Lambda-CDM: What good is their so called "research" program?

sjastro

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Ok Mr Mozina the great religious defender of the Lerner faith.

Please answer the following questions.
(1) What prevents Lerner's model of the Universe from collapsing?

It has been known since the 1920's that any static model of the Universe (Lerner's model is static) will collapse.
Einstein's introduction of the cosmological constant addressed this issue.

(2) How does Lerner's model explain the end of greatness distribution.

This is easily explained if the Universe is expanding.

(3) How is Lerner's model consistent with the second law of thermodynamics.

The second law states the Universe will eventually reach thermal equilibrium and will only be composed of photons and elementary particles.

Since Lerner's model is infinitely old it has had "enough time" to reach this state.
No such problems exist with an expanding Universe of finite age.
 
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SelfSim

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Yep .. as predicted ... 'twas a classic Michael response. (Yawn!)
Oh well one more go at it .. here goes:
Let's see if that's actually true, shall we? Let me see you or ben actually demonstrate ben's first claim. Name one other area of physics or science that requires 4 unique and different "hypothetical entities" to work correctly, all of which defy any empirical cause/effect justification in the lab. Name just one other popular scientific theory that needs such a wide range of various fudge factors. Ben seems to believe that scientific theories *routinely* involved multiple hypothetical constructs, so let's see him name a few of them. I seriously doubt he can do that or you can do that.
Nonetheless, LCDM is regarded as mainstream science because it is investigated by following science's well-known operational process. That process alone, is what distinguishes science ... and not your particular dislike of it pursuing its testable concepts.
Michael said:
That's just a ridiculous strawman. Eric and I simply have no empirical evidence to suggest that other exotic long lived particles or exotic energy exists in nature based on all the evidence that has been collected from every test and experiment ever performed on matter. More importantly, we have no need for anything else to exist in order to explain events in space. Period.
How can you test for the not-yet-known events which 'occur in space', in a terrestrial lab which is incapable of replicating the conditions already known to occur in space? Theory is used by mainstream as the guide for researching these aspects .. but as usual both yourself and Eric, disallow such guiding theory ... which shows you are not following the scientific process.

Michael said:
None of the rest of those comments are relevant or accurate. What information do we have to support the standard model of particle physics asks your hero ben? We have the combined data of 100 years of various particle physics "experiments" for starters! Ben has the whole chain of evidence thing *backwards* as it relates to science. What evidence does ben have to support "cold dark matter" after spending *billions* of dollars in the lab looking for such evidence? None! Even his 2006 baryonic galaxy mass estimates that were used to justify the lab experiments in the first place have since been shown to be utterly FUBAR.
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15850

You can also add CresstII results to the growing list of CDM *failures* in the lab.
The ridiculously brain-dead idea that the unknowns of the Cosmos MUST reveal themselves in terrestrial labs, which we know are incapable of reproducing the extremes necessary to constrain such experiments, is the issue which distinguishes this as being distinct from science. And then you claim you don't have a problem with what (you think) 'science' is, eh?
(You're joking, right?)

Michael said:
Translation: Our own DM experiments broke all our DM mass estimates, so we're inventing a second "virgin birth" of inflation. Who says miracles cannot happen twice in a row? :) Give me a break! The Lambda-CDM model is *over constrained* to the point of absurdity. All those mass estimate problems in their 2006 "dark matter" paper have to simply be *ignored/denied*, only because they are incapable of modifying the percentages without messing up all their claims related to nucleosynthesis. It's like one gigantic house of supernatural cards. If you remove one piece, the whole thing crashes to the ground.
... or reveals the not-yet-known .. which is how science makes use of these models COMBINED WITH the empirical evidence. Of course, EU/PC/Michael's 'science' denies the utility of theoretical models .. (which of course, automatically distinguishes it from being science)

Michael said:
What pure hypocrisy. Astronomers looked at that 2006 lensing study and they instantly decided that their mass estimates were "perfect", so they *invented* a "fix" to their broken mass estimate problems by inventing an entirely new form of matter! Give me a break! They did the same thing with dark energy based on SN1A observations after *assuming* that they l were all the same "standard candles". We have since found out that they are *not* as standard as first advertised, but we're stuck with dark energy anyway. In every case the mainstream took an isolated observation from space and simply "made up" a "new form of physics" to explain it, starting with Guth and his invisible inflation deity. Ben has *absolutely* no right to complain about that issue *at all*!
So 'observations from space' are also excluded from your idea of 'science' too? That rules out all of Astronomy and Astrophysics too, eh?

Michael said:
Translation: You're between a mathematical rock and a physics hard spot because you can't find any mathematical error in that last paper I handed you, nor can you find any mathematical or physics error in the entire body of Alfven's published works. We both know why you won't deal with the math.
Well, seeing as math is used by science as its testable model, and it doesn't appear in a lab, using it to demonstrate any science to you would be pointless .. and yet you now use it to glorify an individual's 'word'. Frankly, Alfven is just another of history's human scientists as far as I'm concerned .. and he's not around to defend his personal opinions in the light of modern evidence.. so who cares?

Michael said:
Holy Cow! Edwin Hubble would be rolling over in his grave listening to the mainstream claiming on TV that "Hubble proved the universe is expanding". He personally *rejected* that "subjective interpretation" of the the photon redshift phenomenon. Hubble promoted a static universe concept and a tired light concept.
Ahh .. deifying Hubble now as well, eh? Again, who cares about personal opinions he had prior to subsequent discoveries?

Michael said:
Einstein would be *utterly horrified* to have you folks stuffing magical "dark energy" into his a "blunder" theory and then trying to ride his GR coattails anyway.
Well, that would only be because you say so ... and you aren't doing any science, so who cares? (I don't care .. why should I?)

Michael said:
Alfven personally called the mainstream's misuse of his MHD formulas to support "magnetic reconnection" theory a form of pure "pseudoscience". You folks have no right at all to complain about anyone in the EU/PC community latching onto Alfven's work! Talk about irony overload.
Well as I recall at our last encounter, you demonstrated a major, rather bizarre brain-blockage about reconnection in a vacuum. You ran away from that discussion, too .. so your glorification of Alfven's frozen-in-time opinions is meaningless as far as real science is concerned.

Michael said:
There may be different solar models to choose from within the overall umbrella of EU/PC theory, but Alfven's work on the application of circuit theory to plasma in space is universally accepted by all EU/PC proponents, and we typically heed Alfven's advice about the "pseudoscience' of reconnection theory.
'This is the word of lord Alfven', eh? Hilarious!

Once again, Alfven's models of plasma behaviours, described in the semantics of mathematics, (which of course originate from outside of 'the lab'), must be ruled out by your descriptions of what you refer to as 'science', yes?

Michael said:
The mainstream claim that EU/PC theory isn't mathematically supported is pure nonsense. I handed you a paper from 2014 that demonstrates that tired light and static universe theories explain various observations from space *as well as* anything that the mainstream has put together to date, even *with their four supernatural sidekicks*! A simple application of Occam's razor destroys Lambda-CDM.
You have handed me multiple tired light, scattering, etc papers, which, when considered together as an explanation for cosmological redsift, totally contradict each other. This was pointed out to you several years ago but you continue to ignore it.

Occam's Razor is a philosophical principle used for guidance when all things are equal. The consensus view is that are not, in this case. This is in spite of yours (and Lerner's) delusions, caused by personal denials of the evidence.
 
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Michael

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Nonetheless, LCDM is regarded as mainstream science because it is investigated by following science's well-known operational process.

The word "nonetheless" is a tacit admission that Lerner is correct in his criticism of LCDM. *NO* other area of physics or "science" requires *four* supernatural constructs to make it work. Note that not one of those four supernatural constructs in LCDM shows up in a single useful consumer product, nor do any of them have a use outside of *one* specific, and otherwise *useless* cosmology theory.

That process alone, is what distinguishes science ... and not your particular dislike of it pursuing its testable concepts.

We "tested" your CDM claims at LHC, LUX, PandaX, Xenon100, AMDx, CresstII, and electron roundness "tests" as well, and guess what? Your *predictions* about CDM turned out to be completely *useless* in the lab.

At least Birkeland's cathode terella actually works as advertised when it's plugged in. :)

How can you test for the not-yet-known events which 'occur in space', in a terrestrial lab which is incapable of replicating the conditions already known to occur in space?

We can heat plasma up to *billions* of degrees here on Earth. Exactly what "conditions" are you concerned about? I'll grant you that we will have to scale up gravity, and or scale up the energy exchanges in spacetime, but those are just *scaling* issues related to *known* and *demonstrated* physics.

Theory is used by mainstream as the guide for researching these aspects .. but as usual both yourself and Eric, disallow such guiding theory ... which shows you are not following the scientific process.

Eric simply rightly points out that no other area of science requires a menagerie of invisible junk to explain anything. In fact I would argue that 95 percent of Lambda-CDM is still "unexplained", and represent nothing more than placeholder terms for pure human ignorance. LCDM is so far out in left field compared to any other area of "science", it's in a supernatural class by itself.

With a simple switch to EU/PC theory, cosmology theory immediately falls in line with every other branch of "science" and every other area of physics, including the standard particle physics model that has passed every "test" to date.

The ridiculously brain-dead idea

Here's where you ventured into the personal attack zone. Yawn.

that the unknowns of the Cosmos MUST reveal themselves in terrestrial labs, which we know are incapable of reproducing the extremes necessary to constrain such experiments, is the issue which distinguishes this as being distinct from science. And then you claim you don't have a problem with what (you think) 'science' is, eh?

All other areas of "science" are lab testable. Why should LCDM get a free pass? We can't even "lab test" "space expansion" in controlled experimentation on Earth, and that's just the *first* supernatural construct. The one really "lab testable" part of LCDM is CMD, and that's been a *complete disaster* in the lab, with mathematical models biting the dust every week or two, and new experiments reporting *nothing*, over and over and over and over and over again. We've now spent billions of dollars on the CDM boondoggle snipe hunt and we found exactly nothing. LCDM has no real "predictive" value whatsoever. Almost every single bit of it has been *postdicted* to get a mathematical fit to a previously known observation.

... or reveals the not-yet-known .. which is how science makes use of these models COMBINED WITH the empirical evidence. Of course, EU/PC/Michael's 'science' denies the utility of theoretical models .. (which of course, automatically distinguishes it from being science)

You simply could not be more wrong. Those 2006 lensing studies *should* have made you toss out your original baryonic mass estimates and start all over again coming up with new mass estimates. Instead you *assumed* that your baryonic mass estimates were "perfect" to the last percent or two, and you quite literally made up "fudge factor gap filler" to describe the shear ignorance that was really related to your pitiful mass estimates. Over the course of the following decade, you folks then when on a billion dollar spending spree in search of your mythical, magical invisible matter fudge factor.

Over the course of that same decade, we found out that in that 2006 lensing study that claimed to find "proof" of dark matter, you *actually* just grossly underestimated the amount of light ever galaxy emits due to all the "scattering" that you underestimated. We also found out that you *massively* underestimated the number of whole stars in various galaxies, somewhere between 3 and 20 times depending on the type of galaxy and the size of the star in question. We also found out in 2012 where all those "missing baryons" were sitting, namely *surrounding* every single galaxy in the form of *hot plasma*, not supernatural forms of matter. Every single shred of evidence has demonstrated that there never was any "proof of dark matter", just proof of *pitifully flawed* baryonic mass estimates. That has been demonstrated over and over and over again, both in the lab, and based on stellar count studies done since 2006.

So 'observations from space' are also excluded from your idea of 'science' too? That rules out all of Astronomy and Astrophysics too, eh?

You guys simply handwave away any "observations from space" that you don't like, just like the "observation" that you've been miscounting entire stars in those stellar mass estimates. You simply ignore those 'observations' when it suits you.

You've also ignored the observation from space that "standard candles" aren't really as standard as first claimed. You've ignored the observation of hemispheric variation in the background radiation that Guth *never* predicted with *his* brand of supernatural inflation. I'm sure someone will postdict a new fit of course.....

Well, seeing as math is used by science as its testable model, and it doesn't appear in a lab, using it to demonstrate any science to you would be pointless .. and yet you now use it to glorify an individual's 'word'. Frankly, Alfven is just another of history's human scientists as far as I'm concerned .. and he's not around to defend his personal opinions in the light of modern evidence.. so who cares?

He cared, and I still care, and anyone who appreciates empirical physics should care. His work is being *abused* by the mainstream to this very day. Alfven called magnetic reconnection theory "pseudoscience", and he made it obsolete with his double layer paper and circuit theory. The maintream constantly puts the magnetic cart in front of the electric horse and they can't understand why it doesn' work, and why the corona is hot. Birkeland built a working model where he put the *electric horse* in front of the magnetic cart, and guess what he "predicted" was the heat source of the plasma around the sun? The mainstream is still struggling with 'explanations' that have already been *lab demonstrated* over 100 years ago. That's why you *should* care.

Ahh .. deifying Hubble now as well, eh? Again, who cares about personal opinions he had prior to subsequent discoveries?

So it's fine by you that the mainstream abuses MHD theory with pure "pseudoscience" according to the author of MHD theory, and it's fine by you that the mainstream simply *lies* when it claims things like "Hubble discovered that the universe is expanding"? Give me a break! Where is the concept of truth in advertising in the field of cosmology?

Well, that would only be because you say so ... and you aren't doing any science, so who cares? (I don't care .. why should I?)

Because it actually works in the lab, and it's based on pure empirical physics like every other branch of physics, that's why.


Well as I recall at our last encounter, you demonstrated a major, rather bizarre brain-blockage about reconnection in a vacuum. You ran away from that discussion, too .. so your glorification of Alfven's frozen-in-time opinions is meaningless as far as real science is concerned.

LOL! I'm sorry, but that's simply laughable. MR theory *requires* the transfer of magnetic field energy into *particle acceleration*. There's a *necessary requirement* to transfer magnetic field energy into particle energy in the plasma physics process that is known as "magnetic reconnection". Your dynamic duo (Clinger and RC) at ISF were yammering on about reconnection in a vacuum because they had read a total of *zero* textbooks on MHD theory. They then concocted up some lame website that claimed that plasma particle acceleration was an *entirely optional* process in "magnetic reconnection" theory! That's pure nonsense, and it's still pure nonsense. Without particle acceleration, there is a zero transfer rate of energy from the magnetic field into particle movement, therefore *zero* amount of "magnetic reconnection" is going on. The only thing going on in Clinger's lame website is *magnetic flux in a vacuum*. For crying out loud, your superheroes can't even figure out the difference between ordinary magnetic flux in a vacuum, and the charged particle acceleration process that is known as "magnetic reconnection" in plasma! Oy Vey. They've run and run and run from that conversation, and they've even banned me to stop me from talking about it.

'This is the word of lord Alfven', eh? Hilarious!

What's hilarious is the fact that 95 percent of LCDM claims amount to placeholder terms for human ignorance and the mainstream's mathematical models used to describe the behaviors of plasma are pure "pseudoscience" according to the author of MHD theory. You're abusing his work on a daily basis, and you're even flippant about it. You can't even describe the movements of plasma without MHD theory because you folks *refuse* to embrace circuit theory. Effectively 100 percent of your so called "knowledge" is either a placeholder term for ignorance, or pure pseudoscience. That's the hilarious part. There's literally no "knowledge" at all going on in astronomy today. It's 100 percent pure rubbish.

Once again, Alfven's models of plasma behaviours, described in the semantics of mathematics, (which of course originate from outside of 'the lab'), must be ruled out by your descriptions of what you refer to as 'science', yes?

Nope. Alfven used circuit theory both in the lab, and also as it relates to events in space. At no time did he have to deviate from anything that couldn't be demonstrated in a lab, or simply scaled from something we can do in a lab.

You have handed me multiple tired light, scattering, etc papers, which, when considered together as an explanation for cosmological redsift, totally contradict each other.

Like various inflation models don't contradict each other and "predict" different outcomes? Please. We *know* that there are *multiple* types of inelastic scattering that can and do cause photons redshift when light propagates through plasma. Without experimenting further, we simply cannot be sure *which* models are a "best fit" yet, both in the lab, and in space. So what if there's contradiction in EU/PC theory? There are *many* brands of inflation, and different models of "cold dark matter". So what if they are contradictory? Should we falsify LCDM on the same grounds?

This was pointed out to you several years ago but you continue to ignore it.

Of course I ignored it, just like you would ignore it if I tried to rule out CDM theory based on the fact it has contradictory models, and no lab evidence to support any of them. Why should I play by a different set of rules than you play by?

Occam's Razor is a philosophical principle used for guidance when all things are equal.

You're right. In fact, even if we count tired light as 1 unknown in EU/PC theory, it's still 4 to 1 against your claim, so it's not really even a fair fight. You lose *big* time right off the bat. You're not even in the ballpark with *four* supernatural fudge factors, two or three of which defy laboratory testing *ever*.

The consensus view is that are not, in this case. This is in spite of yours (and Lerner's) delusions, caused by personal denials of the evidence.

The only one in denial of the evidence are the LCDM proponents:

http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15850

You can now add the CresstII NULL results to the long and growing list of "evidence" that you can't handle or deal with.
 
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Michael

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Ok Mr Mozina the great religious defender of the Lerner faith.

Lerner's "faith" amounts to faith in empirical physics. If that's a "religion", ok, call me a defender of the empirical physic "religion".

Please answer the following questions.
(1) What prevents Lerner's model of the Universe from collapsing?

According to Birkeland, all suns act as a cathode with respect to the surrounding interstellar plasma envelope, so I'd guess that "charge repulsion" might play a minor role. I'm sure that persistent EM fields and object movement (AKA gravity) play a role in stability factors. Why doesn't the Earth collapse into the sun in *any* model?

It has been known since the 1920's that any static model of the Universe (Lerner's model is static) will collapse.
Einstein's introduction of the cosmological constant addressed this issue.

The constant he introduced only had to keep the universe "stable", and could be anything *known to man*, including EM fields. Unlike LCDM proponents, Einstein never tried to create a new force of nature with his non zero constant.

(2) How does Lerner's model explain the end of greatness distribution.

I don't know. You should ask him. I would assume that he just begins his theory with a reasonably homogeneously distributed *infinite* universe. By the way, in an infinite universe, it's unclear that we really need any "non zero" constants to get it to remain "stable". There's no place with less gravity than anywhere else in a homogeneously distributed infinite universe.

This is easily explained if the Universe is expanding.

If by "easily" you mean without metaphysical fudge factors, it's apparently not that "easy". Object movement would also constitute a "type" of expanding universe, but it won't do the trick with respect to redshift, so evidently it's not really that "easy".

(3) How is Lerner's model consistent with the second law of thermodynamics.

Well, I'd imagine that in an infinite universe the energy emitted by suns and such is eventually recycled somewhere. Does gravity defy the second law of thermodynamics simply by providing "order" out of chaos?

The second law states the Universe will eventually reach thermal equilibrium and will only be composed of photons and elementary particles.

Gravity alone would preclude it from every being in perfect thermal equilibrium everywhere. How do you *know* that all current forms of matter *must* turn to photons or subatomic particles?

Since Lerner's model is infinitely old it has had "enough time" to reach this state.

I think your premise is flawed. It assumes that something like a photon which is emitted by one sun cannot be absorbed and become part of another sun. It also pretty much ignores the role of gravity and EM fields in terms of organizing matter into "clumps".

No such problems exist with an expanding Universe of finite age.

You just end up with a "where did all that original energy come from in the first place" question about 13.8 billion years ago, so you really didn't answer anything other than to push back the question into the past.

FYI, Alfven actually proposed a cyclical type of visible universe composed of matter and antimatter that simply cycled (due to gravity) between expansion and contraction cycles. It "might" suffer from the complaints you mentioned, but less so Lerner's model.
 
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Michael

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You should do that, and then you could stay there, and not be here. ;)

FYI, I've actually started posting here at CRUS before I even became interested in EU/PC theory, and before I "lost my faith" in LCDM. :) Sorry. You're just stuck with me here. :)
 
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sjastro

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According to Birkeland, all suns act as a cathode with respect to the surrounding interstellar plasma envelope, so I'd guess that "charge repulsion" might play a minor role. I'm sure that persistent EM fields and object movement (AKA gravity) play a role in stability factors.

Wrong it demonstrates you do not have even a basic knowledge of plasma physics.
Go read up on debye lengths and how electromagnetic forces are woefully short ranged and cannot prevent collapse.

Why doesn't the Earth collapse into the sun in *any* model?

Go read up on circular motion, centripetal forces, tangential forces in elliptical trajectories, Newton's inverse square force central law etc.

The constant he introduced only had to keep the universe "stable", and could be anything *known to man*, including EM fields. Unlike LCDM proponents, Einstein never tried to create a new force of nature with his non zero constant.

Completely and utterly wrong.
Go read up on the static de Sitter Universe model where Einstein introduced the cosmological constant as an opposing force to gravity to prevent collapse.

Well, I'd imagine that in an infinite universe the energy emitted by suns and such is eventually recycled somewhere. Does gravity defy the second law of thermodynamics simply by providing "order" out of chaos?

Wrong go read a text on basic thermodynamics.

Gravity alone would preclude it from every being in perfect thermal equilibrium everywhere. How do you *know* that all current forms of matter *must* turn to photons or subatomic particles?

Emphatically wrong. Does gravity effect the heat flow from a hot to cold body?

Go read up on particle physics theories such as GUT (will be way beyond your ability to comprehend). GUT suggests that hadrons (protons and bonded neutrons in nuclei are examples) are unstable and the only stable particles in the Universe are leptons (the electron is an example) and photons.

I think your premise is flawed. It assumes that something like a photon which is emitted by one sun cannot be absorbed and become part of another sun. It also pretty much ignores the role of gravity and EM fields in terms of organizing matter into "clumps"
.

Wrong it is not flawed.
An infinite Universe is older than the half life of any hadron.
Stellar nuclei are composed of hadrons.
Stars should have decayed in an infinite Universe.

Simple logic at work.
 
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Michael

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Wrong it demonstrates you do not have even a basic knowledge of plasma physics.

Have you even read single textbook on MHD theory? Yes or no?

Go read up on debye lengths and how electromagnetic forces are woefully short ranged and cannot prevent collapse.

Pure handwave. You have no idea what you're talking about either. Have you bothered to even read any of Alfven's work on plasma cosmology theory yet, or are you just winging this as you go? EM field related activity isn't "short ranged" in any of Alfven's work.

Go read up on circular motion, centripetal forces, tangential forces in elliptical trajectories, Newton's inverse square force central law etc.

Ya, I know. That motion is exactly why things don't necessarily just "collapse" due to gravity. That was my whole point. Sheesh. You're on a rampage apparently.

Completely and utterly wrong.
Go read up on the static de Sitter Universe model where Einstein introduced the cosmological constant as an opposing force to gravity to prevent collapse.

Another handwave. Please quote Einstein ever using the term "dark energy".

Wrong go read a text on basic thermodynamics.

Yawn. This whole posts looks to be nothing but personal insults and nonsense.

Emphatically wrong. Does gravity effect the heat flow from a hot to cold body?

Is there a point to this conversation? Apparently you've already made up your mind and nothing anyone says matters to you anyway. You're simply tossing out insults and ignoring the answers that you asked for.

Go read up on particle physics theories such as GUT (will be way beyond your ability to comprehend).

Yawn. Every single one of your posts includes one or more personal insults. Do you even know how to have a "fair" or mature conversation? How old are you anyway?

Stars should have decayed in an infinite Universe.

Lot's of stars have come and gone. That's the whole point. There isn't much point however in all your insult nonsense.
 
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sjastro

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Wow Michael I'm glad Murby supplied a list mental health providers because you seem to be suffering from a persecution complex.
Disagreeing with you and providing suggestions on how to plug those gaps in your knowledge isn't a personal attack.

I wondered how long it would take you to dredge up the classic line have I read a book on MHD?
Well in fact I have.
Since you seem to be an authority on the subject I'm struggling with a particular concept.
Can you explain to me how in a plasma force free field the magnetic fields are helical in nature.
The application of the Euler-Lagrange equations doesn't make sense to me.
Your assistance would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Michael

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Wow Michael I'm glad Murby supplied a list mental health providers because you seem to be suffering from a persecution complex.
Disagreeing with you and providing suggestions on how to plug those gaps in your knowledge isn't a personal attack.

I wondered how long it would take you to dredge up the classic line have I read a book on MHD?
Well in fact I have.
Since you seem to be an authority on the subject I'm struggling with a particular concept.
Can you explain to me how in a plasma force free field the magnetic fields are helical in nature.
The application of the Euler-Lagrange equations doesn't make sense to me.
Your assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Well, if you really want to understand the helical behaviors of plasma, I'd suggest you buy a plasma ball at the store, plug it in, and turn it on. The *current* is also partially responsible for that "helical" shape that you're talking about, not just "magnetism". You'll also see that those plasma threads are substantially longer than a debye length. The magnetic fields simply act to "pinch" the current into well defined columns of moving plasma, but the charge particle movement in each column is also influence by *electric* fields that actually do all the work and sustain those helical shaped plasma columns. That's also why the mainstream can't explain the heat source of the corona. They're trying to explain *everything* with "magnetism". Why do you think Alfven used *circuit* theory instead of MHD theory to explain coronal loops?
 
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sjastro

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Well, if you really want to understand the helical behaviors of plasma, I'd suggest you buy a plasma ball at the store, plug it in, and turn it on. The *current* is also partially responsible for that "helical" shape that you're talking about, not just "magnetism". You'll also see that those plasma threads are substantially longer than a debye length. The magnetic fields simply act to "pinch" the current into well defined columns of moving plasma, but the charge particle movement in each column is also influence by *electric* fields that actually do all the work and sustain those helical shaped plasma columns. That's also why the mainstream can't explain the heat source of the corona. They're trying to explain *everything* with "magnetism". Why do you think Alfven used *circuit* theory instead of MHD theory to explain coronal loops?

You are so dumb you can't even recognize blatant sarcasm.
And you are even more stupid inventing brainless word salad and trying to pass off as an intelligent informed discussion.
"You'll also see that those plasma threads are substantially longer than a debye length."
What an absolute classic.
 
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Michael

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"You'll also see that those plasma threads are substantially longer than a debye length."
What an absolute classic.

Actually, I'll give you that one. I guess that's what I get for posting at 1:30 AM and not proofreading. :)
 
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sjastro

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Actually, I'll give you that one. I guess that's what I get for posting at 1:30 AM and not proofreading.

You should retract the entire post because it has no relevance to plasma force free fields. Plasma force free fields cannot exist inside rigid structures due to the plasma pressure on the wall exceeding the plasma magnetic pressure, which makes your plasma ball example complete nonsense.

Rather than admitting you know nothing about plasma force free fields, you created a pack of lies which is nonsense in itself.
 
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Michael

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You should retract the entire post because it has no relevance to plasma force free fields. Plasma force free fields cannot exist inside rigid structures due to the plasma pressure on the wall exceeding the plasma magnetic pressure, which makes your plasma ball example complete nonsense.

Rather than admitting you know nothing about plasma force free fields, you created a pack of lies which is nonsense in itself.

Er, no. In fact the primary reason that the mainstream does not understand the heat source of the corona, or any of the solar physics "mysteries" is directly related to the fact that they *ignore* the role of the electric fields that drive those processes.

Do you even know how to post a single post without taking the low road?
 
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Davian

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Do you even know how to post a single post without taking the low road?
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sjastro

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Er, no. In fact the primary reason that the mainstream does not understand the heat source of the corona, or any of the solar physics "mysteries" is directly related to the fact that they *ignore* the role of the electric fields that drive those processes.

Do you even know how to post a single post without taking the low road?

So let me see you not knowing anything about force free fields is because "...... the primary reason that the mainstream does not understand the heat source of the corona, or any of the solar physics "mysteries" is directly related to the fact that they *ignore* the role of the electric fields that drive those processes."

You are doing a wonderful job showing us why you are an idiot, I'm only stating the obvious.
 
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Michael

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So let me see you not knowing anything about force free fields is because "...... the primary reason that the mainstream does not understand the heat source of the corona, or any of the solar physics "mysteries" is directly related to the fact that they *ignore* the role of the electric fields that drive those processes."

You are doing a wonderful job showing us why you are an idiot, I'm only stating the obvious.

Birkeland "explained" the heat source of the corona over 100 years ago, *and* he simulated it his lab in real experiments that actually produced real results and a host of real predictions that have since been verified by many satellites in space.


The mainstream remains mystified by these simple processes specifically because they willfully and intentionally ignore the electric field that exists between the surface of the sun, and the heliosphere.

I'm sure some ignorant haters called Birkeland an idiot too, but alas Chapman's claims bit the dust over time, even if Birkeland did not live to see it.

Your sleazy personal attacks are pointless. If I had a thin skin, I would have quit a long time ago. No amount of name calling makes up for your lack of a scientific argument, and your lack of a working model, something Birkeland did over 100 years ago.
 
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Michael

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I really don't see much research value in LCDM experiments with their cold dark matter claims. There is ample evidence that 'cold dark matter' claims are the byproduct of *bad baryonic mass estimates in 2006*, and nothing else. We've already spent *billions* of dollars supposedly "testing" their glorious mathematical models, only to have them be falsified, one right after another after another, after another, and there's been no hint of long lived exotic forms of matter at LHC. Apparently "no" isn't an option, or "no" would be the answer to the question: "Are exotic forms of matter necessary to explain events in space"?

http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15850

How many laboratory falsifications of a myriad of potential mathematical models does it take to kill a hypothetical entity claim that has been shown to be related to *bad mass estimates* used in 2006?
 
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