Knowing your saved

[smithaw9027]

I've kind of been bothered by my testimony lately. There was never one time in my life when I know that I "got saved." I grew up in church -Southern Baptist- and at age 5 while laying in bed I prayed for salvation. I didn't want to go to hell. Since that time I've come to a more complete understanding of what it means to be a Christian- a couple of years ago I commited my life to him and I decided to follow Jesus no matter where he led me. With my new understanding I decided to pray again for salvation-just to "make sure." But there has NEVER been one time in my life when I had an experience like I've heard in many testimonies, when people say they come under heavy conviction detesting themselves and crying out desperately for God to save them knowing full well in their heart they don't deserve it. And then God reaching down and giving them joy unspeakable, changing them forever and leaving no doubt about what happened.

Since I made my choice a couple of years ago to follow Christ I committed myself to read the Bible and pray more and try to make Christian choices. I have noticed some slow subtle changes in my character and I would love to believe that those are the fruits of the spirit, but maybe its just the result of my own human efforts. Also, when i talk to God i very rarely feel like I hear from him and I don't feell all that close to God- my relationship with him is not very personal. Still, when I read the Bible it leads me to believe I am indeed saved. Because I rewalized intellectually that I was a sinner, believed in Christ -that he died for me and rose form the dead- and asked for salvation based on his free gift. If that's all a person has to do to be saved-and I think thats what the Bible teaches- then I was saved when I was 5, but if theres something that has to happen to the heart first, a deep feeling conviction of sin (and John 16:8 does say that the Holy spirit will convict the world of sin) and sense of wickedness followed by an instantaneous changing of the heart then I know I'm still lost because that never happened to me. I'm a little bewildered right now so I'd be happy for any advice. My old preacher used to say you have to "know that you know that you know your saved" otherwise your lost. Is that true? Or is it only true that we have to know God's word is true and trust that for assurance of salvation.

 

[LynneClomina]

if you believe with all of your being that you are a depraved sinner deserving of hell, and have asked Jesus to save you and you want/desire/need nothing else but to serve him, then you can have assurance. it doenst have to be emotionally based. it's an inner revelation of who you are. i've dont remember the day i got saved - but i know there was a definate change of heart, and i moved right into submitting to him more and more. and i continue in it. but i am really really really not an emotional person, and i rarely "feel" anything. but i have a deep trust that He is who He says He is, and a deep conviction that i need Him only, and all of that.

yes, you need to have a deep conviction of sin, but it's not always instantaneous. you can have a change of heart that goes "smoothly" like mine - without a huge uproar.

you worry you are not saved. sounds like you really want to be.... but why? lots of ppl say i am a christian and saved, i have said the prayer..... becuase i dont want to go to hell, i want to go to heaven. that's not enough.

what IS needed, is knowing that you need saving, knowing that God is all there is, to have no satisfaction outside of doing His will. needing him....

there is the parable of the washed sow (pig)....
the sow was all washed off, cleaned up - like many who go to church and call themselves christians....
but the sow was still a sow, who's desire was to be in the mud (pigsty). her heart was not changed, she was not a new creation. her home was her mud.
whereas, if she had become a new creation, as we do in christ, when we are really IN Christ, she would have no desire to be in the mud. she might go back into it, but since she is not a sow any longer, she desires to be cleaned up again and be out of the mud, becuase it is no longer home. and so she strives to be that new creation that she now is, and leave the mud.

so the question is, where is your home? are you at home in the world, or you at home in Christ???

hope you find the assurance you need....

 

[smithaw9027]

Well no I certainly don't want to get back in the mud, at least not in the muddy mud. I want to keep God's commandments-even though I don't think that's what being a christian is all about. But sometimes I think I wanna keep 'em because of me so I can make God smile. I don't know if that's the right motive though. Shouldn't I just naturally love what God loves and naturally hate what God hates, or is wanting to see God smile enough. Maybe though -and this may still be mud- I am self-centered because my strongest desire is to grow in Christ, for my own gain -i.e. gaining God's approval. Do I believe with all my being that i am a depraved being deserving of hell -yes because the Bible tells me so. But no, this is certainly notr a thought that comes to me naturally. Yes, I feel separation from God when I sin and don't like it but do i hate myself for it and naturally come to the assumption that I deserve hell fire- no, I can't say that I do. But I am willing to submit to a righteous God who says i do,

 

[Reformationist]

Since I made my choice a couple of years ago to follow Christ I committed myself to read the Bible and pray more and try to make Christian choices.

Why?

Also, when i talk to God i very rarely feel like I hear from him and I don't feell all that close to God- my relationship with him is not very personal.

Well, try thinking about it like any other relationship, at least to some extent. Never forget that He is the Creator of all things created and the Ruler of Heaven and earth but also don't forget that He is your Father. How would you nurture an eartly relationship with someone you loved and respected?

Still, when I read the Bible it leads me to believe I am indeed saved.

How does it do that?

smithaw9027, different people have different experiences of conversion. Don't let that weigh on you. Some people's lowest point, at which they claim to have found God, are radically different than where they are now so their conversion may very well be quite visible. If the Lord ordained to save you at a young age you might not nearly be as cognizant of it as others who might have been brought up out of the mire of depraved lifestyles. Be happy for that. Don't begrudge not having a hard life.

You're "conversion experience" isn't always the best means of determining our inclusion in the family of God. My advice is to constantly consider your motivation for the things you do. Do you try to obey the Word of God because you love Him and desire to serve Him in obedience because of that love?

You see, we may say we love God but it is often our actions that will prove this to be true. I don't mean to say that our actions make it true. I just mean that the "fruit" of which you speak is our visible manifestation that we are children of God. Tell me something, does it grieve you to trespass God's Law? If so, why does it grieve you?

God bless

 

[smithaw9027]

Thanks Reformationist, Well, i guess there are 2 or 3 different types of sin. When i sin against my brother, someone else it make sme feel terrible because I can see that it makes them feel bad. However, when I sin against God: a sexually immoral thought or being greedy with my money what I feel is a separateness from God, a feeling that I can't pray to him. Now when I said I didn't feel close to him sometimes I didn't mean that I felt sin was hindering my relationship-I know that feeling and know that I confess my sins to him to get rid of it- I meant that God just seems far away and that I don't hardly ever (except for a few times and now I'm worrying that these were my own imagination) hear any specific instructions or feel any peace or joy.

 

[Blessed2003]

Do you trust God? Don't listen to the lies you are being told. The enemy wants for you to believe you are not saved. I have been through this very struggle, and still do honestly. I question my motives, and examine my heart daily. I think that is good, we better know where we stand, but what I have learned is this...Trust, Obey
If you Love Jesus, you will keep His commandments. Love the Lord your God, Love your neighbor, the whole law is summed up in those two commands. Subject your mind to Christ. You pray earnestly, honestly, and openly to God, He is very capeable of healing you in every way. Jesus is our Shephard, He will not lose even ONE of us, TRUST Him, He died for you. He is not going to cut you loose and let you go.
Pray, pray, pray, pray, when you don't know what else to do, pray, confess it to God, however you feel, He understands..... Pray, pray
God Loves you very much and wants you to just let Him handle the salvation, you OBEY.
Love, Peace, Joy, Patience,

 

[eldermike]

Sin is not between you and salvation. Growth is the issue with continued sin, not your salvation. The ticket to growth is to disconnect salvation from Christian growth, they are simply not connected. Only sinners can be saved, and only saved people can grow. IMHO.
Mike

 

[LynneClomina]

Only sinners can be saved, and only saved people can grow.

cool, i love that. very insightful!

 

[LuxPerpetua]

Ya now what, I have a very similar testimony to you, smith. I grew up in Southern Baptist church and really there has never been a time where I doubted God's existence or felt like I was above needing God's guidance and help, but I also never had that deep emotional conversion experience that others talk about. My family is full of dedicated Christians, all of my friends were Christians, etc. I have had 2 experiences in my life where I really felt "God's voice" or something like that--once at age 12 when I was wondering when I should be baptized and then again at age 14 when I met my (now) husband. Other than these direct experiences, God has worked in my life through other people and situations rather than directly.

As far as knowing about your salvation, I do think it is possible to know that you are saved, and therefore, like the Christians of the New Testament, you can rejoice in the Lord (since you know longer fear damnation) and can be strong in your faith (if you know you are saved then you don't fear death and can face anything). I don't think everyone knows their salvation in the same way--some people have dramatic experiences and some don't. To be saved the Bible tells us you need to do a few essential things: Recognize your need, as a sinner, for God; have faith in Jesus as the ONLY way of reconciling your sinful nature to God; and then do your best to lead a life of righteousness aligning your will with God's will. In my opinion, then, being saved is all about humility--acknowledging that on your own you can never be "good enough" and so you must solely rely on God in the sacrifice of Christ to save you. The world tends to think one of two things--either that what you do doesn't matter because there is no god, or that if you're pretty good god will save you. We know that even on our best behavior we are, without Christ, doomed to hell. We have to humble ourselves to accept God's freely offered grace and salvation, and in turn we are commanded to humble our own selfishness and love and serve others. From everything I've read in Scripture, this is what it means to be saved. We are justified by faith in Christ, and out of this promise of undeserved salvation we show our love and gratitude to God by showing love to the world. We have been saved by Christ, we are saved by having faith in Him and His promise to save us, and we are being saved by aligning our will with God's and showing His love to the world. We are thus saved by internal faith and external actions of love, because no one who has the holy spirit seeks evil but only good, and the greatest good is to love. Thus, salvation is a path in my opinion, but so long as you take that initial step of admitting your inability to save yourself and your total reliance upon God to save you, you are already on the road of salvation (so long as you realize that the buck doesn't stop there but leads to a fuller understanding of righteousness). I don't believe in "once saved, always saved" but that salvation takes dedication, fortitude, perseverance, and faith. Many people initially recognize their need for God, but then, like the Israelites in the Old Testament, they forget about God and start relying upon their own merits and become too proud to see their need for God. This is the first step off the path of salvation, and unless corrected continually spirals until that person's name is blotted out of the Book of Life, which, according to Revelation 3:5, can happen.

I hope this has been more helpful than confusing to you.

 

[Reformationist]

Thanks Reformationist

You're welcome.

Well, i guess there are 2 or 3 different types of sin.

I understand where you're going with this but let me caution you against catagorizing your sin. ALL sin is cosmic treason. ALL sin is against God. Others may be affected by your sins but ALL sin is against God becuase it is HIS Law that is transgressed.

When i sin against my brother, someone else it make sme feel terrible because I can see that it makes them feel bad.

Do you feel guilty for hurting them?

However, when I sin against God: a sexually immoral thought or being greedy with my money what I feel is a separateness from God, a feeling that I can't pray to him.

That is the lie that the devil would have you believe. The Lord God tells us to confess our sins, right? He didn't say, "Hey, if it ain't a really bad sin, then you can confess it." Satan did the same thing to Eve. He caused her to question the reliability of God. He caused her to think that God wasn't telling the truth. I ask you now, who are you going to believe, God or satan?

If your answer is God then do as the Gospel tells you and confess your sins and ask the Lord to forgive you. You don't do this to be forgiven. You do this because you are forgiven.

I meant that God just seems far away and that I don't hardly ever (except for a few times and now I'm worrying that these were my own imagination) hear any specific instructions or feel any peace or joy.

Well, the peace of God is definitely a comfort to the believers soul. When we lack that peace it often feels as if God has forsaken us. However, God never forsakes us. Satan will do all manner of things to keep you from praying and immersing yourself in the Word. When you feel distant from God then pray to Him. He has blessed us with the priveledge of entering into the Holy of Holies and kneeling at the foot of His throne in supplication. Remember, when you pray to God it is not, or should not, always be about you and your needs. Follow this formula for prayer:

A - Acknowledgement
C - Confession
T - Thanksgiving
S - Supplication

Most people want to rush right over the first three to get to the part where we tell God what we want. Never forget the manifold blessings that the Lord has already bestowed upon you and thank Him for it. Turn your focus outward to His glory, or, in the Words of our Father:

Matthew 6:33
But seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

God bless

 

[LuxPerpetua]

I love the ACTS prayer formula above. This is a great way to pray!

 

[smithaw9027]

Reformationist, Sorry, I wasn't clear when IO "tried to categorize sin." Here's what I meant: when I sin against my brother the pain is almost unbearable-it hurts. Of course then I go to God immediately. The other sin-like greed and lust, which isn't naturally as deplorable to me-though I know just as deplorable to God -often come to my mind whan I'm praying later on (during my quiet time)

 

[Reformationist]

Reformationist, Sorry, I wasn't clear when IO "tried to categorize sin." Here's what I meant: when I sin against my brother the pain is almost unbearable-it hurts. Of course then I go to God immediately. The other sin-like greed and lust, which isn't naturally as deplorable to me-though I know just as deplorable to God -often come to my mind whan I'm praying later on (during my quiet time)

My apologies for misunderstanding. I completely understand what you are saying now. And, I completely empathize. When the results of our sins are so visible to us, as they are when other people are affected by our sins, we are often quicker to take notice of them and feel remorse and repent. Sins where there isn't necessarily a clear cut victim we are often slower to recognize. The important thing for you to do is to fight against those desires to sin just as you fight against the desire to do things that hurt your fellow man. Ask God to reveal your sin to you that you may mortify it. Ask the Lord to help you detest sin as He does. smithaw9027, believe me, you are not alone in this. Every single person on the planet fails to see sin as God sees it. If any of us ever did we would never sin again. It is this lifelong struggle to abhor our sin, which is so clearly a treat to our flesh, that sanctifies us. Fight the good fight my brother and entreat God for His grace along the way because you can't do it on your own.

God bless