Last Days Timing

Jesus said 'This generation'....I believe Him. He didnt mean thousands of years in the future.

Also, 70AD was the culmination of a lot of prophesies...

Lost4words said:

Jesus said 'This generation'....I believe Him. He didnt mean thousands of years in the future.

Also, 70AD was the culmination of a lot of prophesies...

Click to expand...

The word used for "this" can also be translated "that" or "this same". And in context of what Jesus was saying it makes sense. The generation that sees the signs that He has been talking about start to happen, will not pass away until it is all completed. It will happen quickly. It's why He used the illustration of the woman in labor. Once it starts, it happens quickly. He constantly says He will return quickly (often mistranslated as "soon").

EclipseEventSigns said:

The phrase "must soon take place" is a mistranslation. "Soon" should actually be "quickly". Even the KJV uses "quickly" for that same word in Rev 22:20. As do many other translations. Revelation 22 :: English Standard Version (ESV)
In the original Aramaic the word means "quickly" in the majority of places that it occurs. Peshitta verses that contain word 2:15172 &#1810y&#1829y&#1811y&#1824y

Click to expand...

Actually both are mistranslations as neither word is a noun in English. However, quickness is a noun. Probably why the interlinear has quickness. You are correct when using the adverb.

Luke 18:8 N-DNS
GRK: αὐτῶν ἐν τάχει πλὴν ὁ
NAS: justice for them quickly. However,
KJV: them speedily. Nevertheless
INT: of them in quickness Nevertheless the
Acts 12:7 N-DNS
GRK: Ἀνάστα ἐν τάχει καὶ ἐξέπεσαν
NAS: Get up quickly. And his chains
INT: Rise up in haste And fell off

Acts 22:18 N-DNS
GRK: ἔξελθε ἐν τάχει ἐξ Ἰερουσαλήμ
NAS: out of Jerusalem quickly, because
KJV: and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem:
INT: go away with speed out of Jerusalem

Acts 25:4 N-DNS
GRK: μέλλειν ἐν τάχει ἐκπορεύεσθαι
NAS: was about to leave shortly.
KJV: would depart shortly [thither].
INT: was about in quickness to set out

Romans 16:20 N-DNS
GRK: ὑμῶν ἐν τάχει Ἡ χάρις
NAS: The God of peace will soon crush Satan
INT: of you in short time The grace

1 Timothy 3:14 N-DNS
GRK: σὲ ἐν τάχει
INT: you in short time

Revelation 1:1 N-DNS
GRK: γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει καὶ ἐσήμανεν
NAS: must soon take place;
INT: take place in quickness and he signified [it]

Revelation 22:6 N-DNS
GRK: γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει
NAS: the things which must soon take place.
INT: come to pass in quickness

As I wrote, the passage in the original Aramaic uses the adverb "quickly" in both places. If the Greek translators chose to use a noun instead, that was what they thought best expressed the thought. But in any case, it does not mean "soon". It means when it happens, it will happen quickly.

EclipseEventSigns said:

It means when it happens, it will happen quickly.

Click to expand...

makes sense.

70AD....

Thats when it happened....

EclipseEventSigns said:

As I wrote, the passage in the original Aramaic uses the adverb "quickly" in both places. If the Greek translators chose to use a noun instead, that was what they thought best expressed the thought. But in any case, it does not mean "soon". It means when it happens, it will happen quickly.

Click to expand...

And what's your get around for "the time is near"? (Revelation 1:3, 22:10 James 5:8) and "will not delay" (Hebrews 10:37)??

Is it your position that both " the time is near" and "will not delay" actually mean the exact opposite of what they say?

keras said:

No. He refers to God's timing, as scripture tells us, proved by the fact of nearly 2000 years having passed since Jesus Prophesied, the end time events.
Pedantic usage of Greek or Hebrew grammar, is just a red herring and leads to confusion. The Prophesies of Revelation do give us the correct sequence of the end time events, which must soon take place, WHEN the end times commence.
Obviously; none of Revelation, from Rev 6:12 to the end, remain unfulfilled.

Click to expand...

Peter didn't say: "When the end times commence", you did. In fact Peter said the following.
1 Peter 1:20He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.

And Hebrews 1:2has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

Without the correct use of grammar, there's no possible understanding of any language. Looking up the grammar is easy now, you don't have to be a scholar, the work is already done for you. That's what I'm doing. If your confused, it's because of tradition which was held by the Pharisees and the disciples that the Messiah would come and sit on the literal throne of David and rule upon the earth. But His kingdom is not of this world. We are in the world, but not of this world. Our citizenship is in heaven. We are His kingdom on the earth as ambassadors.

There's no end to the church age.
Ephesians 3:21
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

His kingdom is not a physical kingdom.
Romans 14:17For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

His throne is forever in Heaven
Psalm 45:6
Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

Isaiah 9:
6For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end, It's been increasing ever since it started when Jesus sat down on the right hand of God)
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Daniel 2: 44And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

Daniel 7:
13“I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
14Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.

parousia70 said:

And what's your get around for "the time is near"? (Revelation 1:3, 22:10 James 5:8) and "will not delay" (Hebrews 10:37)??

Is it your position that both " the time is near" and "will not delay" actually mean the exact opposite of what they say?

Click to expand...

I don't need a get around. The text says what it says. It's not my words

EclipseEventSigns said:

I don't need a get around. The text says what it says. It's not my words

Click to expand...

But isn't your position that the time was in fact NOT near back then? - You went to great lengths explaining how Soon did not mean soon but was a translators error.... so you agree near means literally near and that there is no translation misunderstanding?
Excellent.
How was His coming literally "near" 2000 years ago then?

I think everyone can agree 2000 years is NOT near. Indeed scripture itself confirms this by asserting that even 1400 years is in fact "NOT near" (Numbers 24:17)

parousia70 said:

And what's your get around for "the time is near"? (Revelation 1:3, 22:10 James 5:8) and "will not delay" (Hebrews 10:37)??

Is it your position that both " the time is near" and "will not delay" actually mean the exact opposite of what they say?

Click to expand...

I took a bit of time to look at these verses since they seem to be a stumbling block for you. I wonder if you have looked at other translations to compare or even looked at the Greek translation to see what it says?
First, I don't see any issue in Hebrews 10:37. What does "not delay" have to do with "arriving quickly"? There is an appointed time. Christ will show up then. No sooner. And no later. When the time is right, He comes quickly. In the verse before, the author says to have endurance during the waiting period.
Then in the verses of Rev 1:3, 22:10, and James 5:8 there is again a mistranslation or at least a wrong assumption. "Is near" is not the best rendering of what is meant. It should be "approaches" or "draws near". The event is getting closer. Not that the event is necessarily imminent. The original Aramaic uses this same word for many places where it refers to things and people approaching but not yet at their destination.

So, there it is. No conflict at all in those verses with what has been said about Rev 22:20, etc.

'approaches' 'draws near' aint 2,000 years away...

An 18 year old would not say their 65th birthday draws near, or approaches!

If they stated that their 21st birthday draws near or approaches then we know that it is imminent. Its not scores of years away!

Lost4words said:

'approaches' 'draws near' aint 2,000 years away...

An 18 year old would not say their 65th birthday draws near, or approaches!

If they stated that their 21st birthday draws near or approaches then we know that it is imminent. Its not scores of years away!

Click to expand...

I guess you'll have to take up the timing with God Himself. I didn't say it. He did.

EclipseEventSigns said:

I guess you'll have to take up the timing with God Himself. I didn't say it. He did.

Click to expand...

Its not what He said no. Its how 'You' interpret what He says...

Lost4words said:

Its not what He said no. Its how 'You' interpret what He says...

Click to expand...

Seriously? I quoted the actual text. I did not make anything up. If you can show how the original text - not a translation - says something different, please do so.

EclipseEventSigns said:

Seriously? I quoted the actual text. I did not make anything up. If you can show how the original text - not a translation - says something different, please do so.

Click to expand...

You believe it to mean one thing. You interpret it differently...

Approaches, draws near does not equate to something 2,000 years in the future!

Lost4words said:

You believe it to mean one thing. You interpret it differently...

Approaches, draws near does not equate to something 2,000 years in the future!

Click to expand...

Again, the invitation is there for you to prove it says what you claim in your opinion.

EclipseEventSigns said:

I took a bit of time to look at these verses since they seem to be a stumbling block for you.

Click to expand...

Oh, I have no stumble with these passages. They line up perfectly for me. I don't have to insist near does not mean near in order for my theology to comport with them, that's your requirement of them, not mine.
I'm challenenging your interpretation, as I find it untenable. From my vantage point, the stumbling block is most certainly yours.

EclipseEventSigns said:

I wonder if you have looked at other translations to compare or even looked at the Greek translation to see what it says?
First, I don't see any issue in Hebrews 10:37. What does "not delay" have to do with "arriving quickly"? There is an appointed time. Christ will show up then. No sooner. And no later. When the time is right, He comes quickly. In the verse before, the author says to have endurance during the waiting period.

Click to expand...

Who does the author exhort to have such endurance? Let's look:
"36 For you [1st century Hebrew Christians] have need of endurance, so that after you [1st century Hebrew Christians] have done the will of God, you [1st century Hebrew Christians] may receive the promise:

Why did the author insist that the 1st century Hebrew Christians needed to endure until His promised coming that would come "without delay", in a Very VERY little while"?

BTW, why don't you Discect that one for us?... I noticed you didn't address the "very very little while" part. I'm definitely curoius what sort of linguistic gymnastics you employ to stretch and elongate that into meaning the exact polar opposite of what it plainly says?

James exhorts His audience similarly:
5: 7Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain.

Perhaps you can explain how the 1st century brethren of James could be Patient until the Lords Coming?
Is it your contention that they are still in danger of losing their patience and endurance today?

EclipseEventSigns said:

Then in the verses of Rev 1:3, 22:10, and James 5:8 there is again a mistranslation or at least a wrong assumption. "Is near" is not the best rendering of what is meant. It should be "approaches" or "draws near". The event is getting closer. Not that the event is necessarily imminent. The original Aramaic uses this same word for many places where it refers to things and people approaching but not yet at their destination.

So, there it is. No conflict at all in those verses with what has been said about Rev 22:20, etc.

Click to expand...

Ok, lets compare with Matthew 24:33 then.
33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!

Is it your contention that Jesus meant the ambiguous, thousands of years away "near" that you prefer here?
Would your preferred rendering go something more like:
"So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is not necessarily near, just nearer than it was the day before, but still may be thousands of years away—at the doors!"

If not, why not?

Do you think James was Ignorant of Jesus' words here when he wrote Jas 5:8-9, which is practially a verbatim quote of Matt 24:33? That those two passages have no relation whatsoever? Just plain coincidence? Nothing to see here?

I see no scriptural instruction to conclude anything of the sort.

EclipseEventSigns said:

Again, the invitation is there for you to prove it says what you claim in your opinion.

Click to expand...

Again, it doesnt mean 2,000 years in the future. You cannot prove it does mean that...

I totally agree with parousia70 above. It makes complete sense.