Learning guitar (achievement unlocked!)

[pen_and_poetry]

So I'm learning acoustic guitar and I'm struggling with music theory buuuuut I'm sort of understanding chord progressions within the major scales. I am super proud of myself right now, hehe.

I like folk songs; I had a tab of a song that was too high (I'm a woman who sings tenor in choir). I found a key that was lower but one of the equivalent notes sounded off when I knew it shouldn't. So I stripped the tab down to the chord numbers rather than specific chords of a scale and wow! I could play it in any key as long as I knew the progression! Funny then, I found out I had made a mistake while originally transposing the key from D to C and playing it correctly, suddenly the C scale notes sounded right.

I'm amazed that, say, the G chord can sound totally different in different scales. Like we're using such a small set of chords but they have different character depending on the context. I wish music theory wasn't just Greek to me but if I can learn it practically then I never forget.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

That's awesome! I've been playing for about 35 years and I never learned music theory like I should have. In the last 15ish years I've been trying to increase my knowledge in that area and it does make a huge difference. Just having the knowledge really makes everything make much more sense musically. My son is learning now and I have been pushing him to learn his scales and chords at least and start at a minimum relating it to music theory.

Good luck and continue learning!

 

[WolfGate]

Nice! You taught yourself a key part of the Nashville Number System!! No small feat there.

 

[pen_and_poetry]

Thanks guys!! I'm excited to keep learning more! My callouses are finally coming in to a point where playing for longer periods of time is not painful.

 

[Davy]

I played guitar for many years. After about 10 years, I got tired of learning everyone's else's songs and just playing covers. I wanted to understand how they wrote stuff, especially when I got into Jazz-Fusion. (I don't sing).

I then studied the Freshman and Sophomore college level Harmony books written by Peter Alexander who was a composition major grad from Berklee College of Music (Boston). That's made a huge difference in my study of music, and ability to write.

Just from those books, one of the guys at work that played bass, had a melody he recorded on cassette tape, and it was something he wrote for his daughter's upcoming wedding. They had the lyrics to it and wanted to sing it at her wedding in the Chapel at Disney World. So I took the cassette, devised chord triads based on the melody, and then I programmed a drum kit and wrote a bass line which I de-tuned my electric guitar and recorded. And then I played a rhythm guitar part I wrote for it. I then mixed it down to another cassette that night and gave it to him the next day. He couldn't believe it, and wondered how I could do all that in just one night. Later, he told me they played my cassette as the band at the Chapel mixing board, and all went well as his daughters sang the lyrics.

I actually started to write a music theory book for musicians, because in my process of learning I wasted a lot of money on music theory books that didn't get the job done. I remember buying a chord book that had graphs of chords in all 12 keys. And once I learned that there's actually only 4 main triads in western diatonic harmony, it ticked me off, because once you learns your Triads, then you know how to spell all... chords, and don't need a book to find them.

I then got an excellent Mel Bay guitar book that taught how to play Chord Melody style, a style that most Jazz guitarists use for solo guitar playing. It had me mapping out on the fretboard all possible voicings of a single chord from the nut of the neck all the way up to the 12th fret. That's the secret, knowing the various chord voicings up and down the neck, so that wherever you're at on the fretboard with playing a melody line, you know a voicing(s) of the chord you need at that spot. And yes, the voicings can sound very different from each other, while still maintaining the fundamental sound of the style of chord.

In Spain, where the guitar was developed, they treat playing it like a pianist would approach a piano, covering the melody, rhythm, and bass all at the same time. One of the world's best Spanish guitarists, a Flamenco player for example...

And then there's Pat Metheny... from St. Louis, Missouri that amazed the Jazz guitar world when he was young back in the early '80s. Here's a cover song he did on his baritone guitar (has a heavier bass string setup) for solo guitar. This is ONLY HIM playing one guitar, no dubs:

 

[Bob Crowley]

I've been playing basic guitar for some time and I am getting lessons. But one of the problems I face is that I have a significant hearing loss.

Like a number of other things I'm trying to do I also don't practice enough!

I taught myself AMEB theory to grade 3 (Australian Music Examinations Board) to try and get a handle on music. Being hard of hearing I find it helps to be able to back up what I'm trying to play with the score. I can't play by ear and as for perfect pitch, not a hope in Hades.

Beyond Grade 3 it got a bit technical and it would have been helpful to know something about the piano which is probably the best overall instrument to learn both melody and harmony.

I think some basic music theory and being able to read music is very useful even for those with normal hearing.

One thing I suspect a lot of people don't know is that when we play the guitar we are actually an octave lower than the music we're reading. If I'm fingering the standard middle C position on the guitar (5th string, 3rd fret) I'm actually playing the C below middle C.

Music Theory - Forum

Guitar notation is typically written an octave higher than it sounds at concert pitch compared to the piano (and other standard instruments). This means that the guitar is a transposing instrument, because its notes sound one octave lower than they are actually notated on a score.

The reason for this practice is because if the guitar was written on sheet music as actually pitched, then the pitch of middle C would be written in the bass clef! (Second space from the bottom to be precise.) And the bottom string E would be one ledger line below the entire bass clef.

In order to avoid having to read two staves (bass and treble), the music establishment decided to write guitar one octave up. This helps in one sense because rather than have to read two staves (bass and treble) like piano music, guitar is usually only written in treble clef.

The actual concert pitch middle C on a piano is the "industry standard"; and it is written on the "middle C", one ledger line below the treble clef (also one ledger line above bass clef in order to occupy it's very special place in music notation).

However, the piano is better written in two staves not only because it has a much wider pitch range (higher and lower). But more importantly, because it adds clarity to being able to clearly see two separate parts for two separate hands.

 

[Davy]

I've been playing basic guitar for some time and I am getting lessons. But one of the problems I face is that I have a significant hearing loss.
....
I think some basic music theory and being able to read music is very useful even for those with normal hearing.

Beethoven wrote his 9th symphony while he was almost deaf. But he had many years of experience prior to that though.

I feel for your situation. I played guitar for around 40 years and have been studying music theory for at least 20 years. I can write for orchestra, and even have a certificate from Berklee School of Music (Boston) in Composition For Film and TV. Yet I haven't done anything with it, but now I'm studying interval theory with Music Interval Theory Academy (M.I.T.A.).

 

[Bob Crowley]

Beethoven wrote his 9th symphony while he was almost deaf. But he had many years of experience prior to that though.

I feel for your situation. I played guitar for around 40 years and have been studying music theory for at least 20 years. I can write for orchestra, and even have a certificate from Berklee School of Music (Boston) in Composition For Film and TV. Yet I haven't done anything with it, but now I'm studying interval theory with Music Interval Theory Academy (M.I.T.A.).

Here's hoping you can put all that study to practical use in a good movie!

You're a long way ahead of me. I studied the bit of theory I did so I could read music - not compose it although there is one song I've got in mind.

Whether I ever get around to writing it is another matter.

I wouldn't dream of writing to orchestra level. I knew about Beethoven's deafness, but I assumed he could hear in his head what he wanted to play after years of composing experience. If he had tinnitus as well that would have been a real frustration!

Schoolkid joke - "What's Beethoven's favourite fruit?" - "BA-NA-NA-NAAAAAA!"

 

[Davy]

Here's hoping you can put all that study to practical use in a good movie!

You're a long way ahead of me. I studied the bit of theory I did so I could read music - not compose it although there is one song I've got in mind.

Whether I ever get around to writing it is another matter.

I wouldn't dream of writing to orchestra level. I knew about Beethoven's deafness, but I assumed he could hear in his head what he wanted to play after years of composing experience. If he had tinnitus as well that would have been a real frustration!

Schoolkid joke - "What's Beethoven's favourite fruit?" - "BA-NA-NA-NAAAAAA!"

I really like that Beethoven joke! I gotta' remember that. And yeah, Beethoven's years of playing and composing helped seal the sound of the written notes in his head. They say Mozart had perfect pitch, and only wrote a finished score he'd done in his head, but that's not completely true, as he did many sketches also.

So I really do believe that if you learn how to sketch based on music theory, then you can still do real composition with not the best of hearing. Let me say more on that...

I do not play an instrument while composing. It is not really necessary, and relying on playing an instrument in order to compose can actually 'limit'... what one is able to write (and hear in their head). One's technical ability with an instrument determines what one can compose when relying on writing via an instrument. The Classical composers were masters on the piano, having been brought since small children playing. Me, I can find my way around on the piano in C Major, but that's about it. On the guitar, before I developed arthritis, I could play Jazz chord melody style.

I compose using a score. That might be paper, or in software like Finale or Sibelius. Today we have great advantage, because with software like StaffPad, or a digital orchestra libraries like Spitfire or Orchestral Tools that are actually used for many TV movies and commercials, the quality of the sound is so good, that you can play your written score and have an idea of what it would sound like with a live orchestra. As a matter of fact in Hollywood, directors demand a 'mock-up' of a score you would write for a film, because hiring a live orchestra is expensive. TV often uses the digital orchestra library type scores simply because they can't afford a live orchestra. So most of what you're hearing for TV movies and film is from digital orchestral instrument samples of real instruments.


I realize based on my level it's easy for me to say, but using theory for song writing really isn't that difficult. The secret is to try and not sound like everyone else. This is why I sought teaching like M.I.T.A. offers, which one does have to be able to already read for SATB, and understand Diatonic harmony (this is not a ad plug). Because M.I.T.A. uses all 12 notes of the Scale with Interval theory instead of just 7 like in Diatonic harmony, it covers a whole lot more territory with composition. Less likely to sound like everyone else. I like it. And it took my mind a while to start grasping theory from an interval perspective. But like they said, most of the past successful composers eventually progressed to some form of interval theory.

 

[Davy]

Here's hoping you can put all that study to practical use in a good movie!

You're a long way ahead of me. I studied the bit of theory I did so I could read music - not compose it although there is one song I've got in mind.

Whether I ever get around to writing it is another matter.

I wouldn't dream of writing to orchestra level. I knew about Beethoven's deafness, but I assumed he could hear in his head what he wanted to play after years of composing experience. If he had tinnitus as well that would have been a real frustration!

Schoolkid joke - "What's Beethoven's favourite fruit?" - "BA-NA-NA-NAAAAAA!"

You might like this...

In the sketch and orchestration in the latter bars, he is using a technique called 'position change' (PC), which just takes those chords and moves the bottom note of the chord an octave up. So it's still only using those 3 triads related to C (4+3). And melody line he composes at the end is simply diatonic passing tones of the C Major scale connecting those chords. So truly, everything is based just off that single C Major chord, a 4+3 interval chord.

 

[Bob Crowley]

Thanks for that, although the technique is a long way in advance of where I am.

I suppose I shouldn't be too amazed, since all Western music is based on just 12 semitones, whether we're talking about blues, country, classical, rap, heavy metal, rock or whatever.

Amazing what can be done from such a "limited" basis, although of course we need to take into account the different voicings of different instruments and human speech.

Then there's the way our brain interacts with music.

Music and the Brain: What Happens When You're Listening to Music

"Music and the Brain," a popular class at the University of Central Florida, breaks down how our brains respond to music.

www.ucf.edu

 

[Davy]

Thanks for that, although the technique is a long way in advance of where I am.

I suppose I shouldn't be too amazed, since all Western music is based on just 12 semitones, whether we're talking about blues, country, classical, rap, heavy metal, rock or whatever.

Amazing what can be done from such a "limited" basis, although of course we need to take into account the different voicings of different instruments and human speech.

Then there's the way our brain interacts with music.

Music and the Brain: What Happens When You're Listening to Music

"Music and the Brain," a popular class at the University of Central Florida, breaks down how our brains respond to music.

www.ucf.edu

I know it may seem more advanced, but really it's not. It's just a different approach, a different way of thinking about music. And different voicings of a single chord (like in the MITA example) can sound like many different chords changing, but it's actually just the same chord with the same notes re-arranged. Nothing difficult about that. The Classical masters did that all the time too in their compositions.

The most important idea about that video is how all that music came out of that single C Major triad formula, a 4+3 interval chord on the C root. By thinking of harmony that way, it allowed the creation of those other chords Jones used, which were also 4+3 chords. What that meant is that the 'emotion' stayed the same, even with those two other chord types, but still gave enough musical variation to keep the piece from sounding boring.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I have played classical guitar since 1976. It opened a universe to me. My talent level keeps me at about a 4 or 5 on a 1-10 scale. But there are plenty of beautiful things at that level.

Some favorite composers:
Gaspar Sanz
Fernando Sor
Francisco Tarrega
John Dowland
Dionisio Aguado

and more recently Andrew York