Kurios / Theos

[Sabian]

The Israelites following the murder of King Gedaliah fled to Egypt and YHWH pronounced a curse on them.

Jeremiah 44:26 Therefore hear ye the word of YHWH, all YAHudah that dwell in the land of Egypt; Behold, I have sworn by my great name, saith YHWH, that my name shall no more be named in the mouth of any man of YAHudah in all the land of Egypt, saying, Adonay YHWH liveth.</B>​

By 250 BCE the Israelites in Egypt were speaking Greek, not Hebrew. At this time the Taanach (Hebrew Bible) was translated into Greek Septuagint for those at Alexandria, Egypt, who spoke and read only Greek.

There are scroll fragments of the Septuagint, where the Name of YHWH the Tetragrammaton is inserted using the Paleo-Hebrew letters. There are historical records detailing that in the original copies of the Septuagint that a space was left and the Name of YHWH was written in Gold Paleo-Hebrew lettters.

There is one scroll fragment where the name of YHWH is transliterated into Greek thus preserving the pronunciation of the Name. Transliteration is where you preserve the pronunciation of a word by writing it in another language example(àìäéí = ELOHIM)so that it sounds like the original.

Later revisions of the Septuagint had the hebrew for Adonay & the Name of YHWH replaced by the greek Kurios and the hebrew for ELOHIM replaced by the greek Theos.

There are also historical records whereby the writer relates that in the early 1st century CE NT assemblies greek copies the Name of YHWH was inserted in Hebrew letters.

It would appear that the curse spread from Egypt and was adopted by Judaism to the point of not pronouncing the name in public and later by placing incorrect vowel points to cause the reader to stutter & pause instead of saying YHWH.

By the time of the writing of the NT (Note: A large number of existing NT manuscripts originated from Alexandria, Egypt

Now I know that "YHWH," which is probably pronounced "YHWH," is the true personal name of the one true EL (English word for ELOHIM). And I know that our language is corrupt. But we have here in the Bible an example of Yahweh's Apostle using a Greek word in reference to him! So, if we want to get a message thru to the world, it seems to me that it would be okay to call YHWH "God," since we have an example of Paul doing just that.

Again a misunderstanding can cause confusion, read carefully:

Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN THEOS/ELOHIM. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
Act 17:24 THEOS/ELOHIM that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Sovereign of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;​

Paul is correct in using the greek term Theos for the hebrew ELOHIM, since the hebrew ELOHIM is the only term used in Genesis 1 when speaking about the creation. YHWH is not mentioned until after the seventh day in Genesis 2.

Notice that Paul made no direct reference to either The FATHER or to YAHSHUA, all of the discussion was about the UNKNOWN ELOHIM.

So, Paul is not telling us to substitute Titles for the Name of the FATHER or the SON, just like the vision of Peter does not permit us to violate the Laws of Clean and UnClean meats.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of YAHSHUA Messiah for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Set Apart Spirit .

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. ​

(Isa 28:11 KJV) For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

This can apply to those Israelites who have forgotten how to read and write Hebrew, so to them YHWH is speaking with stammering lips and another tongue.

In this chapter YHWH is speaking to Ephraim and unto the remnant of his people. Does Ephraim and the remnant of the people still use Hebrew today?



If for no other reason the argument, for substituing Theos/God for Elohim or Kurios/Lord for YHWH ,would fail simply because the example only occurs the one time and has no other parallel in the NT.

 

[Superman]

This is intreresting, but I'm not sure where you are going with this. Are you implying that me, as an American of English decent, should learn how to pronounce "God" or "Jesus" in the Jewish tongue so I can be saved???

And Paul used theos and kurios a whole lot more than once during a conversation in Acts...

And the word Hebrew word "Messiah" was purposly translated as "Christos" (Christ) for his Greek speaking readers, the Gentiles.

John 1:41
He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah " (which translated means Christ ).

Obviously John translated the meaning of "Messiah" (the anointed one) to the Greek equivalant, for they mean the same thing, and the word "Messiah" means nothing to a Greek. That is not part of their language, so they don't know what that means, they cant identify. So you have to translate so your audience can identify with you...

In fact, the very names of the Apostles were transliterated by the apostles to a Greek equivalent for their Greek speaking readers. Most believe Saul's name becoming "Paulos" was for this reason, and certainly John changed "Cephas" to "Peter" because petros means "little stone", same as the Hebrew counterpart. John also called YHWH theos in John 1:1. So why are you singling out Paul's debate in Acts? Have you not read the opening of any of his letters?

Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),

Romans 1:1
Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,

1 Timothy 1
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus according to the commandment of God our Savior, and of Christ Jesus, who is our hope,

So your comment about Paul not destinguishing the members of the Trinity, and not using Greek equivalents of Hebrew words is a bit faulty... The substitution of names in the NT is extremely common.

So like I said, Im not sure what you are implying, I can only guess that you mean everyone should start speaking Hebrew in order to identify God... Which I think is unbiblical.

 

[Oblio]

As an example, an ancient Christian prayer:

Kurie Iesou Christe, eleision emas

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me

 

[Superman]

Notice that Paul made no direct reference to either The FATHER or to YAHSHUA, all of the discussion was about the UNKNOWN ELOHIM.

And this statement means little, as Paul did make a distinction to the Corinthian church:

1 Cor 8
5 For even if thereare so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,

6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

So picking out one incident in Acts to make a case is strange. In fact, the whole context of that situation shows the necessity of Paul using Greek terms in his debate, becaue as you pointed out, they had many gods, and Paul had to use their termonology to present the true living God. That makes my case.

 

[Sabian]

Shalom S.M.
(This is intreresting, but I'm not sure where you are going with this.)

Really I just post this as informatiom on these words.

(Are you implying that me, as an American of English decent, should learn how to pronounce "God" or "Jesus" in the Jewish tongue so I can be saved???)

One I would not say jewish tongue I would say Hebrew . Two You can not really get into a deep study of scripture without taking it back to the language it was writen in..
Why have you taken what I said and applied your salvation to it?
Your salvation is between you and YAH.
I think it is funny how People always say Your saying
that if I don't do this I will not be saved.
Is my post even about your salvation.
Please read the post again.

If you think your english study is a good enough understanding Go for it.
Personally I do not see YHWH in LORD
It is not a translation of YHWH and never was.

 

[Sabian]

In Genesis The seven days of Creation are all done by ELOHIM. After the completion of the creation we are introduced to YHWH ELOHIM in Genesis.

First we have the descriptive term ELOHIM - Mighty Ones. A Literal translation of the Hebrew. Which in order to protect the YHWH is one doctrine is interpreted in the singular form as - Mighty One.

The literal translation of YHWH ELOHIM should be YHWH of ELOHIM. i.e. YHWH Sabbaoth is translated YHWH of Hosts through out scripture.

The inconsistencies start with interpreting instead of translating the Hebrew and this only happens when the Hebrew contradicts the theological message of the translator.

do a search on the phrase "most high god".

Interesting the the most high god does not live in temples made by hand--then who lived in Solomon's Temple?

 

[Oblio]

Phil 2:9-11 tells us that Christ (Who is God and Lord) shall be given the name (kurios) which is above every other name. Tradition has it that this set of Holy Scripture is one of the earliest Christian hymns from the Apostolic era.

 

[Higher Truth]

http://www.sacrednamemovement.com/

click on the links in the left column to read the complete articles.

 

[Superman]

Shalom S.M.
(This is intreresting, but I'm not sure where you are going with this.)

Really I just post this as informatiom on these words.

(Are you implying that me, as an American of English decent, should learn how to pronounce "God" or "Jesus" in the Jewish tongue so I can be saved???)

One I would not say jewish tongue I would say Hebrew . Two You can not really get into a deep study of scripture without taking it back to the language it was writen in..
Why have you taken what I said and applied your salvation to it?
Your salvation is between you and YAH.
I think it is funny how People always say Your saying
that if I don't do this I will not be saved.
Is my post even about your salvation.
Please read the post again.

If you think your english study is a good enough understanding Go for it.
Personally I do not see YHWH in LORD
It is not a translation of YHWH and never was.

Actually, Im learning to read Greek, and more or less read fluently without a lot of trouble and although I cannot read Hebrew, I do have a Hebrew Interlinear and several lexicons. I believe whole-heartedly that the original language must be studied to understand the Bible.

However, I asked about what you meant, for Joel said "And it shall come to pass that whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." and Peter quoted him in Acts, as a way to show Jesus is Lord, as in, Jesus is YHWH.

Paul also said to believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is "Lord."

And you said this:

If for no other reason the argument, for substituing Theos/God for Elohim or Kurios/Lord for YHWH ,would fail simply because the example only occurs the one time and has no other parallel in the NT.

What would fail??? So since you are making issues over what way God, Jesus, and Lord should be pronounced, I can only deduce you are saying I must call on God in Hebrew in order to be saved (which I have not done)... Unless I am missing your point.

YHWH was substituted with "Adonai" as I think you pointed out, because no one wanted to utter the Divine Name and somehow take it in vain. Adonai basically means "Lord/Master" which is why when translated to Greek, "Kurios" was a nice translation. Like Messiah and Christ, Adonai and Kurios mean the same thing. That is how that came to be.

And you did not address the other verses I posted concerning Paul. Those put a big dent in your theory.

Phil 2:9-11 tells us that Christ (Who is God and Lord) shall be given the name (kurios) which is above every other name. Tradition has it that this set of Holy Scripture is one of the earliest Christian hymns from the Apostolic era.

Exactly. This goes back to what I said about Peter in Acts on the day of Pentacost. Peter quoted Joel, and in Hebrew Joel said "whoever calls upon YHWH shall be saved." But when Peter said it, he would have substituted YHWH for "Adonai" and in Greek, that is "Kurios."

So basically, Peter ascribed deity to Jesus Christ by quoting Joel and reffering it to Him. If a Jew read that, they would have understood "Kurios" to be a substitute for YHWH.

Paul did the same thing in Phillipians chapter 2.

 

[Sabian]

I would say you have not read to many of my Threads.

Superman. Is that correct?

I think you do not understand that I believe that YAHSHUA is YHWH
But YAHSHUA is not FATHER YAH
YAHSHUA is ELOHIM
But YAHSHUA is not EL

 

[Superman]

I would say you have not read to many of my Threads.

Superman. Is that correct?

I think you do not understand that I believe that YAHSHUA is YHWH
But YAHSHUA is not FATHER YAH
YAHSHUA is ELOHIM
But YAHSHUA is not EL

No, Im new here, so I have not read much of anyone.

I didnt get the impression you were taking anything away from Jesus as YHWH. I believe in the Trinity, that is to say, Jesus is God, The Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, but they are 3 "beings" and together, in unity, they make one God. If I understand it right, YHWH is actually a uniplural noun, like "sheep" and "fish." That would mean grammatically, these 3 can be "one God." That's neat.

But I got the impression that you were saying there is no basis for calling YHWH "God/Theos" or YAHSHUA "Jesus" or "Kurios/Lord." My point was simply to show that there was a need for the Jews to use Greek words to get their points across to the Greeks. "Kurios" is the Greek word for "Adonai" and "Adonai" was a substitute for YHWH because the Jews would not utter YHWH. Therefore, when the Jews spread the Gospel to the Greeks, they used "Kurios" instead of "Adonai" as "Adonai" is a foreign word to the Greeks. Adonai and Kurios mean the same thing, and both were used in place of YHWH. So while a Jew in his native tongue could say Yashua Adonai", a Greek would say "Iesous Kurios" and an American would say "Jesus is Lord."

All three languages are saying the same thing, that is, Jesus/Yashua is YHWH.

And yes, I agree that Jesus is not the Father, they are one in unity, not physically.

Hope I was a bit clearer in my statements.

 

[Sabian]

(No, Im new here, so I have not read much of anyone.)

Then You must forgive me. I will have to explain myself better, But I'm alittle busy now.

 

[Sabian]

I do not believe in the trinity.

I also do not believe that YAHSHUA is equial with thw FATHER.

I'll cover the Sat Apart Spirit first.I believe the Holy spirit is the Breath, love, power, And life that flows from the FATHER. The Set Apart Spirit Is not a person.

Now these are a few older post of mine.

I believe The NAME of the FATHER to me YAH.
That YHWH speaks of the FATHER through the SON.
That when YAHSHUA was on earth in the flesh he was only the SON.
NOT the FATHER THROUGH the SON.
Yes the Gift's of the Spirit of the FATHER was in YAHSHUA.
Like they can also be in us.
But was the FATHER in YAHSHUA?
To me if The FATHER was in YAHSHUA that would have made
YAHSHUA Super Human. I would have to say that would me unfare
to us.
If the FATHER was in YAHSHUA or was YAHSHUA we would not have
been able to LOOK on HIS face.
Does that make cent's?
YAHSHUA is the SON's name.
I look at YHWH as a family name.

Exodus 23:20 Behold, I send an ANGEL before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring
thee into the place which I have prepared.
21 Beware of HIM, and obey HIS voice, provoke HIM not; for HE will not pardon your
transgressions: for MY name is in HIM.
This verse makes alot of cent's to me.

The verse that I do not get is IsaYAH 9:6

To me this verse might be mistranslated.
Or just not looked at Correctly.
Because I believe YAHSHUA to be the Counseller,
that the FATHER has sent to us.
Not the FATHER HIMSELF.

For Unto us a CHILD is born. ( clearly YAHSHUA )
Unto us a SON is given: Why was he given?
Goverment shall be upon HIM.
and HIS name shall be called Wonderful, ( Is that HIS name or what HE is?)
Counseller: ( again that is not a name Counseller is what YAHSHUA
is to us , He is the EXAMPLE of the FATHER's WILL, WORD, WAY.

(sent from)) Is what I think?
The Mighty EL, The everlasting FATHER,
The Prince of Peace ( The FATHER is a Prince? )
Why would Scripture Call YAHSHUA the MIGHTY EL , The EVER LASTING FATHER.
Then Call HIM a PRINCE?

A PRINCE would be in line to be KING.

So I believe Mighty EL and EVER LASTING FATHER, to be speaking of the FATHER.
And WONDERFUL, COUNSELLER, PRINCE OF PEACE to be speaking Of the SON sent by the
FATHER.

My understanding Kinda KEY's off this Verse.

I have been doing a lot of studying and questoning lately and I have gone back to this
verse and read it, and read it,
and read it.It seem's Like my study carries be back to here.

So does this verse Contain FATHER and SON?
The way FATHER and SON represented, To our understanding,
KING and a PRINCE?
YAHSHUA is the HIGH PRIEST,HIGH PRIEST OF WHAT HIMSELF?
YAHSHUA SITS AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER.
IS HE SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF HIMSELF?

YHWH is the name of the ELOHIM we worship- and there are at least
two personages contained in that ELOHIM. ("Let US create man in
OUR image")

The very word "ELOHIM" is a uniplural.

YAHSHUA is the specific name of the SON. YAHUSHUA is ELOHIM/YHWH,
and the FATHER is ELOHIM/YHWH.

There is no proof, however, that the FATHER’s personal name is
YHWH- YHWH is the name of our ELOHIM -and our ELOHIM is comprised
of two seperate personages.
The GREATER of the TWO being the FATHER The ALMIGHTY EL
And I believe there is enough proof to believe the FATHER’s name is YAH or YH

Colossians chapter 1
Is like clear understanding when I look at it this WAY.






Is there the best of both worlds? A wonderful mix of ole and new?

Whats the diffrence between Old and NEW?
Will not everybody Old and NEW testament be saved By FAITH,and GRACE,
and Through YAHSHUA the SALVATION of YAH.

I think I need to understand your Understanding of that.





The LAW is Remember the sabbath , To keep it set apart.
six days shalt thou labour ,
The Law is not just about worshipping on the Seventh day
It is about resting also so. Spending time with your Family and YAH.
The other part you are not looking at is you are commanded to Work 6 days

And not only REST yourself but to give youe servents a REST.
The LAW states the seventh day was hallowed.
No other day was hallowed By the FATHER.





(Isa 45:12 KJV) I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.



Mat 11:27 All things were yielded up to ME by MY FATHER; and no one knows the SON except the FATHER; nor does anyone know the FATHER, except the Son, and the one to whom the SON purposes to reveal HIM.

Luk 10:22 All things were delivered to ME by MY FATHER, and no one knows who the SON is except the Father; and who is the FATHER, except the SON, and he to whom the SON may desire to reveal HIM.

Joh 16:25 I have spoken these things to you in allegories. An hour comes when I will no longer speak to you in allegories, but I will reveal the FATHER plainly to you.

YAHSHUA speaks that none no not one knew the Father and that YAHSHUA even had to plainly reveal the FATHER to the disciples. Why, if the FATHER is YHWH of the OT would YAHSHUA have to reveal his identity?

Could it bee that in the OT only one name of the ELOHIM was revealed. That YHWH was that one name and also was the one member of ELOHIM that was in direct contact with Mankind.

The only one in contact until YHWH became flesh as YAHSHUA ImmanuEL (ELOHIM with us) and in order for the disciples to understand that Yahshua was going to die and that YAHSHUA would be resurrected by the other member of ELOHIM, that YAHSHUA had to reveal the existence of the Father.

Luk 20:36 For they are not able to die any more; they are equal to angels, and are sons of ELOHIM, being sons of the resurrection.

Joh 5:29 And they will come out, the ones having done good into a resurrection of life; and the ones having practiced evil into a resurrection of judgment.

Joh 11:25 YAHSHUA said to her, I am the Resurrection and the Life. The one believing into ME, though he die, he shall live.

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the ELOHIM and FATHER of our YHWH YAHSHUA Messiah, He according to His great mercy having regenerated us to a living hope through the resurrection of YAHSHUA Messiah from the dead,









I believe YHWH to be a family name.
I believe YH ( yod Hay ) to be the FATHER, to be EL
( the almighty one )

I believe that YHWH is the FATHER's WILL through the SON.

The YHWH that mankind has seen Face to Face,
walked with, and heard. Was not the FATHER, ,
it was the message or WORD of the FATHER through the SON.
I believe when we all walk into the HOUSE of YAH we
we will be called YHWH. But we will not be YAH or EL.
But we will be ELOHIM or part of the family of YAH EL.

Atleast that is my understanding of it Now.
There is only one EL . YAHSHUA can not be it and neather can we.
But we can be SON's of YAH.





EL: almighty one
ELOHIM : mighty ones
To me ELOHIM is not FATHER YAH. EL is the FATHER.
ELOHIM are Beings that teach and do the will of EL.
Which is what YAHSHUA is. The WORD of the FATHER made flesh.
But that does not make YAHSHUA, EL the FATHER.
It makes HIM the WILL of the FATHER or ELOHIM.
Because YAHSHUA is our ELOHIM. YAHSHUA is greater then us.
And so are the Angels. They are MIGHTY ONES to us.
They do what we can not ( obey the FATHER ).
But that does not make them EL.
They are followers, and messangers of EL.
The evilone and his are demons are not ELOHIM,
because what makes you mighty is following the WORD of YAH.
Which they decided not to do.

Question Does the evil one obey any of the FATHER's WILL?
Does he reject every word?

Answer if you break one ,you have broken them all.





Of course Other gods
have been called EL and ELOHIM.
Everybody thinks his god is EL.
EL is not a name it is a title.
the evil one is called FATHER
FATHER is a title also.
YAHSHUA HIMSELF calls the evilone the father of lies.
so should I never call YAH my FATHER?
Because the evil one and baal was and is called FATHER?

Now to call FATHER YAH baal or lord would by diffrent,
because baal is a name.
god also comes from a name (gad)
lord and god are names of other gods.
You are not to call on any other name.

EL and ELOHIM by themselves are not names.
I did a study on the Names in scripture that contain EL.
I think I posted some of it here.
Its on my other computer.
It's a good study, If you are against useing EL to discribe
The FATHER YAH why would you say IsraEL.
Or any other word or name that contains EL.
Think about it, look up the meanings of these names.
If you truly feel that way you should not SAY these names.

Beyth-EL = HOUSE of EL # 1008
ELchanan = EL is gracious
ELiyab = EL of his Father # 446
ELiydad = EL of his love #449
ELyada = EL is knowing # 450
OR how aboue ELiYAH

Now the reason I posted all that is so you would have a better understanding of where I'm coming from.

Now I must add that I believe that YAHSHUA spoke and studied Hebrew. And I believe that most of the New Testament was writen in hebrew Then translated
to Greek.

 

[Sabian]

No, Im new here, so I have not read much of anyone.

I didnt get the impression you were taking anything away from Jesus as YHWH. I believe in the Trinity, that is to say, Jesus is God, The Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, but they are 3 "beings" and together, in unity, they make one God. If I understand it right, YHWH is actually a uniplural noun, like "sheep" and "fish." That would mean grammatically, these 3 can be "one God." That's neat.

But I got the impression that you were saying there is no basis for calling YHWH "God/Theos" or YAHSHUA "Jesus" or "Kurios/Lord." My point was simply to show that there was a need for the Jews to use Greek words to get their points across to the Greeks. "Kurios" is the Greek word for "Adonai" and "Adonai" was a substitute for YHWH because the Jews would not utter YHWH. Therefore, when the Jews spread the Gospel to the Greeks, they used "Kurios" instead of "Adonai" as "Adonai" is a foreign word to the Greeks. Adonai and Kurios mean the same thing, and both were used in place of YHWH. So while a Jew in his native tongue could say Yashua Adonai", a Greek would say "Iesous Kurios" and an American would say "Jesus is Lord."

All three languages are saying the same thing, that is, Jesus/Yashua is YHWH.

And yes, I agree that Jesus is not the Father, they are one in unity, not physically.

Hope I was a bit clearer in my statements.

Sorry that other post was getting to long.

Jesus Does not contain the FATHER's name and does not mean Salvation of YAH. So I have to disagree with you there. The Jews were wrong to Remove the name of YHWH. I also believe it is wrong to remove the Name of the FATHER (YAH) from our saviors Name. Can you show me tthe FATHER's name in jesus? YAHSHUA spoke the FATHER's name While repeating Old Testament Scripture. Do you think YAHSHUA used Kurios or Adonia.
I doubt that very seriously YAHSHUA spoke HIS FATHER's name.
So yes I do think the correct words would be YHWH and ELOHIM.
In most places in the New Testament.

What do you think?

 

[Sabian]

one more thing

Greek for the Tetragrammaton YHWH would be IAOUE
IAO because it has the same sound value as YAH
Clement of Alexandria wrote the tetragrammaton as IAOUE.

YAHSHUA would be IAOSOUA

So IE would be wrong because it does not contain the FATHERs name.
Why is this Important?

 

[Higher Truth]

Here is an explanation of the Messiah's Name from a scholar who is fluent in Semitic languages as well as Greek.

Yeshua (short form) or Yehoshua (long form)--Hebrew Joshua--comes across into Greek as Iesous. Greek has no consonant y, so it uses initial i (cf. Ioudaios for Yhudim), which comes out sounding like a y when it's pronounced together with a following vowel anyway. Greek also has no letter equivalent to Hebrew shin (/sh/), so the standard transliteration is sigma (/s/). The final a in the Hebrew forms is a glide-element that shows up in other Semitic languages but isn't really part of the word per se. The final vowel should be u, but because of the gutteral consonant 'ayin that comes at the end of the name, an a-vowel is added. So the final u-sound is paralleled by Greek ou (Greek upsilon would have a different sound--like French long-u or German u-umlaut). The s on the end is part of a standard conversion from other languages to Greek. Since Greek nouns almost always have case endings, including names, the s is added to give the name the right feel. We get the same rendering for Joshua in the Greek OT, so I don't see any reason that it would mean something different in the NT.

Trevor Peterson

CUA/Semitics


HT:
Iesous [Greek} was transliteratred as Jesus. No where in the Hebrew scriptures will you find Yahshua. Many people try to say that Jesus is zeus. In Greek Jesus is Iesou and zeus is ze. The "s" is added on both after the fact. Quite amusing what the pseudo scholars come up with trying to tie Jesus to zeus.. If you look at it logically, it is easy to see how Eeshoo [Aramaic} can become Iesou also.

 

[Sabian]

I guess I will have to show you more Proof That it would be IA.

But I do like the Fact that you admited that Yeshua Is wrong that it does not contain the FATHERs name.

It is as you stated a shout form that leaves out the FATHERs name. Why? Why would you leave out the FATHER's name from The SON's name?

You also left out the A in the greek forum of YAHUDIM . It would be IAO for YAH again you have left out the FATHER's name WHY?
It would not be IOU- daios unless of course
you owe Daios some money.
Where does your Information come from.

 

[Higher Truth]

Quote:
But I do like the Fact that you admited that Yeshua Is wrong that it does not contain the FATHERs name.

HT:
You must be reading someone elses post. I never stated this.

Quote:
Where does your Information come from.

HT:
From a scholar with credentials. His name is at the bottom if you want to tell him that he is wrong. Yahshua is a concoction of the sacred name movement.Better check your sources.It would also be helpful to learn some Hebrew.It appears in the Hebrew Scripture as Yod-Shin-Vav-Ayin.

 

[Sabian]

Our Saviour's Name in Hebrew is

(read from right to left).
This is a contraction of two words; IaHU (the short form of IaHUeH) and HUShUA (Salvation). This Name Means "IaHUeH Saves!" As Salvation can Only come from IaHUeH!!
The Hebrew spelling can be found in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance.
In ancient Hebrew there were letters that made vowel sounds as well as consonantal. Among these were the Iod, He and the Uaw; making the short i or ee, ah or eh, and oo or o sounds respectively. In fact:

(Special thanks to: YAHWEH'S ASSEMBLY IN MESSIAH and their Publication "The Missing J") ---------NOTE:*
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"The Creator's Name Yahweh derives from the Tetragrammaton YHWH, the English equivalent of the Hebrew letters ~ (yothe, hay, waw, hay). The Tetragrammaton—"four letters" is found in ancient Bible manuscripts. Early Christian writers such as Clement of Alexandria transliterated it into Greek as IAOUE. (Transliterate means to carry the actual sound of a word from one language to another.) The Tetragrammaton is made up of four Hebrew letters having the force of vowels, as Hebrew primers readily show. Josephus says that the Tetragrammaton appeared in the High Priest's miter (hat) and consisted of four vowels. Wars, Book V, chapter V, 7. "
(Special thanks to: YAHWEH'S ASSEMBLY IN MESSIAH and their Publication "The Missing J")

Thus Iod He Uaw He

would be pronounced ee ah oo eh. IaHUeH. "Yahweh" is a good phonetic spelling as is the Greek "IAOUE" but "IaHUeH" seems the most accurate transliteration into English. But what does it mean?

[size=+1]The Name comes from a root that means "was, is, will be..." (as in AIaH ASheR AIaH Exodus 3:14 "I was, am, will be.. what I was, am, will be") Signifying self existance.. the CREATOR .. for all else was created.. through the WORD made flesh![/size]
[size=+1]Who dwelt among us...[/size]

[size=+1]Now a very interesting note: At Shabbat Meetings I used to attend.. we have been fellowshipping with a Sister Yahudit.. she spelled His Name "IAOUE" which looked very familiar to me..[/size]
[size=+1]I had seen it somewhere before.. as it turns out, what I was remembering was reading the name IeShRaEL or "Yisrael" written in a Hebrew font

.. but read in an english font.. as in[/size]ìàøùé [size=+2]... This not only gives new meaning to the quote:[/size]
[size=+1]2 Chr 7:14[/size]
[size=+1]14 If My people, [/size][size=+2]which are called by My name[/size][size=+1], shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.[/size]
(KJV Emphasis added)

[size=+2]but also testifies to the difficulties of transliteration from one language to another.[/size]
[size=+1]The above example is transliterated from Hebrew to Greek.. back to Hebrew to English via Latin using the "UNIVERSE" protocol for typography. Hebrew reads right to left.. the others left to right... Now tell me: [/size][size=+2]Is this merely a remarkable coincidence?!?[/size]
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[size=+1]Would you like to see an artistic rendering in Ancient Hebrew? Say Yes Please.[/size]
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We were moved by IaHUeH's Spirit to find the closest representation of the original letters. The Iod is the root of both the "I" (iota) and modern "Y" as well the "J". We believe the "I" is a more correct translation, being closer to the original.
It is impossible to pronounce the "Y" as in year without first making an almost imperceptible "I" sound as in it or machine. It is likewise impossible to pronounce the "W" as in winter without first making an almost imperceptible "U" as in tune or "O" as in own.
The Uaw is the root of the "U" "V" and "W". We believe the "U" is a more correct translation, being closer to the original.

[size=+1]It was only afterwards when we had already begun this usage... that we found confirmations and verifications such as the references on this page.[/size]

[size=+1]This has been a major Confirmation to me that the Spirit that was guiding me was in Fact none other than IaHUeH!! Because He revealed this to me through Inspiration.. and then led me to find the various verifications.[/size]

[size=-1]..[/size]

"To Seek out that which was Lost..."​

We present this Information and its Links as a Service to our readers... Its inclusion should not be construed as the Authors'
or the Relays' endorsement of our Beliefs... or as our endorsement of theirs.. the Truth will stand on its own Merit!

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[size=+1]OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY[/size]
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[size=+1]|| Jehovah (_________).[/size]

[size=+1][The English and common European representation, since the 16th c., of the Hebrew divine name Yhwh. This word (the _sacred tetragrammaton') having come to be considered by the Jews too sacred for utterance, was pointed in the O.T. by the Masoretes with the vowels ' (= a), o, a, of adonai, as a direction to the reader to substitute Adonai for the _ineffable name'; which is actually done by Jerome in the Vulgate translation of Exodus vi. 3, and hence by Wyclif. Students of Hebrew at the Revival of Letters took these vowels as those of the word Yhwh (IHUH, JHVH) itself, which was accordingly transliterated in Latin spelling as IeHoVa(H), i.e. Iehoua(h. It is now held that the original name was IaHUe(H), i.e. Jahve(h, or with the English values of the letters, Yahwe(h, and one or other of these forms is now generally used by writers upon the religion of the Hebrews. The word has generally been understood to be a derivative of the verb hawah to be, to exist, as if _he that is', _the self-existent', or _the one ever coming into manifestation'; this origin is now disputed, but no conjectured derivation which has been substituted has found general acceptance.[/size]

[size=+1]The following is cited as the first use of the form Iehoua (Jehova):---1516 P. Galatinus De Arcanis Cath. Veritatis ii. lf. xlviij, Non enim he quatuor litere [yhwh] si, ut punctate sunt, legantur, Ioua reddunt: sed (ut ipse optime nosti) Iehoua efficiunt.][/size]

[size=+1]1. The principal and personal name of God in the Old Testament; in English versions usually represented by _the LORD'. Hence in modern Christian use, = God, the Almighty.[/size]

[size=+1]1530 Tindale Exod. vi. 3, I appeared vnto Abraham Isaac and Iacob an allmightie God: but in my name Iehouah [Wyclif Adonay] was I not knowne vnto them.[/size]

[size=+1]1539 Bible (Great) Ps. lxxxiii. 18 They shall know that thou (whose name is Iehoua) art only the most hyest ouer all the earth.[/size]

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[Sabian]

The Hebrew word that was translated "Vain".

[size=+1]STRONGS CONCORDANCE[/size]
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[size=+1]7723 shav' (shawv);[/size]

[size=+1]or shav (shav); from the same as 7722 in the sense of desolating; evil (as destructive), literally (ruin) or morally (especially guile); figuratively idolatry (as false, subjective), uselessness (as deceptive, objective; also adverbially, in vain):[/size]

[size=+1]KJV-- false (-ly), lie, lying, vain, vanity.[/size]

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[size=+1]OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY[/size]
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[size=+1]vain (____), a. and n. Forms: _. 4_5 vayn (4, 5_6 Sc., wayn), 4_6 vayne (5_6 wayne), 4_7 vaine (5 Sc. waine), 4, 6_ vain (4 wain). _. 4 vein, veen, 5 veine; 4_5 veyn (4 ueyn, 5 weyn), veyne (5 veyyne, feyne, Sc. weyne). _. 4 wan, 5, 6 Sc., wane, 5_6 Sc. vane (6 uane).[/size]

[size=+1][a. OF. vein, veyn, vain (F. vain):---L. vanus empty, void, idle, etc. (whence also It. and Sp. vano, Pg. vão).][/size]

[size=+1]I. 1. Devoid of real value, worth, or significance; idle, unprofitable, useless, worthless; of no effect, force, or power; fruitless, futile, unavailing.[/size]

[size=+1]_ b. Of material things: Useless, worthless. Obs.[/size]

[size=+1]_c. Trivial, unimportant. rare1.[/size]

[size=+1]2. Empty, vacant, void. Also const. of. Obs.[/size]

[size=+1]3. Of persons: Devoid of sense or wisdom; foolish, silly, thoughtless; of an idle or futile nature or disposition. Now rare or Obs.[/size]

[size=+1]4. Given to or indulging in personal vanity; having an excessively high opinion of one's own appearance, attainments, qualities, possessions, etc.; delighting in, or desirous of attracting, the admiration of others; conceited. Also absol.[/size]

[size=+1]II. 5. In the advb. phrase[/size]

[size=+1]in vain, to no effect or purpose; ineffectually, uselessly, vainly.[/size]

[size=+1]After L. in vanum, or OF. en vein (F. en vain, = It. in vano, Sp. en vano, Pg. em vão).[/size]

[size=+1]6. to take_in vain:[/size]

[size=+1]_ a. To disregard, to treat with contempt. Obs.[/size]

[size=+1]b. With name as object. To use or utter (the name of God) lightly, needlessly, or profanely; transf. to mention or speak of casually or idly.[/size]

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[size=+1]It amazes me how many "Commandment Keepers" gloss so smoothly over the Third Word of the Law they profess to keep. (not to mention the First!)[/size]
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[size=+1]

TETRAGRAMMATON - Jewish Encyclopedia​

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[size=-2]Another Excellent article!![/size] ..in the event that the remote link doesn't work click here for a local copy.

http://www.execpc.com/~dangregg/note60.html

-The Pronunciation of the Divine Name-
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The interesting article below is from: http://www-oi.uchicago.edu/OI/ANE/ANE-DIGEST/CURRENT/v1998.n098
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Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:35:25 +-200
From: Aayko Eyma <ayma@tip.nl>
Subject: AW: ane Jove
William Black[SMTP:balkh@hotmail.com] wrote:
[size=+1]>Is there any linguistic relation between the Roman god Jove and the name[/size]
[size=+1]of the Jewish deity?[/size]

[size=+1]***Perhaps your question was invoked by the late medieval form Jehova? - which however is based on wrong vocalisation.[/size][size=+1]Note that the V in that form stems from Latin, expressing the W sound, not our modern V sound, and the J expressing the Y sound, not the modern English J.[/size][size=+1]The Hebrew divine name YHWH, so with W, sounded like Yahweh.[/size][size=+1]In Greek the name was transliterated _iaoue_ (Clement of Alexandria) or even _iabe_ (Theodoret); as in Greek, 'ou' or 'b' came closest to w, and they could not render the Hebrew H in the middle of words either.[/size][size=+1]The short or poetic form of YHWH was Yahu, in Greek lettering transliterated as _iaO_.So any resemblance between Yahweh/Yahu and Jove (iovis) is not really big.[/size]

[size=+1]Q: Jupiter (= iov-+pater) of course is formed like Greek Zeus pater, Sanskrit Dyaus pita, i.e. IndoEuropean *Dieus ph2ter, but where does the first element (iov-, Jove) stems from? Does it tie in with the others (Dieus etc)? But why the disappearing act of the D(j)? Bit off topic I suppose, but I know some Classicists are lurking on ANE as well.[/size]

[size=+1]kind regards,[/size]
[size=+1]Aayko Eyma[/size]
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[size=+1]PostScript (follow-up)[/size]
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------And the following is from: http://users.netinfo.com.au/~quokka/alert/alert_11.html
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[size=+2]THE NAME OF G-D[/size]
John Steed (Coffs Harbour)
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[size=+1]I write in reply to the anonymous article The Name of God in the last issue. The author listed a number of texts preceded by the statement: After wrestling with these doubts in my mind, I decided to be guided by Gods Word, and sat down and searched the scriptures for some light on this subject. I did not find just one name but a number of names. I agree wholeheartedly that we should be guided by the Scriptures in this important matter. But unfortunately the author has been misled by the dishonesty of the translators who have substituted the word Lord for the Tetragrammaton. The word Lord bears no relationship to the meaning of the Tetragrammaton, it is not a translation but a blatant substitution on level with the replacement of the Sabbath with Sunday worship - check this for yourself. We must never forget that in English we have translations only, we must always check back to the real thing, the Hebrew, to find the truth.[/size]
[size=+1]If we examine these same texts with the Tetragrammaton restored and improved translation I am sure you will see a different conclusion.[/size]

[size=+1]EX. 3:14 I will be what I will be - Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I will be sent me to you.[/size]

[size=+1]The Hebrew phrase here translated as I will be what I will be is eyeh asher eyeh and it is a statement by the Heavenly Father about Himself. Yes, it is His personal name, but it is in the first person. It means, as the author of the article correctly points out, that He will fulfil ALL our needs, He will become whatever and whoever we need - Saviour, Healer, Provider, etc.[/size]

[size=+1]EX. 3:15 YHWH, Mighty One of your fathers, the Mighty One of Abraham, the Mighty One of Yitzchak, the Mighty One of Yaakov, has sent to you. This is My name forever and My remembrance to all generations.[/size]

[size=+1]YHWH, the Tetragrammaton, is the I will be statement in the third person and present tense - He is or The Existent One.[/size]

[size=+1]YHWH is the name by which we can call upon our Creator - it is used around 7,000 times in Scripture.[/size]

[size=+1]EX. 6:3 I appeared to Abraham, to Yitzchak, and to Yaakov, as El Shaddai (Mighty One All Powerful). And My name YHWH did I not reveal Myself to them?[/size]

[size=+1]This verse has been sorely mistranslated in the past. The Hebrew does not say that El Shaddai is a name, rather it is the role in which YHWH revealed Himself to the fathers.[/size]

[size=+1]EX. 34:14 For YHWH, whose name is jealous, is a jealous Mighty One.[/size]

[size=+1]This text does not mean that we are to call Him by the name Jealous. Rather it means that His name - YHWH - is a jealous name. How is it jealous? It means that He fills ALL our needs, it leaves NO ROOM for other mighty ones! Read the first command - EX. 20:3.[/size]
[size=+1]DE. 28:58 ....to fear this esteemed and awesome name, YHWH, your Mighty One.[/size]

[size=+1]PS. 68:4 Sing to the Mighty One, sing praises to His name. Raise up a highway for Him who rides through the deserts, by His name Yah and exult before Him.[/size]
[size=+1]Yah (YH) is simply an abbreviation of YHWH, it is used in verse, and in personal names (EliYah, IsaYah, etc.), though the more common abbreviation is Yahu (YHW) as in Yahushaphat (Jehoshaphat), Yahudah (Judah), etc.[/size]
[size=+1]IS. 47:4 Our Redeemer, YHWH of hosts is His name, the Set-apart One of Israel.[/size]

[size=+1]IS.57:15 For thus declares the high and exalted One who dwells forever, whose name is set-apart (holy).[/size]
[size=+1]Again this does not mean that we are to call Him Holy, rather that His name, YHWH, is holy (set-apart). Read the third command - EX. 20:7.[/size]

[size=+1]IS. 54:5 For your Maker is your husband, YHWH of hosts is His name, and Set-apart One of Israel is your Redeemer. He is called the Mighty One of all the earth.[/size]

[size=+1]All these verses point to our Heavenly Father having only one personal name. Yes He has many, many titles, which can be called names, but these are not the same as a personal name as they demonstrate particular roles that He fills at certain times. But His personal name demonstrates His all-encompassing character, and does so for all time.[/size]

[size=+1]I agree with the author, that being children, we like Yahushua can approach Him as Abba (Father), and indeed should do so. But this does not remove the fact that our Father has a name, a name which we can use to introduce Him to a world that is ignorant of Him. For it is only by His name YHWH that He is differentiated from the false mighty ones of the pagan world.[/size]

[size=+1]Yes, there is confusion as to how the Tetragrammaton is to be pronounced, but it is not true that it is without vowels, Josephus wrote that the name was composed of four vowels, yes vowels, not consonants! The three Hebrew letters that make up the name, Yod, He, and Waw (Vav), while they are used as consonants, actually function more often as long vowels. This means that these letters are self contained and can be pronounced without added vowel points (which only came along a few hundred years ago anyway). Clement testified that the name was pronounced Iaoue, but this was in Greek where there is no H sound.seoj We know from personal names in Scripture that the first three letters (YHW) are pronounced Yahu. Hence the most probable pronunciation is Yahueh (Yah-hoo-eh), though Yahu(h) (silent h), and Yahweh (Yah-weh, not Yah-way), are also possible. The important point is that the pronunciation must convey the correct meaning of He is- Yahueh or Yahu do that.[/size]

[size=+1]As mentioned earlier, the removal of the name was a sin comparable to that of the institution of Sunday worship. The third command says: You do not bring the name of YHWH your Mighty One to nought (nothing), for YHWH does not cleanse from guilt the one who brings His name to nought. Deut. 12:2-4 says Completely destroy all the places where the nations which you are dispossessing served their mighty ones...And you shall cut down the carved images of their mighty ones and shall destroy their name out of that place. Do not do so to YHWH your mighty One. The translators followed on from the lead of the Rabbis to replace the name of the Creator with the names of pagan deities in the Scriptures, removing the true name from peoples lips and memories. Their is no reason for us to continue in this sin. It is time to return to YHWH and restore His name to its rightful place.[/size]
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