Kosher

[sevengreenbeans]

A really strange story happened last month. I go every month for my pain injections and afterward I get cookies and juice. Normally I get 2 cans of apple juice but last month I asked for that and 1 can of grape juice. After drinking the apple juice, which has the circle K on it I checked the grape juice. Same company but no hecksher. I couldn't imagine one juice being kosher and another not, but I sent it back anyway for another can of apple. Any ideas why a certification on one and not the other or why grape juice might not be kosher where the apple was? I'm perplexed

Another concern is the ingredients of injections and/or vaccines, as they go into the bloodstream, many types of injections can contain tamei/unclean ingredients. Diabetic insulin injections, for example, can come from pigs. Anything that is put on the skin is absorbed into the bloodstream... lotion, cosmetics, deodorant, scalp/hair products, etc., etc.

 

[yedida]

Another concern is the ingredients of injections and/or vaccines, as they go into the bloodstream, many types of injections can contain tamei/unclean ingredients. Diabetic insulin injections, for example, can come from pigs. Anything that is put on the skin is absorbed into the bloodstream... lotion, cosmetics, deodorant, scalp/hair products, etc., etc.

That's one where I'll just have to accept whatever the outcome may be if mine are "unclean." After a year of being homebound in pain, I'll not stop taking them. And I don't think Hashem will be too interested in whether or not insulin is clean or unclean if it keeps His own alive to bring forth His glory. So, I'd never tell a diabetic to reject their insulin!
Actually, as medicines it's different from ingesting. Perhaps those critters were put on earth just for those purposes, medicinally - they have to have some purpose!

 

[yedida]

'thanks, I didn't want to overwhelm her.

As far as the grape juice, these fall into other catagories outside of juice. It is from 'hagafen' the vine, and not a tree, ha etz, which other fruits come from. Because wine since ancient times thus grape products, was used for idolatrous purposes it is handled differently. Even today these practices are still done, that is why you should not drink non-kosher wine.

gotcha!

And yes that link page is big!! THe only ones I ever remember are the circles U and K. Before I wouldn't worry with anything else, but now I can include the Ohio K, the Texas K!! Who knew??

 

[sevengreenbeans]

That's one where I'll just have to accept whatever the outcome may be if mine are "unclean." After a year of being homebound in pain, I'll not stop taking them. And I don't think Hashem will be too interested in whether or not insulin is clean or unclean if it keeps His own alive to bring forth His glory. So, I'd never tell a diabetic to reject their insulin!

It was not my intention to recommend rejecting medication, as my grandmother, mother, sister, and father-in-law are all diabetic. There have been times they have needed to take insulin injections. Researching medication can sometimes reveal substitutes and alternatives to unclean ingredients. There are other types of insulin on the market available, so that porcine insulin isn't the only option. There is bovine insulin and synthetic insulin. It's worth looking at the ingredients of things we ingest.

I am sorry you have experienced pain for an extended period of time. I only meant to add the thought of what is put into the bloodstream as it falls into the kosher category. What we put into our mouths is assimilated into our blood, just as what we inject, or slather on is assimilated into our blood. It is worth a little extra research if there is a "clean" alternative. My point was only to recommend to be informed of what is assimilated into the bloodstream. Although, sometimes, especially in emergency situations, there isn't any time to evaluate and what must be done is done. Sometimes it is unavoidable to come into contact with the "unclean".

The life (nefesh) of the flesh is in the blood. (Gen. 9:4, Lev. 17:11 and 14, Deut. 12:23) This is true of every breathing human and animal.

 

[sevengreenbeans]

Actually, as medicines it's different from ingesting. Perhaps those critters were put on earth just for those purposes, medicinally - they have to have some purpose!

Medicines can also be encapsulated in pork gelatin, is this not considered "ingesting"?

There may be vegetarian alternatives available. It is worth looking at, to know what options are available, so that one who is interested may make a request for vegetarian or kosher medical treatment.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Another concern is the ingredients of injections and/or vaccines, as they go into the bloodstream, many types of injections can contain tamei/unclean ingredients. Diabetic insulin injections, for example, can come from pigs. Anything that is put on the skin is absorbed into the bloodstream... lotion, cosmetics, deodorant, scalp/hair products, etc., etc.

For myself, I don't know how much of a difference it'd make whether or not others knowingly use products such as soap or other medicinal products with ingrediants from pigs and other animals deemed unclean.

And on that issue, to be clear, when it comes to things such as Kosher and products like Gelatin, Mono-diglycerides, Soaps and lotions, its interesting to see how others try to apply the ceremonial laws. Elements of the pig are infertilizers, gelatin, glycerin, marshmallows, vitamin capsules and many other products.

Additionally, as it stands, others have brought up issues of kosher even with showering/having soap because soap could conceivably be made from pork fat or porcine glycerine....and glycerine from pigs would be chemically identical to glycerine from any other animal. Fats from pigs would be chemically identical to the same fats from other animals, but the fatty acids would exist in proportions unique to pigs. That is, once the triacylglycerols themselves were extracted from the cell material, raw fat from an animal would still contain cells from that animal....and seeing the main ways in which gelatin is used from soaps to many diverse ways in the medical world, I do wonder on how far others may be willing to go with avoiding all products made from that which they believe is "unclean"....especially if stuck in the emergency room for whatever reason/not really having a say on what kind of soaps or materials are used to save one's life.

But beyond that, its rather amazing to see how many aspects of pigs are in products beyond what's mentioned. ..from paint to heart valves and many other things. For more information, one can go online/look up the site of Christien Meindertsma, and her Pig 05049 project--as seen under the title of "PIG 05049: Christien Meindertsma" ( )

And on her talk on the subject, one can go here/look up under the following title:

• "Showing 1 - 4 of 4 Christien Meindertsma: How pig parts make the world turn | Video on TED.com" ( )

 

[sevengreenbeans]

It just seems contradictory to say: don't eat that bacon-wrapped jalapeno, but it's okay to eat the pork gelatin wrapped vitamin.

 

[Steve Petersen]

The sages have long held that all commandments may be broken to save or preserve a life, except that one may not commit murder, idolatry, or adultery.

So taking a gelcap to save or preserve one's life is kosher if there are no other alternatives.

 

[yedida]

The sages have long held that all commandments may be broken to save or preserve a life, except that one may not commit murder, idolatry, or adultery.

So taking a gelcap to save or preserve one's life is kosher if there are no other alternatives.

And believe me, if you rely on Medicare and/or Medicaid to help cut the costs, you take what is offered which will always be the cheapest route! They will not spend a extra penny on something that is kosher if it can be gotten for less. That's just the way it is.

 

[Lulav]

Another concern is the ingredients of injections and/or vaccines, as they go into the bloodstream, many types of injections can contain tamei/unclean ingredients. Diabetic insulin injections, for example, can come from pigs. Anything that is put on the skin is absorbed into the bloodstream... lotion, cosmetics, deodorant, scalp/hair products, etc., etc.

Kosher is about what you eat. Vaccines are not a food or drink, nor are pain injections. Kosher laws make a distinction. The only concern about cosmetics and such are for Passover.

It just seems contradictory to say: don't eat that bacon-wrapped jalapeno, but it's okay to eat the pork gelatin wrapped vitamin.

No it isn't as a bacon-wrapped jalapeno (what ever that is) is eaten, medications are not. Vitamins are not vital medications, therefore they should be kosher. All mine are, as well as GF. I get them at KosherVitamins.com

 

[Gxg (G²)]

It just seems contradictory to say: don't eat that bacon-wrapped jalapeno, but it's okay to eat the pork gelatin wrapped vitamin.

One would also add the use of lipstick and beauty products, as more than 50% of lipsticks made in the United States contain pig fat or castor.

Of course, although many are familar with the Torah law prohibiting one from eating non-kosher food, yhis halacha only prohibits the consumption of non-kosher food. One may, however, derive benefit from non-kosher food. The "minhag haolam" (custom) is to include in this category the application of non-kosher cosmetics to the skin. For example, it is permissible for one to apply facial creams or lotions containing animal derivatives. One may even apply non-kosher ingredients to one's lips (e.g. lipstick, lip balm). This is true even though one may inadvertently swallow traces of lipstick that mix with food...as Lipstick is often inadvertently ingested when eating food.

It's interesting to consider when seeing biblical examples. Esther comes to mind, as she used all possible atributes including lipstick, eye shadow, nail polish etc to fulfill G-d's will.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I don't think Hashem will be too interested in whether or not insulin is clean or unclean if it keeps His own alive to bring forth His glory. So, I'd never tell a diabetic to reject their insulin!
Actually, as medicines it's different from ingesting. Perhaps those critters were put on earth just for those purposes, medicinally - they have to have some purpose!

As the spirit of the Law was concerned about the promotion of life, using products that may not be from "clean" sources doesn't seem to be something the Lord would trip on when life is involved...and indeed, with some animals often deemed to be "disgusting", it can be the case that the Lord may've reserved them for not being eaten due to how they were meant to serve medicinal purposes of saving lives....as opposed to eating them for pleasure/enjoyment and not really seeing the other purposes they were meant to fulfill. It makes sense that some animals like pigs may've been unhealthy to eat and yet great in regards to preserving life when handled properly---just as some animals were set aside to aid in the eco-system (like fruit bats helping with the spreading of seeds/plants or other predatory animals needing to be left alone so that they could keep other creatures from over-populating the land and developing into pests...and other creatures like Dung Beetles or Vultures meant to keep waste from building up and being a natural "Waste Disposal" service for man )

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Although, sometimes, especially in emergency situations, there isn't any time to evaluate and what must be done is done. Sometimes it is unavoidable to come into contact with the "unclean".

It is fascinating seeing how glucosamine, one of the most widely used arthritis remedies is derived from the seafood shells found deep in the waters below. Sea shells are not the only surprising source of muscle and joint remedies. The l'vona (frankincense) used in the Bais Hamikdash, deer antlers, and an array of animals including sharks and bees, also contain the raw materials of over-the-counter arthritis supplements. The raw material for most glucosamine comes from crab, shrimp or lobster shells. Unlike oyster shells which are rock hard, these shells are softer and can impart flavor.

"Shellfish Broth" is made by simmering these shells in water or oil, thereby extracting the flavor from the shells. To produce glucosamine, crab, shrimp or lobster shells first go through a hydrochloric acid bath, a process known as de-calcification. The protein is then removed resulting in a product called chitin. Chitin, a polysaccharide (a combination of various sugars) is the second most abundant organic substance in nature after cellulose.

There are numerous other arthritis remedies on the market that are non-kosher, including the following: following: Chondroitin, often sold together with glucosamine, is derived from bovine trachea cartilage (oxen windpipes). CMO (cis-9-cetylmyristoleate) is derived from non-kosher beef tallow. Bee Venom, a non-kosher derivative of the bee which contains mellitin, an anti-inflammatory agent, may not be taken orally but may be applied topically or by injection. Shark Cartilage, from the elastic tissue in the spine and skeleton of the shark, Shark Liver Oil, Green Lipped Mussel Extract, and skin and muscle extracts of Sea Cucumbers are all derived from non-kosher species.

 

[Lulav]

There is plenty availability of non seafood sourced glucosamine. Not only is it safe for those who keep kosher but also for those allergic to shellfish.

As I mentioned, KosherVitamins.com

Been around for 65 years.

Here's two pages worth of glucosamine offerings that are all kosher.

 

[sevengreenbeans]

Yes, it is wise to seek out the alternatives.

Yes, fyi, my lipstick is vegan/vegetarian/kosher.

I suppose we all have freedom to choose.

 

[Diakoneo10]

Based on all this I can definitely say that it's looking like my interest lies with Biblical standard and not with Rabbinical ones. That could change and I'll be open to it if God leads me that way... But for now I'll stick to Biblical laws.

 

[yedida]

Based on all this I can definitely say that it's looking like my interest lies with Biblical standard and not with Rabbinical ones. That could change and I'll be open to it if God leads me that way... But for now I'll stick to Biblical laws.

I think that's how most of us, at least us gentiles, started. It's all baby steps. Nothing wrong in starting small and slow, as long as you're starting somewhere

 

[visionary]

As the spirit of the Law was concerned about the promotion of life, using products that may not be from "clean" sources doesn't seem to be something the Lord would trip on when life is involved...and indeed, with some animals often deemed to be "disgusting", it can be the case that the Lord may've reserved them for not being eaten due to how they were meant to serve medicinal purposes of saving lives....as opposed to eating them for pleasure/enjoyment and not really seeing the other purposes they were meant to fulfill. It makes sense that some animals like pigs may've been unhealthy to eat and yet great in regards to preserving life when handled properly---just as some animals were set aside to aid in the eco-system (like fruit bats helping with the spreading of seeds/plants or other predatory animals needing to be left alone so that they could keep other creatures from over-populating the land and developing into pests...and other creatures like Dung Beetles or Vultures meant to keep waste from building up and being a natural "Waste Disposal" service for man )

What about pig tissue for medical/surgical procedures?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

What about pig tissue for medical/surgical procedures?

That'd be included in the medicinal purposes I mentioned. Noted it earlier when it came to the extensive variety of uses pigs have had in the medical world (as seen here in #66 ).

 

[yedida]

And it would also fall under the "whatever" your insurance company will pay for. As it is, sometimes by the time the ins. co. gives the go-ahead, it's too late to be of any help. Unless you're one of the few who can pay out of pocket, you don't have much choice as to what is used in a surgical procedure or what is used to fill the rx - it's going to be the cheapest, financially, that the ins. co. can get away with. You can bet your last dollar, and sadly, very often, that's exactly what is being done!
But I believe that every creature has some purpose for being on this planet. Medicinal isn't out of the question if it can't be used for food for all to eat.