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Ladies, help me out here...

justaGUYnamedROB

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This thread is about this age old dilemma:

Men marry a woman thinking she'll stay as is...Women marry a man thinking they'll change him.

In asking this, I'm not trying to insinuate that anybody is 'wrong,' to point fingers or to start a war in here, but because I'm genuinely curious and just want to understand better: where does this idea/need/desire to change men (your significant other) come from?



What's it all about?
 

The Nihilist

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Rob, I don't know if you know, but everything that exists today that took more than 20 minutes to put together exists because of women except beer. Not because women made them, but because men wanted women to have sex with them. Without women, men would hang out in mudhuts all day, flinging poo at each other and drinking beer. A single man is not far removed from this situation, except that he plays video games and may have a job. What a woman hopes to change is this instinct, she hopes to civilize him.
 
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The Nihilist

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Rob, I don't know if you know, but everything that exists today that took more than 20 minutes to put together exists because of women except beer. Not because women made them, but because men wanted women to have sex with them. Without women, men would hang out in mudhuts all day, flinging poo at each other and drinking beer. A single man is not far removed from this situation, except that he plays video games and may have a job. What a woman hopes to change is this instinct, she hopes to civilize him.
 
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justaGUYnamedROB

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Rob, I don't know if you know, but everything that exists today that took more than 20 minutes to put together exists because of women except beer. Not because women made them, but because men wanted women to have sex with them. Without women, men would hang out in mudhuts all day, flinging poo at each other and drinking beer. A single man is not far removed from this situation, except that he plays video games and may have a job. What a woman hopes to change is this instinct, she hopes to civilize him.


Hmm, and here I was under the impression that the more civilized a man was, the better his chances of getting married were.


Ladies, am I wrong?
 
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RobinRedbreast

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If you marry any person expecting them to change, you aren't living in reality. You are marrying a dream rather than anything real, and you can't put all your stocks in dreams or hopes or wishes; at the end of the day, we -must- live in reality, in the now, in the present. The past is gone, and the future isn't here yet. We can only deal with the present one day at a time in a logical and realistic manner.

Thus, when a person gets married expecting to change her husband, she will (eventually if not immediately) be eternally unhappy, or the man will, or both will.

You can never ever marry someone for who you hope they will become. This includes faith; so many people marry their SO's thinking "He -can- be a Christian, or he -will- be a Christian" - no no! You can NOT do that. You have to be satisfied with who they are now, right now, not tomorrow. That means if you cannot be completely satisfied with almost everything about someone within reason, in the here and now, you probably should not be marrying them.

You cannot marry a figment of your imagination.

I wish I could help you understand the statement that you quoted. I cannot, because I did not get married expecting my husband to change. In my head, all I can think is "Who in their right of mind would do that?" although realistically I know it happens every single day. I just personally don't understand it myself.

Rob, I don't know if you know, but everything that exists today that took more than 20 minutes to put together exists because of women except beer. Not because women made them, but because men wanted women to have sex with them. Without women, men would hang out in mudhuts all day, flinging poo at each other and drinking beer. A single man is not far removed from this situation, except that he plays video games and may have a job. What a woman hopes to change is this instinct, she hopes to civilize him.

If the man was uncivilized to begin with, I wouldn't even be interested in them, so I can't really subscribe to this train of thought. However, perhaps if we were indeed still living in the stone age, this would have some merit.

I do think that some women see a strange need to be with someone they think needs "improvement" though. I don't understand this concept myself, as I stated in the post just above this one. I don't know why women gravitate towards men they consider projects (it doesn't mean they ARE projects either, it just means those particular women cannot accept them for exactly who they are, but choose to be with them anyway).

In a way, as a result, I think women simply bring the inevitable upon themselves (unhappy marriages).

There is also a separate issue where people marry other people they are simply incompatible with; perhaps they were too young, or the relationship wasn't long enough, or what have you. Whatever happened, they walk down the aisle, and find out that they are each not the person they expected. What happens then? Acceptance? No of course not... one or both parties try to change the other to fit into their worldview. That's another kettle of fish all together however.


The most important thing I can say on a topic like this, is the following: Not every relationship is meant to be. And while relationships require work, you do NOT have to bend over backwards making a relationship function. If it doesn't work, leave. If you're incompatible, break up! People spend way too much time trying to force themselves into incompatible situations under the pretense "Oh I love him, I love him! (as if they'll never again love another)" and as a result, they bring the consequences upon themselves.

If you want to change the person you are with? Break up, WAY before you hit that alter.

Nuff said.
 
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Lino

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People spend way too much time trying to force themselves into incompatible situations under the pretense "Oh I love him, I love him! (as if they'll never again love another)" and as a result, they bring the consequences upon themselves.
I tend to think the opposite; that too many people go from one partner to another seeking something they will never find. They're looking for something that doesn't excist because we have this idea of a commited relationship being so perfect all the time and "they lived happily ever after" etc.

And there's a huge difference in trying to change what someone do and trying to change what someone is.
 
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RobinRedbreast

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And there's a huge difference in trying to change what someone do and trying to change what someone is.

Typically, the former stems from the latter, I'm afraid. There is a much shorter list of things that stand-alone as "what someone does" than the list of things someone does that is in a relationship to whom they are.
 
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K9_Trainer

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Honestly I have no idea. I'm not a "changer". If a guy does something I can't stand or tolerate, then I'm not going to get with him under the impression that I can change him. That's unrealistic, especially if what I would want to change is a part of him. That would be like a guy coming into my life and trying to get me to stop keeping pets and having animals. It's not happening.
 
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Mrs. Luther073082

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If you marry any person expecting them to change, you aren't living in reality.

Actually I think it would be wise to expect each person to change over time. People will change as life situations vary and as they mature.

But you are right in the sense that people shouldn't expect specific changes to be made. The person isn't going to change into a dream spouse -- they will just change, in general, over time. And the changes that happen to them probably won't be any sort of changes that you'll expect.

That means if you cannot be completely satisfied with almost everything about someone within reason, in the here and now, you probably should not be marrying them.

That's very true.

IMO it would also help to think of worst case scenario situations. For example, I ask myself, "would I still want to be with this person if they were in an accident that left them paralyzed or disfigured?" and "If this person goes through a severe depression, do I love them enough to deal with that and be supportive?"

If I don't think the answer to those questions is "yes" then I don't need to be with that person.
 
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GuacaMolly

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If you marry any person expecting them to change, you aren't living in reality. You are marrying a dream rather than anything real, and you can't put all your stocks in dreams or hopes or wishes; at the end of the day, we -must- live in reality, in the now, in the present. The past is gone, and the future isn't here yet. We can only deal with the present one day at a time in a logical and realistic manner.

Thus, when a person gets married expecting to change her husband, she will (eventually if not immediately) be eternally unhappy, or the man will, or both will.

You can never ever marry someone for who you hope they will become. This includes faith; so many people marry their SO's thinking "He -can- be a Christian, or he -will- be a Christian" - no no! You can NOT do that. You have to be satisfied with who they are now, right now, not tomorrow. That means if you cannot be completely satisfied with almost everything about someone within reason, in the here and now, you probably should not be marrying them.

You cannot marry a figment of your imagination.

I wish I could help you understand the statement that you quoted. I cannot, because I did not get married expecting my husband to change. In my head, all I can think is "Who in their right of mind would do that?" although realistically I know it happens every single day. I just personally don't understand it myself.



If the man was uncivilized to begin with, I wouldn't even be interested in them, so I can't really subscribe to this train of thought. However, perhaps if we were indeed still living in the stone age, this would have some merit.

I do think that some women see a strange need to be with someone they think needs "improvement" though. I don't understand this concept myself, as I stated in the post just above this one. I don't know why women gravitate towards men they consider projects (it doesn't mean they ARE projects either, it just means those particular women cannot accept them for exactly who they are, but choose to be with them anyway).

In a way, as a result, I think women simply bring the inevitable upon themselves (unhappy marriages).

There is also a separate issue where people marry other people they are simply incompatible with; perhaps they were too young, or the relationship wasn't long enough, or what have you. Whatever happened, they walk down the aisle, and find out that they are each not the person they expected. What happens then? Acceptance? No of course not... one or both parties try to change the other to fit into their worldview. That's another kettle of fish all together however.


The most important thing I can say on a topic like this, is the following: Not every relationship is meant to be. And while relationships require work, you do NOT have to bend over backwards making a relationship function. If it doesn't work, leave. If you're incompatible, break up! People spend way too much time trying to force themselves into incompatible situations under the pretense "Oh I love him, I love him! (as if they'll never again love another)" and as a result, they bring the consequences upon themselves.

If you want to change the person you are with? Break up, WAY before you hit that alter.

Nuff said.

This post is pretty much QFT, as far as I'm concerned.

I can't imagine actually marrying someone, hoping that things about them would change. It's just a recipe for disaster; but I see lots of women who do it.

I think that a lot of women have an idea in their heads of what their perfect guy should be like; to the point that if they meet this amazing guy who would be perfect for them, they don't know how just to take him as he is instead of buying him electrical how-to books for his birthday because he's not a natural handy-man, or something.

Something I've been guilty of in the past is thinking that he would change for me. Sure, he's done this this and this before, but this is new, this is me--- he wouldn't do this with/to me. :doh:

Sooo.... I guess what I'm trying to say is that sometimes it's easier said than done to not hold someone's past against them, give them the benefit of the doubt and at the same time not delude oneself that the change reaches farther than it really does.

Regardless, I like taking people as they are. I think that infintesimally planned and thought out expectations and comparisons are the death to happiness.
 
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