KJV vs NIV

[newbeliever02072005]

I just came from bible study this evening and was a bit upset. Apparently, I have been reading the wrong bible As a new christian I feel my faith is being shaken. When I started to read the bible I was told the easiest one to understand was the NIV. So, obviously that was the one I read. All those....Thy's, wilest, mayest...etc. just was distracting for me and I couldn't get past it to find the meanings of the scriptures. This evening I was given an example with a major difference between the two bibles. It was in Acts 8:37....it reads as follows:

KING JAMES VERSION: Acts8:37... And Phillip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

N I V: Acts 8:37... (NOTHING TO READ FROM, SCRIPTURE IS GONE!)

​

How is a new person coming to know the Lord, supposed to pick up on missing information or words that have been changed around, to know? Thank goodness I was informed in the church. Makes me worry about the people that picks up a bible that does not attend churches and has support to fill in the blanks. What happens to them? We are all guilty of sin...intentional or unintentional. Following a bible that is inaccurate makes me wonder if God is frowning down on us. I know that this sure has knocked my confidence down about certainy of the bible.

I was given a website that has a comparision of each of the bible translations. Its www.avpublications.com maybe someone would like to check it out.

I truly hope that I can weather this storm, the devil sure is attacking my confidence. Please pray that I can keep the faith and strength to keep learning more without doubt. Thank you very much.

God Bless!
newbeliever

 

[SteveR2021]

I truly hope that I can weather this storm, the devil sure is attacking my confidence. Please pray that I can keep the faith and strength to keep learning more without doubt. Thank you very much.

Hang in there brother! There are reasons for the differences between translations. You can take heart in the fact that each translation is someone's attempt to best translate the Greek. The Greek is not always clear...the ambiguities are generally very minor, but we can expect some variation. What is remarkable is how consistent our translations have been.

Keep this in mind: The NASB, NIV and NLT are formal equivalence (tries to adhere as closely to Hebrew or Greek grammar and syntax as possible...it is a word for word translation. The NASB, NIV and NLT are different because language changes and each one tries to be more update). The KJV was a dynamic equivalence in its day as is the Good News Bible in our day (thought for thought). The Message and the Living Bibles are paraphrases.

Each of these has its advantages and weaknesses. I most often read the NLT but I prefer the KJV for personal reasons. I see no need to be dogmatic on this so long as we don't reject previous translations...

Try to keep in mind that there are reasons for the differences that you find among translations. The message is the same but the way it is presented is different. It can be advantageous to learn Greek - that way you need not rely on the interpretations of others...I hope that helps. Don't give up!

God bless you,

Stephen

 

[GreenEyedLady]

How is a new person coming to know the Lord, supposed to pick up on missing information or words that have been changed around, to know? Thank goodness I was informed in the church. Makes me worry about the people that picks up a bible that does not attend churches and has support to fill in the blanks. What happens to them? We are all guilty of sin...intentional or unintentional. Following a bible that is inaccurate makes me wonder if God is frowning down on us. I know that this sure has knocked my confidence down about certainy of the bible.

This is one of the reasons why I am a KJV only reader.

 

[newbeliever02072005]

Hang in there brother! There are reasons for the differences between translations. You can take heart in the fact that each translation is someone's attempt to best translate the Greek. The Greek is not always clear...the ambiguities are generally very minor, but we can expect some variation. What is remarkable is how consistent our translations have been.
I'm trying to hang in there. You say that I should take heart in the fact that each translation is someone'sattempt to translate Greek. I can do that, however shouldn't it be a huge disclaimer in the front of each of those bible translations that this is not 100% correct. That here are some of the areas that we had difficulty translating. Wouldn't it be better to be informed ahead of time, instead of midstream into your learning?

Keep this in mind: The NASB, NIV and NLT are formal equivalence (tries to adhere as closely to Hebrew or Greek grammar and syntax as possible...it is a word for word translation. The NASB, NIV and NLT are different because language changes and each one tries to be more update). The KJV was a dynamic equivalence in its day as is the Good News Bible in our day (thought for thought). The Message and the Living Bibles are paraphrases.
I guess ultimately, the KJV is the bible you make your final interptations from. All others can be used, but as a tool to help you understand and interpt into modern languages.

Each of these has its advantages and weaknesses. I most often read the NLT but I prefer the KJV for personal reasons. I see no need to be dogmatic on this so long as we don't reject previous translations...

So, you recommend as do my church to read the KJV?


Try to keep in mind that there are reasons for the differences that you find among translations. The message is the same but the way it is presented is different. It can be advantageous to learn Greek - that way you need not rely on the interpretations of others...I hope that helps. Don't give up!

God bless you,

Stephen

Thank you so much for your help with this.....I wonder, do you do any tutoring in Greek??? Ha!Ha!Ha! I think between the diapers, laundry, doc appts, cooking, cleaning, taking care of 3 small boys and a large boy (hubby) I might be able to fit in a tutoring session ...lol So, much to learn and so little time to do it in . Once, again thanks!

God Bless!
newbeliever

 

[Belteshazzar]

Apparently, I have been reading the wrong bible As a new christian I feel my faith is being shaken. When I started to read the bible I was told the easiest one to understand was the NIV.

You are reading the Bible. Some people have made a big deal out of which Bible to read. The Bible I recommend is the New King James Version and The NKJV Greek-English Interlinear New Testament so that you can see the Greek and English together. For free Bible software I would choose E-Sword. I can't post a link to my favorite web sites (I need 15 posts!) so if you want more info PM me and I will assemble a list that will help you in your studies.

What you should do is arm yourself with the knowledge of how the Bible has come to us in it's present form. This takes study and prayer. Beware of man's wisdom and choose God's Wisdom.

By the way I read the NLT (New Living Translation), NKJV (New King James Version)

May God bless you and give you wisdom as you study His Word.

Belteshazzar

 

[aReformedPatriot]

I just came from bible study this evening and was a bit upset. Apparently, I have been reading the wrong bible As a new christian I feel my faith is being shaken. When I started to read the bible I was told the easiest one to understand was the NIV. So, obviously that was the one I read. All those....Thy's, wilest, mayest...etc. just was distracting for me and I couldn't get past it to find the meanings of the scriptures. This evening I was given an example with a major difference between the two bibles. It was in Acts 8:37....it reads as follows:

KING JAMES VERSION: Acts8:37... And Phillip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

N I V: Acts 8:37... (NOTHING TO READ FROM, SCRIPTURE IS GONE!)

​

How is a new person coming to know the Lord, supposed to pick up on missing information or words that have been changed around, to know? Thank goodness I was informed in the church. Makes me worry about the people that picks up a bible that does not attend churches and has support to fill in the blanks. What happens to them? We are all guilty of sin...intentional or unintentional. Following a bible that is inaccurate makes me wonder if God is frowning down on us. I know that this sure has knocked my confidence down about certainy of the bible.

I was given a website that has a comparision of each of the bible translations. Its www.avpublications.com maybe someone would like to check it out.

I truly hope that I can weather this storm, the devil sure is attacking my confidence. Please pray that I can keep the faith and strength to keep learning more without doubt. Thank you very much.

God Bless!
newbeliever

One needs to understand why it is not in there. The KJV uses later Byzantine manuscripts (MSS) of the greek texts. The verse is omitted in the NIV because the NIV translators used the Older Alexandrian Greek Manuscripts. There is an advantage to using the older manuscripts in that since they are older and closer to the originals there is less of a chance that any textual variants will have occured in that time. Whereas in the Byzantine MSS they are older and show more signs of variants. For instance, the Byzantine MSS contain what is called the "expansion of piety" which occured near the middle ages. What the "expansion of piety" is are phrases like "The Lord Jesus" or "The Lord Jesus Christ" where in the older MSS you may just have "Jesus" or "Christ." The copyists in the later years felt it was more pious to expand the title of Christ in many instances. None of these exapansions are found in the earlier MSS. So Logically, sticking with the older MSS's has its benefits in translation.

The removal of the verse does not affect the overall theme of scripture that Jesus is the Lord but rather some pious copyist probably felt that it was a good idea to add it in, as commentary. The field of textual criticism is quite fascinating if you ever get a chance to look into it. Some will say (actually KJVonlyists are more likely to say) Textual Criticism is not nesscary, though I would argue differently for 2 reasons. 1) We do not have the original drafts of scripture and 2) variants occur within all the Manuscripts, none are the same. So we need to determine what the originals said. I encourage you not to by into the Tradition that the KJV is the only bible one should use.

 

[aReformedPatriot]

Apparently, I have been reading the wrong bible As a new christian I feel my faith is being shaken. When I started to read the bible I was told the easiest one to understand was the NIV.

You are reading the Bible. Some people have made a big deal out of which Bible to read. The Bible I recommend is the New King James Version and The NKJV Greek-English Interlinear New Testament so that you can see the Greek and English together. For free Bible software I would choose E-Sword. I can't post a link to my favorite web sites (I need 15 posts!) so if you want more info PM me and I will assemble a list that will help you in your studies.

What you should do is arm yourself with the knowledge of how the Bible has come to us in it's present form. This takes study and prayer. Beware of man's wisdom and choose God's Wisdom.

By the way I read the NLT (New Living Translation), NKJV (New King James Version)

May God bless you and give you wisdom as you study His Word.

Belteshazzar

Dont feel like your faith is shaken. God is good he has not let his message be lost. The NIV is what many of us use. I am praying for you my brother, and by the way its always an encouragement to meet new believers! I hope you continue to join us in Baptist/Anabaptist and grow in faith with us!

Peace in Christ
Mark

edit: I just figured out that you did not use the quote button. Nonetheless I prayed for you but now will pray for the OP as well. I too, encourage her not to lose sight of God and encourage her to understand why its been removed.

 

[seebs]

I know that in some cases, the KJV language adds things that we are pretty sure were not in the original manuscripts, or changes translations in questionable ways.

But I still love it. I just wish I could buy a complete KJV. I have an electronic copy with the apocrypha in it, but most print copies omit them, even though they were in the original translation.

 

[aReformedPatriot]

I know that in some cases, the KJV language adds things that we are pretty sure were not in the original manuscripts, or changes translations in questionable ways.

But I still love it. I just wish I could buy a complete KJV. I have an electronic copy with the apocrypha in it, but most print copies omit them, even though they were in the original translation.

Just buy an older Catholic douay rheims, same kinda language if I am not mistaken. Though you may find some catholic words in it.

 

[Andyman_1970]

The field of textual criticism is quite fascinating if you ever get a chance to look into it. Some will say (actually KJVonlyists are more likely to say) Textual Criticism is not nesscary, though I would argue differently for 2 reasons. 1) We do not have the original drafts of scripture and 2) variants occur within all the Manuscripts, none are the same. So we need to determine what the originals said. I encourage you not to by into the Tradition that the KJV is the only bible one should use.

I agree, Textual Criticism is a wonderful tool - I know the first time as a new Christian I ran into the same "they took verses out of this Bible" I was a bit confused. After some research and understanding of the various manuscripts used I discovered the possibility the verse I thought was "removed" from the NIV/NASB may have been added to the KJV even though it's not present in most of the manuscripts. So keep in mind, just because a passage is not there compared to the KJV doesn't mean it was removed, it could mean it was added to the KJV by the translators.

 

[Palatka44]

Sense I am not a Greek scholar I will only trust what is tried and true. For me that is the KJV. If one should feel moved to read others then that is between them and God. For me God revealed Himself to me in the KJV. Some one else may have a simular experience with the NIV. However, because there are so many translations out there you must have some kind of continuity of worship when reading God's Word which is why many Churches stay with only one version.

 

[Cright]

I read and study from my NIV, my church uses the NIV too.

I also own a KJV and an ESV (English Standard Version).

MY main preference is ESV, It is modern English just like the NIV, but a little more closley worded to KJV. I don't use my ESV much at all though, because my church doesn't. I honestly don't know ANY church that does.

So.. NIV is my second preference, I understand it and it is a good translation as well.

My third preference is KJV, I use this for clairification when studying, unless I happen to be online and can look up greek or hebrew (which I don't know).

Any bible after that for me is unnecessary with the 3 I have. They are all translations... just like the ones I have, and I don't need more.

The bottom line is that even the KJV is a translation, it's not perfect either.. it has a few mistakes you could find in a google search. The thing is that in most translations the mistakes are minor and will not change the gospel message. There are a few new translations out there that DO change the message and I would steer clear of them.


Carina

 

[GreenEyedLady]

Just buy an older Catholic douay rheims, same kinda language if I am not mistaken. Though you may find some catholic words in it.

Not the same manuscript as the KJV. But is is written in the same old english language.

 

[abednego]

God will perserve his Word! He said that the winds and the fashions of this world may change but that he will never change and his word is unchangeable. The KJV is the the best one. It was translated from by men of God. These other bibles take the KJV and change the meaning by trying to make it easier to understand. I am the Lord thy God i change not! People need to stop trying to write new verison of the bible... they are also trying to write all these new books that teach how to become saved and how to get a closer relationship with God. There just making Money off of The bible and God. Why do we need a new book by some Pastor who just because he has thousands that attend his church thinks he is smarter than God and is writing down Books to try to teach us how to have a closer relationship with God. Why do we need one of those books when we have Gods word which is free. If the KJV aint broke dont fix it. It takes the spirit to understand Gods word. We have tons and tons of book that preachers and pastor and bishops are writing to help us with this or that .... and they charge you a butt Load of money. When you can have What God wrote for you. So theres what God wrote and what man wrote. God created Man. If they want to write the KJV word for word and just call it a diffrent name then fine i dont know why they would do that but still it would be Gods word. Just my opion on the KJV vs NIV. Thanks for reading.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Just my opion on the KJV vs NIV.

Thank you for realizing what you shared was your opinion........

 

[GreenEyedLady]

There just making Money off of The bible and God. Why do we need a new book by some Pastor who just because he has thousands that attend his church thinks he is smarter than God and is writing down Books to try to teach us how to have a closer relationship with God. Why do we need one of those books when we have Gods word which is free. If the KJV aint broke dont fix it. It takes the spirit to understand Gods word..

Amen!! i completley agree, all of these books are written about the bible and about God, its like feeding babies junk food and withholding true spiritual nutrition from the mouths of babes. Get some spiritual vitimans and read God's word!

 

[Andyman_1970]

Get some spiritual vitimans and read God's word!

While I agree that the Bible should be our priority and our baseline for truth to assert that we should only limit ourselves to reading the Bible is not Biblical.

Act 17:28 - "As some of you own poets [pagan] have said, "We are his offspring".

Titus 1:12 "Even their own prophets [pagan] have said "Cretans are always........"

Notice here who does Paul quote? He quotes Pagan poets and prophets, not only that he affirms what they have said as true – Paul claims the truth where ever he finds it. Notice also in Acts 17 , Paul did not quote Scripture, or the Torah, or Jewish tradition he quotes a pagan poet to make an argument for the One True God.

Now how did Paul know about these pagan writings? He would have had to have read, researched, and heard these things. This would seem to fly in the face of the philosophy of that all truth is exclusive to the Bible. If all Paul had studied was the Holy Scriptures, and if that was all he every quoted from or used to comment on an issue, we would be missing 2 passages from the Bible today.

1 Corinthians 3:21-23 "So then no more boasting about men! All things are yours, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the word or life or death or the present or the future and you are of Christ and Christ is of God."

What does Paul say is ours.........all things, not just what’s in the Bible or those things labeled "Christian". BTW the word Christian in it's Biblical context is a noun not an adjective.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Test everything, hold on to the good".

The point is not to live in a bubble where we only allow things labeled Christian in - not all things labeled Christian are good and or true. Paul here tells us to test EVERYTHING - not just sit around blindly and uncritcally consume things that have a nice happy "Christian" label on them.

 

[SteveR2021]

One needs to understand why it is not in there. The KJV uses later Byzantine manuscripts (MSS) of the greek texts. The verse is omitted in the NIV because the NIV translators used the Older Alexandrian Greek Manuscripts. There is an advantage to using the older manuscripts in that since they are older and closer to the originals there is less of a chance that any textual variants will have occured in that time. Whereas in the Byzantine MSS they are older and show more signs of variants. For instance, the Byzantine MSS contain what is called the "expansion of piety" which occured near the middle ages. What the "expansion of piety" is are phrases like "The Lord Jesus" or "The Lord Jesus Christ" where in the older MSS you may just have "Jesus" or "Christ." The copyists in the later years felt it was more pious to expand the title of Christ in many instances. None of these exapansions are found in the earlier MSS. So Logically, sticking with the older MSS's has its benefits in translation.

The removal of the verse does not affect the overall theme of scripture that Jesus is the Lord but rather some pious copyist probably felt that it was a good idea to add it in, as commentary. The field of textual criticism is quite fascinating if you ever get a chance to look into it. Some will say (actually KJVonlyists are more likely to say) Textual Criticism is not nesscary, though I would argue differently for 2 reasons. 1) We do not have the original drafts of scripture and 2) variants occur within all the Manuscripts, none are the same. So we need to determine what the originals said. I encourage you not to by into the Tradition that the KJV is the only bible one should use.

EXCELLENT post!!

The KJV is the the best one. It was translated from by men of God. These other bibles take the KJV and change the meaning by trying to make it easier to understand. I am the Lord thy God i change not! People need to stop trying to write new verison of the bible

I'm afraid this only confuses the issue. That is a fair perspective, but I don't believe it is the kind of advice particularly helpful to new believers.

There just making Money off of The bible and God. Why do we need a new book by some Pastor who just because he has thousands that attend his church thinks he is smarter than God and is writing down Books to try to teach us how to have a closer relationship with God. Why do we need one of those books when we have Gods word which is free.

That is another issue entirely. There is only one translation that fits that description...that in and of itself might make a good description, but I don't think it is particularly helpful in this case.

Thank you so much for your help with this.....I wonder, do you do any tutoring in Greek??? Ha!Ha!Ha! I think between the diapers, laundry, doc appts, cooking, cleaning, taking care of 3 small boys and a large boy (hubby) I might be able to fit in a tutoring session ...lol So, much to learn and so little time to do it in . Once, again thanks!

I wish I had a handle on Greek myself! I would be happy to pray for you though. Hang in there and God bless you!!

Your brother in Christ,

Stephen

 

[chick4christ]

i am a KJV reader only!..i don't believe in reading the NIV! it leaves out many different verses and it teaches people wrong!..so many people are straying away and reading them and they need to come back and realize there wrong and that the KJV is the true version of the bible!..

God Bless!.

 

[aReformedPatriot]

God will perserve his Word! He said that the winds and the fashions of this world may change but that he will never change and his word is unchangeable. The KJV is the the best one. It was translated from by men of God. These other bibles take the KJV and change the meaning by trying to make it easier to understand. I am the Lord thy God i change not! People need to stop trying to write new verison of the bible... they are also trying to write all these new books that teach how to become saved and how to get a closer relationship with God. There just making Money off of The bible and God. Why do we need a new book by some Pastor who just because he has thousands that attend his church thinks he is smarter than God and is writing down Books to try to teach us how to have a closer relationship with God. Why do we need one of those books when we have Gods word which is free. If the KJV aint broke dont fix it. It takes the spirit to understand Gods word. We have tons and tons of book that preachers and pastor and bishops are writing to help us with this or that .... and they charge you a butt Load of money. When you can have What God wrote for you. So theres what God wrote and what man wrote. God created Man. If they want to write the KJV word for word and just call it a diffrent name then fine i dont know why they would do that but still it would be Gods word. Just my opion on the KJV vs NIV. Thanks for reading.

It should interest you to consider reading the preface to the 1611. In it the translators comment on the benefits of other translations and the like. They did not consider themselves inspired. The 1611 underwent numerous revisions over the years and today's KJV is not the original. So which one do you use? How do you know the KJV authors were inspired of God? is that in the bible or did someone tell you that since you were little?

To say "these bibles change the meaning" is nothing but false propaganda spewed by the likes of Peter Ruckman and Gail Riplinger. If you sit down and look at the material you will see they do not. Perhaps you can give an example?

Amen!! i completley agree, all of these books are written about the bible and about God, its like feeding babies junk food and withholding true spiritual nutrition from the mouths of babes. Get some spiritual vitimans and read God's word!

The KJV is not copyright free. Technically it is stolen. The KJV has whats called the Cum Privilegio which is the copyright of the english crown, not to mention no one but the royal printer could print it for about 100 years. In England today the KJV is copyrighted. The KJV is free argument is one of the weakest arguments of them all and is nothing but propaganda that appeals to the emotions. In my opinion anyways.