Killing

[ebia]

So when God killed people himself, or commanded humans to kill other humans, that's counter to his intentions?

I don't think he did.

 

[Verv]

Over half the people are not sure whether killing in war is a sin or not or believe it is a sin.

I think you guys should live in a nation without a military and get overrun by the Mongol horde, then tell me what you think about the military and how it relates to self-defense.

 

[MinorityofOne]

Killing for any reason is ethically wrong ('sinful'). Nevertheless, it is justifiable (if not 'morally right') in some situations, such as in war and in self-defense (although usually you don't have to kill to defend yourself).

 

[corvus_corax]

Thou shalt not kill, unless you feel it is appropriate.

Thou shalt not murder* your own** is the more traditional (and accurate) way of stating it.

*killing against "the rules"
** "Your own", of course, varies depending on region and historical period, and fluctuates sometimes wildly

 

[Nooj]

Over half the people are not sure whether killing in war is a sin or not or believe it is a sin.

I think you guys should live in a nation without a military and get overrun by the Mongol horde, then tell me what you think about the military and how it relates to self-defense.

Um, you know the Mongol Empire existed about 700 years in the past...

I don't think he did.

So the Bible...is just fantasy? The Flood? Sodom and Gomorrah?

 

[ebia]

So the Bible...is just fantasy? The Flood? Sodom and Gomorrah?

The flood is a myth - a story set in the ancient past written to tell a truth. IMO a story (no doubt with it's roots in one or more real floods) to explain why God cannot simply wipe out evil. It leads into the story of how God will actually deal with evil through Abraham and his decendents.

I won't say any more or this thread is liable to become a discussion of biblical literalism instead of addressing the OP.

 

[HighwayMan]

All of them depend on the situation, I can't imagine how any can have a yes or no answer...(except the self-defense one I guess)

 

[solarwave]

In the Bible it says 'do not murder', not 'do not kill', there is a difference.

I think killing in war is necessary, killing in self defence in ok if you have to and there is no other way, and I have never thought about capital punishment much because Im from the UK, and since things here work out well with it, I dont see what the point is.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Define 'sin'.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I put:

Not sure on war
Self-defense NOT a sin
Death penalty IS a sin

 

[Axioma]

Killing during war: it depends. To quote the great Joe Louis, during WWII, "We will win, because God is on our side". That would really motivate me, especially against the Axis of Evil. However, someone you have disarmed should be taken as a prisoner and/or interrogated, and killing him in such a situation WOULD be a sin, war or not.

Well, the Axis of Evil was being told the same thing. Except maybe the part about not killing prisoners.

After all,

It's very easy to say God is on your side.

EDIT: Also, I put down "Is a sin" under all categories because after some thinking on the subject, I realized that since in all of the above situations, you shouldn't kill if you have the chance not to, it therefore means that all of them ought to be accomplished with the minimum amount of killing, which would only be the case if killing was bad. Thus, killing is always a sin, and should always be avoided if at all possible.

 

[Tenka]

I don't get why it's OK for Christians to kill in self defense, after all, how many attest that even under pain of death they cannot for example forsake the holy spirit ...or something like that.

 

[ranmaonehalf]

There is no sin.
However if I were to say what I thought was wrong.

Killing for "purposes" IS wrong.
I think killing in self defense (or defense of others) is ok. (in general)
Killing in war works if it follows under self defense (or defense of others)
Killing as punishment on rare cases and thats only for murder. (in general)

 

[tanzanos]

WAR in itself is a sin. All wars are conducted for "Gain"; be it profit, influence, raw materials, wealth, etc.

One must differentiate the mutually exclusives contained in all religions. An example being:

Turn the other cheek, He who be without sin shall cast the first stone are diametrically opposed to the general morals of the OT where children should be put to death for disobedience, and the death penalty being the norm for sinners.

Money and War; are an anathema to the morals preached by the Man Jesus. It is us humans that have warped and turned morals to suit our needs and or aims throughout history.

I wonder if Jesus were alive today; Would he be treated with respect? Would he be condemned by the politics of commerce?

I wonder!

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

I voted for killing in defense of self or others is not a sin.

I would think this also applies to wars at hand. I may be bias about this though, due to my brother being stationed over in Iraq. My brother himself is having a VERY difficult time with dealing with kills he has over in Iraq, especially one he deems unnecessary.

If I may give an example:
He told me this past week, within a month of being over in Iraq he was ordered to blow up a vehicle which would not back down. They gave the men 5 warnings to stand down, which failed to even slow them up. They were coming up on my brother and his "crew" (for a lack of a better term) at full speed. His final orders were to "light them up", which he did.

Upon investigating the vehicle which was blown up, they found no weapons or bombs. He told me they died for nothing and he is to blame for their deaths. I tried to explain to him, it could of been a totally different scenario, and it could of been them blown up.

My baby brother who is only 21 now carries the guilt of killing others whom he feels shouldn't of died. He also feels he is no longer a good person, which truly breaks my heart for not only him, but all men serving during times of war!

So I believe this makes me a little bias. He was doing what he was ordered to do. In the Bible I know there was a lot of wars and killing. Does it make it right? I have no clue. But I believe there is a passage that states "protect your land'. Does this mean other people's land as well if you aren't on your own soil?

I could also be wrong about this quote, PLEASE by all means correct me if I am wrong.

God Bless
Melissa

 

[tanzanos]

I voted for killing in defense of self or others is not a sin.

I would think this also applies to wars at hand. I may be bias about this though, due to my brother being stationed over in Iraq. My brother himself is having a VERY difficult time with dealing with kills he has over in Iraq, especially one he deems unnecessary.

If I may give an example:
He told me this past week, within a month of being over in Iraq he was ordered to blow up a vehicle which would not back down. They gave the men 5 warnings to stand down, which failed to even slow them up. They were coming up on my brother and his "crew" (for a lack of a better term) at full speed. His final orders were to "light them up", which he did.

Upon investigating the vehicle which was blown up, they found no weapons or bombs. He told me they died for nothing and he is to blame for their deaths. I tried to explain to him, it could of been a totally different scenario, and it could of been them blown up.

My baby brother who is only 21 now carries the guilt of killing others whom he feels shouldn't of died. He also feels he is no longer a good person, which truly breaks my heart for not only him, but all men serving during times of war!

So I believe this makes me a little bias. He was doing what he was ordered to do. In the Bible I know there was a lot of wars and killing. Does it make it right? I have no clue. But I believe there is a passage that states "protect your land'. Does this mean other people's land as well if you aren't on your own soil?

I could also be wrong about this quote, PLEASE by all means correct me if I am wrong.

God Bless
Melissa

One's conscious is a good indication of what one has done whether it was right or wrong. Had there not been a war then your brother would not have to kill. Can one really justify the war in Iraq?

 

[GuidanceNeeded]

One's conscious is a good indication of what one has done whether it was right or wrong. Had there not been a war then your brother would not have to kill. Can one really justify the war in Iraq?

There is no justification for the war in Iraq. I have always said it was one man trying to finish what his father started and will always believe that.

It will never happen, but the US needs to keep their noses out of where it doesn't belong.

As far as our soldiers go, the kills I know weigh heavy on them. Whose hands does the blood of those lives lost fall on? These soldiers are being ordered to kill. They don't have the power or authority to decline orders.

I only pray I can in time convince my brother to ask for forgiveness and he will be forgiven. But until he is brought home for good, I don't believe I will be able to convince him. When you ask for forgiveness you are not to go out and re-commit the sin, right?

God Bless

 

[quatona]

always a sin, but sometimes there are greater sins that occur from failing to kill.

Spoken like a true relativist.

 

[quatona]

See poll.

I don´t know that there´s "sin".
Killing (violence in general, that is) as a response is always a sign of failure, in my book.

 

[tanzanos]

There is no justification for the war in Iraq. I have always said it was one man trying to finish what his father started and will always believe that.

It will never happen, but the US needs to keep their noses out of where it doesn't belong.

As far as our soldiers go, the kills I know weigh heavy on them. Whose hands does the blood of those lives lost fall on? These soldiers are being ordered to kill. They don't have the power or authority to decline orders.

I only pray I can in time convince my brother to ask for forgiveness and he will be forgiven. But until he is brought home for good, I don't believe I will be able to convince him. When you ask for forgiveness you are not to go out and re-commit the sin, right?

God Bless

How very true! The first casualty of war is the truth then it is innocence. If humans can calculate impossibly difficult scientific calculations and land probes on other planets surely we can sit on a table and conduct diplomacy in a civilised way. We demand from our children to sort out their problems with others without resorting to violence yet we give them the opposite example!