Kid's Corporal Punishment - a Risk to Mental Health

[o_mlly]

Of course there is a difference. It is a difference of degree. But both are assault. (Magical thinking again. Hitting doesn't count when it's your child.)

Good parental control does not depend on physical violence. The example above, repeated several times, is that of a toddler running on to the road. This is an example of bad parenting in two ways. First, the child was not properly supervised; second, the child was punished (assaulted) for the parent's carelessness.

Far better not to allow it to happen. Toddlers should not be loose beside a road. They should be held by the hand or harnessed.

If you have more toddlers than hands then duct tape is your friend.

 

[Whyayeman]

View attachment 340084
If you have more toddlers than hands then duct tape is your friend.

And contraception!

 

[Jimmy It]

Do you have children?

Raised 10, Fostered others, and had students from other countries stay for extended periods.

 

[Larniavc]

In fact if we really followed the data then we should be finding that traditional parenting is the optimum way to bring up kids across a number of areas.

Why? That sounds like putting the cart before the horse. Why should ‘traditional’ be assumed to be best? Which culture’s traditions are you referring to?

Sounds like you are making an a priori assumption about the efficacy of corporal punishment.

 

[Larniavc]

This will hurt me more than you but I love you too much not to.

Did you mean to phrase it that way? That is what perpetrators of domestic violence say.

 

[o_mlly]

Did you mean to phrase it that way? That is what perpetrators of domestic violence say.

Yes, the post is phrased correctly. There is a difference between the use of force in disciplining immature children and the use of violence. Abuse is often unpredictable and irrational, while discipline is consistent and reasonable.

 

[Whyayeman]

There is a difference between the use of force in disciplining immature children and the use of violence.

I asked long ago about what the difference is. Variations on the same assertion litter this thread, but nobody has tried to explain.

Here is your chance.

 

[Jimmy It]

Yes, the post is phrased correctly. There is a difference between the use of force in disciplining immature children and the use of violence. Abuse is often unpredictable and irrational, while discipline is consistent and reasonable.

I believe you expressed it just fine. Some here love the sound of their own voice so much they 'Strain at gnats and swallow camels.'
They persist in 'kicking against the pricks.'
'Shake the dust off your' Adidas and let them go or it becomes an never ending loop.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I asked long ago about what the difference is. Variations on the same assertion litter this thread, but nobody has tried to explain.

Here is your chance.

The distinction is not measured by force applied but by attitude.

Wholesome discipline is considered abuse by those who reject the concept of righteous anger.

Legislating against righteous anger is undermining society.

 

[o_mlly]

I asked long ago about what the difference is. Variations on the same assertion litter this thread, but nobody has tried to explain.

Here is your chance.

Really? Let me give you a second chance: read (re-read?) the post and get back to me with the parts you don't understand.

 

[Desk trauma]

The distinction is not measured by force applied but by attitude.

Wholesome discipline is considered abuse by those who reject the concept of righteous anger.

Legislating against righteous anger is undermining society.

I know, how are we to keep women folk in line if we are thrown in jail every time we correct them?

 

[Carl Emerson]

I know, how are we to keep women folk in line if we are thrown in jail every time we correct them?

You dont 'know' if you make a response like that...

 

[Desk trauma]

You dont 'know' if you make a response like that...

Oh? Has New Zealand protected that right?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Oh? Has New Zealand protected that right?

What 'right' are you referring to ?

 

[Desk trauma]

What 'right' are you referring to ?

Why the right to physical discipline women folk in righteous anger and not have that right legislated against as abuse of course. What were you thinking of?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Why the right to physical discipline women folk in righteous anger and not have that right legislated against as abuse of course. What were you thinking of?

We are not under Sharia Law.

 

[Lost Witness]

system of rewards and privileges to encourage good behaviour

That's more likely to create a sense of entitlement.
That model spoils


incentives for people that are incarcerated isn't the same.
They are already being punished.
That program is meant to rehabilitate them
Into productive members of society and to encourage them to turn away from easy avenues of living.
I.e theft, drug dealing and the like.
Terrible comparison.

 

[timothyu]

Contemporary research shows the opposite.

Just depends on who controls the narrative

 

[Paidiske]

Has it really developed. I know we have more knowledge, data but that doesn't stop ideology getting in the way.

Yes. Yes, it has. Even in the last ten years our understanding of trauma has deepened unbelievably.

In fact if we really followed the data then we should be finding that traditional parenting is the optimum way to bring up kids across a number of areas.

Well, first up, there's no such thing as one mode of "traditional parenting," so I think that assertion falls apart when we examine the first underlying premise.

Put it this way kids and adolescents are more unhappy, more disturbed, more suicidal, more badly behaved, more neurotic, more narcissistic than ever.

Evidence for each of these claims, please. Because just looking at suicide, it depends where in the world you are, but overall I'm seeing the most recent data claiming a modest recent drop in youth suicide rates.

So what exactly are the New discoveries doing exactly because they are not helping kids to become better people but their actually getting worse.

The new discoveries are probably more relevant to helping adults become better parents, than helping kids become better people (although I'll posit that not having PTSD from childhood abuse would be objectively "better" than the alternative).

If the State is indoctrinating children with one ideological belief about morality relating to child behaviour and a family or families have a different belief then this is actually creating a conflict in the child. Its actually undermining the parents right to bring up their child in the way they see fit.

Well, not that I'd agree that the state is indoctrinating children, but of course part of growing up is realising that society is bigger than your family bubble, that other people have other ideas, beliefs, and ways of life, and learning the maturity to behave appropriately in a pluralistic society. Denying children that "conflict" would actually be to fail to equip them to take their place in adult society.

But it still has nothing to do with abuse or corporal punishment.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Evidence for each of these claims, please. Because just looking at suicide, it depends where in the world you are, but overall I'm seeing the most recent data claiming a modest recent drop in youth suicide rates.

The rate of serious non-fatal injuries from intentional self-harm was 6.4 injuries per 100,000 people in 2020. This rate has been trending upwards since 2015, when it was 4.1 injuries per 100,000 people.

Serious injury outcome indicators: 2000–2020 | Stats NZ

The latest 2020 provisional data showed an age-standardised rate of 226.8 injuries per 100,000 people for all serious non-fatal injuries.

www.stats.govt.nz

UNICEF Report​

Released 15 June 2017

• New Zealand has the highest rate of teen suicide in the OECD
• New Zealand has the 6th highest teen pregnancy rate in the OECD
• New Zealand has the 7th highest rate of child homicide in the OECD.

The Homicide Report​

Released 13 May 2019

• Every 8th homicide victim in New Zealand from 2004 to 31 March 2019 was a child
• More than two thirds of the victims were aged 2 or under
• Of the cases where the killer's relationship to the victim was known, 27% were mothers, 24% were fathers, and 17% were de facto partners.