Last things...

[Matrona]

Anyone who's a legal eagle or at least somewhat educated on the subject of estate planning/funeral expenses, I could use your help. If it creeps you out to see a twenty-year-old talking about her own death, click your back button and forget you were ever here. Don't worry, I'm not dying, and the mafia's not after me, but a friend of mine from high school was killed in a terrible accident four years ago [*] this past May, and it brought to mind the following concerns of mine.

I got to thinking, what if something bad happened to me, and I ended up with a life-threatening condition, or dead? How would my religious needs and wishes be carried out in the face of my family, which usually ranges from unsupportive to downright hostile about my religious convictions?

I actually don't know much about the Orthodox funeral rites and practices, other than we aren't wild about cremation, and a few other things. My mother is a big-time advocate of cremation. I never have been, but I can't expect her to really care what my wishes were, if something happened to me, especially in absence of a legal document that at least declares, once and for all, what kind of final arrangements I would want should the unthinkable happen.

What I need is some way to really say what my preferences are, and a provision to pay for them if my parents won't. I'm unemployed at the moment and I don't have any real assets to speak of, no car and no savings. Thanks to anyone who has any advice.

[*] Ashley--may her memory be eternal.

 

[Reader Nilus]

Speak with your priest about these issues, maybe the diocese has an attorney that can help you draw up a will with the express directions of your funeral, and put a priest in charge of making the arrangements.
Jeff the Finn

 

[Matrona]

Speak with your priest about these issues, maybe the diocese has an attorney that can help you draw up a will with the express directions of your funeral, and put a priest in charge of making the arrangements.
Jeff the Finn

They're not going to be freaked out by a young and apparently healthy person asking about this kind of thing, though, are they? I mean, I've wanted to have 'arrangements' in place in case of the unthinkable for a long, long time, long before I became Orthodox. But I've never been able to get it together, and now, as they say, the stakes are much higher.

 

[Reader Nilus]

You can make your own coffin or have someone make it for you, that is a major expense of a funeral, and if you are buried soon enough, you do not have to be embalmed. The coffin is open during an Orthodox funeral, unless you are to mangled or ripe, there was a priest at our mission Fr Leo of blessed memory who died and was not found for a few days, so his coffin remained closed. Monks would have their coffin in their cell to always remind them what their end was.

Jeff the Finn

 

[Reader Nilus]

They're not going to be freaked out by a young and apparently healthy person asking about this kind of thing, though, are they? I mean, I've wanted to have 'arrangements' in place in case of the unthinkable for a long, long time, long before I became Orthodox. But I've never been able to get it together, and now, as they say, the stakes are much higher.

The fathers tell us always to have our death in mind, no a priest would not be freaked out, because being Orthodox we are not freaked out by death.
Jeff the Finn

 

[brewmama]

One of our priests gave a lecture on this. He's a lawyer, and he actually got his mortuary license after looking into this subject. The thing is, the law varies from state to state, and all I am familiar with is Colorado law. Anyway, here, you don't HAVE to be embalmed IF you are buried within so many days or refrigerated. You don't have to go to a funeral home at all, but can be in the church for services, then taken for burial from there. There are wood caskets available for a fairly cheap price, (around $400 I believe) and one of our larger Orthodox churches in the area carries them for members who want one without going to a funeral home.

Cremation is strongly discouraged, if not forbidden.

There are no eulogies during an Orthodox Liturgy (funeral), but there can be at Vespers or memorial service. I went to an Orthodox memorial Vespers for a deceased member, it was so beautiful, as you can imagine. I was so glad that I was Orthodox, and would be enveloped in such glory at death.

We were given several forms to fill out for our priest indicating what particulars we wanted. I'll have to look them up. Anyway, the thing to do to start is talk to your priest and make a will indicating what you want, and appoint someone in your will to be your executor, maybe your priest or your godparent. A lawyer will know your state laws.

Just to add, there is no theological reason NOT to go to a funeral home or be embalmed, but our lawyer-priest felt it was a rip-off and something that funeral homes take advantage of at a vulnerable time. If you spell out what you want, no one will be pressured to make these decisions.

 

[Matrona]

You can make your own coffin or have someone make it for you

And I can just use it as a very rustic-looking coffee table until the time comes?

Seriously, I really appreciate your advice. It's given me some peace of mind which is worth a lot to me right now.

that is a major expense of a funeral, and if you are buried soon enough, you do not have to be embalmed. The coffin is open during an Orthodox funeral, unless you are to mangled or ripe, there was a priest at our mission Fr Leo of blessed memory who died and was not found for a few days, so his coffin remained closed. Monks would have their coffin in their cell to always remind them what their end was.

With things as they are, I don't think it's likely that I'd be able to be taken care of soon enough to avoid being embalmed. But I can think of a couple Orthodox charity organizations that might help carry out my wishes, if it comes to that (that is, my parents not picking up the tab).

(I think that if your parents still claim you as a dependent on their tax returns, they should be held responsible for things like this, but that's my beef, and I digress.)

 

[Reader Nilus]

One of our priests gave a lecture on this. He's a lawyer, and he actually got his mortuary license after looking into this subject. The thing is, the law varies from state to state, and all I am familiar with is Colorado law. Anyway, here, you don't HAVE to be embalmed IF you are buried within so many days or refrigerated. You don't have to go to a funeral home at all, but can be in the church for services, then taken for burial from there. There are wood caskets available for a fairly cheap price, (around $400 I believe) and one of our larger Orthodox churches in the area carries them for members who want one without going to a funeral home.

Cremation is strongly discouraged, if not forbidden.

There are no eulogies during an Orthodox Liturgy (funeral), but there can be at Vespers or memorial service. I went to an Orthodox memorial Vespers for a deceased member, it was so beautiful, as you can imagine. I was so glad that I was Orthodox, and would be enveloped in such glory at death.

We were given several forms to fill out for our priest indicating what particulars we wanted. I'll have to look them up. Anyway, the thing to do to start is talk to your priest and make a will indicating what you want, and appoint someone in your will to be your executor, maybe your priest or your godparent. A lawyer will know your state laws.

Just to add, there is no theological reason NOT to go to a funeral home or be embalmed, but our lawyer-priest felt it was a rip-off and something that funeral homes take advantage of at a vulnerable time. If you spell out what you want, no one will be pressured to make these decisions.

Cremation is forbidden. If you are cremated you can not have an Orthodox funeral.
Jeff the Finn

 

[Matrona]

Cremation is forbidden. If you are cremated you can not have an Orthodox funeral.
Jeff the Finn

That's true. Although I believe exceptions are made for Japanese Orthodox Christians, because cremation is required by law in Japan. Cremation always creeped me out, anyway, after my grandmother was "taken care of" that way.

Thank you so much, brewmama and Jeff.

 

[twosid]

That was a frightening start to your post. Anyhow....My wife and I had a will drawn up a couple of years ago as we were both going to a fairly hostile place to do things that people react to in a hostile way...etc. Ours was complicated because we had to allow for death of either or both of us and had to take care of our mutual child and her two by a previous marriage. Anyhow....it was around $400 and I was told could have been done much cheaper had we not had the issues with the kids etc. In some cases even something you draw up with software like "Will Maker" etc. will suffice but run whatever you do by a good attorney.

 

[ufonium2]

Be aware that any forms you might find on the internet or at one of those do-it-yourself legal places have a high likelihood of being generic or outdated and thus invalid. In fact, even if you manage to get the right form, if you mess anything up the judge will throw it out and isn't allowed to tell you what's wrong with it (not that knowing what's wrong with your will would help you after you die.) Judges can't even tell lawyers what they messed up if they happen to, because that's considered giving legal advice. So, either really bone up on the laws for your specific state and hope for the best, or talk to your priest.

 

[Momzilla]

Regarding burial expenses, it shouldn't be too expensive to get a small ($10,000) term life insurance policy to cover burial expenses. Given your age, in fact, it's likely to be pretty darn cheap. If you ever get to the point where you have some cash to spare, I'd recommend it.

 

[The Prokeimenon!]

A little related FYI:

You cannot, as an Orthodox Christian, donate your body to science. You can donate some organs, provided they will be used to give life to others, and not for research.

You should make sure that your body is kept as whole as possible, because we believe in the Resurrection of the body.

And, the good news for Catechumens, you are given an Orthodox funeral if you should pass away before you are Baptised/Chrismated

 

[Photini]

I actually don't know much about the Orthodox funeral rites and practices, other than we aren't wild about cremation, and a few other things. My mother is a big-time advocate of cremation. I never have been, but I can't expect her to really care what my wishes were, if something happened to me, especially in absence of a legal document that at least declares, once and for all, what kind of final arrangements I would want should the unthinkable happen.

What I need is some way to really say what my preferences are, and a provision to pay for them if my parents won't. I'm unemployed at the moment and I don't have any real assets to speak of, no car and no savings. Thanks to anyone who has any advice.
[*] Ashley--may her memory be eternal.

A very wise man told me that I needed to make a Will (something which I haven't done yet). Especially seeing as how I have two children. I haven't looked into it yet....the how-tos, cost, etc.

As far as cremation...one of the chanters in my church died a couple of months ago and was cremated. (His wife is not Orthodox.) He was denied an Orthodox burial and any commemoration in church. That is a scary thought for me. My soul will need all the prayers i can get...

 

[Matrona]

Regarding burial expenses, it shouldn't be too expensive to get a small ($10,000) term life insurance policy to cover burial expenses. Given your age, in fact, it's likely to be pretty darn cheap. If you ever get to the point where you have some cash to spare, I'd recommend it.

Hey, that's a good idea! I looked up something online and found that the most expensive would be like $10 a month, for ten years of coverage at $50,000. And that's being honest about my parents both having serious heart conditions. Thanks!