Ladies Only, Please.

[By Grace]

She gives birth and counts 7 days "according to the days of the separation" then on the 8th day the child is circumcised and she counts 33 days from then to finish her purification.
Any woman that has given birth knows that after you have a baby you are not blood free, these are not 'white days' so this gives 40 days for a male child for the bleeding to stop. Not 5-7 dyas then count seven more then circumcise then add 33.

This is a good point. To my knowledge, even rabbinic halacha doesn't require an additional 7 "white" days after the 40 days of bleeding are over following childbirth. So the explanation that the actual cleansing takes place only during "white" days apparently doesn't apply here. Why would it apply with niddah and not childbirth?

 

[Henaynei]

I'm sorry Henaynei, I respect your opinion and learning on this but that doesn't make much sense to me. How do you figure that the man would sin? How would he even know when a woman was in Niddah? Also for those intent on the Rabbinic orthodoxy of this halacha wouldn't they be in a shul that had a separate section for the women? Isn't that one of the reasons for having that separate section?

Thank you for your kind words, even in disagreement - you honor me and you honor HaShem in your gentleness

According to Torah, transgression/sin in ignorance is still transgression/sin

Some folks attend shul who are very observant but the shul members may be less so because it is the only shul around And even if there is a separation during the service there is not likely to be one during the seudah or meal that the community might share - or there might be a class on learning Hebrew or any number of other issues or topics where their might be mixed seating

b'Shalom
Henaynei

 

[Ahavah]

I just think most of these laws are common sense. A normal Woman who has her Happy time..usually lasts for 7 days. Usually...She really isn't in the mood to make love to her husband anyway.

Also..we have to remember...back in the day..they didn't have tampons..or any other modern forms of protection...so anything they touched..probably got dirty....and considering it was blood ...it was especaily unclean. Even in these days..getting blood on something is not a good thing. Blood can carry sickness.

When a woman has a baby...2-3 months is needed to recoperate usually..unless you're wonder woman. Nursing mothers really enjoy these months for resting too. Hopefully the husband is understanding and not selfish with his own desires.

So what I'm trying to say is...Following Torah is not just a "Law"..but it's an everyday common sense. Just me....

 

[Sephania]

Todah achoti. I am still in the dark though? I thought this time was a separation, setting apart so the woman wouldn't even attend if they were Niddah? This is my understanding of it ( though I could be wrong entirely ) but if she is there during the 7 'white days' how could she cause a defilement?


_____________________________
Always searching to please HaShem.

~Z

 

[visionary]

Is that what the Lord wants? Does He not want us to see past the commands, the ritual laws, and see the logic, common sense, and in this case the health reasons for the commands?

 

[Ahavah]

Is that what the Lord wants? Does He not want us to see past the commands, the ritual laws, and see the logic, common sense, and in this case the health reasons for the commands?

Yes...I agree. The Torah is written on our hearts..and becomes part of our every day walking life. Common sense. Just me....

 

[Ahavah]

Niddah – Women’s Cycles



The full instruction on Niddah appears only once in Torah. In the book of Leviticus, the 19th through 33rd verses of the 15th chapter discuss a woman’s menstruation, ‘uncleanness’, and the instructions for niddah, which means ‘separation’. While ‘unclean’ can be symbolic of sin, menstruation has nothing to do with sin. There is nothing ‘wrong’ with menstruation. [Menstruation has been incorrectly translated as ‘sickness’ in some places in the scriptures.]

The word niddah [Strong’s 5079] has also been translated as “flowers” in the King James Version of the Bible. In that context, it means menstrual blood.

Leviticus 18:19, 20:18, and 15:24 instruct the man not to have intercourse with his wife during her unclean time. The passage in Leviticus 15:28 is generally translated to mean, once a woman’s menstrual discharge has stopped, she should be considered unclean for an additional seven days. However, others translate it as being unclean for seven days from the time the menstrual discharge commences.

The people of Elohim were not to follow the practices of the Egyptians, Canaanites, or others. Among their practices was the ritual of drinking menstrual blood.



Physical reasons

In order to understand the physical reasons behind niddah, we must understand the nature of menstruation, as well as the menstrual cycle. There are physical reasons for not touching or being touched intimately during menstruation.

Menstrual fluid is a combination of discarded cells of the endometrium, mucous, blood, and bacteria. Menstrual blood also contains whatever viruses may be in a woman’s bloodstream [such as HIV, Hepatitis, or other communicable viruses]. If menstrual blood ‘backs up’ into the Fallopian tubes it causes infection, known as pelvic inflammatory disease. One of the physical reasons for avoiding contact with menstrual discharge is because it is potentially infectious.

Another physical reason for abstaining from intercourse during menstruation has to do with the changes that occur in the vagina during that time. The vaginal lining partially sloughs off, also, and is reduced to the very thin basal layer. This thin layer is fragile, and very vulnerable to micro-trauma and tearing from friction [such as is produced during intercourse]. During other times in the month, the vaginal lining is three layers thick, and relative unsusceptible to injury.



Spiritual reasons

In the spiritual sense, niddah is symbolic of impurity. The word ‘unclean’ means ritual impurity. It is emblematic of that which is wasteful, unfulfilled, unprepared, etc. In order to understand the spiritual reasons for niddah, we need to recognize some symbolic or spiritual things about the womb, and the cycle from menstruation to ovulation.

The womb is a vessel, and can be compared to the mind, the heart, or one’s life, in general. The womb is literally a container. At times during the menstrual cycle, the uterus is fertile and receptive to seed, and able to foster growth and new life. During menstruation, however, the uterus is unprepared to receive and sustain life. The menstrual cycle is a type and shadow of the cycles we go through during our lives.

The uterus, as a metaphor of our mind or heart, is either prepared or unprepared to receive the seed of Elohim. The seed may be compared with the spirit, the beginning of the knowledge of the plan of redemption, etc. The menstrual uterus is like an unprepared or unreceptive heart or mind.



The Moon and the Menstrual Cycle

There is a very close relationship between the moon and menstruation. In our present culture, women commonly refer to menstruation as having their ‘monthly’. Some more poetically refer to it as their ‘moon time’. Our word ‘month’ comes from the same root-word as ‘moon’. The word menstruation comes from the Greek word menus, which means ‘moon’ and ‘power’, and based upon men, which means ‘month’. The Hebrew word for month is the same as new moon. The womb in its phases is also linked to the moon in her phases. [The Hebrew words for moon, yareach and levanah, are feminine.]

Ovulation is likened to the full moon.

The monthly onset of menstruation may be likened to the new moon – a time of introspection, preparation [the empty & purged vessel]. It is a time of starting again, renewal, and a time that may be set apart to devote extra time to spiritual pursuits.

The period of niddah was to be followed by mikvah – ritual purification [much like baptism]. When the woman bathed at the conclusion of her menses, she became ritually pure. Traditional Jewish communities built a mikvah area even before they would build a synagogue.

 

[visionary]

This is a must read for everyone who wants to know why God gave these commandments regarding womanly functions/cycles.

Niddah – Women’s Cycles



The full instruction on Niddah appears only once in Torah. In the book of Leviticus, the 19th through 33rd verses of the 15th chapter discuss a woman’s menstruation, ‘uncleanness’, and the instructions for niddah, which means ‘separation’. While ‘unclean’ can be symbolic of sin, menstruation has nothing to do with sin. There is nothing ‘wrong’ with menstruation. [Menstruation has been incorrectly translated as ‘sickness’ in some places in the scriptures.]

The word niddah [Strong’s 5079] has also been translated as “flowers” in the King James Version of the Bible. In that context, it means menstrual blood.

Leviticus 18:19, 20:18, and 15:24 instruct the man not to have intercourse with his wife during her unclean time. The passage in Leviticus 15:28 is generally translated to mean, once a woman’s menstrual discharge has stopped, she should be considered unclean for an additional seven days. However, others translate it as being unclean for seven days from the time the menstrual discharge commences.

The people of Elohim were not to follow the practices of the Egyptians, Canaanites, or others. Among their practices was the ritual of drinking menstrual blood.



Physical reasons

In order to understand the physical reasons behind niddah, we must understand the nature of menstruation, as well as the menstrual cycle. There are physical reasons for not touching or being touched intimately during menstruation.

Menstrual fluid is a combination of discarded cells of the endometrium, mucous, blood, and bacteria. Menstrual blood also contains whatever viruses may be in a woman’s bloodstream [such as HIV, Hepatitis, or other communicable viruses]. If menstrual blood ‘backs up’ into the Fallopian tubes it causes infection, known as pelvic inflammatory disease. One of the physical reasons for avoiding contact with menstrual discharge is because it is potentially infectious.

Another physical reason for abstaining from intercourse during menstruation has to do with the changes that occur in the vagina during that time. The vaginal lining partially sloughs off, also, and is reduced to the very thin basal layer. This thin layer is fragile, and very vulnerable to micro-trauma and tearing from friction [such as is produced during intercourse]. During other times in the month, the vaginal lining is three layers thick, and relative unsusceptible to injury.



Spiritual reasons

In the spiritual sense, niddah is symbolic of impurity. The word ‘unclean’ means ritual impurity. It is emblematic of that which is wasteful, unfulfilled, unprepared, etc. In order to understand the spiritual reasons for niddah, we need to recognize some symbolic or spiritual things about the womb, and the cycle from menstruation to ovulation.

The womb is a vessel, and can be compared to the mind, the heart, or one’s life, in general. The womb is literally a container. At times during the menstrual cycle, the uterus is fertile and receptive to seed, and able to foster growth and new life. During menstruation, however, the uterus is unprepared to receive and sustain life. The menstrual cycle is a type and shadow of the cycles we go through during our lives.

The uterus, as a metaphor of our mind or heart, is either prepared or unprepared to receive the seed of Elohim. The seed may be compared with the spirit, the beginning of the knowledge of the plan of redemption, etc. The menstrual uterus is like an unprepared or unreceptive heart or mind.



The Moon and the Menstrual Cycle

There is a very close relationship between the moon and menstruation. In our present culture, women commonly refer to menstruation as having their ‘monthly’. Some more poetically refer to it as their ‘moon time’. Our word ‘month’ comes from the same root-word as ‘moon’. The word menstruation comes from the Greek word menus, which means ‘moon’ and ‘power’, and based upon men, which means ‘month’. The Hebrew word for month is the same as new moon. The womb in its phases is also linked to the moon in her phases. [The Hebrew words for moon, yareach and levanah, are feminine.]

Ovulation is likened to the full moon.

The monthly onset of menstruation may be likened to the new moon – a time of introspection, preparation [the empty & purged vessel]. It is a time of starting again, renewal, and a time that may be set apart to devote extra time to spiritual pursuits.

The period of niddah was to be followed by mikvah – ritual purification [much like baptism]. When the woman bathed at the conclusion of her menses, she became ritually pure. Traditional Jewish communities built a mikvah area even before they would build a synagogue.

I think that you have summed up all the reasons, if not, a lot of the reasons, that God gave us those directions. For our spiritual health, for our physical health, for our emotional health, and for our relationship's health.

 

[Henaynei]

While there may or may not be numerous reasons why HaShem gave these and other commands, and we may or may not ever know or understand them - the *reason* we obey should never be contingent on our understanding them - understanding *can* sometimes enhance our appreciation but should never be the motivation for obedience, any more that lack of understanding should be the motivation for not obeying - "I don't understand why HaShem said do X y or Z so I don't believe that I need to do it, it doesn't make any sense to me." (NOT saying this is happening here, just seemed like the appropriate place to mention this as the topic of understanding has come up).

[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]

Read This Chapter[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Exodus (Sh'mot) [/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]24:7 Then he took the book of the covenant and read it aloud, so that the people could hear; and they responded, "Everything that ADONAI has spoken, we will do and obey." [/font][/font]

[/font][/font]Understanding quite often comes *after* obedience

 

[chunkofcoal]

I was thinking about these things yesterday. Being put apart for seven days - I know that I am a grumpy, crampy woman during that time - staying away from people for a week is a good idea!
I've also been thinking about the blood. When we get our period, we know a child wasn't conceived. In the blood that we pass is our DNA. All the generations of my family are in that DNA. Something to think about. It makes me look at having my period a little differently.

 

[jgonz]

Thank you Ahavah! IMO, you summed it up perfectly for me with your post.

 

[MyLittleWonders]

Hey Visionary,
Where did you get that quote ... I really liked how it explained the whole concept of niddah ... especially for my still transforming, yet still western, mind.

 

[visionary]

Hey Visionary,
Where did you get that quote ... I really liked how it explained the whole concept of niddah ... especially for my still transforming, yet still western, mind.

If you take a look, you will see that it was her post that I quoted....

 

[MyLittleWonders]

If you take a look, you will see that it was her post that I quoted....

Duh! I was so anxious to ask where you got it, I didn't even look up one post!

 

[Blueskies]

Ahavah,

Outstanding! Thank you!

I believe that we have to use some common sense in this world! Otherwise, we are merely pharisees, obeying the letter of the law and forgetting the spirit.

 

[Mirelys]

Ahavah,
Thank you for that post! I think a lot of women (myself included, but I'm working on it) tend to think of their cycles in a negative light; it's a nuisance, it's gross, on and on and on....
It's like we think our bodies would be much better if only they functioned like a man's. Well, we're not men, and we're just as wonderfully made.

 

[Henaynei]

Well, we're not men, and we're just as wonderfully made.

Omeyn! For we are fearfully and wonderfully made, crafted by His heart and hands!

 

[visionary]

I love being a woman....I have carried two other lives in me and was in wonder of it all...I loved the experience... and would not trade it for the world... there is no greater miracle than the miracle of procreation... and I believe we have the best part of that...

 

[Sephania]

Yes, we have been 'entrusted' and that's a worthy honor.

 

[Ahavah]

Ahavah,
Thank you for that post! I think a lot of women (myself included, but I'm working on it) tend to think of their cycles in a negative light; it's a nuisance, it's gross, on and on and on....
It's like we think our bodies would be much better if only they functioned like a man's. Well, we're not men, and we're just as wonderfully made.

Well..I was unfortuantly one of those females who hated that special time of the month.
I'd physically get very, very sick and have to stay in bed for 3-5 days. I'd often dispise the fact that I was a female!
Until I began to realize the importance of it all, and how G-d made the whole process as a forshadowing of what is and what has yet to come...I began to understand..it not all about me and my misery.

My body was created to tell a story, and G-d had a bigger plan. I now look at it all in a different perspective, and let G-d work my body as His will be done. I still may get sick, but I try not to focus on the pain.