Largest study on transgender children

public hermit

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yeshuaslavejeff

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"What this means is that, if I saw the data of any random participant, I would not be able to tell if that child is transgender or cisgender."
So?

The truth is not recognized by the natural, fleshly, worldly man/ science/ mankind.

The spiritual man, taught and trained by God, appraiseth all things, and is appraised by no one.
 
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public hermit

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So?

The truth is not recognized by the natural, fleshly, worldly man/ science/ mankind.

The spiritual man, taught and trained by God, appraiseth all things, and is appraised by no one.

As always, you make an interesting comment. Do you think it is significant that this study claims they cannot tell the difference between the two? What would the significance of that be?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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As always, you make an interesting comment. Do you think it is significant that this study claims they cannot tell the difference between the two? What would the significance of that be?
The wisdom and knowledge of man, the flesh, mankind, is like that - and lead not to Christ, nor totruth,
but to worshiping a creature INSTEAD of the Creator.
 
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com7fy8

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Do you think it is significant that this study claims they cannot tell the difference between the two? What would the significance of that be?
First, I think prepubescent children do not understand sexuality. So, their gender choice would not be influenced by sexual preference, but maybe by other things.

And what I would be concerned about is what happens when they become pubescent. I can imagine, for example, an XY identified as a girl > the XY person presenting as a girl might become attracted to XX girls. And a gay girl could become attracted to the XY who claims to be a girl. They could have children.

But this could mean they are judging by what someone looks like, instead of finding how to love deeply.
 
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public hermit

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I can imagine, for example, an XY identified as a girl > the XY person presenting as a girl might become attracted to XX girls. And a gay girl could become attracted to the XY who claims to be a girl.

It took me a minute to wrap my head around this scenario. Yes, that would be quite the situation. Do you think this particular study, if we assume it is accurate, recommends caution when it comes to how parents address children who seem to be presenting as another gender? The conclusion of the study seems to be (or is) neutral. But if they cannot find clear differences between those that present and those that do not, wouldn't that suggest caution?
 
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anna ~ grace

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What needs to be studied more and discussed more, imho, is "transgender regret". The phenomenon of a person who had once seen themselves as the opposite sex begining to feel like and desire to live as their birth sex.

If all you have done is change your hair and clothes, this is not do difficult. Still an often embarrassing and painful and confusing journey, but not technically very difficult. For those who have began hormone "therapy" and even had surgery, it is often much more difficult.

We need to understand. Feeling like or wanting to be the opposite sex does not make you the opposite sex. Hating your innately male or female body and wishing you looked different does not make you the opposite sex. Being a somewhat physically or emotionally masculine woman or an effeminate man does not make you the opposite sex. It doesn't.

There are many, many valid ways to naturally and happily live out your birth sex. Balance, patience, coming to peace with the body God gave you, understanding that feelings are just feelings and do not need to be acted on, and getting to the emotional roots of gender dysphoria are the answers.
 
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anna ~ grace

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As is picking up your cross and living as the man or woman God has made you. It is hard. But it is not impossible.

If people can phase out of transgenderism minus personal faith in Christ or in God on a purely emotional level, then we really, really need to examine how we, as Christians, are looking at this issue. And think more deeply. Seriously.
 
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public hermit

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This (transgenderism) is a conversation that is front-loaded with taboos. I hardly want to speak on it, because I know it's so easy to say the "wrong" thing. If we are going to have an open conversation that is productive, then everybody needs to be able to express their experience and concerns without fear of being labelled or ostracized. And I think that labeling and ostracizing can happen to folks on either side of the issue, and of course, those in-between.

For my own part, I feel like I am on the outside looking in. I don't know the experience of gender dysphoria, so I can only be generous and listen to those who do. This is about all I can say on it. I pray for any who experience it.
 
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com7fy8

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But if they cannot find clear differences between those that present and those that do not, wouldn't that suggest caution?
Well . . . there is a difference. One considers oneself to be a different gender, and the other doesn't. I would say that is a very big difference . . . for one to desire a very different social and physical identity, and the other not to.
 
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com7fy8

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Yes . . . compassion.

I might first ask a child, "Why . . . if you know?"

And my general prejudice is a child would have different sorts of reasons, than a full-grown and pubescent adult would have.

While I was a boy in elementary school, I would talk in a girl's voice and ask a cute boy for a kiss. The guys did not care for that, to say the least. It stopped, pretty quick. And I just went on. But later, I remember, I could talk in a soft voice and a certain man kept calling me "Sweetheart", I think I remember. But I did not get it. I had no interest in him, and I was not trying to be feminine.

What I see in general is I was trying to fit in and get approval and get things I wanted. Pleasure was a thing I wanted. Girls were treated with contempt by the kids; so may be I was trying to get more than playing, more affection, intimacy, while not getting in social trouble by being more with the girls. I don't know for sure. But I do know I was very into seeking . . . pleasure. Candy and ice cream, then, were much more of an intense interest for me. Sexual organ based identity and pleasure were not in the picture.

But I can see how older people can be very much about seeking pleasure. Their preference for male or female can have even nothing to do with reproduction. But sexual sensations by themselves can indeed be a major treasure pleasure for some number of people. A person's real preference, then, can be pleasure.

And I can try to develop my situation so I am getting the pleasure I treasure, without other people messing with it. And if you effectively mess with a pleasure which is a real treasure for me . . . I might then react like I am a maniac. But, of course, with Jesus I can do better than be a victim of this, and not be a puppet of conforming and defending even viciously, in order to have my treasure pleasure.

There are plenty of heterosexual people who are in the pleasure preference trap, I think we can see. We hear about the fights between lovers and even spouses who supposedly love each other, yet can abuse each other with their arguing and other cruel things . . . in my opinion, because their love is very about making sure they get the pleasure they treasure, and so they have the maniacal capability ready to enforce what they want.

But weakness for pleasure is also weakness for pain. Only Jesus can make us strong so we can hold up in loving with even enemies as well as close companions - - - "without complaining and disputing" > see Philippians 2:13-16, with Ephesians 4:31-32.

I would say a lot of us have given into fighting and biting, somehow, over pleasures we demand that we have; and possibly every one of us has given in to unforgiveness which cancels us out of the love which we could be sharing in intimacy with God and one another as His family. So, if my theory is correct, that people's sexual identity can really be about how to get pleasure . . . not reproduction . . . then all of us should be able to understand others, and have compassion out of our own experience >

"He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)

My opinion is we all still have "weakness", more or less, for pleasure which does not love us; as much as we exercise in weakness for selfish pleasure, this can help to keep us from becoming stronger in God's way of loving. And any of us can still more or less keep on giving in to and suffering in arguing and complaining and unforgiveness and boredom and loneliness, because we let ourselves stay weak for what is selfish.

So, I say we can understand ourselves and anyone else :)
 
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FireDragon76

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This (transgenderism) is a conversation that is front-loaded with taboos. I hardly want to speak on it, because I know it's so easy to say the "wrong" thing. If we are going to have an open conversation that is productive, then everybody needs to be able to express their experience and concerns without fear of being labelled or ostracized. And I think that labeling and ostracizing can happen to folks on either side of the issue, and of course, those in-between.

For my own part, I feel like I am on the outside looking in. I don't know the experience of gender dysphoria, so I can only be generous and listen to those who do. This is about all I can say on it. I pray for any who experience it.

That's cool. You are a step ahead of many people in this area.
 
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