LDS teachings on God

[glen55]

I have discovered that logic has little to do with Mormon doctrine. It is prmarily a matter of praying to God and getting a "burning in the bosom" to confirm that these things are really true.

That could be said about any literal dogma, which the christian version bloomed around the third century into the exclusive virus that divides people instead of reconciling them, it's mantra being my religion and God is bigger mentality that is based on a foundation of factual sand when interpreted literally.

 

[TheBarrd]

That could be said about any literal dogma, which the christian version bloomed around the third century into the exclusive virus that divides people instead of reconciling them, it's mantra being my religion and God is bigger mentality that is based on a foundation of factual sand when interpreted literally.

Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

If you really want to know what Christianity is all about, the Guy you want to consult would be Jesus Himself.
He seems to think the most important "mantra" is "LOVE".

 

[Moodshadow]

That could be said about any literal dogma, which the christian version bloomed around the third century into the exclusive virus that divides people instead of reconciling them, it's mantra being my religion and God is bigger mentality that is based on a foundation of factual sand when interpreted literally.

HUH?????

 

[RevelationTestament]

HUH?????

I believe Glenn is saying that the Nicene Creed divides followers into "haves" and "have nots." In other words if you do not believe Jesus was begotten before all ages or worlds then you are "anathema" and not "christian." Christ said those who are for me are not against me. Just because we do not all follow with the same understanding, does not mean we are not Christian. The creeds were the start of a very earthly hierarchical structure which pitted those of the creed against other followers of Christ and eventually caused them to persecute these other followers.
But I will let Glenn speak as to whether this was indeed his intent, and what else he may have had to say.

 

[Ran77]

1) The god you worship was an exalted man, according to your religion. Unbiblical concept.

2) By admitting other gods exist clearly goes against Scripture which says "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me" (Isaiah 43:10).

Therefore, if you hold to the lds teaching of an exalted god, then you are guilty of idolatry and are worshipping a false god. That you cannot see that is unfortunate.

:o

Idolatry is the religious worship of idols. I worship the God described in the Bible. That is a major disconnect. Allowing for the possibility that other gods may exist is not idolatry. Not by any definition of the word.

 

[Ran77]

Idolatry is the religious worship of idols. I worship the God described in the Bible. That is a major disconnect. Allowing for the possibility that other gods may exist is not idolatry. Not by any definition of the word.

1 Corinthians 7: 4-6

4. As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

5. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6. But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


Based on the comments BigDaddy4 made, it looks as if Paul is guilty of idolatry, because like me he worships Heavenly Father, but allows for the existence of other gods. I guess that means we need to remove all the scripture that was written by this idolatrous man.



John 10: 34 -35

34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;


Using the same criteria, I see that Jesus is walking on shaky ground here. He indicates that the law speaks of gods and if that is the case it is not wrong for Him to claim to be the Son of God.


Genesis 3: 5

5. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


What?!? You mean this rampant idolatry starts in the very first book of the Bible. I guess we will need to throw out the entire Bible and start over. Obviously, the author of Genesis is also into idolatry, recognizing the possible existence of other gods.

Oh wait, that's right there's that argument on how the serpent is lying here and so it doesn't mean what it says.


Genesis 3: 22

22. And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Can you believe that? God is in on this too. He verifies what the serpent says by admitting that man is now as one of "us" and in the same way the serpent described. No doubt about it, "us" indicates more than one and according to the argument BigDady4 has provided if you allow for the possibility that more than one God exists you are guilty of idolatry. Who would've guessed that Heavenly Father was a supporter of idolatry?

:o

 

[Ran77]

Hello DrBubbalove,
long time no see
I would not say this from the LDS standpoint. We view God as the source of all things created. We view Jesus as the author of that creation. TheBarrds question is if Heavenly Father was not our First Father, then there are other "gods" and it is somehow horribly wrong if we don't completely understand that. But from a gospel perspective, it doesn't really matter to most LDS because we don't need to believe that to be saved in the kingdom with Christ. I would add that from the gospel perspective Christ shall be called the "ETERNAL Father" even though He was not sent as the Father, but His Son. So TheBarrds query as to how God can be Eternal if He wasn't always the Father is answered in Christ, as Christ inherits this "attribute" or "office" when He inherits the government of the Father. Thus, like Melchizedek, he is without beginning of days due to His High Priest office. Scripturally there is one (echad) Lord YHWH according to the scriptures. Jesus is YHWH with the Father in a way that it seems man does not comprehend. Jesus was sent as the revelation of the Father to man. Jesus is one YHWH with the Father like a man and wife are one(echad) flesh. It is a spiritual oneness as the Son lived by example all those things He saw the Father do, and did likewise. Thus they are YHWH, Behold the nail, Behold the Hand. Rather than looking at them as separate "gods" they are one God.

God is the eternal source of this creation, and Jesus revealed Him, and will be called the Eternal Father with Him. Isa 9:6


If Jesus becomes the Eternal Father with the Father, does that mean we don't worship "the Father?" No. The Father is the Most High El of this creation and we are to have no other before Him. He is not only our Father but Jesus' Father and will be so till the end - the Omega. Because TheBarrd does not appreciate this ultimate aim of the priesthood - for us to be one with the Father even as Jesus is one with Him - she goes on and on about it trying to paint it as something sinister when instead it is the hope of Christ, and is something revealed in Christ who revealed the Father to us.

International Standard Version
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God. The unique God, who is close to the Father's side, has revealed him.

NET Bible
No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.

Jesus is the express revelation of the Father to us.
"I have engraven thee on the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me."
and showed us so up on the cross.
John 16:25
25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

Bravo.

 

[Ran77]

Read Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21.

I will take that as an indication that there is no proof to support your claim.

 

[TheBarrd]

I believe Glenn is saying that the Nicene Creed divides followers into "haves" and "have nots." In other words if you do not believe Jesus was begotten before all ages or worlds then you are "anathema" and not "christian." Christ said those who are for me are not against me. Just because we do not all follow with the same understanding, does not mean we are not Christian. The creeds were the start of a very earthly hierarchical structure which pitted those of the creed against other followers of Christ and eventually caused them to persecute these other followers.
But I will let Glenn speak as to whether this was indeed his intent, and what else he may have had to say.

Christ also said that many would come to Him saying "Lord, Lord" who had done wonderful things in His name, but that He had never known them, and He called them "workers of iniquity".
Calling yourselves Christian evidently is not enough, nor is doing the "wonderful things in His name".
He also warned of "false prophets" who would come, teaching things He had not taught...
And many other such things.

I would submit, then, that it is possible to take His name in vain...

 

[Ironhold]

This is a debate forum not Family Home Evening. Asking for details is not out of order here.

Who created the mortal Heavenly Father?

You're in such a hurry that you're not getting what people are saying.

Nobody has that answer, period.

Why?

It hasn't been given yet, and for the reasons we've been explaining to you.

 

[Ironhold]

Okay, I'll bite, but first it would be a good idea to define exactly what I meant when I used the term "make waves." In the LDS church, to make waves might include (but certainly not be limited to) not sustaining someone in a meeting. It also might include a teacher introducing ideas into his/her lesson which did not come from the approved curriculum materials which are written, edited, published, and distributed by the LDS church. It also might include attending a ward in whose boundaries you don't actually reside. It might also include saying no when the bishop feels inspired to ask you to assume a calling you don't want or feel qualified for. It might also include being critical - even privately - of a church leader when you believe him wrong or uninspired. The list goes on, of course, but this one will do to illustrate the point for now. You will undoubtedly have some other ideas for what the term means, and please feel free to tell us about those.

So, with all the above in mind..."RAN, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT MAKING WAVES WHEN YOU FEEL YOU HAVE A DISAGREEMENT - EVEN A SMALL ONE - WITH SOMETHING A CHURCH AUTHORITY/BISHOP/STAKE PRESIDENT/AREA/GENERAL AUTHORITY MIGHT SAY?"

Dunno about anyone else, but I usually get away with things that would net me a lifetime ban if I tried them in a local mainline congregation.

 

[BigDaddy4]

:o

Idolatry is the religious worship of idols. I worship the God described in the Bible. That is a major disconnect. Allowing for the possibility that other gods may exist is not idolatry. Not by any definition of the word.

The only "disconnect" is the faulty connection the lds attempt to make with their other standard works.

Exodus 20:3
“You shall have no other gods before me. "

The god that you profess to worship was once an exalted man, and is not the God of the Bible. You have to turn to lds other works that make him what you think he is.

Numbers 23:19
God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

1Samuel 15:29
He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a human being, that he should change his mind

Hosea 11:9b
For I am God, and not a man-- the Holy One among you.

 

[BigDaddy4]

1 Corinthians 7: 4-6

4. As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

5. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6. But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


Based on the comments BigDaddy4 made, it looks as if Paul is guilty of idolatry, because like me he worships Heavenly Father, but allows for the existence of other gods. I guess that means we need to remove all the scripture that was written by this idolatrous man.



John 10: 34 -35

34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;


Using the same criteria, I see that Jesus is walking on shaky ground here. He indicates that the law speaks of gods and if that is the case it is not wrong for Him to claim to be the Son of God.


Genesis 3: 5

5. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


What?!? You mean this rampant idolatry starts in the very first book of the Bible. I guess we will need to throw out the entire Bible and start over. Obviously, the author of Genesis is also into idolatry, recognizing the possible existence of other gods.

Oh wait, that's right there's that argument on how the serpent is lying here and so it doesn't mean what it says.


Genesis 3: 22

22. And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Can you believe that? God is in on this too. He verifies what the serpent says by admitting that man is now as one of "us" and in the same way the serpent described. No doubt about it, "us" indicates more than one and according to the argument BigDady4 has provided if you allow for the possibility that more than one God exists you are guilty of idolatry. Who would've guessed that Heavenly Father was a supporter of idolatry?

:o

Desparate attempt to grasp at straws. None of the so called "gods" referenced were ever claimed to be an exalted man of which you worship. The Bible clearly states there is no other God, only small letter "g" gods that exist only in the minds of mankind.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I will take that as an indication that there is no proof to support your claim.

Then you would be incorrect.

 

[TheBarrd]

Dr. Steve asks:
Who created the mortal Heavenly Father?

Ironhold answers:
You're in such a hurry that you're not getting what people are saying.

Nobody has that answer, period.

Why?

It hasn't been given yet, and for the reasons we've been explaining to you. nnnnnnnnnnnn

Ironhold, did you notice the adjective "created" in Dr. Steve's question?
Like every other mortal man, "god" was, according to your belief, "created"...as was every single other god ever born on any other planet that might exist.
Unless you believe in atheistic evolution, which I'm pretty sure you do not, these guys had to have come from somewhere.
The Bible says that men were "created" from the dust of the ground, and that God (big "G") breathed into them the breath of life.

In other words, "god"...that is the Mormon version of him...could not exist, until God...that is the big "G" version that most of Christendom worships...created him.
That would also apply to every other "god" of every other world that might exist.

The reason the answer "has not been given" to you is because there isn't one.

You can figure it out from there, I'm pretty sure...

 

[Ironhold]

You can figure it out from there, I'm pretty sure...

Once again, you're accusing us of being ignorant for being LDS.

 

[RevelationTestament]

The only "disconnect" is the faulty connection the lds attempt to make with their other standard works.

Exodus 20:3
“You shall have no other gods before me. "

The god that you profess to worship was once an exalted man, and is not the God of the Bible. You have to turn to lds other works that make him what you think he is.

Numbers 23:19
God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

1Samuel 15:29
He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a human being, that he should change his mind

Hosea 11:9b
For I am God, and not a man-- the Holy One among you.

So you would insist that Jesus is this God but not a man?

 

[TheBarrd]

Once again, you're accusing us of being ignorant for being LDS.

That is not what I said at ALL, Ironman.

I am saying that "god"...any of the infinite "gods" that LDS acknowledge, could not exist without having been "created".
Which would mean that there must have been a "Creator".

You said that no answer had been given. I am telling you the answer.
I'm pretty sure that you are intelligent enough to understand my answer, even if you don't agree with it.

 

[drstevej]

You're in such a hurry that you're not getting what people are saying.

Wrong.

Why?

It hasn't been given yet, and for the reasons we've been explaining to you.

Why?

This is all made up stuff and LDS "revelations" have painted you into an irrational theological corner. "Heavenly Mother" is another of these "revelations" that makes reason stare."

But, until the key of knowledge
Was restored, I knew not why.
In the heav'ns are parents single?
No, the thought makes reason stare!
Truth is reason; truth eternal
Tells me I've a mother there.

https://www.lds.org/music/library/hymns/o-my-father?lang=eng

 

[Ran77]

The only "disconnect" is the faulty connection the lds attempt to make with their other standard works.

Exodus 20:3
“You shall have no other gods before me. "

The god that you profess to worship was once an exalted man, and is not the God of the Bible. You have to turn to lds other works that make him what you think he is.

Numbers 23:19
God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

1Samuel 15:29
He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a human being, that he should change his mind

Hosea 11:9b
For I am God, and not a man-- the Holy One among you.

I see that you are not addressing the verses I posted.


:o