfection. My question would be how do you propose to do this?

inrsoul and I have given you what we would and have given to others to deter this and to see others walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh. What do you tell someone in order for them to walk in the Spirit???


I don't know if your scripture was aimed at saying that we needed spiritual milk or that we weren't ready for the meat that you believe you are offering.

My experience speaks louder than any words thrown at me here. I wouldn't trade my freedom for any kind of frustration!

BTW, are you quoting Paul in the context of what he was having to deal with specifically in the Corinthian church?

If I'm not "striving" to be perfect, then what do you think I'm doing?

I have nothing to prove to the Lord. He made a Covenant Everlasting with Himself. He shed His OWN blood and sacrificed His Own Life. He offered Himself to Himself and accepted His Sacrifice. He raised Himself from the dead and glorified Himself in heaven and in earth. He ascended to take His place as all Authority and Power in the heavenlies.

What more could we do to perfect the work that He has already done BY HIMSELF?

 

[Father Rick]

Mans nature becomes sinful while he is a child. The environment that he lives in, the way he is raised influences and actually causes his sinful nature.

Jimmy...

If this were really true, then the best thing we could do would be to kill all the children before they have a chance to develop a sinful nature.

By killing them, we would ensure them a place in heaven...





Obviously, there's a problem with that--which is why scripture teaches something totally different!

 

[inrsoul]

Yes RP...

And that being said, to really "leave the flesh behind" is to put yourself in Jesus. Abba just really wants you Bro. Jimmy, me and everyone us here in CF and all those who believe around the world to REIGN IN LIFE! In this LIFE not just in the by and by, the future, right here, right now!

Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offense death reigned by one, much more they who receive abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by One, Jesus Christ.

 

[riverpastor]

Amen, inrsoul, ty.

Fr. Rick, I must have rushed through that post and not seen that...
incredible!

 

[Godzchild]

What more could we do to perfect the work that He has already done BY HIMSELF?

That's just it isn't it. Nothing can compare. Nothing that our feeble hands and inferior minds can do to make more perfect what he has already done. To suggest such a thing is quite arrogant actually. When I think of trying such a thing I start feeling puffed up and superior...more superior than the blood perhaps? I don't know, but whatever it is, God has a way of humbling me and bringing me down a peg or two and reminding me exactly who's work is it that is perfectly capable of saving my soul and how needing I am of a saviour!

 

[Joy]

There are 2 contrasting teachings here

And it's clear which one is life-giving.

 

[Strong in Him]

There are 2 contrasting teachings here

And it's clear which one is life-giving.

Yes and that's because - and I'll try to be gentle about this, but I believe it to be true - Jimmy's teaching is from himself. Ok, I know that you are convinced, Jimmy, that it is God who is speaking, maybe even dictating these things to you, but as your teaching is often not Scriptural, how can we believe this is the case? Anyone can say "God told me"; I could say "God told me not to listen to you", how would you check that that was correct?
If you accepted the authority of Scripture, and the fact that God does not contradict his word, we might be more inclined to listen.

 

[inrsoul]

Did he miss this out?

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, (17) that the man of God may be perfected, thoroughly furnished to every good work.

Notice how this is worded: Knowledge before Action.

 

[Andrew]

I do believe that men do become sinful and even evil during their lifetime and thus loose their worthiness of Gods grace.

That's totally untrue. Where sin abounds grace abounds much more. Our disqualification is exactly our qualification.