LCMS sermon structure

[christianhikerchick]

Ive grown up in a LCMS church, and for a while i have been concerned about the way our church seems to be losing members and having a lack of new incoming members. From my perspective, the main problem seems to be the lack of substance in the pastors sermons...there are times when i cannot even connect his stories to the verse or subject that he is supposed to be refering to. I am curous to see if all LCMS churches structure their sermons in similar ways or if it is just our pastors personal style. So...in a normal sermon, does anyones church go into the theology, history, gospel ect, or is it mostly just stories and not so funny jokes?

Also, how apt are most pastors at answering questions about theology...ive tried talking to my pastor about a few issues because i am at the point where i am trying to understand our churches theology and his answers made me walk away shaking my head...for example i asked him for a good resource that would explain to me our church's view of election/soteriology (i had already given up on asking him questions based on his answers to other questions) and he told me to use a generic encyclopedia

 

[DaRev]

Ive grown up in a LCMS church, and for a while i have been concerned about the way our church seems to be losing members and having a lack of new incoming members. From my perspective, the main problem seems to be the lack of substance in the pastors sermons...there are times when i cannot even connect his stories to the verse or subject that he is supposed to be refering to. I am curous to see if all LCMS churches structure their sermons in similar ways or if it is just our pastors personal style. So...in a normal sermon, does anyones church go into the theology, history, gospel ect, or is it mostly just stories and not so funny jokes?

Also, how apt are most pastors at answering questions about theology...ive tried talking to my pastor about a few issues because i am at the point where i am trying to understand our churches theology and his answers made me walk away shaking my head...for example i asked him for a good resource that would explain to me our church's view of election/soteriology (i had already given up on asking him questions based on his answers to other questions) and he told me to use a generic encyclopedia

It doesn't sound like your pastor is a very good teacher.

Lutheran sermons are to present the proper distinction between Law and Gospel and applying the theological theme to to life of the person in the pew. It's true that not every person will relate to every sermon. But if you are getting nothing from any sermon, something is wrong.

 

[filosofer]

My wife cringes when a pastor focuses on stories. You can be sure she won’t go back a second time. One time she was staying in another state with family for a few months, and one of the members told her that if a pastor couldn’t tell stories and jokes, he would ever get a call to his congregation! Her response was: if that was all the pastor had to do, then why have church?


Ah,... I don’t tell too many stories.



Stories can be effective, but most preaching that has stories covers/overshadows the text.


I have found the biggest problem is that pastors do not preach the text, they preach what they want, and the text becomes a pretext and jumping off point to make his own point. For five years I mentored an LCMS pastor who had served as pastor for 25+ years. But his sermons dramatically improved when he began tackling the texts. Even the parishioners began to notice a difference!

 

[porterross]

I agree with your wife, Filo. You married well, huh.

 

[Jim47]

If you are comfortable with talking to your Pastor why not ask him why is sermons don't center more around God's word? Remind him that as God's children we need to be fed His word and thats the main reason why we go to church. Perhaps he needs to be jolted or encouraged. Anyone can fall into a rutt, even Pastors. Remember that he too is just a child of God and sometimes in need of anothers guidance and support.

If he rejects your talking to him and becomes defensive than you have your answer as to why he is preaching what he does. At that point it is time to talk to your church president and board of elders. Prayers are always in order.

 

[christianhikerchick]

If you are comfortable with talking to your Pastor why not ask him why is sermons don't center more around God's word? Remind him that as God's children we need to be fed His word and thats the main reason why we go to church. Perhaps he needs to be jolted or encouraged. Anyone can fall into a rutt, even Pastors. Remember that he too is just a child of God and sometimes in need of anothers guidance and support.

If he rejects your talking to him and becomes defensive than you have your answer as to why he is preaching what he does. At that point it is time to talk to your church president and board of elders. Prayers are always in order.

I have actually been thinking about talking to him. I am only unsure about how to approch the subject while still staying respectful. I have never been good with confrontations, and even though i realize that this is not a bad situation i still am a little hesitant to speak with him and explain that i believe that he needs to change his sermons. also, i really dont have too much confidence in his ability to do better sermons. like i said before, when i have talked to him on some matters the answers that he gave me didnt seem like those that you would expect from someone who went to seminary and has/is continuously learning. any suggestions as to how i could best approch him in a respectful and unoffensive manner?
thanks

 

[joyfulthanks]

I'm so sorry to hear this, christianhikerchick! I am new to the LCMS and to Luthernism (though not to being a Christian), so I can't say what the general state sermons in the LCMS is, but I can tell you that, at least in my local congregation, we have some of the best sermons I've ever heard! Our pastor focuses like a laser-beam on the Word - both Law and Gospel.

I have spent many years in your situation, though, while in other churches, and I know how frustrating, maddening, and disheartening it can be.

Just from your posts, it sounds to me as if you would do fine at approching him in a respectful manner. If you're like me, you might even think about writing what you want to say. That way, you can work through it and get it so that it is exactly what you want to say and the way you want to say it. If you send or email it to him instead of handing it to him in person, it will also give him a chance to digest it without having to react to someone in front of him immediately.

Another thing I would suggest is to pray for him daily. Pastors have a very hard job, and they truly need our prayers.

By the way, welcome!

 

[RadMan]

I have actually been thinking about talking to him. I am only unsure about how to approch the subject while still staying respectful. I have never been good with confrontations, and even though i realize that this is not a bad situation i still am a little hesitant to speak with him and explain that i believe that he needs to change his sermons. also, i really dont have too much confidence in his ability to do better sermons. like i said before, when i have talked to him on some matters the answers that he gave me didnt seem like those that you would expect from someone who went to seminary and has/is continuously learning. any suggestions as to how i could best approch him in a respectful and unoffensive manner?
thanks

That raises the eternal question if all pastors are really called. That's fodder for another thread.

 

[DaRev]

That raises the eternal question if all pastors are really called. That's fodder for another thread.

They would have to be, otherwise they wouldn't be pastors.

The real question regards their level of formation. Unfortunately, in the LCMS, not all pastors have the benefit of seminary training. (Something that makes my skin crawl.)

 

[RadMan]

They would have to be, otherwise they wouldn't be pastors.

The real question regards their level of formation. Unfortunately, in the LCMS, not all pastors have the benefit of seminary training. (Something that makes my skin crawl.)

So I can listed to Benny on TV again?

 

[christianhikerchick]

They would have to be, otherwise they wouldn't be pastors.

The real question regards their level of formation. Unfortunately, in the LCMS, not all pastors have the benefit of seminary training. (Something that makes my skin crawl.)

I wish that i could say that he didnt have training...but he actually went to seminary (hes complained about having to learn greek a few times...prob the one thing that i actually remember from his sermons) I think that the major problem is that he wasnt called to be a pastor...besides the fact that his teaching is a little off, he seems to lack compassion for people (i know from personal experience) which i would think would be necessary in order to help people in his congregation who are struggling. he was supposed to be a temp. pastor for our church while he applied for some administration possition for LCMS that he really wanted (i dont remember which one). well, he didnt get the job and he ended up just staying...now he's been here for over 8 years

 

[BigNorsk]

Ahhh the permanent temp.

He's a square peg in a round hole, and it doesn't sound like he is very good or even much cares for his position.

It's really not something that you, as a member should have to deal with. Matter of fact, I really know no way for you to deal with it.

It's the leadership of your congregation needs to step up and do something.

I can hardly imagine they are unaware, but you should inform them of your experiences.

How is your church set up, I would guess you have some sort of council or president or maybe even call them elders or something? Hopefully they aren't just someone thinking they got railroading into something for a couple of years until they can get out of it. But in any case, it's primarily their responsibility.

Marv

 

[porterross]

Marv, it sounds like the leadership of this congregation are not unlike the local one here and seem to accept that this man is acceptable to them and those who have a problem with it are expecting too much or are impatient. We can blame the men put in pastoral positions, but it's been my experience that just as much of the problem is those who allow these men to continue their poor practices. There is simply no consistency in the LCMS and it's truly upsetting.

 

[Jim47]

any suggestions as to how i could best approch him in a respectful and unoffensive manner?
thanks

Marv, it sounds like the leadership of this congregation are not unlike the local one here and seem to accept that this man is acceptable to them and those who have a problem with it are expecting too much or are impatient. We can blame the men put in pastoral positions, but it's been my experience that just as much of the problem is those who allow these men to continue their poor practices. There is simply no consistency in the LCMS and it's truly upsetting.

Porterross may be right, but it won't hurt for you to talk with him with a humble heart. If his consiense is guilty then God is able to correct him.

Simply ask him why his sermons aren't more centered on law and gosple as presented in God's word. Best wishes

 

[BigNorsk]

Why don't you see if you can record the sermons and put them on the web?

That doesn't come across as insulting, and maybe he'd work a bit harder at it?

 

[ctay]

This pastor of the church i'm going to now, his sermons are centered around a bible verse, he'll explain the verse and what in means that type of stuff. The other church was a different story. The lay person that they hired, his sermons I didn't anything out of, he told stories and had no idea where he was going or what he was trying to get acroos. They say he's gotten better, I don't know, I hadn't heard him in almost a year

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

So I can listed to Benny on TV again?

You can.... but do you really want to?????????????????????

 

[DaRev]

So I can listed to Benny on TV again?

Everyone needs a little comic relief from time to time.

 

[Till]

for example i asked him for a good resource that would explain to me our church's view of election/soteriology (i had already given up on asking him questions based on his answers to other questions) and he told me to use a generic encyclopedia

http://online.nph.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?10418&productID=150607


I know it is not LCMS but does the view oultined in this book differ from LCMS's view on election?

 

[synger]

So I can listed to Benny on TV again?

My husband LOVES Benny!