Labels are not my thing.

[Blueforest]

I can't be identified as anything belief-wise, so it's pointless to try. Even choosing an "icon" was nearly impossible for me. I'm not" other religion" for I have NO religion. Yet none of the others fit me either. It's easier to say what I'm NOT than what I am. I find labels constricting and suffocating anyway.

But I've been thinking. Why would I want to call myself a "christian"? In my experience, this is a very negative and bad label that carries all manner of prejudices and negative connotations. It would be like bragging about coming from the bad side of town, where you were born. Why take pride in that?

In all, I find christianity to be extremely negative and it doesn't at all resonate with who I am. So, why should I limit myself to its walls when I find walls to be restrictive?

I find negative ideologies to be destructive to my health and well-being.

 

[elman]

I can't be identified as anything belief-wise, so it's pointless to try. Even choosing an "icon" was nearly impossible for me. I'm not" other religion" for I have NO religion. Yet none of the others fit me either. It's easier to say what I'm NOT than what I am. I find labels constricting and suffocating anyway.

But I've been thinking. Why would I want to call myself a "christian"? In my experience, this is a very negative and bad label that carries all manner of prejudices and negative connotations. It would be like bragging about coming from the bad side of town, where you were born. Why take pride in that?

In all, I find christianity to be extremely negative and it doesn't at all resonate with who I am. So, why should I limit myself to its walls when I find walls to be restrictive?

I find negative ideologies to be destructive to my health and well-being.

Jesus taught it was all summed up in loving others. How do you get all this extreme negativity out of that?

 

[Blueforest]

Jesus taught it was all summed up in loving others. How do you get all this extreme negativity out of that?

Yeah but, christians don't do that. They don't even follow their own teachings. Instead they use it to beat others down so they accept their doctrines and dogmas. It's sad.

I don't want to turn this into an indictment on christianity. Let's just say even aside from the religious hypocrites, there are a number of negative beliefs and doctrines in christianity. A short, but incomplete, list would be: the doctrines of hell, angry god, excessive focus on sin, death, suffering, hardships, misery, defeat and the demanding of bloodshed for wrongs. Never mind the bald-faced hypocrisy with defending genocide, while condemning abortion, preaching love, yet practicing hate and bigotry, and talking about life, while only focusing on death and the "sweet by and by".

None of this resonates the slightest with me. I was raised into a semi -"christian" home, a very loose Anglican / Catholic background, where we almost never went to church but still believed in the bible. Unfortunately, science has shown the bible to be flawed and the way most christians worship a BOOK, rather than the God Himself, is another ridiculous contradiction for me.

I believe there is some truth in christianity. Just as there is some truth in Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, paganism, Buddhism, agnosticism, atheism and even in a science textbook. Truth is found in all facets of life. But to claim an absolute monopoly on truth is ludicrous.

 

[Hakan101]

I can't be identified as anything belief-wise, so it's pointless to try. Even choosing an "icon" was nearly impossible for me. I'm not" other religion" for I have NO religion. Yet none of the others fit me either. It's easier to say what I'm NOT than what I am. I find labels constricting and suffocating anyway.

But I've been thinking. Why would I want to call myself a "christian"? In my experience, this is a very negative and bad label that carries all manner of prejudices and negative connotations. It would be like bragging about coming from the bad side of town, where you were born. Why take pride in that?

In all, I find christianity to be extremely negative and it doesn't at all resonate with who I am. So, why should I limit myself to its walls when I find walls to be restrictive?

I find negative ideologies to be destructive to my health and well-being.

This sounds very different to what I know Christianity to be. If that's what I saw Christianity as, I wouldn't want to be part of it either. But I certainly don't think it's something to take pride in. The very core of Christianity is shedding your pride and admitting you're a wicked person. You have to humble yourself enough to admit you need a savior.

Perhaps you have heard Christians say "Jesus is my savior." This means that I deserve Hell, and nothing's stopping me from going there unless someone saves me from it. The only one who can is Jesus. So if you see a Christian who speaks arrogantly to nonbelievers, you must remind them that according to their faith, they were just as horrible as nonbelievers, they can take no credit for their salvation, so they have no excuse for condemning nonbelievers. Their righteousness is Jesus', not their own.

As for the walls you speak of, it would be nice to discuss this more. Before I came to Christ, one of the hardest things for me to understand was how we have "Freedom in Christ", if it means there are things that we must not do (sin).

 

[Blueforest]

This sounds very different to what I know Christianity to be. If that's what I saw Christianity as, I wouldn't want to be part of it either. But I certainly don't think it's something to take pride in. The very core of Christianity is shedding your pride and admitting you're a wicked person. You have to humble yourself enough to admit you need a savior.

Perhaps you have heard Christians say "Jesus is my savior." This means that I deserve Hell, and nothing's stopping me from going there unless someone saves me from it. The only one who can is Jesus. So if you see a Christian who speaks arrogantly to nonbelievers, you must remind them that according to their faith, they were just as horrible as nonbelievers, they can take no credit for their salvation, so they have no excuse for condemning nonbelievers. Their righteousness is Jesus', not their own.

As for the walls you speak of, it would be nice to discuss this more. Before I came to Christ, one of the hardest things for me to understand was how we have "Freedom in Christ", if it means there are things that we must not do (sin).

Right, and that's the thing...

Right there, in that one quote I underlined, you have clearly demonstrated why I don't care for this... label... nor do I share those negative beliefs. If you truly want to view yourself as garbage... so be it. But I'd appreciate you not dragging me down into the muck and filth with you. I have a lot of pride (as most humans, including christians, despite what they say, have). I see little reason to sit here and condemn myself and beat myself up all day when I can just as easily go out and do something productive with my time.

Christianity has such a horrible view of human kind, it's truly awful.

Why do you deserve eternal torture? Because you were born??? Or, because you were created sick?

Christianity says this about a man, "You are created sick and demanded to be well."

That is so absurd, it's not even funny. And the fact that humans truly have such self-loathing tendencies is even more sad, to me. If there really is a God, who is loving, I highly doubt that He wants humans to be beating themselves up and thinking they were born as defective trash.

The "freedom" you talk of is a misnomer, since christianity is all about "do's and don't's" as well as a form of bondage and servitude to one's religious ideals. One becomes a "slave of Christ" in order to make heaven.

If your faith works for you, great! Glad to hear it. But for me... it does not. I've done the whole "christian" thing and found it to be severely wanting. A faith based on fear, guilt and shame is NOT for this little piggy.

 

[Hakan101]

Right, and that's the thing...

Right there, in that one quote I underlined, you have clearly demonstrated why I don't care for this... label... nor do I share those negative beliefs. If you truly want to view yourself as garbage... so be it. But I'd appreciate you not dragging me down into the muck and filth with you. I have a lot of pride (as most humans, including christians, despite what they say, have). I see little reason to sit here and condemn myself and beat myself up all day when I can just as easily go out and do something productive with my time.

Christianity has such a horrible view of human kind, it's truly awful.

Why do you deserve eternal torture? Because you were born??? Or, because you were created sick?

Christianity says this about a man, "You are created sick and demanded to be well."

That is so absurd, it's not even funny. And the fact that humans truly have such self-loathing tendencies is even more sad, to me. If there really is a God, who is loving, I highly doubt that He wants humans to be beating themselves up and thinking they were born as defective trash.

The "freedom" you talk of is a misnomer, since christianity is all about "do's and don't's" as well as a form of bondage and servitude to one's religious ideals. One becomes a "slave of Christ" in order to make heaven.

I understand you have pride, as well as myself. I think we both can agree it gets in the way of a lot of things. One being good communication. Let's try to curb our pride, for the sake of this conversation if nothing else. Please?

The beauty of God's love is that while we deserve death, he wants us to have life. It is only half of the equation to say that we "view ourselves as garbage." Alone it is quite negative. But the other half is that God gave us a way to be washed clean and become wholly new. Because we were not meant to be garbage. Surely you have heard stories, even if you did not believe them, of criminals who repented in prison and accepted Christ, changing their life around. There's a reason the pastors go there, rather than stay away. No one is going to be denied the opportunity to be saved.

So then, it is more like God says, "You who are filthy, come to me and be made clean." You are right, God doesn't want man to sit around in self-loathing. That alone does no good. He wants man to seek him to be changed.

Paul said that becoming a Christian means becoming a slave to God, you are right in saying that. But you should know that Paul also said that all of those who are not slaves to God, are slaves to sin. Slaves to God will have life, while slaves to sin will have death. He also goes into detail explaining the freedom in Christ in Galatians.

If you are not interested in understanding Christianity, I suppose there is nothing left to say. But if you are interested in knowing more, there are lots of people here who are willing to speak with you. I simply think that to dismiss it as a strongly negative thing is rather hasty.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I see your points Blueforest, and I think many of them are valid. The fact that many Christians (IMHO they tend to be from America and other western cultures most often) don't follow the teachings of Christ can be extremely disillusioning at times. The way I see it, I believe God is the source of truth wherever it's found. Thus I believe that one could encounter truths in the places that you say, however I would argue that the truth in question always belonged to God and its origins wouldn't be found in the other belief systems. As such, when I encounter a truth from a different source, I essentially desire to claim that truth for God.

I don't know if that makes sense, or even if you care... just my thoughts on the matter.

When I first joined CF, and every now and then since, I wrestled a little bit with "what faith icon represents me best?" Was it the standard "Christian" icon? The ND icon? The other-church icon? I know, it sounds petty but it was hard to me to identify how I could best express my following Jesus that would differentiate myself from other traditions. Ultimately I bounced back and forth for a while between the standard Christian icon and the ND icon since neither of them really seem to have ties to a specific tradition or theology. And thus it was like starting out here with a very simple statement that I follow Jesus, and from there I could do my best to set a correct example for what it truly looks like to follow Jesus and live the way he lived.

Sorry for my ramblings, you posed some interesting thoughts and I started running.

 

[Galvanized]

Yeah but, christians don't do that. They don't even follow their own teachings. Instead they use it to beat others down so they accept their doctrines and dogmas. It's sad.

I don't want to turn this into an indictment on christianity. Let's just say even aside from the religious hypocrites, there are a number of negative beliefs and doctrines in christianity. A short, but incomplete, list would be: the doctrines of hell, angry god, excessive focus on sin, death, suffering, hardships, misery, defeat and the demanding of bloodshed for wrongs. Never mind the bald-faced hypocrisy with defending genocide, while condemning abortion, preaching love, yet practicing hate and bigotry, and talking about life, while only focusing on death and the "sweet by and by".

None of this resonates the slightest with me. I was raised into a semi -"christian" home, a very loose Anglican / Catholic background, where we almost never went to church but still believed in the bible. Unfortunately, science has shown the bible to be flawed and the way most christians worship a BOOK, rather than the God Himself, is another ridiculous contradiction for me.

I believe there is some truth in christianity. Just as there is some truth in Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, paganism, Buddhism, agnosticism, atheism and even in a science textbook. Truth is found in all facets of life. But to claim an absolute monopoly on truth is ludicrous.

You don't know what you're saying. If there is no God, then there is no basis for "truth" or for "lies" outside of the human mind. If you say that something is the truth, I can say it is a lie. Whose truth is then superior? The idea of truth, then, becomes ludicrous in a world without an absolute God.

There is too much to go into that reaches beyond a simple post. Your prejudices stem from years in a culture that despises the things that made it possible. Christianity is only "negative" for those who know absolutely nothing about it; science is only "accurate" so far as a particular scientist's theories fit your prejudices. They come, they go, there is nothing new.

Begin a study of human nature without your prejudices and tell us what is in a man that is not wicked. Read Plato, the apology of Socrates, read Thucydides, the ancient writers, read the Bible, and study history, and tell me that you are "good" after that study. You live in ignorance and what you think is great wisdom is stupidity. If you say that such and such disproves Christianity, study it, seek it out, and confirm beyond a doubt if it is true or false. If you continue on this path, there is no hope for you.

 

[solarwave]

I can't be identified as anything belief-wise, so it's pointless to try. Even choosing an "icon" was nearly impossible for me. I'm not" other religion" for I have NO religion. Yet none of the others fit me either. It's easier to say what I'm NOT than what I am. I find labels constricting and suffocating anyway.

But I've been thinking. Why would I want to call myself a "christian"? In my experience, this is a very negative and bad label that carries all manner of prejudices and negative connotations. It would be like bragging about coming from the bad side of town, where you were born. Why take pride in that?

In all, I find christianity to be extremely negative and it doesn't at all resonate with who I am. So, why should I limit myself to its walls when I find walls to be restrictive?

I find negative ideologies to be destructive to my health and well-being.

It depends how you choose to understand something. Is an ideal/idea or theory how the people who claim to embody it current act, how they used to act, and which group do you use to define it when many exist? Or do you understand the idea based on the principles it is made from? Yeah Christians have done bad things, and yes Christians had weird and different theologies today, but that is what Christians are, not what Christianity is.

I could say I wont be a Christian because I was brought up in a conservative church and I disagree with it. But conservative Christianity isn't what Christianity is and nor is moderate or liberal. The main principles and life of Jesus Christ is what Christianity is based on and I find them to be amazing and with great freeing power. I say I am Christian because I believe in what it could be, not because of what it is.

Also you say you don't like labels because they confine you, but isn't some confinement good? I would like to be called a good person because being evil isn't better just because it gives more freedom of action. Also it depends how you understand Christianity as to if you are restricted or not. One can learn from other religions and philosophies while being Christian.

 

[Blueforest]

I understand you have pride, as well as myself. I think we both can agree it gets in the way of a lot of things. One being good communication. Let's try to curb our pride, for the sake of this conversation if nothing else. Please?

The beauty of God's love is that while we deserve death, he wants us to have life. It is only half of the equation to say that we "view ourselves as garbage." Alone it is quite negative. But the other half is that God gave us a way to be washed clean and become wholly new. Because we were not meant to be garbage. Surely you have heard stories, even if you did not believe them, of criminals who repented in prison and accepted Christ, changing their life around. There's a reason the pastors go there, rather than stay away. No one is going to be denied the opportunity to be saved.

So then, it is more like God says, "You who are filthy, come to me and be made clean." You are right, God doesn't want man to sit around in self-loathing. That alone does no good. He wants man to seek him to be changed.

Paul said that becoming a Christian means becoming a slave to God, you are right in saying that. But you should know that Paul also said that all of those who are not slaves to God, are slaves to sin. Slaves to God will have life, while slaves to sin will have death. He also goes into detail explaining the freedom in Christ in Galatians.

If you are not interested in understanding Christianity, I suppose there is nothing left to say. But if you are interested in knowing more, there are lots of people here who are willing to speak with you. I simply think that to dismiss it as a strongly negative thing is rather hasty.

I'm proud of my pride. Throwing it away is foolishness to me.

Right, so religion presents the problem: "You're trash. A sinner, worthless, who is going to hell."

Then comes the tagline sale:

"Buuuut... we offer you the cure - Jesus!"

Anyone familiar with marketing is well aware of this tactic. It creates a problem, then offers you their product as the solution. It works remarkably well.

I heard a famous Psychologist once say, that religion tears down the sense of self on the one hand, only to remake the self with the religion at the centre of the new identity. This appears to coincide with the view you are presenting here. 'You're nothing - BUT if you practice this said religion and conform to its supposed ideals, you are now something!'

It's unfortunate God creates man to be flawed then demands he be made well.

I'd rather be free than a slave, myself. But that's just me. A lot of times, people are happy being slaves to another - less responsibility, accountability or thinking. Just follow orders, do as you're told and everything will be fine. What could be easier?

It's hardly hasty. I've spent nearly a year on this board, and it has driven me right away from christianity. Last year, I was heavily involved with a church, and I was a literalist, a creationist and I was quoting the bible on facebook 24/7. But no more. I've heard, seen and read so much that I don't really want to be associated with such a vulgar faith anymore. No offense to you, if it works for you... God bless.

I have graduated from christianity. Once you finish grade 8, you don't go back and redo grade 8, nor do you go back and redo kindergarten. You move on to grade 9 and so forth. Life is about advancement, not being static.

 

[Hakan101]

I'm proud of my pride. Throwing it away is foolishness to me.

Right, so religion presents the problem: "You're trash. A sinner, worthless, who is going to hell."

Then comes the tagline sale:

"Buuuut... we offer you the cure - Jesus!"

Anyone familiar with marketing is well aware of this tactic. It creates a problem, then offers you their product as the solution. It works remarkably well.

I heard a famous Psychologist once say, that religion tears down the sense of self on the one hand, only to remake the self with the religion at the centre of the new identity. This appears to coincide with the view you are presenting here. 'You're nothing - BUT if you practice this said religion and conform to its supposed ideals, you are now something!'

It's unfortunate God creates man to be flawed then demands he be made well.

I'd rather be free than a slave, myself. But that's just me. A lot of times, people are happy being slaves to another - less responsibility, accountability or thinking. Just follow orders, do as you're told and everything will be fine. What could be easier?

It's hardly hasty. I've spent nearly a year on this board, and it has driven me right away from christianity. Last year, I was heavily involved with a church, and I was a literalist, a creationist and I was quoting the bible on facebook 24/7. But no more. I've heard, seen and read so much that I don't really want to be associated with such a vulgar faith anymore. No offense to you, if it works for you... God bless.

I have graduated from christianity. Once you finish grade 8, you don't go back and redo grade 8, nor do you go back and redo kindergarten. You move on to grade 9 and so forth. Life is about advancement, not being static.

It's understandable that you wish to hold onto your pride. This world teaches us that pride is a virtue, when in truth it is a great sin. I could not have accepted Christ without realizing this first.

I think you are more interested in venting your ill regards towards Christianity rather than learning about it. This makes it difficult for us to have a discussion. If you honestly want to discuss the problems you view with Christianity, there are many here who would gladly do so, provided you can be respectful about it.

 

[Blueforest]

You don't know what you're saying.

Sure I do. Starting with an attack is hardly useful.

If there is no God, then there is no basis for "truth" or for "lies" outside of the human mind.

1. Who said there is no God? I never did.

2. Even if your statement was true, why is that a problem?

If you say that something is the truth, I can say it is a lie. Whose truth is then superior?

Pilate asked, "What is truth?" Who can know? Surely not you, nor I.

The idea of truth, then, becomes ludicrous in a world without an absolute God.

Perhaps, or perhaps not. You are the one making it "ludicrous" by saying so.

There is too much to go into that reaches beyond a simple post. Your prejudices stem from years in a culture that despises the things that made it possible. Christianity is only "negative" for those who know absolutely nothing about it; science is only "accurate" so far as a particular scientist's theories fit your prejudices. They come, they go, there is nothing new.

Hmm... pretty sure I know a heckuva lot about it, thanks. Probably more than you. Your way of insulting your opponents is tactless and gaudy.

Begin a study of human nature without your prejudices and tell us what is in a man that is not wicked. Read Plato, the apology of Socrates, read Thucydides, the ancient writers, read the Bible, and study history, and tell me that you are "good" after that study.

?

What do *I* have to do with Plato and Socrates? Or human history? Do you believe in reincarnation? If not, why propose the past to determine who is here before you now?

I've read the bible. It definitely has much evil in it. It shows the dark side of humans.

Humans are potentially very good AND very evil. We can do both.

YOU only focus on the negative, as do your brethen and its teachings.

I am a half-full kinda guy. This is the main reason why I don't fit as a religionist.


You live in ignorance and what you think is great wisdom is stupidity.

Qualify your rude statement merci beaucoup.

If you say that such and such disproves Christianity, study it, seek it out, and confirm beyond a doubt if it is true or false. If you continue on this path, there is no hope for you.

Hope in the sense of being a blind sheep who closes his eyes and ears to the truth? Why would I want anything to do with THAT?

 

[Forgiven828]

Hi Blueforest!

I felt just as you do not that long ago. I married into a family whos patriarch was a southern baptist fire and brimstone preacher. This man made me feel insecure, unworthy and ashamed. After growing up with a Mother who was raised in Catholic school and hearing awful stories of rulers being broken across the backs of her hands, I too, then felt Christianity was a fearful, harsh and judging religion.

I had some pretty horrible things happen to me as a young girl. As I grew into my teen and young adult years I chose to do all the things society says young women shouldn't do. The more judged I felt, the further I slipped away from even trying to do what was right. I was all about what I felt was good and pleasing to me. Sex with men I barely knew, drugs, alcohol, lying, manipulating and using my family and friends.

I spent 25+ years in and out of very deep depressions, mental hospitals and attempting to take my own life. Through all of that, including marriage, college, children and divorce, I was never truly happy.

Just 4 months ago I attempted my own life again. Pitiful, pathetic wretch that I was! A grown woman at 44 downing bottles of pills and bottles of alcohol just to escape my own doing. I caused my own grief by wallowing in the trauma of what happened to me as a kid and not letting it go. Hating others for what they had done and not done (to help), just made me hate myself.

When I woke up in the ICU I was mad. Angry at the whole world that here I was again. Of course when my body recovered I was shipped yet again to the nut house. Little did I know that my life was about to change.

I met a kind, gentle woman who read to me from the Bible and talked to me about Jesus.

That was in April. At the age of 44 I finally found the message believable. Jesus Christ walked this earth and truly was a man of love, gentleness, meekness and all about doing what was good and right for others. He lifted me up out of that pit and showed me how much He loved me. For the first time in my life I am not angry at the whole world, I am not depressed, suicidal or resentful of what happened to me.

The reason I say all of this? Because there is nothing negative in a story of finding joy. That is what being a Christian is. Not what some who profess to be Christians, judging you or making you feel unworthy. Jesus is all about love and peace.

I hope and pray, Blueforest, that you see those who preach doctrine and their way of religion for what they are. Not followers of Christ. I pray that you find Christians in your life who exemplify the standard of Jesus.

Peace and Love

 

[Blueforest]

Hi Blueforest!

I felt just as you do not that long ago. I married into a family whos patriarch was a southern baptist fire and brimstone preacher. This man made me feel insecure, unworthy and ashamed. After growing up with a Mother who was raised in Catholic school and hearing awful stories of rulers being broken across the backs of her hands, I too, then felt Christianity was a fearful, harsh and judging religion.

I had some pretty horrible things happen to me as a young girl. As I grew into my teen and young adult years I chose to do all the things society says young women shouldn't do. The more judged I felt, the further I slipped away from even trying to do what was right. I was all about what I felt was good and pleasing to me. Sex with men I barely knew, drugs, alcohol, lying, manipulating and using my family and friends.

I spent 25+ years in and out of very deep depressions, mental hospitals and attempting to take my own life. Through all of that, including marriage, college, children and divorce, I was never truly happy.

Just 4 months ago I attempted my own life again. Pitiful, pathetic wretch that I was! A grown woman at 44 downing bottles of pills and bottles of alcohol just to escape my own doing. I caused my own grief by wallowing in the trauma of what happened to me as a kid and not letting it go. Hating others for what they had done and not done (to help), just made me hate myself.

When I woke up in the ICU I was mad. Angry at the whole world that here I was again. Of course when my body recovered I was shipped yet again to the nut house. Little did I know that my life was about to change.

I met a kind, gentle woman who read to me from the Bible and talked to me about Jesus.

That was in April. At the age of 44 I finally found the message believable. Jesus Christ walked this earth and truly was a man of love, gentleness, meekness and all about doing what was good and right for others. He lifted me up out of that pit and showed me how much He loved me. For the first time in my life I am not angry at the whole world, I am not depressed, suicidal or resentful of what happened to me.

The reason I say all of this? Because there is nothing negative in a story of finding joy. That is what being a Christian is. Not what some who profess to be Christians, judging you or making you feel unworthy. Jesus is all about love and peace.

I hope and pray, Blueforest, that you see those who preach doctrine and their way of religion for what they are. Not followers of Christ. I pray that you find Christians in your life who exemplify the standard of Jesus.

Peace and Love

Well I'm glad things came together for you! I have no problems with the person christians have claimed for themselves known as Jesus. I do, however, see a big discrepancy between religion and God though.

The entire idea of a professional clergy that earns a LIVING by trying to "play" God in people's lives is abhorrent.

If all christians were as you are, I would be proud to still identify myself as one.

Blessings.

 

[Blueforest]

It depends how you choose to understand something. Is an ideal/idea or theory how the people who claim to embody it current act, how they used to act, and which group do you use to define it when many exist? Or do you understand the idea based on the principles it is made from? Yeah Christians have done bad things, and yes Christians had weird and different theologies today, but that is what Christians are, not what Christianity is.

I could say I wont be a Christian because I was brought up in a conservative church and I disagree with it. But conservative Christianity isn't what Christianity is and nor is moderate or liberal. The main principles and life of Jesus Christ is what Christianity is based on and I find them to be amazing and with great freeing power. I say I am Christian because I believe in what it could be, not because of what it is.

Also you say you don't like labels because they confine you, but isn't some confinement good? I would like to be called a good person because being evil isn't better just because it gives more freedom of action. Also it depends how you understand Christianity as to if you are restricted or not. One can learn from other religions and philosophies while being Christian.

What one calls good, another may say is evil. For instance, according to some vastly intelligent people here, I am a bad person. Because I do not believe as they do. However, ask others and they would champion me as a pretty decent bloke. So go figure.

I find self-limitations to be restricting. I want to live up to my FULL potential, not be bogged down with man-made reservations and dogmas.

I find any belief system that says, "You must do this, this and this, not do this, this and this... and believe exactly so" to be quite confining.

 

[Hakan101]

<edit>
I have also addressed portions of your thesis, but it is getting to be very taxing due to a few things here:

In all, I find christianity to be extremely negative and it doesn't at all resonate with who I am. So, why should I limit myself to its walls when I find walls to be restrictive?

I find negative ideologies to be destructive to my health and well-being.

Unfortunately, science has shown the bible to be flawed and the way most christians worship a BOOK, rather than the God Himself, is another ridiculous contradiction for me.

I believe there is some truth in christianity. Just as there is some truth in Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, paganism, Buddhism, agnosticism, atheism and even in a science textbook. Truth is found in all facets of life. But to claim an absolute monopoly on truth is ludicrous.

Right there, in that one quote I underlined, you have clearly demonstrated why I don't care for this... label... nor do I share those negative beliefs. If you truly want to view yourself as garbage... so be it. But I'd appreciate you not dragging me down into the muck and filth with you. I have a lot of pride (as most humans, including christians, despite what they say, have). I see little reason to sit here and condemn myself and beat myself up all day when I can just as easily go out and do something productive with my time.

Christianity has such a horrible view of human kind, it's truly awful.

The "freedom" you talk of is a misnomer, since christianity is all about "do's and don't's" as well as a form of bondage and servitude to one's religious ideals. One becomes a "slave of Christ" in order to make heaven.

I have shortened the list, but in your responses you continually leave provocative comments about us and our faith. This is unacceptable, if we are going to have a discussion you must make an effort to be respectful. Surely you see that other users in this thread have already begun to respond in kind to your remarks. Please, I ask that you refrain from accusing me of "dragging you in the muck and filth" and the rest of what you have said. There are clearly more respectful ways to speak with each other.

 

[Blueforest]

I am afraid there is a problem here: Pride is not merely "being happy with yourself." Pride is a selfishness that reaches the core of one's soul. It is what stops us from repentance, it is what drives us to continue down the wrong path. I have seen what pride does to people in my own family, and myself. It is not just a matter of "being happy." Pride is saying "My way, or the highway."

I have also addressed portions of your thesis, but it is getting to be very taxing due to a few things here:



I have shortened the list, but in your responses you continually leave provocative comments about us and our faith. This is unacceptable, if we are going to have a discussion you must make an effort to be respectful. Surely you see that other users in this thread have already begun to respond in kind to your remarks. Please, I ask that you refrain from accusing me of "dragging you in the muck and filth" and the rest of what you have said. There are clearly more respectful ways to speak with each other.

The only way I could see pride as bad is if it means "a selfish independence from divinity / God", then I could see it as a bad thing. It's true, religion does its best at destroying men's pride - to rebuild itself as an idol in the human psyche instead. I find that to be so very sad.

God also, evidently, says "My way or the highway" so is God now a sinner? If not, why not? If so, then doesn't this create problems for the religionist?

I will speak as I feel in my heart. If you want to have an HONEST discussion WHILE you also attempt to censor me, then this is pointless. If I can't speak my mind without getting ultra-sensitive religionists offended (love is not easily offended) then what is the point?

I am calling it as I see it. If something strikes me as negative, vile and focusing on all the evils in the human heart, then what do you propose I do to express that? Hide my head in the sand and keep it buried?

You ARE dragging me into the filth when you are asking ME to call MYSELF trash, as your religion dictates you are. I refuse to debase myself to come down to your level. Again, this is where HEALTHY pride comes in.

 

[Nanopants]

I can't be identified as anything belief-wise, so it's pointless to try. Even choosing an "icon" was nearly impossible for me. I'm not" other religion" for I have NO religion. Yet none of the others fit me either. It's easier to say what I'm NOT than what I am. I find labels constricting and suffocating anyway.

But I've been thinking. Why would I want to call myself a "christian"? In my experience, this is a very negative and bad label that carries all manner of prejudices and negative connotations. It would be like bragging about coming from the bad side of town, where you were born. Why take pride in that?

In all, I find christianity to be extremely negative and it doesn't at all resonate with who I am. So, why should I limit myself to its walls when I find walls to be restrictive?

I find negative ideologies to be destructive to my health and well-being.

Hey Blueforest.

I am definitely not going to judge, but I don't want you to give up either!

I know exactly why you are ashamed and upset with Christianity. That's ok. Frankly I have given up on it 101 times myself. But there is so much more and it has nothing to do with the "church". I implore you to seek the truth of the matter, and forget about churchianity.

In the meantime, here is a music video that I have found to be quite inspiring. I hope you can find it within you to not give up.

"We are winning" by the flobots - YouTube

The world needs us bro, and God does not hate humanity.

 

[Nanopants]

<edit>

I have shortened the list, but in your responses you continually leave provocative comments about us and our faith. This is unacceptable, if we are going to have a discussion you must make an effort to be respectful. Surely you see that other users in this thread have already begun to respond in kind to your remarks. Please, I ask that you refrain from accusing me of "dragging you in the muck and filth" and the rest of what you have said. There are clearly more respectful ways to speak with each other.

Honest questions have no need of respecting any man. But honesty requires the courage to face the truth: which is the opposite of pointing the finger to evade it. He owes you nothing, that is, unless your pride demands otherwise. If you can't play the game then you shouldn't be on the ball field.

 

[Nanopants]

The "freedom" you talk of is a misnomer, since christianity is all about "do's and don't's" as well as a form of bondage and servitude to one's religious ideals. One becomes a "slave of Christ" in order to make heaven.

If your faith works for you, great! Glad to hear it. But for me... it does not. I've done the whole "christian" thing and found it to be severely wanting. A faith based on fear, guilt and shame is NOT for this little piggy.

I admit, some of the concepts of "freedom" that christians have been throwing around are in fact a misnomer. But the freedom that Christ spoke of is exactly what "freedom" should mean. Christ opposed those who were supportive of a religion based on do's and dont's, but he fought fire with fire, making it more difficult for them to play their own game. And then they killed him for being a heretic.

I have a challenge for you. Take a bible, rip out every book except the gospels. Then block out everything where he is dealing with the legalists who sought to condemn him, and see what you're left with. I think it would be quite surprising.

Furthermore, I have spent a bit of time having some great conversations with you. I've seen that you are an honest man that demands the truth, that you love humanity enough that you are even willing to face the threat of eternal torment for shame of following those who do harm to it. In short, I've seen in you the very spirit of Christ that I myself try to follow.

That's it, I've said my peace.